KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Mark Langford]

Not to be a naysayer or pile on, but Richard Mole was designing a new 
airplane in the UK with a carbon fiber spar, and had to build a 
full-scale spar and test apparatus, and bring it to LAA headquarters and 
demonstrate a live test, along with a pile of calculations that he said 
was several inches thick, which supported and proved his calculations 
and the test results matched.

So yes, carbon fiber spars will almost certainly require more work than 
you can imagine to get past Engineering.  The few pounds you will save 
in the effort will likely cost years and thousands of BP.  But some 
people enjoy the chase and the sense of accomplishment at pulling it 
off, so feel free to blaze a trail for us...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Mike]

Dan, the fundamental difference between our respective systems, as I'm sure
has been mentioned before, is that in the USA you carry the responsibilities
individually, for the approval and airworthiness of you're a/c whereas in
the UK, the responsibility for approval is carried by the LAA and continued
airworthiness is a partnership between us as builders/aircraft owners, our
LAA inspectors and the LAA HQ Engineering Dept. Hence, unless we get
individual approval for any mods (which do not come lighty) we do not have
the same freedom for experimentation. On the other side of the coin,
however, we do have a very worthwhile safety net of regulation and
oversight.

Regards
Mike Mold

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Heath via
KRnet
Sent: 02 March 2015 10:35
To: jamieduff1981 at btinternet.com; 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

So, I guess that if you were to build a "one-up", it would be as bad as
building a new certified aircraft here in the US.  Seems like a really good
way to encourage "experimentation".



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of JAMES DUFF
via KRnet
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 3:48 AM
To: Mike; rogelio.serrano at gmail.com; 'Rogelio M. Serrano Jr.'; 'KRnet';
'Flesner'
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



As Mike says.





If you're flying under UK law it needs to be built as per plans which is
what the design has been assessed against, unless it's a KR2S in which case
it's as per plans plus some mandatory modifications which the LAA will send
you drawings of.





It is possible to modify from the plans, but mods need to be approved via a
documentation package demonstrating by calculation their safety and
integrity. Structural mods will also require physical load testing.





Dudley Pattison of the Swindon Aircraft Timber Company was good, but I hear
he's trying to retire.





If built under UK law it needs to be built with Sitka Spruce and GL1 grade
birch ply. You can use GL2 ply for non-structural stuff, but I can't think
of anything non-structural on a plans-built KR2 off the top of my head.





I would most strongly suggest you heed Mike's advice and contact the LAA for
advice before proceeding any further.





Regards,





Jamie



Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From:"Mike via KRnet" <  krnet at 
list.krnet.org>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:Mon, 2 Mar, 2015 at 8:06

Subject:Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



It certainly will be an issue if you expect to build and fly your KR under
the UK Light Aircraft Association's Permit to Fly arrangements. I suggest
you look on the LAA website and find a local inspector to guide you through
the system.

 
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/inspectors/insp_home_page.html 



There are several UK builders who occasionally post here and might offer you
their advice.



Mike Mold



-Original Message-

From: KRnet [ 
mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio M.

Serrano Jr. via KRnet

Sent: 02 March 2015 00:22

To: Flesner; KRnet

Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?  The plans call 

> for spruce and ply only.

> 

> Larry Flesner



I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.



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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Peter Drake]

Hi Rogelio

I am based in Herefordshire and am building a much modified KR2s 
(www.peterskr2s.co.uk)
DO NOT MAKE MODIFICATIONS LIGHTLY AND WITHOUT APPROVAL FROM LAA ENGINEERING, 
you will encounter big hassles if you do and you will not get a permit to 
fly without.
I am speaking from personal experience!

Getting spruce in the UK is difficult. However I have found a source in 
Oxfordshire called Bygone Aviation near Witney. (Matt at bygoneaviation.com).

Give me a call on 01497 847340 if you want a chat.

Cheers

Peter Drake

-Original Message- 
From: Rogelio M. Serrano Jr. via KRnet
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 02 March 2015 00:02
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

Hi Guys,

I hope UK based builders can get in touch.

I live in the Isle of Man and I'm looking for spruce and okoume
plywood suppliers in the northwest of Britain.

I just ordered flat tow bid uni and triax carbon fiber fabric for my spars.

I hope to be building the fuse as soon as possible.

Thank you in advance.

___
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-
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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[JAMES DUFF]

As Mike says.


If you're flying under UK law it needs to be built as per plans which is what 
the design has been assessed against, unless it's a KR2S in which case it's as 
per plans plus some mandatory modifications which the LAA will send you 
drawings of.


It is possible to modify from the plans, but mods need to be approved via a 
documentation package demonstrating by calculation their safety and integrity. 
Structural mods will also require physical load testing.


Dudley Pattison of the Swindon Aircraft Timber Company was good, but I hear 
he's trying to retire.


If built under UK law it needs to be built with Sitka Spruce and GL1 grade 
birch ply. You can use GL2 ply for non-structural stuff, but I can't think of 
anything non-structural on a plans-built KR2 off the top of my head.


I would most strongly suggest you heed Mike's advice and contact the LAA for 
advice before proceeding any further.


Regards,


Jamie

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Mike via KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:Mon, 2 Mar, 2015 at 8:06
Subject:Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

It certainly will be an issue if you expect to build and fly your KR under
the UK Light Aircraft Association's Permit to Fly arrangements. I suggest
you look on the LAA website and find a local inspector to guide you through
the system.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/inspectors/insp_home_page.html 

There are several UK builders who occasionally post here and might offer you
their advice.

Mike Mold

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio M.
Serrano Jr. via KRnet
Sent: 02 March 2015 00:22
To: Flesner; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?? The plans call for
> spruce and ply only.
>
> Larry Flesner

I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.

___
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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Mike]

It certainly will be an issue if you expect to build and fly your KR under
the UK Light Aircraft Association's Permit to Fly arrangements. I suggest
you look on the LAA website and find a local inspector to guide you through
the system.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/inspectors/insp_home_page.html 

There are several UK builders who occasionally post here and might offer you
their advice.

Mike Mold

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio M.
Serrano Jr. via KRnet
Sent: 02 March 2015 00:22
To: Flesner; KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?  The plans call for
> spruce and ply only.
>
> Larry Flesner

I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.

___
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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Dan Heath]

So, I guess that if you were to build a "one-up", it would be as bad as
building a new certified aircraft here in the US.  Seems like a really good
way to encourage "experimentation".



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of JAMES DUFF
via KRnet
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 3:48 AM
To: Mike; rogelio.serrano at gmail.com; 'Rogelio M. Serrano Jr.'; 'KRnet';
'Flesner'
Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



As Mike says.





If you're flying under UK law it needs to be built as per plans which is
what the design has been assessed against, unless it's a KR2S in which case
it's as per plans plus some mandatory modifications which the LAA will send
you drawings of.





It is possible to modify from the plans, but mods need to be approved via a
documentation package demonstrating by calculation their safety and
integrity. Structural mods will also require physical load testing.





Dudley Pattison of the Swindon Aircraft Timber Company was good, but I hear
he's trying to retire.





If built under UK law it needs to be built with Sitka Spruce and GL1 grade
birch ply. You can use GL2 ply for non-structural stuff, but I can't think
of anything non-structural on a plans-built KR2 off the top of my head.





I would most strongly suggest you heed Mike's advice and contact the LAA for
advice before proceeding any further.





Regards,





Jamie



Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From:"Mike via KRnet" <  krnet at 
list.krnet.org>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:Mon, 2 Mar, 2015 at 8:06

Subject:Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



It certainly will be an issue if you expect to build and fly your KR under
the UK Light Aircraft Association's Permit to Fly arrangements. I suggest
you look on the LAA website and find a local inspector to guide you through
the system.

 
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/inspectors/insp_home_page.html 



There are several UK builders who occasionally post here and might offer you
their advice.



Mike Mold



-Original Message-

From: KRnet [ 
mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio M.

Serrano Jr. via KRnet

Sent: 02 March 2015 00:22

To: Flesner; KRnet

Subject: Re: KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?



> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?  The plans call 

> for spruce and ply only.

> 

> Larry Flesner



I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.



___

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KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Tinyauto at aol.com]

I am a member of the LAA out of the UK just because I have a lot of  
interest in British aircraft.  As I understand it, if you make  modifications 
to 
plans built aircraft in the UK, you have to get the ok from  the engineering 
dept within the LAA.  That spar mod might be an  issue.  

While mentioning the LAA...the monthly magazine is very good.  Right  on 
par with the EAA magazine and maybe better in some ways.  The only  thing I 
get little out of is the political/rules that is gone over every  month.  I 
don't care much for USA rules and I sure don't care about the  rules in the 
UK.  Give me the technical stuff and I am happy.  The  magazine is about $90 a 
year.  

Kevin Golden
Harrisonville, MO
Streak Shadow in progress (from the UK)
Hiperlight SNS 9 with Jabiru




In a message dated 3/1/2015 6:03:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,  kr
net at list.krnet.org writes:

Hi  Guys,

I hope UK based builders can get in touch.

I live in the  Isle of Man and I'm looking for spruce and okoume
plywood suppliers in  the northwest of Britain.

I just ordered flat tow bid uni and triax  carbon fiber fabric for my spars.

I hope to be building the fuse as  soon as possible.

Thank you in  advance.

___
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To  UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to  KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at  http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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options

KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Rogelio M. Serrano Jr.]

> How are you planning to use carbon fiber on the spars?  The plans call for
> spruce and ply only.
>
> Larry Flesner

I am deviating from the plans. I hope it will not be too much of an issue.

KR> UK aircraft grade lumber supplier?

[Rogelio M. Serrano Jr.]

Hi Guys,

I hope UK based builders can get in touch.

I live in the Isle of Man and I'm looking for spruce and okoume
plywood suppliers in the northwest of Britain.

I just ordered flat tow bid uni and triax carbon fiber fabric for my spars.

I hope to be building the fuse as soon as possible.

Thank you in advance.