KR> Engine-out gliding

[Mark Langford]

I'd heard that there was a real difference in the glide ratio of a plane
with a wind-milling prop as opposed to one with a stopped prop, and thought
I'd test it to find what the story was for my KR...because I figured it'd be
good to know some day.  So one calm morning I climbed to 10,000'  and noted
altitude, compass heading, direction,  speed (best glide being about 80
mph), and then started a timer and pulled it back to idle.  I glided all the
way down to 2000' maintaining 80 mph all the way down (pretty close,
anyway), and stopped the timer.   Then I landed, replenished the two gallons
of fuel I'd used, climbed back to 10,000', took the same heading, started
the timer (same heading and altitude), and switched the ignition off to get
a dead prop.  Because I have a high compression engine with a short, light,
prop, the engine doesn't windmill at any speed that I've tried, but
certainly not at 80 mph.   Again I glided down to 2000' , stopped the timer,
and divided out the numbers.  They were almost identical, and certainly
within the range of any kind of measurement error.  I only mention this for
informational purposes, as it may come in handy someday for similar KRs.
Another useful tidbit is that the glide ratio for my heavy KR2S is just over
12:1 (12 miles horizontal for every mile of altitude).  

I'm guessing that a low-compression O-200 with a larger and heavier blade
might continue to windmill with the engine off, but I've never tested that
scenario.  I'm sure somebody else on the list has, however.

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> engine out take off

[Jeff Scott]

After blowing up an engine at night 20 years ago, I was a real Nervous Nelly in 
that particular plane at night from there on, but made myself do it anyway, 
sweaty palms and all.  It didn't seem to bother me in any other plane.  I have 
always flown with emergency landing sites in the back of my mind, so it didn't 
really change the way I fly.  Flying in the mountains all the time, there are 
many times when there are no good options.  Night time in the mountains is even 
worse.  There are no good options.  I put a lot of my effort and money into 
making sure that I don't see another engine failure.  I can't eliminate all 
risk, but I can sure reduce it by making sure my powerplant and fuel systems 
are in first class flying condition.

Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
N1213W


-- J L  wrote:
I think a good scare is in order every once in a while. I have never flown
the same after I had my engine quite because of a factory caused mag failure
on my VW. Had it quit one other time doing a high speed flyby and pulling to
45 degrees and then banking 90 (uncovered the fuel supply hole). That was
stupid on my part. Luckily it started again by windmilling as I have no
starter. The mag problem happened over the airport. Mark and Mark, you guys
have nerves of steel to have snapped back from engine failures as fast as
you have.
I am always looking for a place to land from takeoff to touchdown. You just
never know when it could happen. Its been 3 year since the last incident and
I still can't get it out of my mind.

Jeff



Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity!
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KR> engine out take off

[J L]

I think a good scare is in order every once in a while. I have never flown
the same after I had my engine quite because of a factory caused mag failure
on my VW. Had it quit one other time doing a high speed flyby and pulling to
45 degrees and then banking 90 (uncovered the fuel supply hole). That was
stupid on my part. Luckily it started again by windmilling as I have no
starter. The mag problem happened over the airport. Mark and Mark, you guys
have nerves of steel to have snapped back from engine failures as fast as
you have.
I am always looking for a place to land from takeoff to touchdown. You just
never know when it could happen. Its been 3 year since the last incident and
I still can't get it out of my mind.

Jeff


On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM, joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com <
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com> wrote:

> Guys,
> All the conversation is great on the subject and everyone is a benefactor
> of it. The only thing beyond the knowledge is the ability to process it at
> the right time and the fastest possible way. I have one very real engine out
> on take off and I consider myself very lucky (I often say I am the luckiest
> man I know).  Mark said 38 seconds from 500 feet. Think about just that fact
> alone. Time is not on your side for many of the things you could do. The
> only important things that first make sure you keep the wing flying then
> your decision where your going. There is not any time for changing your
> mind, There is no time for indecisiveness, The only thing anyone has going
> for them is their smarts and how they have planned for this event. I always
> have the event on my mind on take off and have a constantly changing plan
> based on decision points in the take off. BTW- I did intentionally use what
> I thought was min sink speed as soon as I made my decision (about 65 mph).
> My goal was to stay in the air as long as possible, even if that was only 1
> or 2 seconds longer.
> Joe Horton
> 
> Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2SBFqeekTkG1Ms51U6i8Cp4ZBAsnxm4NsdtayC8ZDJzvfOo/
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> engine out take off

[rdrace...@aol.com]

Gary,
I learned how to fly off of a winch tow.  I haven't ever seen one set 
up in the US.  I recently moved to the seattle area, do you know if 
there are any clubs using winches around there?

Todd Thelin


-Original Message-
From: Barry Kruyssen <k...@bigpond.com>
To: 'KRnet' <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 3:31 am
Subject: RE: KR> engine out take off



Joe raises a very important point here "keep the wing flying".

As a glider instructor we teach/practice launch failures a lot.  The 
most
important thing is to get the nose down and maintain a safe speed near 
the
ground (1.5 X stall speed). Winch launches are truly exhilarating as 
you can
have around a 45 degree angle of attack (if you have never done a winch
launch find a club near you and go for the ride of you life, also ask 
for
spin training :-).  During winch launches cable breaks are common and
getting the nose down is life saving.

Before you take off you should know what your options are.  Once you 
get to
your safe flying speed then you can re-evaluate your options.  Just 
remember
that more injuries have occurred from turning back rather than landing 
ahead
(so I'm told).

Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqN3ixDFW8c
And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1K1rQvHA
Or search YouTube for "winch launch glider cable break"

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com



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KR> engine out take off

[rdrace...@aol.com]

Food for thought:  While it's been many years since I flew a single 
engine helicopter, as I recall it took about 12 - 15 seconds to get on 
the ground from 500-700 feet AGL. Of course if you fail to respond 
correctly and manage your rotor speed you will fall faster. Also, when 
your engine quits, you look through the chin bubble and that's where 
you are going to land.  38 seconds is an eternity.  Enjoy the ride.  :)

Todd Thelin
Balad Iraq


-Original Message-
From: joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 1:59 am
Subject: KR> engine out take off



Guys,
All the conversation is great on the subject and everyone is a 
benefactor of it.
The only thing beyond the knowledge is the ability to process it at the 
right
time and the fastest possible way. I have one very real engine out on 
take off
and I consider myself very lucky (I often say I am the luckiest man I 
know).
Mark said 38 seconds from 500 feet. Think about just that fact alone. 
Time is
not on your side for many of the things you could do. The only 
important things
that first make sure you keep the wing flying then your decision where 
your
going. There is not any time for changing your mind, There is no time 
for
indecisiveness, The only thing anyone has going for them is their 
smarts and how
they have planned for this event. I always have the event on my mind on 
take off
and have a constantly changing plan based on decision points in the 
take off.
BTW- I did intentionally use what I thought was min sink speed as soon 
as I made
my decision (about 65 mph). My goal was to stay in the air as long as 
possible,
even if that was only 1 or 2 seconds longer.
Joe Horton

Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2SBFqeekTkG1Ms51U6i8Cp4ZBAsnxm4NsdtayC8ZDJzvfOo/
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KR> engine out take off

[rdrace...@aol.com]

Food for thought:  While it's been many years since I flew a single 
engine helicopter, as I recall it took about 12 - 15 seconds to get on 
the ground from 500-700 feet AGL. Of course if you fail to respond 
correctly and manage your rotor speed you will fall faster. Also, when 
your engine quits, you look through the chin bubble and that's where 
you are going to land.  38 seconds is an eternity.  Enjoy the ride.  :)

Todd Thelin
Balad Iraq


-Original Message-
From: joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 1:59 am
Subject: KR> engine out take off



Guys,
All the conversation is great on the subject and everyone is a 
benefactor of it.
The only thing beyond the knowledge is the ability to process it at the 
right
time and the fastest possible way. I have one very real engine out on 
take off
and I consider myself very lucky (I often say I am the luckiest man I 
know).
Mark said 38 seconds from 500 feet. Think about just that fact alone. 
Time is
not on your side for many of the things you could do. The only 
important things
that first make sure you keep the wing flying then your decision where 
your
going. There is not any time for changing your mind, There is no time 
for
indecisiveness, The only thing anyone has going for them is their 
smarts and how
they have planned for this event. I always have the event on my mind on 
take off
and have a constantly changing plan based on decision points in the 
take off.
BTW- I did intentionally use what I thought was min sink speed as soon 
as I made
my decision (about 65 mph). My goal was to stay in the air as long as 
possible,
even if that was only 1 or 2 seconds longer.
Joe Horton

Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2SBFqeekTkG1Ms51U6i8Cp4ZBAsnxm4NsdtayC8ZDJzvfOo/
___
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to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> engine out take off

[Barry Kruyssen]

Joe raises a very important point here "keep the wing flying".

As a glider instructor we teach/practice launch failures a lot.  The most
important thing is to get the nose down and maintain a safe speed near the
ground (1.5 X stall speed). Winch launches are truly exhilarating as you can
have around a 45 degree angle of attack (if you have never done a winch
launch find a club near you and go for the ride of you life, also ask for
spin training :-).  During winch launches cable breaks are common and
getting the nose down is life saving.

Before you take off you should know what your options are.  Once you get to
your safe flying speed then you can re-evaluate your options.  Just remember
that more injuries have occurred from turning back rather than landing ahead
(so I'm told).

Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqN3ixDFW8c 
And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1K1rQvHA 
Or search YouTube for "winch launch glider cable break"

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 

KR> engine out take off

[Tony King]

I'll always remember what my instructor said to me when I became a bit
stressed after the engine actually died when he cut the throttle at 300 ft
during takeoff on a flight test.  He said "come on, you've flown out of here
plenty of times, you should know where you're going to put it down".  The
choices at that airstrip weren't wonderful, but I realised he was absolutely
right - for most flights that's one decision that should already be made in
the event you suddenly find yourself in a glider.  The only exception I can
see is if it's an airfield you've never seen from the air - and even then
you could (probably should) usually ask someone with local knowledge what
the best option is before you start the engine.

Fortunately, while he was telling me I should know where to go my instructor
was also on the starter button and got the engine restarted so we didn't
have to put it down in a swamp.  I concentrated on achieving and maintaining
best glide speed then turning towards the least treed area.  I must have
done OK because he passed me, but I learned an important lesson that day.
Always be prepared for an engine failure and review your options frequently.

Tony King
Queensland Australia

On 04/02/2009, joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com  wrote:
>
> Guys,
> All the conversation is great on the subject and everyone is a benefactor
> of it. The only thing beyond the knowledge is the ability to process it at
> the right time and the fastest possible way. I have one very real engine out
> on take off and I consider myself very lucky (I often say I am the luckiest
> man I know).  Mark said 38 seconds from 500 feet. Think about just that fact
> alone. Time is not on your side for many of the things you could do. The
> only important things that first make sure you keep the wing flying then
> your decision where your going. There is not any time for changing your
> mind, There is no time for indecisiveness, The only thing anyone has going
> for them is their smarts and how they have planned for this event. I always
> have the event on my mind on take off and have a constantly changing plan
> based on decision points in the take off. BTW- I did intentionally use what
> I thought was min sink speed as soon as I made my decision (about 65 mph).
> My goal was to stay in the air as long as possible, even if that was only 1
> or 2 seconds longer.
> Joe Horton
> 
> Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2SBFqeekTkG1Ms51U6i8Cp4ZBAsnxm4NsdtayC8ZDJzvfOo/
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> engine out take off

[joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com]

Guys,
All the conversation is great on the subject and everyone is a benefactor of 
it. The only thing beyond the knowledge is the ability to process it at the 
right time and the fastest possible way. I have one very real engine out on 
take off and I consider myself very lucky (I often say I am the luckiest man I 
know).  Mark said 38 seconds from 500 feet. Think about just that fact alone. 
Time is not on your side for many of the things you could do. The only 
important things that first make sure you keep the wing flying then your 
decision where your going. There is not any time for changing your mind, There 
is no time for indecisiveness, The only thing anyone has going for them is 
their smarts and how they have planned for this event. I always have the event 
on my mind on take off and have a constantly changing plan based on decision 
points in the take off. BTW- I did intentionally use what I thought was min 
sink speed as soon as I made my decision (about 65 mph). My goal was to stay in 
the air as long as possible, even if that was only 1 or 2 seconds longer. 
Joe Horton

Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2SBFqeekTkG1Ms51U6i8Cp4ZBAsnxm4NsdtayC8ZDJzvfOo/

KR> engine out update

[Joe H Horton]

Guys
I think that I have done and checked every thing  that I can
imagine and all the stuff that you guys thought up. I ran for another
half an hour tonight. Every thing just seemed so sweet. I have been
working hard at being precise with set up. The gaps, dwell, and timing as
well as fine tuning the aero carb a bit. 
As a result right now I have the 3100 running as smooth as it
ever was. Acceleration is smooth quick and responsive. It has gained a
full 100 rpm at take off speed over what I have had the past several
months. 
I am going to fly it in the morning- I could have tonight but
just wanted one more night to mull the whole thing over. 
I know it has nothing to do with it but maybe I'll check the air
in the tires just incase.
Who ever has that Voodoo doll of my plane please put it away now.
Thanks for all the help,
Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

KR> engine out

[Joseph H. Horton]

Guys,
The short and sweet of it is that I have gone over and checked
every piece of engine, fuel and ignition.
Reassembled with all the same parts. It started right up. Flipped back
and forth between the 2 ignitions and no problem found. I ran it for
about 20 min last night.
I will replace everything on ignition #2 tonight (condenser,
points, wire, and coil) the other change that I am going to make is in
the ignition switching to a switch that instead of being on #1 or #2  is
a switch that will be #1- both- #2. This would allow both for take off
and landing.
   Any and all comments 
Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

KR> engine out

[Kenneth Wiltrout]

Joe did you have it running for a long time static ( idling ) on the ground 
before take off. Before I directed a blast tube at the gasolater early on 
which corrected the engine cutting out after landing and a long taxi on a 
hot day. What would happen is after landing the engine temps would come back 
up and when I applied throttle to speed up the taxi it would burp fart and 
carry on, after the blast tube that was no longer an issue. This was only an 
issue on the hottest of days 90 and above.


Kenny




- Original Message - 
From: "Joseph H. Horton" <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
To: <corvaircr...@mylist.net>; <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: KR> engine out


> Guys,
>The short and sweet of it is that I have gone over and checked
> every piece of engine, fuel and ignition.
> Reassembled with all the same parts. It started right up. Flipped back
> and forth between the 2 ignitions and no problem found. I ran it for
> about 20 min last night.
>I will replace everything on ignition #2 tonight (condenser,
> points, wire, and coil) the other change that I am going to make is in
> the ignition switching to a switch that instead of being on #1 or #2  is
> a switch that will be #1- both- #2. This would allow both for take off
> and landing.
>   Any and all comments
> Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
> joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/386 - Release Date: 7/12/2006
>
> 

KR> engine out

[Joseph H. Horton]

I have a housing and a blast tube around the gascolator and the coils
Joe 
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:51:42 -0400 "Kenneth Wiltrout"
<kwiltrout1...@verizon.net> writes:
> Joe did you have it running for a long time static ( idling ) on the 
> ground 
> before take off. Before I directed a blast tube at the gasolater 
> early on 
> which corrected the engine cutting out after landing and a long taxi 
> on a 
> hot day. What would happen is after landing the engine temps would 
> come back 
> up and when I applied throttle to speed up the taxi it would burp 
> fart and 
> carry on, after the blast tube that was no longer an issue. This was 
> only an 
> issue on the hottest of days 90 and above.
> 
> 
> Kenny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Joseph H. Horton" <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
> To: <corvaircr...@mylist.net>; <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:30 AM
> Subject: KR> engine out
> 
> 
> > Guys,
> >The short and sweet of it is that I have gone over and 
> checked
> > every piece of engine, fuel and ignition.
> > Reassembled with all the same parts. It started right up. Flipped 
> back
> > and forth between the 2 ignitions and no problem found. I ran it 
> for
> > about 20 min last night.
> >I will replace everything on ignition #2 tonight 
> (condenser,
> > points, wire, and coil) the other change that I am going to make 
> is in
> > the ignition switching to a switch that instead of being on #1 or 
> #2  is
> > a switch that will be #1- both- #2. This would allow both for take 
> off
> > and landing.
> >   Any and all comments
> > Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
> > joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to 
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/386 - Release Date: 
> 7/12/2006
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 


Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

KR> engine out

[Kenneth Wiltrout]

10/4--FYI Myerstown will have a RC jet modelers rally on 
8/4--8/6 the airport will be closed 9-12 ea day.
This is a pretty big deal.
Ken



- Original Message - 
From: "Joseph H. Horton" <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: KR> engine out


>I have a housing and a blast tube around the gascolator and the coils
> Joe
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:51:42 -0400 "Kenneth Wiltrout"
> <kwiltrout1...@verizon.net> writes:
>> Joe did you have it running for a long time static ( idling ) on the
>> ground
>> before take off. Before I directed a blast tube at the gasolater
>> early on
>> which corrected the engine cutting out after landing and a long taxi
>> on a
>> hot day. What would happen is after landing the engine temps would
>> come back
>> up and when I applied throttle to speed up the taxi it would burp
>> fart and
>> carry on, after the blast tube that was no longer an issue. This was
>> only an
>> issue on the hottest of days 90 and above.
>>
>>
>> Kenny
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joseph H. Horton" <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com>
>> To: <corvaircr...@mylist.net>; <kr...@mylist.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:30 AM
>> Subject: KR> engine out
>>
>>
>> > Guys,
>> >The short and sweet of it is that I have gone over and
>> checked
>> > every piece of engine, fuel and ignition.
>> > Reassembled with all the same parts. It started right up. Flipped
>> back
>> > and forth between the 2 ignitions and no problem found. I ran it
>> for
>> > about 20 min last night.
>> >I will replace everything on ignition #2 tonight
>> (condenser,
>> > points, wire, and coil) the other change that I am going to make
>> is in
>> > the ignition switching to a switch that instead of being on #1 or
>> #2  is
>> > a switch that will be #1- both- #2. This would allow both for take
>> off
>> > and landing.
>> >   Any and all comments
>> > Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
>> > joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> >
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/386 - Release Date:
>> 7/12/2006
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>
>
> Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
> joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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>
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> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006
>
> 

KR> engine out

[ifly...@aol.com]

Hey Joe - good to hear the engine ran fine.  My guesstrash in the  points 
or maybe a hot coil - next tiem (hopefully not) check your secondary  coil.   
On testing I once had the A side not work and found dirt on  the points - 
cleaned them and was back in business.  Fly light the first  few times (better 
climb and all that)  and plan emergency landing procedure  to get confidence 
back in your system.  I have no doubt youll be  fine.   Bill