Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On Friday 21 June 2013 12:53:31 Felix Miata wrote: > I use many systems for testing various software. None use more than one > display at once. I use KDE 99%+, Gnome 0%, and others less than 1%. Quite > often my testing requires specific configuration be maintained across > various distros and/or versions and/or hardware. Doing this is typically > facilitated via /etc/X11/xorg.con* far more readily than via xrandr, the > latter of which often cannot be used due to lack of KMS support for a > non-Intel, non-AMD, non-NVidia gfxchip. > > In the process of trying to define a problem with Nouveau, DVI-I output and > CRT, I just spent the better part of two days swapping gfxcards in different > systems, booting different distros, and restarting X with various config > options or not, trying to figure out why a two month old Fedora 19's KDE > behaves the same as other distros while a newer one does not. Finally @ > 2013-06-20 21:03 (GMT-0700) on the Fedora test mailing list, the answer was > provided. KScreen (reported by yum.log as 0.0.92-1.fc19) went into Fedora > 19's 4.10.4 sometime in the past two months, while openSUSE 13.1 won't have > it until it acquires 4.11. 'rpm -e --nodeps kscreen' solved the problem for > the present. > > The question is, on systems that for whatever reason do have any of > /etc/X11/xorg.con*, is $SUBJECT necessary? Yes > If yes generally: > > A-should it do so even on initial KDE (Plasma?) startup (aka empty ~/.kde/) > by any given user? Yes, Xorg gets it wrong most of the times when having more than one screen. > B-what should it do on any startup directly subsequent to a global X > configuration change? We have to assume that all configuration in Xorg are wrong (when it comes to things that reaches the user like Fonts, dpi and the like). Certainly your case is one of those that have not been taken into consideration while developing KScreen, reason being that KScreen is focused on those users that are not able to write their own Xorg.conf files. Said that, we do want to cover all cases so let's see what we can do to improve your situation. One solution would be disable kscreen manually in those systems, after all it is a manual configuration what is causing your problems. Will that work for you? For KSCreen 1.1, we are considering doing the following to improve the situation in virtual machines that could apply in your case as well: -On first boot if there is only one screen, do nothing since Xorg/Drivers generally get this right. Cheers. ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On 2013-06-21 19:30 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: Felix Miata wrote: ...testing various software. None use more than one display at once... Underscore. The question is, on systems that for whatever reason do have any of /etc/X11/xorg.con*, is $SUBJECT necessary? Yes On single display systems and initial start, really? Most non-ancient systems do not have any /etc/X11/xorg.con*. Those that do are usually doing so for a reason. If yes generally: A-should it do so even on initial KDE (Plasma?) startup (aka empty ~/.kde/) by any given user? Yes, Xorg gets it wrong most of the times when having more than one screen. This thread was intended to focus on single display configurations. B-what should it do on any startup directly subsequent to a global X configuration change? We have to assume that all configuration in Xorg are wrong (when it comes to things that reaches the user like Fonts, dpi and the like). WRT Xorg automagic, I agree with the strategy. WRT global overrides that /etc/X11/xorg.con* contain, I don't agree. It seems to me it should only be applied via a KScreen non-default user config option to disregard /etc/X11/xorg.con* either entirely, or maybe though a submenu of specific categories. Certainly your case is one of those that have not been taken into consideration while developing KScreen, reason being that KScreen is focused on those users that are not able to write their own Xorg.conf files. What about users relying on proprietary NVidia drivers, which seem dependent on /etc/X11/xorg.con*? (I'm not among them. Maybe KScreen is a replacement for that dependence?) Said that, we do want to cover all cases so let's see what we can do to improve your situation. :-) One solution would be disable kscreen manually in those systems, after all it is a manual configuration what is causing your problems. Will that work for you? Sounds like it. A new option in kdmrc? Something special in ~/.config/ or ~/.kde/? For KSCreen 1.1, we are considering doing the following to improve the situation in virtual machines that could apply in your case as well: -On first boot if there is only one screen, do nothing since Xorg/Drivers generally get this right. This too sounds good, for appropriate definition of "first boot". -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On Friday 21 June 2013 14:32:22 Felix Miata wrote: > What about users relying on proprietary NVidia drivers, which seem dependent > on /etc/X11/xorg.con*? (I'm not among them. Maybe KScreen is a replacement > for that dependence?) They are not dependent on that as far as we know. > > One solution would be disable kscreen manually in those systems, after all > > it is a manual configuration what is causing your problems. Will that > > work for you? > > Sounds like it. A new option in kdmrc? Something special in ~/.config/ or > ~/.kde/? > > > For KSCreen 1.1, we are considering doing the following to improve the > > situation in virtual machines that could apply in your case as well: > > > > -On first boot if there is only one screen, do nothing since Xorg/Drivers > > generally get this right. > > This too sounds good, for appropriate definition of "first boot". Oks, will try to figure this out for 1.1, we have another related bug so it seems that this is something we really need to get fixed. Cheerz ! ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On 2013-07-01 12:17 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: On Friday 21 June 2013 14:32:22 Felix Miata wrote: > One solution would be disable kscreen manually in those systems, after all > it is a manual configuration what is causing your problems. Will that > work for you? Sounds like it. A new option in kdmrc? Something special in ~/.config/ or ~/.kde/? > For KSCreen 1.1, we are considering doing the following to improve the > situation in virtual machines that could apply in your case as well: > -On first boot if there is only one screen, do nothing since Xorg/Drivers > generally get this right. This too sounds good, for appropriate definition of "first boot". Oks, will try to figure this out for 1.1, we have another related bug so it seems that this is something we really need to get fixed. :-) What bug #? Does a new bug need to be filed for it to happen? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On Monday 01 July 2013 13:36:06 Felix Miata wrote: > What bug #? Does a new bug need to be filed for it to happen? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 No need to add a new bug. ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On 2013-07-04 16:43 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: Felix Miata wrote: What bug #? Does a new bug need to be filed for it to happen? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 No need to add a new bug. Trying to use Fedora 19's 4.10.5 with kscreen 1.0.1, /etc/kde/share/config/kdedrc contains: [Module-kscreen] autoload=false and not only is xorg.conf nevertheless overridden, but there seems to be no UI to get access to any display settings: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fedora/kscreen10-kdm4105-f19-01.png .xsession-errors is empty. Xorg.0.log: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/xorg0log-f19-big41.txt How is one supposed to manually configure a display currently? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On Saturday 03 August 2013 17:16:59 Felix Miata wrote: > On 2013-07-04 16:43 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: > > Felix Miata wrote: > >> What bug #? Does a new bug need to be filed for it to happen? > > > > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 > > > > No need to add a new bug. > > Trying to use Fedora 19's 4.10.5 with kscreen 1.0.1, > /etc/kde/share/config/kdedrc contains: > > [Module-kscreen] > autoload=false > > and not only is xorg.conf nevertheless overridden, but there seems to be no > UI to get access to any display settings: > http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fedora/kscreen10-kdm4105-f19-01.png > > .xsession-errors is empty. Xorg.0.log: > http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/xorg0log-f19-big41.txt > > How is one supposed to manually configure a display currently? In that screenshot you can see 3 little buttons within the square that represents your screen. The "Do not overwrite Xorg configuration when using only 1 screen" will be done in 1.1, either that or a blacklist of drivers. Cheers!. ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On 2013-08-05 12:01 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-07-04 16:43 (GMT+0200) Àlex Fiestas composed: > Felix Miata wrote: >> What bug #? Does a new bug need to be filed for it to happen? > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 > No need to add a new bug. Trying to use Fedora 19's 4.10.5 with kscreen 1.0.1, /etc/kde/share/config/kdedrc contains: [Module-kscreen] autoload=false What do you think šumski telling me or expecting this to accomplish in http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2013-07/msg00086.html ? Not being a programmer http://api.kde.org/4.0-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kded/html/ doesn't really tell me what kded is about. and not only is xorg.conf nevertheless overridden, but there seems to be no UI to get access to any display settings: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Fedora/kscreen10-kdm4105-f19-01.png .xsession-errors is empty. Xorg.0.log: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/xorg0log-f19-big41.txt How is one supposed to manually configure a display currently? In that screenshot you can see 3 little buttons within the square that represents your screen. "Little" for sure. Sitting tiny at the bottom of a square overwhelmed by gray whitespace, sitting in a vast larger sea of white whitespace, it's anything but intuitive what might be possible from that screen. It sure could use some A11Y/U7Y love, and some descriptive text that doesn't require hovering and squinting to see. On a related note, "... configure monitors and displays"? Do people call LCDs monitors? Is there a more than an immaterial semantic difference between a monitor and a display? Wouldn't just "display(s)", or "screens", or "display screens" be better? The "Do not overwrite Xorg configuration when using only 1 screen" will be done in 1.1, either that or a blacklist of drivers. I remember that. I also remember https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929#c13 (and today is the 5th ;-) ). Should I just sit on this a week and find 1.1 in an upcoming round of F19 updates or the next Factory kscreen build? Do you have an amended ETA on 1.1? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On 2013-08-05 12:42 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed: Do you have an amended ETA on 1.1? The reason I ask is that according to https://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap openSUSE 13.1 may be stuck with 1.0 if 1.1 doesn't happen before Friday. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
Re: [Kde-hardware-devel] kscreen overrides xorg.con*
On Monday 05 August 2013 13:04:46 Felix Miata wrote: > On 2013-08-05 12:42 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed: > > Do you have an amended ETA on 1.1? > > The reason I ask is that according to https://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap > openSUSE 13.1 may be stuck with 1.0 if 1.1 doesn't happen before Friday. Well it is distributions job to pick what software they want to distribute, the moment we ship 1.1 the old version won't have support from us, so it is up to them to upgrade or not. As you can see we have had some delays on 1.1, but it is still WIP. ___ Kde-hardware-devel mailing list Kde-hardware-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-hardware-devel
