KR> T-88 Question

[phillip matheson]

Will I need to sand off the excess glue so that I have a clean wood surface 
to
bond to, or can I just sand things level and bond to the cured T-88?
--

I would bond as you have been doing, then, when clamped to way you want it, 
I would use a putty knife or scraper and clean the excess T88 off, then you 
will not have to sand the area next time.

Excess T88 is only weight NOT strength, most of the time.



Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 37
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
- Original Message - 
From: "sean duggan" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: KR> T-88 Question


Here is a quick question. Does excess T-88 have to be removed from a wood
surface before another piece of wood can be bonded to that surface?


In my situation, excess glue has pooled on and around the outside of some of 
my
fuselage truss joints. The plywood and partial longerons that will be glued 
to
the fuselage trusses in the upcoming steps will need a good structural bond.
Will I need to sand off the excess glue so that I have a clean wood surface 
to
bond to, or can I just sand things level and bond to the cured T-88?

Regards,

Sean Duggan
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KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[phillip matheson]

Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more than
once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the fact.
---

Strange.

I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.

I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 40 
kts.

Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 37
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/

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KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

At 03:37 AM 4/6/2011, you wrote:

>Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more than
>once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the fact.
>---
>Strange.
>I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.
>I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 40
>kts.
>Phil Matheson
+++

I suspect the wing is not really "stalled" at that point and that 
your ASI is probably off by 10 to 15 knots at that AOA.  You're 
simple descending to the runway from the flair at minimum airspeed. 
Same goes with a tail dragger touching tail first.  An interesting 
test would be to measure the angle of the firewall in the three point 
position (tri-gear ).  Then lower the tail to the ground and measure 
the firewall angle again.  If the change is less then approx 14 
degrees (plus your wing set AOA, the wing is not stalled with the 
tail touching.  My tail dragger KR, with a 24 inch stretch over a 
standard KR, 30 inch Diehl gear, wing set at 3.5 degrees, has the 
wing at 12 degees in the 3 point attitude.  Again, just one man's opinion.

Larry Flesner

KR> RE: Firewall attachment

[stef...@kpnmail.nl]

Thanks,
We will build the fwd deck removable so that should not a problem. But what is 
the differents between the 2 and the -2S. We are building a -2 with the -S tail 
and stab. So wat need I to do in the front of the Fusselage. Prob some pics 
will help.
Thanks 

Stef den Boer








Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2





Van: krnet-bounces+stefkr2=kpnmail...@mylist.net namens velocityo...@yahoo.com
Verzonden: di 5-4-2011 16:24
Aan: KRnet
Onderwerp: Re: KR> RE: Firewall attachment



Sorry guys it sent before I was ready. Anyway the header tank removes allowing 
complete access to the back of the panel, brakes, etc.
I can send pics when I get off work in three weeks if you are interested.
Victor Taylor

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2011, at 8:30 AM, "Teate, Stephen"  
wrote:

> Hello Stef,
>
> If you are building a 2S then the firewall has already been reinforced for a 
> 100 HP engine. Actually the framing behind the firewall is what was changed. 
> The top cross beams and shelf were all increased and I believe the gussets 
> are also larger if I remember correctly. I will make one suggestion to you as 
> I am in the engine installation phase myself. First install the firewall with 
> temporary screws as you will probably want it on and off several times before 
> you are finished. I cut a small access door through my firewall, similar to a 
> lot of Pipers, for inspection and access to components mounted in this area 
> because I swore I would never "instrument panel dive" again! I am also 
> installing all components without the SS firewall in place so that when 
> everything is up and running then I will only cut the holes I need. As I am 
> liquid cooled there is a certain amount or R&D involved and sometimes you end 
> up putting holes in the firewall that will interfere with something else.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Teate
> Paradise, Texas
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
> stef...@kpnmail.nl
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 7:31 AM
> To: kr net
> Subject: KR> Firewall attachment
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Over here in the Netherlands we are bussy with the fwd deck, canopy frame and 
> the aft deck. If I am looking at the next stage we have to think about the 
> fire wall. We have made the decision to go for an 100 HP engine. Did any of 
> you make the connection from the firewall to the fuselage stronger ? How did 
> you do it? 
>
> Thanks Stef
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Stef and Ted are building the KR-2S see   
> http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2
>
>
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> The information in this email is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient,
> you should delete this message.  Access to this email by
> anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or action taken or omitted in reliance on it
> is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> **
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>
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KR> kr2-s cg specifications

[warrong2]

  Sorry guys with this dumb question. I have been trying to locate my builders 
manual with the cg location specs for my KR2-S. Over the 17 years it seems the 
little creatures around here in south florida enjoyed that information for 
breakfast. Since I am putting in a corvair now after having the soob before I 
need the specs again. I searched the archives but never found it. What is the 
location and spread of the cg from what starting point ?  Thanks Warron Gray



"Never ever give up, till they shut the lid"
pics at http://s1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/warronflys/

KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Full stall requires ~13 Degrees Angle of Attack. What is your AOA
sitting on the ground ? If it is less than~13 Degrees, Then full stall 
is NOT
possible. As Larry says" you are at the SLOWEST A/S possible
for landing ", Virg

On 4/6/2011 4:37 AM, phillip matheson wrote:
> Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more than
> once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the fact.
> ---
>
> Strange.
>
> I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.
>
> I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 40
> kts.
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch 37
> http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
>
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> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
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>

KR> RE: Firewall attachment

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

I think that the 2S had 4" added  in front of the forward spar as well, 
Virg


On 4/6/2011 8:57 AM, stef...@kpnmail.nl wrote:
> Thanks,
> We will build the fwd deck removable so that should not a problem. But what 
> is the differents between the 2 and the -2S. We are building a -2 with the -S 
> tail and stab. So wat need I to do in the front of the Fusselage. Prob some 
> pics will help.
> Thanks
>
> Stef den Boer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

KR> Need flex plate bolts

[Jose Fuentes]

  Need 4 vw type 4 flex plate bolts. Been a nightmare to find. Anyone have
any laying around???

Joe

Sent from my Windows Phone

KR> wing stall angle

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

O.K. students, the lesson for today is "stall 
angle of an aircraft wing".  There will be a test to follow. :-)

I'm guessing our KR is "typical of many airfoils" 
as mentioned in the first paragraph.

Larry Flesner


 From Wikipedia:

The airspeed at which the aircraft stalls varies 
with the weight of the aircraft, the 
load 
factor, bank angle, the center of gravity of the 
aircraft and other factors. However the aircraft 
always stalls at the same critical angle of 
attack. The critical or stalling angle of attack 
is typically around 15° for many airfoils.

Also from Wikipedia:

A stall is a condition in 
aerodynamics 
and 
aviation 
where the 
angle 
of attack increases beyond a certain point such 
that the lift begins to decrease. The angle at 
which this occurs is called the 
critical 
angle of attack. This critical angle is dependent 
upon the 
profile 
of the wing, its 
planform, 
its 
aspect 
ratio, and other factors, but is typically in the 
range of 8 to 20 degrees relative to the incoming 
wind for most subsonic airfoils. The critical 
angle of attack is the angle of attack on the 
lift 
coefficient versus angle-of-attack curve at which 
the maximum lift coefficient occurs.

And from an FAA written test:


The angle of attack at which an airplane wing stalls will

ANSWER: remain the same regardless of gross weight.

A given airplane wing will always stall
at the same angle of attack regardless of airspeed, weight,
load factor, or density altitude. Each wing has a particular
angle of attack (the critical angle of attack) at which the
airflow separates from the upper surface of the wing and the
stall occurs.

KR> V Numbers

[Dave Dunwoodie]

Hello everyone;

In attempting to write a checklist for my KR2, I suddenly realized that 
I lack any valid "V" numbers for it.  If anyone could help, iot would be 
very much appreciated!!!

Along the same lines, I've noticed a wide range of pre-start procedures, 
and I'm wondering what seems to be working the best for everyone.  Some 
procedures call for gas off, pull 8-blades, engage starter, gas on, 
advance throttle, etc.  Others say nothing about any of this, simply 
suggesting to turn the gas on and start cranking.

The engine is a Revmaster 2100, no turbo, Revmaster carb., Warp Drive 
3-blade at 14 degrees.

The airplane is conventional gear, plans built, and a little bit on the 
heavy side!  It has nearly a full panel, including manifold pressure, 
etc., so any numbers would be very helpful.

I've managed to find three numbers - 183 on the airspeed is red, and 52 
on the airspeed is red.  Tach redline is 3500.  Given the total lack of 
any other numbers anywhere, I even doubt the validity of the numbers 
that I did manage to find.  I don't know where the 183 came from, and I 
suspect that the 52 number came from a sales brochure.  I have the same 
thoughts about the 3500 RPM.

As an FYI, I'm installing an iFly 700 into the panel, and the checklist 
(especially the performance data) can be pulled up at the touch of a finger.

Thanks,

Dave.

KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Randy Smith]

I am not an engineer but I always understood if there is not enough air across 
the wing it is stalled. so what does the angle have to do with no air across 
the wing? I know if you pull up and block the top of the wing it will stall. I 
have stalled the wing at 105 mph and the tail at 115 mph. For your information 
it was not on purpose and I do not suggest it. The wing stall did not do much I 
just let it fall off on one side and after the second spin I pulled it out. The 
tail stall scared the  out of my wife and I and she said not to do that 
ever again, Like I would.

--- On Wed, 4/6/11, Virgil N. Salisbury  wrote:


From: Virgil N. Salisbury 
Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.
To: "KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 12:29 PM


    Full stall requires ~13 Degrees Angle of Attack. What is your AOA
    sitting on the ground ? If it is less than~13 Degrees, Then full stall 
is NOT
    possible. As Larry says" you are at the SLOWEST A/S possible
    for landing ", Virg

    On 4/6/2011 4:37 AM, phillip matheson wrote:
> Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more than
> once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the fact.
> ---
>
> Strange.
>
> I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.
>
> I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 40
> kts.
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch 37
> http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
>
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>
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KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Mark]

The angle of attack is dependent on the 'relative wind' and has nothing to
do with the wing chord reference to speed, attitude of the aircraft/airframe
or anything else other than the relationship of the aerodynamic chord of the
wing relative to the "relative wind". There are a number of publications,
including FAA stuff, that explain the concepts (I bet Mark L can chime in
here too) :)

Mark W.
N952MW

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Randy Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:55 PM
To: virg...@bellsouth.net; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

I am not an engineer but I always understood if there is not enough air
across the wing it is stalled. so what does the angle have to do with no air
across the wing? I know if you pull up and block the top of the wing it will
stall. I have stalled the wing at 105 mph and the tail at 115 mph. For your
information it was not on purpose and I do not suggest it. The wing stall
did not do much I just let it fall off on one side and after the second spin
I pulled it out. The tail stall scared the  out of my wife and I and she
said not to do that ever again, Like I would.

--- On Wed, 4/6/11, Virgil N. Salisbury  wrote:


From: Virgil N. Salisbury 
Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.
To: "KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 12:29 PM


    Full stall requires ~13 Degrees Angle of Attack. What is your AOA
    sitting on the ground ? If it is less than~13 Degrees, Then full stall
is NOT
    possible. As Larry says" you are at the SLOWEST A/S possible
    for landing ", Virg

    On 4/6/2011 4:37 AM, phillip matheson wrote:
> Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more 
> than once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the
fact.
> ---
>
> Strange.
>
> I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.
>
> I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 
> 40 kts.
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch 37
> http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
>
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>
>
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>


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KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Matt Wash]

The definition of an aerodynamic stall is when the critical angle of attack
is exceeded. This was a big part of the private written exam. It's all about
the angles and the effect that has on the airfoil. This is why the
application of vortex generators make some aircraft (such as the 150)
incredibly difficult to stall. With the vortex generators to keep the
airflow from breaking up as quickly, there is not enough elevator authority
to exceed the new critical angle of attack.

This site explains the concept well:
http://www.flightsimbooks.com/flightsimhandbook/CHAPTER_02_16_Basic_Aerodynamics.php

This picture shows a hypothetical angle of attack vs critical angle of
attack: http://zone.ni.com/cms/images/devzone/tut/ncezuttg46490.jpg

" Angle of attack is the angle between the lifting body's reference line and
the oncoming flow. " More simply put, the angle between the relative wind
and the wing's reference line, which is shown in red in the picture I
included.

A stall at 115mph would be an 'accelerated stall', which occurs at a higher
speed than your typical stall at 1g. You must've pulled back pretty hard or
been very heavy. If you entered a spin, you were likely not coordinated.

In order to get a tailplane stall you must either have had tailplane icing
or a very aft CG condition. It's generally very difficult to impossible to
accomplish.

Regards,
~Matt

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Randy Smith  wrote:

> I am not an engineer but I always understood if there is not enough air
> across the wing it is stalled. so what does the angle have to do with no air
> across the wing? I know if you pull up and block the top of the wing it will
> stall. I have stalled the wing at 105 mph and the tail at 115 mph. For your
> information it was not on purpose and I do not suggest it. The wing stall
> did not do much I just let it fall off on one side and after the second spin
> I pulled it out. The tail stall scared the  out of my wife and I and she
> said not to do that ever again, Like I would.
>
> --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Virgil N. Salisbury  wrote:
>
>
> From: Virgil N. Salisbury 
> Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.
> To: "KRnet" 
> Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 12:29 PM
>
>
> Full stall requires ~13 Degrees Angle of Attack. What is your AOA
> sitting on the ground ? If it is less than~13 Degrees, Then full stall
> is NOT
> possible. As Larry says" you are at the SLOWEST A/S possible
> for landing ", Virg
>
> On 4/6/2011 4:37 AM, phillip matheson wrote:
> > Very true statement Larry. I have slammed my tail on the runway more than
> > once and the tie down ring on my tail bears the wear to attest to the
> fact.
> > ---
> >
> > Strange.
> >
> > I have 335 hours on my KR2 tricycle, and NEVER hit the tail.
> >
> > I can stall onto the runway, or drop the mains on the runway at 35 to 40
> > kts.
> >
> > Phil Matheson
> > SAAA Ch 37
> > http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
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KR> Radio

[PatS]

AS so many have said before, this is the best place to get information.  Thanks 
to all who responded.
IHS
PatS
Seminary, MS

KR> RE:Trigear and tailwheel full stall landings.

[Martin Pearce]

Its easy to measure the AoA on the ground . measure vertically up from
level ground (hardstanding is best) to the centre of the centre section LE
and to the centre of the centre section TE. Divide the difference by the
wing chord and that is the sine of your at rest AoA. For a tailwheeler its
pretty close to the touch down AoA (excepting landing gear spring
compression). One of mine is about 13 degrees, the other about 7.  ... both
tailwheelers! (if you drop a plumb line down to the floor from the LE and
the from the TE, and use that distance instead of the wing chord, the figure
you get is the tangent of the AoA . 

By the way, from that, if you know your stall speed, you can guess your
touchdown speed in a three pointer ... its stall speed x sqr root(stall
speed coefficient of lift / touch down Coefficient of lift) .. 
Cheers!
Martin

Martin Pearce
 - KR2 with Subaru EA81 + KR2 S with GMH Saturn
 - Both in my garage, neither registered or flying in Au ---yet!
rocketdri...@optusnet.com.au




-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of krnet-requ...@mylist.net
Sent: Thursday, 7 April 2011 11:32 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 353, Issue 97

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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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KR> V Numbers

[Dan Heath]

Take a look here.  There are several Flight Information Manuals available
that have that information.

For a Revmaster type carb, turn the fuel on, crack the carb and start
turning.  For an Ellison on a cold start, push the primer and crank.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-


In attempting to write a checklist for my KR2, I suddenly realized that 
I lack any valid "V" numbers for it.  If anyone could help, iot would be 
very much appreciated!!!

KR> kr2-s cg specifications

[Mark Langford]

Warron Gray asked:

>> Since I am putting in a corvair now after having the soob before I
need the specs again. I searched the archives but never found it. What is 
the
location and spread of the cg from what starting point ? <<

The KR2S plans call for the same CG span as the KR2, a total of 8" ranging 
from 8"-16" aft of the inboard wing leading edge, according to the plans. 
It's widely acknowleged that the aft two inches of that range are likely to 
be in the unstable range, so I'd consider the range to be 6" instead.  And I 
can attest to the fact that you don't want to fly with an aft CG...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website www.n56ml.com

KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

At 07:55 PM 4/6/2011, you wrote:
>The tail stall scared the  out of my wife and I and she said not 
>to do that ever again, Like I would.
>+


How did you identify the condition as a "tail stall"?  What maneuver 
did you perform to induce a "tail stall", and how did you exit the maneuver?

Seems like it would take considerable elevator deflection to create a 
"tail stall" and considerable elevator deflection at 115 mph would 
put one hell of a load on the wings.  How many lives did you use up 
on that flight???

Larry Flesner

KR> RE: Firewall attachment

[Mark Langford]

Stef den Boer wrote:

>>But what is the difference between the 2 and the -2S. We are building a -2 
>>with the -S tail and stab. So what need I to do in the front of the 
>>Fuselage. Prob some pics will help.<<

There is some reinforcement of the bracing for the firewall on the KR2S.  I 
feel sure someone with a well-documented web-site will volunteer to point 
you toward their photos of the KR2S setup.  I forget the exact details, but 
I believe that involves another 5/8" thick by 3.5" spruce member and a few 
other little details.  It will become apparent when you see photos of 
someone else's firewall/fuselage junction  from the backside.  One key to 
making that connection last is to build an engine mount that connects up to 
the corners of the firewall, rather than out in the middle

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website www.n56ml.com

KR> :Trigear and tailwheel full stall landings.

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

At 09:00 PM 4/6/2011, you wrote:
>By the way, from that, if you know your stall speed, you can guess your
>touchdown speed in a three pointer ... its stall speed x sqr root(stall
>speed coefficient of lift / touch down Coefficient of lift) ..
>Cheers!
>Martin
>+++


Getting a bit complicated don't you think for those still dealing 
with "critical angle of attack" and "airflow separation", to say nothing of
Bernoulli's law. :-) :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway.

[mbz...@comcast.net]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but that is the way I also understand the 
stall. Angle of attack is the angle of the chord relative to the wind, not a 
horizontal line. So if the plane is descending in still air, the angle of 
attack will be greater than the attitude of the wing chord. 

. 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:23:23 -0500 
From: "Mark"  
Subject: RE: KR> Re: Tri gear tail first on runway. 
To: "'KRnet'" ,  
Message-ID: 

 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 

The angle of attack is dependent on the 'relative wind' and has nothing to 
do with the wing chord reference to speed, attitude of the aircraft/airframe 
or anything else other than the relationship of the aerodynamic chord of the 
wing relative to the "relative wind". There are a number of publications, 
including FAA stuff, that explain the concepts (I bet Mark L can chime in 
here too) :) 

Mark W. 
N952MW