Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Michael Quinn via KRnet]

This, just in!

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/faa-grants-extension-to-mosaic-comment-period?utm_source=ehotline_231005&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=youngeagles_2023&mkt_tok=OTEwLVNFVS0wNzMAAAGOoLoYu0E8a4vMUNC3iXcslAV2s8v1QLjwfvDlQZvjsRojMCK3u-u-ZusFWZXellhLhajR8pJsiEewzxK_n1oMpOq2WT2yFifee4jM53owgvLzFQ

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: KRnet  on behalf of tommy via KRnet 

Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 5:14:11 PM
To: Rene Ffrench via KRnet 
Cc: tommy 
Subject: Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

HI here i wht i as referring to
"""
A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use
of lift-enhancing devices (VS1
) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated
takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity
"""

On 10/5/2023 8:57 AM, Rene Ffrench via KRnet wrote:
> Hi KR Guys,
>
> I so enjoy these conversations.
>
> Concerning the Stall speed reduction required for existing KRs to fit
> MOSAIC,
>
> I suggest a simple belly board that could be added to all non-flap
> equipped KRs.  I put one on my first KR and it helped a ton.
>
> Rene Ffrench - Austin
> N202LP and N44774
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, 6:58 PM Larry Flesner via KRnet
> mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>> wrote:
>
> __
>
>
>
>>
>> We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If
>> it is, I expect it to look radically different from this current
>> proposed state (can read more here):
>>
>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aopa.org%2Fnews-and-media%2Fall-news%2F2023%2Fjuly%2F25%2Fmosaic-proposed-rule-published&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf75823973fff496e2b2f08dbc5e80b97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638321372725562584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BPbDhDJzNBeBM9ZgnRdwvcpahh0nGLQgxrV3h%2FD%2BcVs%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published>
>>  
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aopa.org%2Fnews-and-media%2Fall-news%2F2023%2Fjuly%2F25%2Fmosaic-proposed-rule-published&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf75823973fff496e2b2f08dbc5e80b97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638321372725562584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BPbDhDJzNBeBM9ZgnRdwvcpahh0nGLQgxrV3h%2FD%2BcVs%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>
>
> I forgot I had this.
>
> 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eaa.org%2Feaa%2Fnews-and-publications%2Feaa-news-and-aviation-news%2Fnews%2F-%2Fmedia%2F1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf75823973fff496e2b2f08dbc5e80b97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638321372725562584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AGs6NAhnabbSYipZBSnhNQrtnI%2BFJ6lmjGIEgv3hnRs%3D&reserved=0<https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx>
>  
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eaa.org%2Feaa%2Fnews-and-publications%2Feaa-news-and-aviation-news%2Fnews%2F-%2Fmedia%2F1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf75823973fff496e2b2f08dbc5e80b97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638321372725562584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AGs6NAhnabbSYipZBSnhNQrtnI%2BFJ6lmjGIEgv3hnRs%3D&reserved=0<https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx>>
>
> Larry Flesner
>
> --
> KRnet mailing list
> KRnet@list.krnet.org <mailto:KRnet@list.krnet.org>
> 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.krnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fkrnet&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf75823973fff496e2b2f08dbc5e80b97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638321372725562584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sAJRyaesp53ooZNkMxDOs57JMPnphWkz5md2xr1pbmQ%3D&reserved=0<https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet>
> 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protecti

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[patrick]

45kts is the current reg.  The MOSAIC proposal raises it to 54kts VS1.

On 2023-10-05 17:14, tommy via KRnet wrote:

HI here i wht i as referring to
"""
A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use 
of lift-enhancing devices (VS1
) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated 
takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity

"""

--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[tommy via KRnet]

HI here i wht i as referring to
"""
A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use 
of lift-enhancing devices (VS1
) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated 
takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity

"""

On 10/5/2023 8:57 AM, Rene Ffrench via KRnet wrote:

Hi KR Guys,

I so enjoy these conversations.

Concerning the Stall speed reduction required for existing KRs to fit 
MOSAIC,


I suggest a simple belly board that could be added to all non-flap 
equipped KRs.  I put one on my first KR and it helped a ton.


Rene Ffrench - Austin
N202LP and N44774

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, 6:58 PM Larry Flesner via KRnet 
mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>> wrote:


__





We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If
it is, I expect it to look radically different from this current
proposed state (can read more here):


https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published
 







I forgot I had this.


https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx
 


Larry Flesner

-- 
KRnet mailing list

KRnet@list.krnet.org 
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet




--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[patrick]

The proposed MOSAIC stall speed requirement is "clean" stall speed(VS1).

On 2023-10-05 11:57, Rene Ffrench via KRnet wrote:

Hi KR Guys,

I so enjoy these conversations.

Concerning the Stall speed reduction required for existing KRs to fit
MOSAIC,

I suggest a simple belly board that could be added to all non-flap
equipped KRs.  I put one on my first KR and it helped a ton.


--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[tommy via KRnet]

HI  I thought I read a while back the plane had to be in clean 
configuration not using flap etc..got to look for it again but it 
was describing for light sport   tom


On 10/5/2023 8:57 AM, Rene Ffrench via KRnet wrote:

Hi KR Guys,

I so enjoy these conversations.

Concerning the Stall speed reduction required for existing KRs to fit 
MOSAIC,


I suggest a simple belly board that could be added to all non-flap 
equipped KRs.  I put one on my first KR and it helped a ton.


Rene Ffrench - Austin
N202LP and N44774

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, 6:58 PM Larry Flesner via KRnet 
mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>> wrote:


__





We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If
it is, I expect it to look radically different from this current
proposed state (can read more here):


https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published
 







I forgot I had this.


https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx
 


Larry Flesner

-- 
KRnet mailing list

KRnet@list.krnet.org 
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet




--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Rene Ffrench via KRnet]

Hi KR Guys,

I so enjoy these conversations.

Concerning the Stall speed reduction required for existing KRs to fit
MOSAIC,

I suggest a simple belly board that could be added to all non-flap equipped
KRs.  I put one on my first KR and it helped a ton.

Rene Ffrench - Austin
N202LP and N44774

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, 6:58 PM Larry Flesner via KRnet 
wrote:

>
>
>
> We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If it is, I
> expect it to look radically different from this current proposed state (can
> read more here):
>
>
> https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published
>
>
> 
>
>
> I forgot I had this.
>
>
> https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx
>
> Larry Flesner
> --
> KRnet mailing list
> KRnet@list.krnet.org
> https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet
>
-- 
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If it 
is, I expect it to look radically different from this current proposed 
state (can read more here):


https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published





I forgot I had this.

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/-/media/1eca9239f9d24bbb9d72f29ca284dc0a.ashx

Larry Flesner
-- 
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Michael Quinn via KRnet]

UNFORTUNATELY, Mosaic has been in the proposal state since 2018 (probably 
earlier - but that was the first FAA announcement that I went to at tripple 
tree (SC01).  Back then it was written to mimic the canadian rules (making 
certified aircraft semi experimental)

It is my understanding that it is in a "propose your changes" state... Which I 
know with the govt. will help delay it 🙁

We were told at OSH that it should be "live" come OSH 2024...  If it is, I 
expect it to look radically different from this current proposed state (can 
read more here):

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published

M.
[https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Images/AOPA-Main/News-and-Media/2023/Jul/AirVenture/23_AirVenture_0722_0114F.jpg]<https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published>
MOSAIC proposed rule 
published<https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/july/25/mosaic-proposed-rule-published>
The FAA's rulemaking proposal to modernize aircraft certification stands to 
change the aviation landscape more dramatically than its name might suggest.
www.aopa.org


From: KRnet  on behalf of Larry Flesner via KRnet 

Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 6:55 PM
To: ROBERT HARTMAIER ; KRnet 
Cc: Larry Flesner 
Subject: Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction


On 10/4/2023 4:28 PM, ROBERT HARTMAIER wrote:
> Thanks Larry, I forgot about the stall speed part of the reg.  I guess one 
> would have to redesign the wing to add flaps in order to overcome that hurdle.



My guess is the regulations will change before you could modify an
existing KR or build a new KR to meet the old regulations.  The fact
that it is even proposed is a good indication it will become law.

Larry Flesner

--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.krnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fkrnet&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf8412e53dcee4f74dfdf08dbc52d1590%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638320569742832247%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G7twHfkn7rA1pTN0tqx2Y9GVigxnH9afN1RtB1cgXIU%3D&reserved=0<https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet>
-- 
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

On 10/4/2023 4:28 PM, ROBERT HARTMAIER wrote:

Thanks Larry, I forgot about the stall speed part of the reg.  I guess one 
would have to redesign the wing to add flaps in order to overcome that hurdle.




My guess is the regulations will change before you could modify an 
existing KR or build a new KR to meet the old regulations.  The fact 
that it is even proposed is a good indication it will become law.


Larry Flesner

--
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[Adam Deem via KRnet]

The current light sport rules allows one to fly with a valid drivers’ license 
or 3d class medical as the fulfillment of the medical requirement.  A pilot 
needs to hold at least a Sport Pilot license to fly the aircraft.  A summary of 
current requirements are listed here at AOPA or found in FAR Part 61 

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot

The proposed and likely to be approved MOSAIC rules will significantly expand 
the types of aircraft a licensed Sport Pilot may fly and include most typical 
GA aircraft but with limitation on operations and passengers carried, similar 
to the old Recreational Pilot license.  It will also expand the performance 
envelope for light sport which will allow for the inclusion of current EU 
“Ultralight” aircraft types of which there are some great designs like the 
Shark UL & Blackwing (similar performance to KR) and other speedy little Rotax 
powered retractable gear aircraft which should significantly expand 
availability of fun little factory built aircraft.

Blue skies,
Adam Deem

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 5:29 PM, ROBERT HARTMAIER via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Larry, I forgot about the stall speed part of the reg.  I guess one 
> would have to redesign the wing to add flaps in order to overcome that hurdle.
>> On 10/04/2023 5:03 PM EDT Larry Flesner via KRnet  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/4/2023 3:58 PM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:
>>> 
>>> If the proposed regulations pass in the next 12 months or so the KR 
>>> will fall in to the Light Sport category.  This may help to get some 
>>> KRs  back in to the air but I'm guessing the change will have little 
>>> effect.
>>> 
>>> Larry Flesner
>>> 
>> ++
>> 
>> I may have mis-stated the change to "Light Sport" regulations. The 
>> change is called something like "Mosaic" or something that will allow 
>> pilots to fly considerably heavier and faster aircraft with just a 
>> drivers license.  I'm sure someone will post the correct info.
>> 
>> Larry Flesner
>> 
>> -- 
>> KRnet mailing list
>> KRnet@list.krnet.org
>> https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet
> -- 
> KRnet mailing list
> KRnet@list.krnet.org
> https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet
-- 
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet

Re: KRnet> KR light sport correction

[ROBERT HARTMAIER via KRnet]

Thanks Larry, I forgot about the stall speed part of the reg.  I guess one 
would have to redesign the wing to add flaps in order to overcome that hurdle.
> On 10/04/2023 5:03 PM EDT Larry Flesner via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> On 10/4/2023 3:58 PM, Larry Flesner via KRnet wrote:
> >
> > If the proposed regulations pass in the next 12 months or so the KR 
> > will fall in to the Light Sport category.  This may help to get some 
> > KRs  back in to the air but I'm guessing the change will have little 
> > effect.
> >
> > Larry Flesner
> >
> ++
> 
> I may have mis-stated the change to "Light Sport" regulations. The 
> change is called something like "Mosaic" or something that will allow 
> pilots to fly considerably heavier and faster aircraft with just a 
> drivers license.  I'm sure someone will post the correct info.
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> -- 
> KRnet mailing list
> KRnet@list.krnet.org
> https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet
-- 
KRnet mailing list
KRnet@list.krnet.org
https://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet