Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Niklas,

This has often been debated but I don't think anything ever happened. 
The main issue with any such tool is that unless it links to the unique 
UI string, it's not much help because most of the time there are like 50 
incidences of  and to make matters worse, we have _Edit and  
type hotkeys and worse still, if I search for Edit and the string is 
E, it won't get found.


The summary of previous discussions is that if a locale does not assign 
hotkeys, the system does it automatically - which no one tells you when 
you start out, and while I'd prefer that for our locale, I don't have 
the resources to strip all existing hotkeys. Other than that, there are 
the usual problems of not knowing the scope (i.e. what other UI strings 
are sharing the menu with said string) and restricted letter sets 
(Gaelic has 18 letters, fewer if you ignore letters with descenders...)


Ideally I think we'd need a tool which during localization flags 
"Duplicated hotkey in menu scope" + list of strings in scope. And/or a 
tool that allows locales which do not want to assign hotkeys manually to 
strip them all from the existing files so the system can automatically 
deal with the issue.


Michael

Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 10:01:

After thinking a bit about it I instead decided to write a small tool in
basic that uses the accessibility interfaces to traverse the menus and
print a report in Writer. This makes it possible to run from Linux, Windows
and even on Mac. You'll find some more information on how to use the tool
in the document below (also containing the relevant macros).


--
*Akerbeltz *
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Niklas Johansson]

Hi Michael

Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should be
set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which will
list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.

Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.

/Niklas

2015-09-24 11:29 GMT+02:00 Michael Bauer :

> Hi Niklas,
>
> This has often been debated but I don't think anything ever happened. The
> main issue with any such tool is that unless it links to the unique UI
> string, it's not much help because most of the time there are like 50
> incidences of  and to make matters worse, we have _Edit and  type
> hotkeys and worse still, if I search for Edit and the string is E, it
> won't get found.
>
> The summary of previous discussions is that if a locale does not assign
> hotkeys, the system does it automatically - which no one tells you when you
> start out, and while I'd prefer that for our locale, I don't have the
> resources to strip all existing hotkeys. Other than that, there are the
> usual problems of not knowing the scope (i.e. what other UI strings are
> sharing the menu with said string) and restricted letter sets (Gaelic has
> 18 letters, fewer if you ignore letters with descenders...)
>
> Ideally I think we'd need a tool which during localization flags
> "Duplicated hotkey in menu scope" + list of strings in scope. And/or a tool
> that allows locales which do not want to assign hotkeys manually to strip
> them all from the existing files so the system can automatically deal with
> the issue.
>
> Michael
>
> Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 10:01:
>
> After thinking a bit about it I instead decided to write a small tool in
>> basic that uses the accessibility interfaces to traverse the menus and
>> print a report in Writer. This makes it possible to run from Linux,
>> Windows
>> and even on Mac. You'll find some more information on how to use the tool
>> in the document below (also containing the relevant macros).
>>
>
> --
> *Akerbeltz *
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>
> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
>  
>
> --
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[libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Niklas Johansson]

Hi

During the community meetings of the LibreOffice conference there was a
discussion of accelerator keys in menus and how duplicate use of the same
accelerator key causes accessibility issues. It can be hard when
translating to know if a string is duplicated in a menu or not so I noted
that there are some accessibility checkers that check the menus of programs
for such issues. And promised to send a note here stating what checkers
does.

After thinking a bit about it I instead decided to write a small tool in
basic that uses the accessibility interfaces to traverse the menus and
print a report in Writer. This makes it possible to run from Linux, Windows
and even on Mac. You'll find some more information on how to use the tool
in the document below (also containing the relevant macros).

For the time being you can download the macros from:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8e703zr5bxny27n/AcceleratorKeyChecker.odt?dl=1

There are some issues such as the tool can't reach submenus that has been
deactivated. But for now this will probably do for most of you.

Regards,
/Niklas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Michael Bauer]

I was not aware that it had been implemented, that's good news :)

If you could point me at a page that explains how to KeyID, that would 
be great.


Michael

Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 12:39:

Hi Michael

Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should be
set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which will
list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.

Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.

/Niklas


--
*Akerbeltz *
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Michael Bauer]

Thank you!

Michael

Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 13:42:

A short description of how to use KeyID can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language#KeyID

The dialy builds of LibreOffice should contain the KeyID version (has the
language code qtz)
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/

/Niklas


--
*Akerbeltz *
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Baurzhan Muftakhidinov]

Well done, Niklas!
Although It looks like for Cyrillic locales accelerators are not being put
to result correctly, all I see is little rectangles instead of actual
accellerator letters.
Latin letters are being processed correctly.

Thanks,

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Niklas Johansson
 wrote:
> Hi Michael
>
> Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
> document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should be
> set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which will
> list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
> Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
> there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.
>
> Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.
>
> /Niklas
>
> 2015-09-24 11:29 GMT+02:00 Michael Bauer :
>
>> Hi Niklas,
>>
>> This has often been debated but I don't think anything ever happened. The
>> main issue with any such tool is that unless it links to the unique UI
>> string, it's not much help because most of the time there are like 50
>> incidences of  and to make matters worse, we have _Edit and  type
>> hotkeys and worse still, if I search for Edit and the string is E, it
>> won't get found.
>>
>> The summary of previous discussions is that if a locale does not assign
>> hotkeys, the system does it automatically - which no one tells you when you
>> start out, and while I'd prefer that for our locale, I don't have the
>> resources to strip all existing hotkeys. Other than that, there are the
>> usual problems of not knowing the scope (i.e. what other UI strings are
>> sharing the menu with said string) and restricted letter sets (Gaelic has
>> 18 letters, fewer if you ignore letters with descenders...)
>>
>> Ideally I think we'd need a tool which during localization flags
>> "Duplicated hotkey in menu scope" + list of strings in scope. And/or a tool
>> that allows locales which do not want to assign hotkeys manually to strip
>> them all from the existing files so the system can automatically deal with
>> the issue.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 10:01:
>>
>> After thinking a bit about it I instead decided to write a small tool in
>>> basic that uses the accessibility interfaces to traverse the menus and
>>> print a report in Writer. This makes it possible to run from Linux,
>>> Windows
>>> and even on Mac. You'll find some more information on how to use the tool
>>> in the document below (also containing the relevant macros).
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Akerbeltz *
>> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
>> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
>> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>>
>> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
>> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
>> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
>>  
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>> deleted
>>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Niklas Johansson]

Hello again

A short description of how to use KeyID can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language#KeyID

The dialy builds of LibreOffice should contain the KeyID version (has the
language code qtz)
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/

/Niklas

2015-09-24 14:25 GMT+02:00 Michael Bauer :

> I was not aware that it had been implemented, that's good news :)
>
> If you could point me at a page that explains how to KeyID, that would be
> great.
>
> Michael
>
> Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 12:39:
>
>> Hi Michael
>>
>> Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
>> document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should
>> be
>> set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which
>> will
>> list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
>> Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
>> there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.
>>
>> Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.
>>
>> /Niklas
>>
>
> --
> *Akerbeltz *
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>
> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
>  
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
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> deleted
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Sérgio Marques]

Hi Niklas

Will this tool work on fresh builds without keyid?

Regards

2015-09-24 12:39 GMT+01:00 Niklas Johansson :

> Hi Michael
>
> Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
> document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should be
> set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which will
> list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
> Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
> there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.
>
> Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.
>
> /Niklas
>
> 2015-09-24 11:29 GMT+02:00 Michael Bauer :
>
> > Hi Niklas,
> >
> > This has often been debated but I don't think anything ever happened. The
> > main issue with any such tool is that unless it links to the unique UI
> > string, it's not much help because most of the time there are like 50
> > incidences of  and to make matters worse, we have _Edit and 
> type
> > hotkeys and worse still, if I search for Edit and the string is E, it
> > won't get found.
> >
> > The summary of previous discussions is that if a locale does not assign
> > hotkeys, the system does it automatically - which no one tells you when
> you
> > start out, and while I'd prefer that for our locale, I don't have the
> > resources to strip all existing hotkeys. Other than that, there are the
> > usual problems of not knowing the scope (i.e. what other UI strings are
> > sharing the menu with said string) and restricted letter sets (Gaelic has
> > 18 letters, fewer if you ignore letters with descenders...)
> >
> > Ideally I think we'd need a tool which during localization flags
> > "Duplicated hotkey in menu scope" + list of strings in scope. And/or a
> tool
> > that allows locales which do not want to assign hotkeys manually to strip
> > them all from the existing files so the system can automatically deal
> with
> > the issue.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 10:01:
> >
> > After thinking a bit about it I instead decided to write a small tool in
> >> basic that uses the accessibility interfaces to traverse the menus and
> >> print a report in Writer. This makes it possible to run from Linux,
> >> Windows
> >> and even on Mac. You'll find some more information on how to use the
> tool
> >> in the document below (also containing the relevant macros).
> >>
> >
> > --
> > *Akerbeltz *
> > Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> > Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> > Facs: +44-141-945 2701
> >
> > *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> > Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> > geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
> 
> >  
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>
> --
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> deleted
>



-- 
Sérgio Marques

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Basic tool to detect duplicate use of accelerator keys in menus

[Rhoslyn Prys]

This is great! Plenty of work to do...

I'm having difficulty getting the KeyID to work, I've identified that 
the necessary files may be:
master~2015-09-23_05.16.23_LibreOfficeDev_5.1.0.0.alpha1_Win_x86_en-US_de_ar_ja_ru_qtz.msi 



and possibly
master~2015-09-23_05.16.23_LibreOfficeDev_5.1.0.0.alpha1_Win_x86_helppack_qtz.msi 
  
and have installed both and followed the instructions: Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages>User Interface.


But I'm only seeing English USA. I'm not seeing KeyID, nor de, ar, ja or ru. 
I'm doing something wrong here.
Any suggestions?
Rhos



Ar 24/09/2015 13:42, ysgrifennodd Niklas Johansson:

Hello again

A short description of how to use KeyID can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language#KeyID

The dialy builds of LibreOffice should contain the KeyID version (has the
language code qtz)
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/

/Niklas

2015-09-24 14:25 GMT+02:00 Michael Bauer :


I was not aware that it had been implemented, that's good news :)

If you could point me at a page that explains how to KeyID, that would be
great.

Michael

Sgrìobh Niklas Johansson na leanas 24/09/2015 aig 12:39:


Hi Michael

Well this is not as big a problem as you make it. Basically you open the
document I sent a link to earlier. The UI language of LibreOffice should
be
set to the language that you want to check. Generate the report, which
will
list all menus and sub-menus and highlight the problematic menu entries.
Save the file and change the UI language to KeyID and reopen the report
there. Now you can easily find the exact string in Pootle.

Let me know if you do not know what KeyID is and how to use it.

/Niklas


--
*Akerbeltz *
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
 

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