KR> Differential aileron control

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Goosh, I'm almost sorry I started this thread. While it has been informative 
Mark Jones is the only one that answered the question. Will it make a 
difference in the flying characteristics of a KR2s. His answer was No from 
actual flying of the non conforming configuration. While this debate has 
carried on over the past few days I was able to modify the horns to a 
configuration that will maintain the differential ailerons and they are 
fabricated and nearly ready to install and complete the push pull control 
system to the stub wings. Also fabricated and ready to complete the seat 
assembly. Also did some work towards finishing the rudder controls and brake 
assembly. This is second time around for me and I am shocked how fast I can 
make and install something without agonizing over every little thing. Will time 
for the tree to go up and start the hoe hoe hoeing.Merry Christmas,Joe Horton

Apple's Crazy New Gizmo
Forget the iPhone 6. Next hit Apple product leaked. (see picture)
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/548c79655af4679655034st01duc

KR> Differential aileron control

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 The downward aileron deflection of the upward going wing will stall 
first.
 You change the camber of the wing and increase the angle of attack, 
Virg


 On 12/13/2014 8:51 AM, Tinyauto--- via KRnet wrote:
>   
> The idea of differential control having a side advantage of reducing the
> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along checking
> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of maybe 30  de
> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if the
> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would  actually
> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of the turn.
>   
> Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and the turn
>   didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank out part
> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron helps an
> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am  just not grasping
> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
> wrong?
>   
> Kevin Golden
> Harrisonville, MO
>   
>
>
>
>
>
> Differential aileron  deflection
>
>
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>
> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>
> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to bias the
> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the upward
> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and separation  drag
>   further  aids in producing
> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
> turn.
> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is very easy
> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant advantage of
> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>   at the tip  first by
> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated  effective
> increase in angle of attack.
>
> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
> implementation and safety  benefits.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>

KR> Differential aileron control

[Chris Kinnaman]

Exactly. This condition can bite you low and real slow, like during a 
landing flare or thereabouts. Back in the day of "rudder airplanes" when 
aileron differential was not common, people talked about "aileron 
reversal" at low speeds. The wing you wanted to go up, with its aileron 
down, would stall and drop in a seeming reversal of control input. The 
ailerons are not simply deflectors. When moved, they effectively change 
the camber of the airfoil and therefore the angle of attack. This is why 
using rudder to raise a wing while in a stalled or near-stalled 
condition is taught - the ailerons are kept as neutral as possible. Of 
course there are many airplanes with ailerons that are effective well 
into the stall.

On 12/13/2014 10:31 AM, Virgil N.Salisbury via KRnet wrote:
>
> The downward aileron deflection of the upward going wing will 
> stall first.
> You change the camber of the wing and increase the angle of 
> attack, Virg
>
>
> On 12/13/2014 8:51 AM, Tinyauto--- via KRnet wrote:
>>   The idea of differential control having a side advantage of 
>> reducing the
>> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along 
>> checking
>> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of 
>> maybe 30  de
>> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if 
>> the
>> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would actually
>> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of 
>> the turn.
>>   Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and 
>> the turn
>>   didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank 
>> out part
>> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron 
>> helps an
>> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
>> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am just not 
>> grasping
>> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall" part.  Am I
>> wrong?
>>   Kevin Golden
>> Harrisonville, MO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Differential aileron  deflection
>>
>>
>> 
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/ 
>>
>> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>>
>> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>>
>> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to 
>> bias the
>> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the 
>> upward
>> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and 
>> separation  drag
>>   further aids in 
>> producing
>> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
>> turn.
>> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is 
>> very easy
>> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant 
>> advantage of
>> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>>   at the tip  first by
>> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated effective
>> increase in angle of attack.
>>
>> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the 
>> simple
>> implementation and safety  benefits.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
>> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
>> change options
>>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
> change options
>
>

KR> Differential aileron control

[Christopher Pryce]

In a turn, if you bank further, the downward moving wing's angle of attack
is decreased. You actually have to worry about the outside wing and the
increased angle of attack as it is moving. The reduced downward deflection
of the aileron helps in that aspect.

Chris Pryce
On Dec 13, 2014 8:51 AM, "Tinyauto--- via KRnet" 
wrote:

>
> The idea of differential control having a side advantage of reducing the
> chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along checking
> out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of maybe
> 30  de
> grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if the
> pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would  actually
> cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of the
> turn.
>
> Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and the turn
>  didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank out part
> of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron helps an
> airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two
> separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am  just not
> grasping
> the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
> wrong?
>
> Kevin Golden
> Harrisonville, MO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Differential aileron  deflection
>
>
> 
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
> 450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png
>
> Illustration  of a Differential aileron
>
> The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to bias the
> travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the upward
> aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and separation
> drag
>   further  aids in
> producing
> drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the
> turn.
> Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is very
> easy
> to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant advantage
> of
> reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
>   at the tip  first by
> limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated  effective
> increase in angle of attack.
>
> Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
> implementation and safety  benefits.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> Differential aileron control

[Tinyauto at aol.com]

The idea of differential control having a side advantage of reducing the  
chance of stall is nonsense to me.  Lets say we are flying along checking  
out something on the ground and are in a moderately steep bank of maybe 30  de
grees and allow the airplane to get somewhat slow.  It would seem  if the 
pilot would slam in full deflection that the differential would  actually 
cause a stall of the already slower traveling wing on the inside  of the turn.  
 

Now I realize if the airplane didn't have differential control and the turn 
 didn't stay coordinated that the nose of the airplane would blank out part 
of  the wing and possibly causing a stall.  Differential aileron helps an  
airplane fly easier (less pilot attention) due to not having to use  two 
separate controls to keep flying coordinated.  However I am  just not grasping 
the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I 
wrong?

Kevin Golden
Harrisonville, MO






Differential aileron  deflection



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/DifferentialAileron.svg/
450px-DifferentialAileron.svg.png

Illustration  of a Differential aileron

The geometry of most aileron linkages can be  configured so as to bias the
travel further upward than downward. By  excessively deflecting the upward
aileron, profile drag is increased rather  than reduced and separation  drag
  further  aids in producing
drag on the inside wing, producing a yaw force in the  direction of the 
turn.
Though not as efficient as rudder mixing, aileron  differential is very easy
to implement on almost any airplane and offers the  significant advantage of
reducing the tendency for the wing to  stall
  at the tip  first by
limiting the downward aileron deflection and its associated  effective
increase in angle of attack.

Most airplanes use this method  of adverse yaw mitigation due to the simple
implementation and safety  benefits.

KR> Differential aileron control

[Flesner]

At 07:51 AM 12/13/2014, you wrote:
>However I am  just not grasping
>the idea of it "reducing the tendency for the wing to stall"  part.  Am I
>wrong?
>Kevin Golden
+

I think they are saying the wing is "slightly less likely" to stall 
compared to a non differential aileron setup as the down aileron 
doesn't go down "as far"..

No need to turn this thing into brain surgery.  Build to plans and 
they work just fine.  Or don't build to plans and become a REAL test pilot.

Larry Flesner