KR> new airfoil modifications
Kayak Chris wrote: > Dumb question, can I assume this suggestion applies to the kr1 kr1.5 > etc (all kr variants) as well? Probably so. Few people build KR1's anymore (it's usually a KR2S that's narrowed a bit), so nobody's built a KR1 with the new airfoil, but it is interchangeable with the RAF48, but with more efficient performance. I shouldn't even have said "new KR2"having flown KR2S and the KR2 for hundreds of hours each, and the fact that building an S is almost exactly the same labor and cost as a KR2, I think you'd be crazy to build a new KR2 when the KR2S is so much better. See more on this kind of stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/kopinion.html ... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com
KR> WW Award
I have been following the Corvair ?authority? since 2003 and found this this morning. Looks good on him! see: http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/09-29-2016-homebuilders-major-achievement-award-presented-to-william-wynne?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTWpneE1XWTROV1l5TkRVMiIsInQiOiI4SGtEVHNUbzcxcGRDeEtybWJsQ1A2SHhWdWczcGZacDkrSzdQUVdDZ0pJbTZqdHhJMlhTM0Z3UGxWdVJUQnVNRDB5d1RvdHlBUm94bXEyQWZcL1kwXC8zYnp3YmsrZk9UdjlheExjN3gxQWJ3PSJ9 Gary ? Canada garyains?at?kwic.com
KR> new airfoil modifications
On 10/3/2016 5:58 AM, Mark Langford via KRnet wrote: > Kayak Chris wrote: > >> Dumb question, can I assume this suggestion applies to the kr1 kr1.5 >> etc (all kr variants) as well? > > Probably so. Few people build KR1's anymore (it's usually a KR2S > that's narrowed a bit), so nobody's built a KR1 with the new airfoil, > but it is interchangeable with the RAF48, but with more efficient > performance. > > I shouldn't even have said "new KR2"having flown KR2S and the KR2 > for hundreds of hours each, and the fact that building an S is almost > exactly the same labor and cost as a KR2, I think you'd be crazy to > build a new KR2 when the KR2S is so much better. > > See more on this kind of stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/kopinion.html ... > > Mark Langford > ML at N56ML.com > http://www.n56ml.com > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to > change options > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > Eat those words. I have just finished my KR1 with the 5048 airfoil. -- *Gary * /Soli Deo Gloria/
KR> new airfoil modifications
If a person has Diehl wing skin's with the Raf 48 airfoil and mounted AS5046 rib's, Will the skin's fit? On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Gary via KRnet wrote: > On 10/3/2016 5:58 AM, Mark Langford via KRnet wrote: > >> Kayak Chris wrote: >> >> Dumb question, can I assume this suggestion applies to the kr1 kr1.5 >>> etc (all kr variants) as well? >>> >> >> Probably so. Few people build KR1's anymore (it's usually a KR2S that's >> narrowed a bit), so nobody's built a KR1 with the new airfoil, but it is >> interchangeable with the RAF48, but with more efficient performance. >> >> I shouldn't even have said "new KR2"having flown KR2S and the KR2 for >> hundreds of hours each, and the fact that building an S is almost exactly >> the same labor and cost as a KR2, I think you'd be crazy to build a new KR2 >> when the KR2S is so much better. >> >> See more on this kind of stuff at http://www.n56ml.com/kopinion.html ... >> >> Mark Langford >> ML at N56ML.com >> http://www.n56ml.com >> >> >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. >> Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. >> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to >> change options >> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org >> >> > Eat those words. I have just finished my KR1 with the 5048 airfoil. > > -- > *Gary * > /Soli Deo Gloria/ > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org >
KR> new airfoil modifications
"If a person has Diehl wing skin's with the Raf 48 airfoil and mounted AS5046 rib's, Will the skin's fit?" Hello Don, I have built my wings with the Diehl skins and my first reaction would be to say no. The skins themselves are fairly flexible cord wise as far as airfoil shape is concerned but the skins have built in recesses for the main and aft spars. If I recall these spar locations change with the new airfoil. Also the leading edge radius is not going to match the new airfoil and obviously you will have to come up with the correct airfoil templates. I think it would be a lot more work to try and retrofit the RAF48 skins to fit the new airfoil then to just go ahead and start with the new airfoil and build it from scratch. However, as I am very close to finally finishing my baby there is no way I am going to add any more time to my build. I am sure I will be very happy with the wing I have and the amount of time that it saved me. Stephen Teate Paradise, Texas The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized, and any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken or omitted in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
KR> new airfoil modifications
KR> new airfoil modifications
? I can't give an authoritative answer, but I would have to agree with what Stephen says.? If you want the AS Airfoil, sell your Diehl Skins. While the AS series air foil is a nice design and undoubtedly a much better refined airfoil, there's nothing wrong with the RAF-48 if you want to go that route. My KR has the Diehl Skins and RAF airfoil since it predates the development of the AS series airfoil.? It's no slouch in performance even with my heavyweight lard butt in the seat. However, if I was building a new KR today and had no parts on hand for the wings, I would definitely build it with the AS airfoil. ? -Jeff Scott Subject:?Re: KR> new airfoil modifications If a person has Diehl wing skin's with the Raf 48 airfoil and mounted AS5046 rib's, Will the skin's fit? ?
KR> new airfoil modifications
At 08:50 AM 10/3/2016, you wrote: >Probably so. Few people build KR1's anymore (it's usually a KR2S >that's narrowed a bit), so nobody's built a KR1 with the new >airfoil, but it is interchangeable with the RAF48, but with more >efficient performance. + Are there new airfoil drawings scaled to the KR1 fuselage? If anyone is building a KR1 scaled up to the KR2 fuselage I'd sure go with the new airfoil. I'm flying the RAF48 but after a 13 year build I'm not about to build new wings. My 48's have given me 600 hours of fun flying. Larry Flesner
KR> new airfoil modifications
Donald, > If a person has Diehl wing skin's with the Raf 48 airfoil and mounted > AS5046 rib's, Will the skin's fit? Mark L had a lot of comments about this at the gathering but not everyone got to hear. Reference: http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ and http://www.nvaero.com/categories/Aircraft-Components/Wings/KR%252d2S-Wing-Components/ I would imagine they would not fit, but there are two designs to the new airfoil, one that fits the spars per the kr plans, and another that has shorter spars for the new design. I have no idea what nVAero has built to. I'm no expert on these airfoils. Regards, Tucker
KR> new airfoil modifications
>Mark Langford wrote: >A lot of folks have opted for the new airfoil and managed to alter the >bellcrank to work successfully, so would those that have, please post a >link as to how they did it? I also built the AS5048 airfoil and had to devise a bellcrank system since the stock was too large to mount on the rear of the spar. What I did was to reverse engineer the bellcrank and I mounted it on the forward side of the rear spar. Take a look at the following link especially the photos toward the bottom of the page. http://flykr2s.com/stubwing1.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Dunedin, FL E-mail: flykr2s at gmail.com Web: www.flykr2s.com
KR> new airfoil / bellcrank
At 07:17 PM 10/3/2016, you wrote: >>Mark Langford wrote: >>A lot of folks have opted for the new airfoil and managed to alter >>the bellcrank to work successfully, so would those that have, >>please post a link as to how they did it? Take a look at the following link especially the photos toward the bottom of the page. http://flykr2s.com/stubwing1.html The bellcrank design calls for the two arms to be separated by a channel which is a portion of one of the arms. Why not compress the bellcrank to two flat arms bolted together and eliminate the separation. This would compress the assembly to a very thin assembly that should easily fit within the new airfoil. One cable could be attached to the top side of one arm with a small spacer and the other to the bottom side of the other arm with a small spacer, thus separating the cables at crossover. Another option would be to connect the cables to the bellcrank beyond the crossover point with thin lengths of metal. Larry Flesner
KR> Aileron Rigging
At 07:34 PM 10/3/2016, you wrote: >I've been thinking about using push-pull cables for the ailerons rather >than the conventional arrangement. Other aircraft designs have used that type of setup. The Murphy Rebel uses such a cable to actuate the "flaperons". Larry Flesner
KR> Aileron Rigging - bellcranks and push pull cables
Tony King wrote: > But I'm pretty sure using push-pull cables with no > bellcranks would eliminate any differential action of the ailerons. > It might be possible to get some of that back by doing something like > what Mark Langford did with his ailerons (where the front edge sticks > up into the airflow as the aileron goes down) . I guess my question > really is what effect is that likely to have on a KR? Yep, you'll need a bellcrank if you want differential ailerons, and the plans version does that. Any kind of bellcranks works though...it's just the geometry of the hole pattern (which I'm sure you know). Frise ailerons work fine too. Either one does the job, but I chose to do a little of both, and it works great, as the only time I need to touch the rudder pedals is on takeoff and during windy landings or a slip. But Larry Flesner will be quick to tell you that the stock differential ailerons work fine too, just like they are, and that the best way to keep the ball centered in a KR is to simply keep your feet away from the pedals, whether straight ahead or in a turn...it works great! There's more on Frise ailerons buried in the page at http://www.n56ml.com/owings.html , but you might get lost in there. I don't recognize the young kid in those photos though... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com
KR> Aileron Rigging - bellcranks and push pull cables
Oh, and I forgot push-pull-cables. They can be bad news, and heavy is the least of it. The more curves there in the housings, the more slop you'll have as they take up the space between cable and housing, and the friction is much higher than a pulley system. There's a very good reason why the vast majority of aircraft use pull-pull cables, and it's less friction and virtually no slop. I have first hand experience on my "work project" for the last six years. A young engineer chose push-pull cables, and laying out on a table, they were "friction free". Install them, add a few curves, and it becomes a nightmare. And the higher load you put on them, the higher the friction goes. That doesn't really happen with pull-pull cables. We are changing back to what I recommended in the beginning...aircraft-type pull-pull cables. Granted, for straight, short cables, from stick to bellcrank, that'll probably work, and have the advantage of the ability to land if one side fails, but I don't know of a single KR (and very few other aircraft) that have had that problem. Give it a try though, and let us know how it works out. Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com
KR> New airfoil on old style spars question
This topic brings me to a question I hadnt thought of. I have a kr2 plans built boat stage with outer spars made and all the wafs attached. Does the new style airfoil match the spars positions? What changes would be needed to the shape of the spars of any (shaved down, chamfered etc) ? Also as it appears (iirc) , my boat has the rigging out to the bellcranks on the rear center spar ends so it looks from these messages that those will be too "thick" and have to be redone. I have not yet purchased skins yet. Basically, what can I expect to do moving forward to accomodate what I have with the new airfoil? And if I choose to make the wings the "old way" what kind of labor hours and cost is usually expended and would that make it easir to build the new airfoil onto the original spar position and dimensions? Sorry for long winded question but I think you can see what Im trying to determine here...
KR> Aileron Rigging - bellcranks and push pull cables
Just as aside, my Avid Mk4 has push pull control tubes for elevator and ailerons including a complex aileron "mixer" that allows the flaperons to operate as flaps and ailerons at the same time, and to fold the wings back without disconnecting anything. (Although at low speeds the system can deliver a "control reversal" condition. That only happens at low speed which usually also includes low altitude which is always a fun time to experience it.) I dont recall any friction issues.
KR> New airfoil on old style spars question
Kayak Chris wrote: > I have a kr2 plans built boat stage with outer spars made and all > the wafs attached. > > Does the new style airfoil match the spars positions? What changes would be > needed to the shape of the spars of any (shaved down, chamfered etc) > ? Go check the airfoil templates at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/templates.html and compare the spar thicknesses shown in the templates to your existing spars. Adding material is easy, and there is likely some room for some removal but I'm not about to sign up for figuring out how much. The goal was to fit perfectly on the KR2S. I will confess to not having checked the KR2, which has different sweep than the KR2S. Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com
KR> New airfoil on old style spars question
At 09:05 PM 10/3/2016, you wrote: >my boat has the rigging out to the bellcranks >on the rear center spar ends so it looks from these messages that those >will be too "thick" and have to be redone. >+++ I'd have to do some research (measuring) but it seems to me the aileron bellcrank assembly could be compressed a bit without causing cable interference and be made to fit inside the new wing assembly. Has anyone tried that with no success? Larry Flesner
KR> New airfoil / bell crank
> >I'd have to do some research (measuring) but it seems to me the >aileron bellcrank assembly could be compressed >a bit without causing cable interference and be made to fit inside >the new wing assembly. >Larry Flesner >+ I just checked the plans and the two arms on the aileron bell crank are separated by one full inch. Would rebuilding to 1/2 inch clearance allow it to fit within the airfoil. 1/2 inch cable clearance on the crossover seems adequate to me in a tight closed cable system. I'm thinking I'd be comfortable flying with that. Larry Flesner
