Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck
Thanks Chris ... Bob Russell Winnipeg Creative Wood Design 3027 Roblin Blvd. Wpg. Mb. R3R 0B8 204-981-0762 - Original Message - From: Chris Gardiner via KRnet To: KRnet Cc: Chris Gardiner Sent: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 20:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck Bob, I have flaps and the rear of my seat is just 1/2” or so off the plywood floor , at the lowest point. The RR canvas sling seat , I use , is hung on an aluminum tube on Adel clamps at the rear spar. The seat cushion is 2” astronaut memory foam that is quite comfortable. I’ll try to photograph it tomorrow and sent a few pics. My canopy is totally stock height. Regards Chris Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Mar 30, 2019, at 7:15 PM, Robert Russell via KRnet > wrote: > > > > >> +++ > > Bob, > > I wouldn't worry about the taller canopy affecting airflow over the > tail. My KR is longer but I have a rather tall canopy and standard tail > surfaces, no problem. > > Hi Larry; > Thanks for the info; > > I was out at my hangar today and took a really good look at the seat height > and discovered that the back of the seat was about 1.5 inches above the top > of the rear spar. I think it had been reworked by someone at some point > because it looks like it was originally located close to the bottom of the > rear spar. I believe it was raised to accommodate the torque tube for the > flaps which appear to have been added after the initial build. > > I removed the seat and did a modification to the fastening system for it and > and to the seat itself. It looks like I can lower it about 2 inches, maybe > a bit more. so that will help. > > I have been looking on the KrNet at some of the builds trying to find others > who have flaps to see how high their seat is off the bottom at the rear spar > but am having trouble finding pictures of that assembly. I know there are > quite a few guys who have flaps and I thought there may be a better way to > set up the linkage that would allow me to lower the seat even more. That > would save having to raise the turtle deck. > > Anyway, if you or anyone else can direct me to pictures of that assembly that > others are using that would be helpful. Also, those with flaps, how high is > the rear of your seat off the bottom of the rear spar? > > All in all it was great to spend some time working on the airplane even > though it was only +1 C today. I am kind of regretting that I am going to be > away for two weeks now that I have the building bug . > > As always, thanks in advance to all. > Bob R > Winnipeg > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck
Bob, I have flaps and the rear of my seat is just 1/2” or so off the plywood floor , at the lowest point. The RR canvas sling seat , I use , is hung on an aluminum tube on Adel clamps at the rear spar. The seat cushion is 2” astronaut memory foam that is quite comfortable. I’ll try to photograph it tomorrow and sent a few pics. My canopy is totally stock height. Regards Chris Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Mar 30, 2019, at 7:15 PM, Robert Russell via KRnet > wrote: > > > > >> +++ > > Bob, > > I wouldn't worry about the taller canopy affecting airflow over the > tail. My KR is longer but I have a rather tall canopy and standard tail > surfaces, no problem. > > Hi Larry; > Thanks for the info; > > I was out at my hangar today and took a really good look at the seat height > and discovered that the back of the seat was about 1.5 inches above the top > of the rear spar. I think it had been reworked by someone at some point > because it looks like it was originally located close to the bottom of the > rear spar. I believe it was raised to accommodate the torque tube for the > flaps which appear to have been added after the initial build. > > I removed the seat and did a modification to the fastening system for it and > and to the seat itself. It looks like I can lower it about 2 inches, maybe > a bit more. so that will help. > > I have been looking on the KrNet at some of the builds trying to find others > who have flaps to see how high their seat is off the bottom at the rear spar > but am having trouble finding pictures of that assembly. I know there are > quite a few guys who have flaps and I thought there may be a better way to > set up the linkage that would allow me to lower the seat even more. That > would save having to raise the turtle deck. > > Anyway, if you or anyone else can direct me to pictures of that assembly that > others are using that would be helpful. Also, those with flaps, how high is > the rear of your seat off the bottom of the rear spar? > > All in all it was great to spend some time working on the airplane even > though it was only +1 C today. I am kind of regretting that I am going to be > away for two weeks now that I have the building bug . > > As always, thanks in advance to all. > Bob R > Winnipeg > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck
I had flaps on my KR and if I did it over again I would’ve never put them on. Put the speed break underneath like some guys have done. The flap pretty much does nothing they’re so small. I test flew five KR’s back in the day they all had flaps and then none of them did anything to speak of. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 30, 2019, at 6:15 PM, Robert Russell via KRnet > wrote: > > > > >> +++ > > Bob, > > I wouldn't worry about the taller canopy affecting airflow over the > tail. My KR is longer but I have a rather tall canopy and standard tail > surfaces, no problem. > > Hi Larry; > Thanks for the info; > > I was out at my hangar today and took a really good look at the seat height > and discovered that the back of the seat was about 1.5 inches above the top > of the rear spar. I think it had been reworked by someone at some point > because it looks like it was originally located close to the bottom of the > rear spar. I believe it was raised to accommodate the torque tube for the > flaps which appear to have been added after the initial build. > > I removed the seat and did a modification to the fastening system for it and > and to the seat itself. It looks like I can lower it about 2 inches, maybe > a bit more. so that will help. > > I have been looking on the KrNet at some of the builds trying to find others > who have flaps to see how high their seat is off the bottom at the rear spar > but am having trouble finding pictures of that assembly. I know there are > quite a few guys who have flaps and I thought there may be a better way to > set up the linkage that would allow me to lower the seat even more. That > would save having to raise the turtle deck. > > Anyway, if you or anyone else can direct me to pictures of that assembly that > others are using that would be helpful. Also, those with flaps, how high is > the rear of your seat off the bottom of the rear spar? > > All in all it was great to spend some time working on the airplane even > though it was only +1 C today. I am kind of regretting that I am going to be > away for two weeks now that I have the building bug . > > As always, thanks in advance to all. > Bob R > Winnipeg > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck
> +++ Bob, I wouldn't worry about the taller canopy affecting airflow over the tail. My KR is longer but I have a rather tall canopy and standard tail surfaces, no problem. Hi Larry; Thanks for the info; I was out at my hangar today and took a really good look at the seat height and discovered that the back of the seat was about 1.5 inches above the top of the rear spar. I think it had been reworked by someone at some point because it looks like it was originally located close to the bottom of the rear spar. I believe it was raised to accommodate the torque tube for the flaps which appear to have been added after the initial build. I removed the seat and did a modification to the fastening system for it and and to the seat itself. It looks like I can lower it about 2 inches, maybe a bit more. so that will help. I have been looking on the KrNet at some of the builds trying to find others who have flaps to see how high their seat is off the bottom at the rear spar but am having trouble finding pictures of that assembly. I know there are quite a few guys who have flaps and I thought there may be a better way to set up the linkage that would allow me to lower the seat even more. That would save having to raise the turtle deck. Anyway, if you or anyone else can direct me to pictures of that assembly that others are using that would be helpful. Also, those with flaps, how high is the rear of your seat off the bottom of the rear spar? All in all it was great to spend some time working on the airplane even though it was only +1 C today. I am kind of regretting that I am going to be away for two weeks now that I have the building bug . As always, thanks in advance to all. Bob R Winnipeg ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
Re: KR> canopy and turtledeck
What I am wondering is, if I raise the turtledeck and canopy, fairng in the area between the front deck and canopy frame to streamline and be pleasing to the eye, do I have to do anything to the rudder and horizontal stabilizer to reflect the added 3-4 inches of height of the turtledeck? I have spare mounts that I could use but that moves engine forward about 2 inches or a bit more. That would allow me to attach a Diehl case and starter. The thing is of course the W+B will be way off. I was wondering if removing the battery from the firewall and mounting it further back in the fuselage would be the best way to try and get the W+B back in place. The other mod is also to swap the header tank ( one large tank) for a small header tank and put tanks in the stub wings as they are open currently, or into the wings themselves. I will be doing the tank mod anyway to prevent the CG moving around as fuel is burned. Bob Russell +++ Bob, I wouldn't worry about the taller canopy affecting airflow over the tail. My KR is longer but I have a rather tall canopy and standard tail surfaces, no problem. I seem to recall a rule of thumb that calls for 1 for 2, one foot of drop for 2 feet of length for the air to stay attached. If I'm wrong on that someone correct me. On the CG, if it is a standard KR, as I think you indicated in your post, worry more about it being tail heavy. Wait till you're nearly done to see if you need something as heavy as a battery moved. Moving more fuel aft to the stub wings will move the CG more rearward. I put all my fuel in the outer wing panels, long and narrow, just 10 inches behind the forward spar. From 25 USG full to empty, my CG moves forward 1 inch. My CG change is not noticeable with fuel burn. The greater the distance, forward or aft, fuel is from ideal CG the greater the CG will change with fuel burn. If your stub wing tanks are between the spars and hold considerable fuel you'll have to be careful of not being tail heavy on takeoff and then being nose heavy on landing. The CG range of the KR is not that great. Marty Roberts had a header tank and wing tanks and would pump from the wing tanks to the header in flight. On his way to the Rough River Gathering in 1990 his pump failed and as he burned the header down the KR kept getting more tail heavy. He indicated it was starting to get worrisome by the time he arrived. Try to consider all the scenarios when making changes. For example: I have wing tanks only, no engine driven fuel pump, two electric fuel pumps. What happens if I lose my electrical buss? Glide mode. I installed a small 4 AH backup battery, separate switches, ckt breaker, etc. and it saved my bacon at 10 hours in to testing. A flip of the switch kept the engine running. Larry Flesner ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
KR> canopy and turtledeck
Hi All; I know there has been some discussion on this previously and I did look in the archives. I found some info but just want to clarify a couple of things. I was worried about the canopy height on one of my projects and decided to measure the height on both projects I have. On Kr ... C -GSJS which is plans built and very true to the original concept, I have 17.5 inches from the seat back ( longeron height) to the bottom of the turtledeck. On Kr # 2 that same measurement is only 14 inches so no wonder my head hits the canopy. I was planning on making the turtledeck removable on this one anyway so am working on the best method to get a straight ,clean cut along the longeron and will follow the fastening methods used by a few of the guys who have removable decks. What I am wondering is, if I raise the turtledeck and canopy, fairng in the area between the front deck and canopy frame to streamline and be pleasing to the eye, do I have to do anything to the rudder and horizontal stabilizer to reflect the added 3-4 inches of height of the turtledeck? That is to say, will the added height interfere with the airflow over those surfaces? I also intend to make the HS wider and leave the elevator the same as it is now so if I have to do anything else, now is the time. The weather is getting a bit better up here in Canada and I am determined to get some progress made on both of these KRs. The other thing I am curious for feedback on is this. C-GSJS as I said is true to the original and has no starter. I would feel better if I were to add one to it. The magneto is fastened by way of the original X type of bracket and I don't think there is a way to put a starter in as it is close to the firewall.. 6.5 inches firewall to front of engine mount. I have spare mounts that I could use but that moves engine forward about 2 inches or a bit more. That would allow me to attach a Diehl case and starter. The thing is of course the W+B will be way off. I was wondering if removing the battery from the firewall and mounting it further back in the fuselage would be the best way to try and get the W+B back in place. The other mod is also to swap the header tank ( one large tank) for a small header tank and put tanks in the stub wings as they are open currently, or into the wings themselves. I will be doing the tank mod anyway to prevent the CG moving around as fuel is burned. I have been doing a lot of epoxy work on tables that I build and am pretty comfortable with the West system now so want to get on these. As always, the expertise and advice of those on this KrNet is always appreciated and sought after. Bob Russell Winnipeg Creative Wood Design 3027 Roblin Blvd. Wpg. Mb. R3R 0B8 204-981-0762 ___ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
I was able to get the SAE 95% Oscar template in a KR with "stock" canopy height (17.875 inches above the top longeron)and still have 1 inch of clearance to the belly skin. Oscar is a 95% male legs & upper torso. --- Brian Kraut wrote: > I would be too afraid to have someone put a bubble > level on my head and find out how unlevel I really > am! > > ---Original Message--- > From: larry flesner > Sent: 08/13/03 10:05 AM > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck > > Have someone > measure your body using a bubble level placed on > your head and > measure to the top of the seat back or longerons for > a reference. > > > > ___ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html = Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cab...@yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
Take off that cowbay hat Oscar! Dave McKelvey, Grapevine, TX dav...@witty.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:02 AM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
>Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike >helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my >head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. >Oscar Zuniga + The KR design lends itself well to modification and there is no reason to build an airplane (KR) that you are not comfortable in or that does not fit the builder. As someone posted eariler (Dan, I believe), build your seat assembly before starting on the turtledeck/canopy/windshield. Have someone measure your body using a bubble level placed on your head and measure to the top of the seat back or longerons for a reference. I used foam and formed plywood bows to build my canopy/gullwing door/turtledeck to the height I knew would work for me. I extended the gullwing door area approx 7.5 inches vertically above the longerons before arcing over to the top at a height I knew would give me the headroom I wanted. I used a 32 gallon trash can lid to give me the arc from side to top and it worked out very well. There are some pictures on Mark Langford's web site if you care to check out the results. As always, your results may vary. Larry ( trying to get the grin off my face while I taxi ) Flesner
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
If I had some photos of My KR online I could direct folks to them.. My canopy is displaced up slightly to allow for extra head clearance. And sweeps down towards the turtledeck. It reminded me of some modern aircraft when I did it, but I can't recall what aircraft or helicopter I modeled it after. Who knows what this will do to in-flight drag, but I've got a reasonable amount of headroom. I'm working on getting my N541RY.com domain back. (I let it expire and someone bought it due to all the KR-net traffic... looks like I should sell stuff on it). I have secured some other N541RY domains last night (n541ry.us). Hopefully I will have my domain up by next week. - Original Message - From: "Oscar Zuniga" List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:01:48 -0500 To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck > Ross indicated that he test-fitted his cockpit and canopy wearing a bike > helmet. The KRs I've sat in (and I'm 5'-10") were snug to the top of my > head just with a headset on. With a helmet- no way. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ___ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
I would be too afraid to have someone put a bubble level on my head and find out how unlevel I really am! ---Original Message--- From: larry flesner Sent: 08/13/03 10:05 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck Have someone measure your body using a bubble level placed on your head and measure to the top of the seat back or longerons for a reference.
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
I am getting ready to build form for my turtledeck but am interested is knowing a couple things. First. I am 5' 8" tall. How high is the average turtledeck for someone my heigth? How to test. I have a Todd's Canopy - very flexible and oversized so trimming is no problem. - a liitle rounder than a dragonfly. Second - Can I move the seat support crossmember cack a couple inches to provide 1) more headroom and 2) a more comfy seat that I can adjust with removable back cushions or adjustable back?
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
At 5'8" I don't think you need to move back any. You should have plenty of headroom and probably will need to have both seat and back cushions in a standard 2S. Just my thoughts. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL ebloc...@earthlink.net - Original Message - From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 6:06 PM Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck I am getting ready to build form for my turtledeck but am interested is knowing a couple things. First. I am 5' 8" tall. How high is the average turtledeck for someone my heigth? How to test. I have a Todd's Canopy - very flexible and oversized so trimming is no problem. - a liitle rounder than a dragonfly. Second - Can I move the seat support crossmember cack a couple inches to provide 1) more headroom and 2) a more comfy seat that I can adjust with removable back cushions or adjustable back? ___ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
I'm 6', but tall in the torso. I am forwarding a reply that might answer your questions about adjusting things. Richard William Clapp wrote: > I am getting ready to build form for my turtledeck but am interested is > knowing a couple things. > First. I am 5' 8" tall. How high is the average turtledeck for someone my > heigth? How to test. I have a Todd's Canopy - very flexible and oversized > so trimming is no problem. - a liitle rounder than a dragonfly. > > Second - Can I move the seat support crossmember cack a couple inches to > provide 1) more headroom and 2) a more comfy seat that I can adjust with > removable back cushions or adjustable back? > ___ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
KR>Canopy and turtledeck
RE: How high is the average turtledeck for someone my heigth? How to test. Are you building a 2 or a 2S? I am 5' 8.5" tall and I had a serious head room problem with my first KR. Are you using a pre-molded Turtle Deck? You should decide what kind of seats you want to build and do that first. Then sit in it and have someone take some measurements with your hat and headset on, just as you will fly it. Don't forget to simulate a seat cushion and seat back cushion if you don't have them. Once you decide how high the turtle deck needs to be, build it to that height. Don't worry about the canopy untill after you get the Turtle deck unless you are going to use the bubble as is, then you may need to compromise. Our site has a lot of information on doing this for a KR2. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC da...@kr-builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org
KR>Canopy and turtledeck Height
>From the book "Test Flying Your Homebuilt" by Vaughn Askew[sp]. He suggests putting your parachute and helmet on and sitting in a mock up of the cockpit. What I did was use cardboard to cut bulkhead templates and wear a bike helmet and sit on a cushon. Then I marked where the canopy top was, and worked from there. >From cardboard, I made panelboard bulkheads, and eventually one or two plywood bulkheads. I also sat in the cockput and taped cardboard to the firewall to simulate a cowling, and figured out how high I wanted my instrument panel. The aft bulkheads were clamped in place with "C" clamps and I foamed up my entire aft deck until I liked what I had... then I glassed it. Thats how I did it... your mileage may vary. -- Ross (N541RY -- not yet flying) - Original Message - From: "William Clapp" List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:06:38 -0400 To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Canopy and turtledeck > I am getting ready to build form for my turtledeck but am interested is > knowing a couple things. > First. I am 5' 8" tall. How high is the average turtledeck for someone my > heigth? How to test. I have a Todd's Canopy - very flexible and oversized > so trimming is no problem. - a liitle rounder than a dragonfly. > > Second - Can I move the seat support crossmember cack a couple inches to > provide 1) more headroom and 2) a more comfy seat that I can adjust with > removable back cushions or adjustable back? > ___ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze
