KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
My KR2S is very close to stock dimensions. I also used the RAF 48 airfoil and it is Tri-gear. I tried to widen it a bit, but only got about 1 1/2" because I had put the plywood on the sides 1st and it really didn't want to widen any further. If you want to widen the plane, you need to add the plywood sides on after you widen it without them on it. I am also using a KR2 canopy on my KR2S. Why? because it was cheaper and I am short. I love how it turned out so I don't worry much about what others say. She flies great. I love the light controls and maneuverability. I got to fly a RV-7, RV-6, and Beech Skipper lately. All fun and different, but I still love my KR more! Weight and balance is great with the Revmaster 2100D. Never been an issue, but I have a max limit I have set of a 200 pound passenger based on weight and balance calculations. I have done that many times and no issues. My engine has been reliable. I have certainly done some maintenance on her, but never felt concerned with my safety. We'll maybe at Jeff Scott's airport at Las Alamos (over 7,000 feet elevation) - where wish I had more horsepower that day! I get about 130 mph cruise speed, not the fastest KR out there, but I am having lots of fun. Almost 700 hours on my plane now. My empty weight when originally finished was 600 pounds. I do not have a fancy interior or paint job. I also just flew with basic VFR instruments for several years before I started adding a transponder, panel radio, and a Dynon D6. I suspect I am closer to 650 pounds now and should probably check it. Rob Schmitt www.robert7721.com KR2S N1852Z -Original Message- From: n357cj via KRnet To: KRnet Cc: n357cj Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2016 11:46 am Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Hi Gary,I can only answer for myself but mine was being built to the KR2S plans and it was only by a mistake when installing the tail post that I ended up with about 1 1/2" extra in the last bay. I would not add more to the fuselage on the foreword side of the main spar for W&B reasons as I think that at least three of us have that corvair tucked as far back against the firewall as we can get it. In addition to the W&B issues consider that every inch you add in either direction to a KR2S model is likely worth an additional pound per inch of length for no appreciable performance gain. The plane flies great at the 2S dimensions.There are certainly other factors that drive this discussion. Are you planning on balancing the elevator? Couple pounds there. elevator trim motor. some more weight. tail light, bigger surfaces. All these things are likely to get done, you just don't know it yet and then add another bay to the back??? more weight more moment arm it just never ends... pretty soon you have a better boat than plane. Just trying to make it rational for you not emotional decision. I am pretty certain that Jones is really pretty stock over all size, Langford's I think is the about the same, Rob Schmidit's I think is stock 2S. I think in the final analysis that Jeff Scott's and Larry,s are also very close to the stock. maybe 6" over all longer. Jeff Lange is flying a 2S that he acquired that I think is also pretty stock. Never heard nothing but great reports on handling for pitch and roll. I am going out on the proverbial limb here but I think that the W&B raises it ugliness closer to full gross. This is hearsay but I understand that Larry is less comfortable with his at full gross, Mark has told me a story about being light in the nose. I have turned around on taxi once that I felt wrong at full gross and taken the passenger back to the ramp. I only make mention of these to say that I don't know what would happen for sure adding additional length to the rear beyond the 2S. (waiting to hear Roberts answer to his over all length) I would be willing to bet that the plane built with an additional inch or 2 foreword and an extra bay to the rear could or would fly just fine. It certainly would look larger on the ramp. It will weigh more. I am having a lot of trouble rationalizing the pain for the perceived gain. Well so much for being politically correct. So if I hurt anyone just ask yourself if he should be drinking with that pain medication.Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa- Original Message -From: "Gary Wold via KRnet" To: "KRnet" Cc: "Gary Wold" Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 10:19:52 AMSubject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - againThanks for all of the input to my question regarding KR2S modifications. I am, however, a little confused (doesn't take much) about adding length to the KR2S plans fuselage and could use help with some clarity. Joe Horton said: ?I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans?
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Gary, Yes, that conclusion matches what I just posted. (5 inches forward of the spar should work with either engine, and no spacers) Plans length , plus 14 inches , aft of the spar. Width, your choice , but wider by a few inches than stock will be a welcome improvement you won't regret. Chris Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Feb 12, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Gary Wold via KRnet > wrote: > > Thanks for all of the input to my question regarding KR2S modifications. I > am, however, a little confused (doesn't take much) about adding length to the > KR2S plans fuselage and could use help with some clarity. > > > > Joe Horton said: ?I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and > mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans? > > > > Larry Flesner said: "Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length..., > and the two inches forward of the spar" > > > > Robert Pesak said: "I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches > aft of the main spar, and it flies just fine with a 0200 continental." > > > > Wayne DeLisle said: " the KR2S already has an extra 2" added in the cowl > area. No need to add more." > > > > Mark Jones said: " is exactly the way my KR2S is built. Two inches > forward of spar." > > > > From Mark Langford's KR2S fuselage website: ?What would I do differently > given the opportunity? I'd probably use all of the 14 feet of longeron > material that Wicks Aircraft sent me, by adding 2.75" to each of the seven > bays AFT of the aft spars, yielding a plane 19.25" longer. Another option is > to add another bay back there, with the same dimensions as the others.? > > > > > > I realize this is not an exact science but from the 'average' of this > experienced input, it sounds like the better way to go would be to add > another 2? forward of the main spar and leave the aft portion per the KR2S > plans. This, with using a Corvair engine, tricycle gear, and the ?stock? > horiz stab length (with new airfoil) would work out okay. Am I missing > something? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Gary Wold > > EAA Lifetime member > > Eagle Scout > > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your > eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long > to return." - Leonardo da Vinci > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
My KR2S is the same as Robert 's ( which is the 2S plans , standard extension , 3 inches in front of the spar and 14 aft) and it balances perfectly with a 2180VW GP with a 2 inch spacer on the standard engine mount. If I did it again I would add 2 more inches in front of the spar for more leg room. Mine is stock width to fit the RR premolded parts ,although I regret not adding 2-3 inches in width. Standard 2S tail surfaces per plans, no elevator balance weights . Flys great Chris Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Feb 12, 2016, at 6:45 AM, Robert Pesak via KRnet > wrote: > > > > I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches aft of the main spar, > and it flies just fine with a 0200
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Hi Gary, I can only answer for myself but mine was being built to the KR2S plans and it was only by a mistake when installing the tail post that I ended up with about 1 1/2" extra in the last bay. I would not add more to the fuselage on the foreword side of the main spar for W&B reasons as I think that at least three of us have that corvair tucked as far back against the firewall as we can get it. In addition to the W&B issues consider that every inch you add in either direction to a KR2S model is likely worth an additional pound per inch of length for no appreciable performance gain. The plane flies great at the 2S dimensions. ?? ?There are certainly other factors that drive this discussion. Are you planning on balancing the elevator? Couple pounds there. elevator trim motor. some more weight. tail light, bigger surfaces. All these things are likely to get done, you just don't know it yet and then add another bay to the back??? more weight more moment arm it just never ends... pretty soon you have a better boat than plane. Just trying to make it rational for you not emotional decision. I am pretty certain that Jones is really pretty stock over all size, Langford's I think is the about the same, Rob Schmidit's I think is stock 2S. I think in the final analysis that Jeff Scott's and Larry,s are also very close to the stock. maybe 6" over all longer. Jeff Lange is flying a 2S that he acquired that I think is also pretty stock. Never heard nothing but great reports on handling for pitch and roll. ?? ? ? I am going out on the proverbial limb here but I think that the W&B raises it ugliness closer to full gross. This is hearsay but I understand that Larry is less comfortable with his at full gross, Mark has told me a story about being light in the nose. I have turned around on taxi once that I felt wrong at full gross and taken the passenger back to the ramp. I only make mention of these to say that I don't know what would happen for sure adding additional length to the rear beyond the 2S. (waiting to hear Roberts answer to his over all length) ?? ? ? ?I would be willing to bet that the plane built with an additional inch or 2 foreword and an extra bay to the rear could or would fly just fine. It certainly would look larger on the ramp. It will weigh more. I am having a lot of trouble rationalizing the pain for the perceived gain. ? Well so much for being politically correct. So if I hurt anyone just ask yourself if he should be drinking with that pain medication. Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa - Original Message - From: "Gary Wold via KRnet" To: "KRnet" Cc: "Gary Wold" Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 10:19:52 AM Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Thanks for all of the input to my question regarding KR2S modifications. ?I am, however, a little confused (doesn't take much) about adding length to the KR2S plans fuselage and could use help with some clarity. ? Joe Horton said: ? ?I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans? ? Larry Flesner said: ? "Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length..., and the two inches forward of the spar" ? Robert Pesak said: ?"I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches aft of the main spar, and it flies just fine with a 0200 continental." ? Wayne DeLisle said: ?" the KR2S already has an extra 2" added in the cowl area. No need to add more." ? Mark Jones said: ?" is exactly the way my KR2S is built. Two inches forward of spar." ? >From Mark Langford's KR2S fuselage website: ??What would I do differently >given the opportunity? I'd probably use all of the 14 feet of longeron >material that Wicks Aircraft sent me, by adding 2.75" to each of the seven >bays AFT of the aft spars, yielding a plane 19.25" longer. Another option is >to add another bay back there, with the same dimensions as the others.? ? ? I realize this is not an exact science but from the 'average' of this experienced input, it sounds like the better way to go would be to add another 2? forward of the main spar and leave the aft portion per the KR2S plans. ?This, with using a Corvair engine, tricycle gear, and the ?stock? horiz stab length (with new airfoil) would work out okay. ?Am I missing something? ? Thanks ? ? ? ? Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout ? "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." ? - Leonardo da Vinci ? ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Thanks for all of the input to my question regarding KR2S modifications. I am, however, a little confused (doesn't take much) about adding length to the KR2S plans fuselage and could use help with some clarity. Joe Horton said: ?I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans? Larry Flesner said: "Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length..., and the two inches forward of the spar" Robert Pesak said: "I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches aft of the main spar, and it flies just fine with a 0200 continental." Wayne DeLisle said: " the KR2S already has an extra 2" added in the cowl area. No need to add more." Mark Jones said: " is exactly the way my KR2S is built. Two inches forward of spar." >From Mark Langford's KR2S fuselage website: ?What would I do differently >given the opportunity? I'd probably use all of the 14 feet of longeron >material that Wicks Aircraft sent me, by adding 2.75" to each of the seven >bays AFT of the aft spars, yielding a plane 19.25" longer. Another option is >to add another bay back there, with the same dimensions as the others.? I realize this is not an exact science but from the 'average' of this experienced input, it sounds like the better way to go would be to add another 2? forward of the main spar and leave the aft portion per the KR2S plans. This, with using a Corvair engine, tricycle gear, and the ?stock? horiz stab length (with new airfoil) would work out okay. Am I missing something? Thanks Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I'm near La Crosse, WI Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of PatS via KRnet Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 11:00 PM To: KRnet Cc: PatS Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Gary where are you located? PatS Seminary, MS ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
At 05:45 AM 2/12/2016, you wrote: > I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches aft of > the main spar, and it flies just fine with a 0200 continental. Robert, 3 inches forward and 14 inches aft of which model, KR2 or KR2S. Larry Flesner
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I added 3 inches forward of my main spar and 14 inches aft of the main spar, and it flies just fine with a 0200 continental. Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S? 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Gary Wold via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 02/11/2016 1:30 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'KRnet' Cc: Gary Wold Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Thanks, Larry.? Add 2" forward of the spar with a Corvair engine?? I've not seen anything about extending forward until now. You do make a good point about the canopy and the roll bar. Now I understand why yours is different than what I've seen on others.? I like the forward canopy from the aspect that it gets more out of the way for entry and exit but the roll bar protection is an important consideration. Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."?? - Leonardo da Vinci -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Flesner via KRnet Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:34 PM To: KRnet Cc: Larry Flesner Subject: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again At 12:33 PM 2/10/2016, you wrote: >I think that Larry F has an extra bay above the 2s but I also think he >may have added forward of the main spar also ++ My boat is 24 inches longer than a standard KR2.? Nothing added forward of the spar and I have standard KR2 tail surfaces.? Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length and the 2S increased tail surfaces, and the two inches forward of the spar.? Also the wider fuselage at the shoulders.? That would be very much like the 2S that Langford built and I think he would agree it was a great flyer. As for a header tank, I went wing tanks only in the out wing sections. That's a personal call.? I read a crash report years ago about a KR1 that had a hard landing, the firewall broke away and the ruptured tank dumped it's contents on the pilot.? Why it never caught fire is a mystery. My two major concerns when building were fire and roll over.? I put all my fuel in the outer wings and built a fixed windshield with windshield and turtle deck bow with gullwing door and breakaway section on the passenger side.?? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/100_5561.JPG Your concerns and comfort level may be different so build to suit yourself. Larry Flesner ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Gary where are you located? PatS Seminary, MS
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Mark, My hanger door is ok, but just too cold or too slippery on the runways to fly. Joe,Merrill -From: "Mark Jones via KRnet" To: "KRnet" Cc: "Mark Jones" Sent: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 17:40:43 -0600 Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Yep, we are counting the days till school is out and then it is goodbye Wisconsin!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Stevens Point, WI E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net Web: www.flykr2s.com -Original Message- From: Earl Klinker via KRnet Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:35 PM To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Earl Klinker Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again This will really be looking forward to your move to Florida. No frozen hanger doors here. Earl Klinker I would go fly right now if only my hangar door was not frozen in 5 inches of ice to the ground. > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Stevens Point, WI > > E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net > Web: www.flykr2s.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Gary, the KR2S already has an extra 2" added in the cowl area. No need to add more. -- Wayne DeLisle Sr. > Gary Wold pilotgary at charter.net > Thu Feb 11 14:30:24 EST 2016 > Thanks, Larry. Add 2" forward of the spar with a Corvair engine? I've not > seen anything about extending forward until now.
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
60 degrees and sunny at my hanger today in Baker Florida. ?I opened the hanger door and let the sunshine in while I worked on my plane. ? ^^^I would go fly right now if only my hangar door was not frozen in 5 inches of ice to the ground.^^^ > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Stevens Point, WI^^ Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Yep, we are counting the days till school is out and then it is goodbye Wisconsin!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Stevens Point, WI E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net Web: www.flykr2s.com -Original Message- From: Earl Klinker via KRnet Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:35 PM To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Earl Klinker Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again This will really be looking forward to your move to Florida. No frozen hanger doors here. Earl Klinker I would go fly right now if only my hangar door was not frozen in 5 inches of ice to the ground. > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Stevens Point, WI > > E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net > Web: www.flykr2s.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
This will really be looking forward to your move to Florida. No frozen hanger doors here. Earl Klinker I would go fly right now if only my hangar door was not frozen in 5 inches of ice to the ground. > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Stevens Point, WI > > E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net > Web: www.flykr2s.com
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
>Gary wrote: >Thanks, Larry. Add 2" forward of the spar with a Corvair engine? I've not >seen anything about extending forward until now. Gary, The description Larry gave of modifications is exactly the way my KR2S is built. Two inches forward of spar. Widened at the shoulders. Increased head room. New airfoil. Larger tail surface area. Mine has the Corvair, no header tank and flies beautifully. I would go fly right now if only my hangar door was not frozen in 5 inches of ice to the ground. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Stevens Point, WI E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net Web: www.flykr2s.com
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
If tricycle gear is what you know then I would go with it. ^^If not making mistakes was a pre requisite to life there would only be one of us.^^ Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I'm planning to build with tricycle gear. I'll probably hear some comments about this but taildragger flying makes me nervous. All my flying has been in tricycle gear planes. Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Flesner via KRnet Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 6:23 PM To: KRnet Cc: Larry Flesner Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again I would also go with longer then the Diehl 24 inch gear legs. Mine are 30 inch ( https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/002.jpg ) but 28 inch would probably work well on a stock KR2S. You'll have to make your own as the 30 inch legs are probably not available for purchase. Jeff Scott and I have the only two sets that Dan Diehl ever sold. I'd also go with my Aviation Products lightweight single fork tailwheel assembly modified to accept the 6 inch Matco wheel and pneumatic tire. The noise level over a solid wheel is night and day. Larry Flesner ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Thanks, Larry. Add 2" forward of the spar with a Corvair engine? I've not seen anything about extending forward until now. You do make a good point about the canopy and the roll bar. Now I understand why yours is different than what I've seen on others. I like the forward canopy from the aspect that it gets more out of the way for entry and exit but the roll bar protection is an important consideration. Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Flesner via KRnet Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 5:34 PM To: KRnet Cc: Larry Flesner Subject: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again At 12:33 PM 2/10/2016, you wrote: >I think that Larry F has an extra bay above the 2s but I also think he >may have added forward of the main spar also ++ My boat is 24 inches longer than a standard KR2. Nothing added forward of the spar and I have standard KR2 tail surfaces. Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length and the 2S increased tail surfaces, and the two inches forward of the spar. Also the wider fuselage at the shoulders. That would be very much like the 2S that Langford built and I think he would agree it was a great flyer. As for a header tank, I went wing tanks only in the out wing sections. That's a personal call. I read a crash report years ago about a KR1 that had a hard landing, the firewall broke away and the ruptured tank dumped it's contents on the pilot. Why it never caught fire is a mystery. My two major concerns when building were fire and roll over. I put all my fuel in the outer wings and built a fixed windshield with windshield and turtle deck bow with gullwing door and breakaway section on the passenger side. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/100_5561.JPG Your concerns and comfort level may be different so build to suit yourself. Larry Flesner ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Joe, I appreciate your detailed response and comments regarding each of the modifications I listed. Mark indicated at the bottom of his website regarding fuselage build ( http://www.n56ml.com/kfuse.html ) that if he had it to do over he probably would use the full 14' longeron material with either another bay or adding a couple inches to each bay behind the rear spar. I too am concerned about the potential balance issue with a longer fuselage although I am planning to use a Corvair engine (assuming I can find one) so a little more weight than a VW. Regarding the header tank, I certainly can relate to the desire for the 'security' of a header tank for fuel flow but I've also read various bits about weight and balance shift as the fuel level goes down. Am I just over thinking this stuff? Easier to adjust during the build than after. Thanks Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of n357cj via KRnet Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 12:33 PM To: KRnet Cc: n357cj Subject: Re: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again Hey Gary, This going to be advise from someone that can say I am doing it this way on their second build which I am in the middle of. In addition to the things mentioned below or to clarify. I will make my comments as per the list you have provided below. Number one and number two I have completed Number three - this term has been used in a number of different ways that has always bothered me as for its clarity. I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans. It flys and weight and balance is great even with burning 12 gals out of a header tank. So are they telling you another bay longer than a KR2 or KR2S. There are weight and balance implications to getting the weight too far back also. I think that Larry F has an extra bay above the 2s but I also think he may have added forward of the main spar also I am one of the people that think the KR2S elevator and and horizontal stab are more than adequate and perform well on my plane, havin said that the new one has them wider for both and with the airfoil as opposed to the stock slab design. The angle of incidence and the relationship to the wing incidence is of far greater importance here. Number ?four.. increase the vertical height is yes good but I feel it would be more accurate to say how much should the area of the surfaces be increased. I think and will have to double check but but I think that i increased the vertical stab and rudder by 20% over the 2s design. I absolutely need more control for some of the crosswind landings and takeoff's I have gotten away with. Number five - use the larger airfoil- I am Number six and seven ... yes .. I am Number eight.. I find that i can not give up the safety factor of having a header tank that can gravity feed my engine. The argument of fuel in your lap is emotional at best, I do not remember any instance of accidents that the header fuel tank was a factor (i will likely get corrected here) I currently have built and plan to use wing tanks in the outer wings at 10 gal each and am building the header tank that will be the reserve (always) of about 7 to 8 gals. I do not have the fuel pump and line configuration completely figured out yet but am very close. ?? ?Suggestions Keep it light... light LIGHT! clean off the extra glue -clean up epoxy runs- make sure foam is sanded correctly because everything after the glass is just weight in the form of filler- resist adding additional layers of cloth except the deck cloth which goes a very long ways towards the ultimate finish. There does not need to be beefing up of areas it is already stronger than I have been able to break. I am not installing motors for belly board or trim opting to save that addition of weight for auto pilot servos (which I have installed currently and will not go without again either). I am on the fence about instruments at this point about how much glass is to much but there is certainly a weight savings to be had right in the panel of first guess is the upper side of 5 lbs. Your results will certainly be different, but hope it helps some. Joe Horton, N357CJ (860hrs) in the hanger and unidentified 2S in the shop - Original Message - From: "Gary Wold via KRnet" To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: "Gary Wold" Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 12:10:35 PM Subject: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again I feel like I am almost starting over with the KR2S. ?With the end of my caregiving responsibilities, I now have some time to get into the build. ? ? Just started going back through the information on the KR website
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I would also go with longer then the Diehl 24 inch gear legs. Mine are 30 inch ( https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/002.jpg ) but 28 inch would probably work well on a stock KR2S. You'll have to make your own as the 30 inch legs are probably not available for purchase. Jeff Scott and I have the only two sets that Dan Diehl ever sold. I'd also go with my Aviation Products lightweight single fork tailwheel assembly modified to accept the 6 inch Matco wheel and pneumatic tire. The noise level over a solid wheel is night and day. Larry Flesner
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
At 12:33 PM 2/10/2016, you wrote: >I think that Larry F has an extra bay above the 2s but I also think >he may have added forward of the main spar also ++ My boat is 24 inches longer than a standard KR2. Nothing added forward of the spar and I have standard KR2 tail surfaces. Starting over I'd go with the standard KR2S length and the 2S increased tail surfaces, and the two inches forward of the spar. Also the wider fuselage at the shoulders. That would be very much like the 2S that Langford built and I think he would agree it was a great flyer. As for a header tank, I went wing tanks only in the out wing sections. That's a personal call. I read a crash report years ago about a KR1 that had a hard landing, the firewall broke away and the ruptured tank dumped it's contents on the pilot. Why it never caught fire is a mystery. My two major concerns when building were fire and roll over. I put all my fuel in the outer wings and built a fixed windshield with windshield and turtle deck bow with gullwing door and breakaway section on the passenger side. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/100_5561.JPG Your concerns and comfort level may be different so build to suit yourself. Larry Flesner
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I have been hanging upside down by the seatbelt in a KR with the header tank on fire. All the fuel in the wings is wise advice. From: Larry Flesner via KRnet As for a header tank, I went wing tanks only in the out wing sections. That's a personal call. I read a crash report years ago about a KR1 that had a hard landing, the firewall broke away and the ruptured tank dumped it's contents on the pilot. Why it never caught fire is a mystery.
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
Hey Gary, This going to be advise from someone that can say I am doing it this way on their second build which I am in the middle of. In addition to the things mentioned below or to clarify. I will make my comments as per the list you have provided below. Number one and number two I have completed Number three - this term has been used in a number of different ways that has always bothered me as for its clarity. I am flying my first KR2S and it is longer than a KR2 and mine is 1 1/2" longer than the KR2S plans. It flys and weight and balance is great even with burning 12 gals out of a header tank. So are they telling you another bay longer than a KR2 or KR2S. There are weight and balance implications to getting the weight too far back also. I think that Larry F has an extra bay above the 2s but I also think he may have added forward of the main spar also I am one of the people that think the KR2S elevator and and horizontal stab are more than adequate and perform well on my plane, havin said that the new one has them wider for both and with the airfoil as opposed to the stock slab design. The angle of incidence and the relationship to the wing incidence is of far greater importance here. Number ?four.. increase the vertical height is yes good but I feel it would be more accurate to say how much should the area of the surfaces be increased. I think and will have to double check but but I think that i increased the vertical stab and rudder by 20% over the 2s design. I absolutely need more control for some of the crosswind landings and takeoff's I have gotten away with. Number five - use the larger airfoil- I am Number six and seven ... yes .. I am Number eight.. I find that i can not give up the safety factor of having a header tank that can gravity feed my engine. The argument of fuel in your lap is emotional at best, I do not remember any instance of accidents that the header fuel tank was a factor (i will likely get corrected here) I currently have built and plan to use wing tanks in the outer wings at 10 gal each and am building the header tank that will be the reserve (always) of about 7 to 8 gals. I do not have the fuel pump and line configuration completely figured out yet but am very close. ?? ?Suggestions Keep it light... light LIGHT! clean off the extra glue -clean up epoxy runs- make sure foam is sanded correctly because everything after the glass is just weight in the form of filler- resist adding additional layers of cloth except the deck cloth which goes a very long ways towards the ultimate finish. There does not need to be beefing up of areas it is already stronger than I have been able to break. I am not installing motors for belly board or trim opting to save that addition of weight for auto pilot servos (which I have installed currently and will not go without again either). I am on the fence about instruments at this point about how much glass is to much but there is certainly a weight savings to be had right in the panel of first guess is the upper side of 5 lbs. Your results will certainly be different, but hope it helps some. Joe Horton, N357CJ (860hrs) in the hanger and unidentified 2S in the shop - Original Message - From: "Gary Wold via KRnet" To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: "Gary Wold" Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 12:10:35 PM Subject: KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again I feel like I am almost starting over with the KR2S. ?With the end of my caregiving responsibilities, I now have some time to get into the build. ? ? Just started going back through the information on the KR website and the plans to reacquaint myself with the wealth of information. ?While I am doing this, I want to send for an updated quote for the spruce and plywood with the idea of getting it ordered by the end of the month. ?I could, however, use some help with the recommended/suggested modifications before ordering material. ?Following is what I am currently planning: - ? ? ? Add 4" to fuselage width - ? ? ? Move widest point to the shoulder area - ? ? ? Lengthen the fuselage adding an additional bay per Mark's suggestion - ? ? ? Use the stock horizontal stab (per comments at OSH2015 forum) - ? ? ? Increase the vertical stab height - 4" maybe - ? ? ? Use the newer airfoil - wing and stab - ? ? ? Front hinge canopy - ? ? ? Belly board - ? ? ? Wing tanks (only) ? Anything else you would suggest? ? Itching to get started. ? Thanks ? ? ? Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout ? "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." ? - Leonardo da Vinci ? ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krn
KR> Preparing for KR2S build - again
I feel like I am almost starting over with the KR2S. With the end of my caregiving responsibilities, I now have some time to get into the build. Just started going back through the information on the KR website and the plans to reacquaint myself with the wealth of information. While I am doing this, I want to send for an updated quote for the spruce and plywood with the idea of getting it ordered by the end of the month. I could, however, use some help with the recommended/suggested modifications before ordering material. Following is what I am currently planning: - Add 4" to fuselage width - Move widest point to the shoulder area - Lengthen the fuselage adding an additional bay per Mark's suggestion - Use the stock horizontal stab (per comments at OSH2015 forum) - Increase the vertical stab height - 4" maybe - Use the newer airfoil - wing and stab - Front hinge canopy - Belly board - Wing tanks (only) Anything else you would suggest? Itching to get started. Thanks Gary Wold EAA Lifetime member Eagle Scout "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
