Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 22/02/2023 09:20, Mike Saunders wrote: On 21.02.23 18:36, toki wrote: Have branding guidelines for each writing system. That sounds like the best option, with Noto Sans as a fallback that should work in most cases. I was referring to the entire NoTo family, not Noto Sans in specific. By way of example, if there isn't a designated font for content written in, for example, Cherokee, then use NotoSansCherokee-Regular.ttf. That leaves content written in the hundred or so writing systems that NoTo doesn't cover, without a specific font. We can cross that bridge when, we get to it. (My guess is that we'll see a team creating dictionaries, and related tools, before a font for LibO branding is needed.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 21/02/2023 18:44, Cristian Secară wrote: I forgot this: what is the point in keeping something aesthetically pleasing, but restricted to 'Western' Latin languages only ? Depending upon how one counts, between half and two thirds of the languages in current use, that have been reduced to a writing system, use the Latin Writing System. Rephrasing, roughly 1500 languages spoken today, use the Latin writing system. Number two would be Cyrillic, which covers between 10% and 25% of the languages in current use, that have been reduced to a writing system. In third place, it is a toss-up between CJKV and Arabic writing system. In terms of number of speakers of languages that have been reduced to a writing system, the order is: * Latin writing system; * CJKV; * Arabic writing system; * Cyrillic writing system; * Indus Valley writing systems; # Technically, CJKV is ten different writing systems. For selecting fonts, treating them as the same writing system greatly simplifies the process. >even then: year 2010 is somewhat more recent than Stone Age Unicode 6.0 was released in October 2010. It covered 93 writing systems, with just under 100,000 glyphs. Pan-unicode font development is still trying to catch up with that standard. Unicode 15.0 was released in September 2022. It covers 161 writing systems, with just shy of 150,000 glyphs. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 21/02/2023 07:48, Mike Saunders wrote: Not at all, and clearly Vegur is lacking. Let's find a font that works is many more scripts, and adapt the flyers accordingly... Have branding guidelines for each writing system. Each writing system has its own specific font family, with an ugly fall back font family - probably NoTo, simply because it covers more Unicode defined writing systems than any other pan-Unicode font family. There are no pan-unicode font families that look good in every writing system. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 20/02/2023 21:39, Cristian Secară wrote: Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font? Back when Vegar was chosen, the intersection of FLOSS license, and pan-unicode fonts was aesthetically displeasing for every writing system in use. The situation today is aesthetically displeasing in all but one writing system. Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). There is this little thing known as license incompatibility. Not all of the fonts that SIL distributes use the SIL Open Font License. Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages " The options are: * An attractive font that works for one writing system only; * A font that is ugly for every writing system out there; * A plethora of fonts whose only element in common is that each font is attractive for a specific writing system; If you are aware of a font that is as aesthetically pleasing in Miami, as it is in Naxi, and uses a FLOSS license, a plethora of designers want to know about it. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Luganda Localization Project(New)
On 19/02/2021 15:09, Phillip Samuel wrote: Hello everyone, I'm Phillip, and I wish to start a Luganda(Ganda) localization project. Please create a valid, reliable spell checker for Ganda. The last time I had to proofread a document in Ganda, it was an exercise in futility, because the document was an exemplar of bad Ganda spelling compounded by equally bad Ganda grammar, and the existing spell-checkers weren't any better. A functional grammar checker would also be useful. > I don't know how long translating the UI will take, probably a while, It isn't uncommon for a12n projects to take two or three years to produce a beta localisation in the target language. At least a year is spent discussing what new words in the target language should be. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Problems in English text related to statistics
On 05/15/2018 03:44 PM, Milos Sramek wrote: > Are "portray" and "represent" synonyms? Yes, and No. "Portray" implies the totality of the population. "Represent" implies a subset of the population. However, "portray" can imply a subset of a subset of a population. On the other hand, literary aesthetics decrees that words should not be repeated, hence words with similar meanings can be used as synonyms, even when they aren't. Going only by the strings you wrote, I'd suggest replacing everything with "are numerical arguments representing the population (sample)", with the word in parenthesis being included, or excluded, as appropriate. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New language request: PDT "Plautdietsch"
On 12/04/2017 06:48 PM, Eike Rathke wrote: > As the main default locale I'll add pdt-CA How about including pdt-US, and pdt-MX? My perception is that the language is used as much, if not more in the US, and Mexico, as it is in Canada. ### At some point the UI is going to have to be redesigned, because a theoretical 250 countries times 3,000 languages times 212 writing systems is going to be too chaotic for anybody to the language/writing system/country that they are looking for. OTOH, Musk's Tesla is more likely to collide with Russell's Teapot, on its way to Mars, than LibO will have the ability print a document to Moon. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fwd: [Tuxpaint-i18n] Call for translation updates
On 12/04/2017 01:20 PM, Yury Tarasievich wrote: > The idea of handing a kid 'from 3 to 12' something like this is the sole > reason for 'shuddering'. Your shuddering is understandable. However, remember that in the United States, the schools no longer teach students handwriting.(One has to know how to read and write, in order to be accepted into first grade --- the class which historically has taught one how to read and write.) Drawing is classified as "art", and is only taught if their is enough time at the end of the quarter to squeeze it in, and either the teacher, or the parents provide the requisite art materials, at their expense. The school board won't pay for them, because it lacks the funds to do so. As such, if a kid learns to draw on a computer, there are one step ahead of those who failed to learn to draw on a computer. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fonts in "Book" style
On 06/21/2017 05:02 PM, Gabor Kelemen wrote:
> For example the "standard", "regular" and "medium" styles coming from
> font files are all displayed as "Normal" in the UI[2].
They should not be displayed the same. Their weights are different.
("regular" is between 5% and 10% lighter than "normal".)
> On the other hand, I know nothing about the font industry, so I just
> made every unique font style name that came up translatable.
If the fonts are made by professionals, or according to standard
typographical font specifications, then each part of the name of the
font has a specific meaning, and as such, is probably best translated
into the local patois.
jonathon
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New Tumbuka translation
On 02/23/2017 07:29 PM, collins nyirenda wrote: > How would I go about making a Tumbuka translation Do you mean: * Provide the LibreOffice User Interface in Tumbuka? * Translate an existing document into Tumbuka? * Create a Grammar Checker for Tumbuka? * Create a Spelling Checker for Tumbuka? * Providing documentation for LibO in Tumbuka? * Something else? jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: LibreOffice Online translation
On 25/05/2016 23:42, Michael Bauer wrote: > but there is no such thing as "Scottish Gaelic (gd) - Ireland (ie)". Scottish > Gaelic is not an Irish locale. Whilst one has to go back in time, there is a use case for gd-IE that that fails when one uses ga-IE as a workaround. One does have to go further back in time, for pgl-ie-212 to be the required setting. (Gaeilge Ársa in Ireland using the Ogham writing system.) This is where the UI designer has to decide what percentage of the user base can be pissed off, because the UI doesn't support their specific use-case. Do you aim at a minimal 1,000,000 combinations (^1), or the basic core of 275 million combinations (^2), or go to the full 1,188,137,600,000 theoretically possible combinations (^3). ^1: Minimal setup: 1,000 languages, 100 countries, 10 writing systems, no modifier. ^2: Basic Core: 2,500 languages, 110 countries, 100 writing systems, 10 modifiers. ^3: Full: 17,576 languages, 676 countries, 1,000 writing systems, 100 modifiers jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] English Dictionaries Project - Introduction by Marco Pinto
On 03/05/2016 19:14, Kruno wrote: And there is now way any language smaller then English build something like outside some institute or outside funded project of some sort. Please either rephrase that sentence, or write it in your native language. I'm trying to figure out if you mean that English is the only language in which an N-Gram based grammar checker can be created, or if that is the only language for which adequate funding for such a critter can be found. For small languages even having a spell checker is huge. There's quite a When working with evidential grammars, or noun class grammars, spell checking fall apart, because the entire word is rewritten according to the evidential particle, or noun class. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] English Dictionaries Project - Introduction by Marco Pinto
On 03/05/2016 15:51, Kruno wrote: not doubled maintained word lists by multiple maintainers (not knowing each other) will not and can not be resolved. With a central repository for working on dictionaries, it is far easier for two individuals interested in the same dictionary to find each other, than if they are working on two different sites, in different locations. Who's dictionary to include to that single repository, how to merge As a practical matter, a repository that only allows for one dictionary per language, is not viable. At a minimum, you'll have specialized dictionaries. how to merge affix files with different affix classes (that will be a mess). I've seen some tools for automating the creation of affix files. I don't know how well they work, though. This goes back to my claim that spell checking without built-in grammar checking is useless. >Why you think that included dictionary is 'standard' and is better then the other one? Any dictionary project has to include the ability to have the same language in at least two different writing systems --- Braille (^1) and the standard writing system for the language. >The other guy will give up his work? The proposal does not require the other guy to give up his project. I wouldn't be surprised to see the other guy create a more specialized dictionary. * John Doe creates a general purpose dictionary; * Jane Doe creates a name and places dictionary; * John Roe creates a scientific terminology dictionary; * Jane Roe creates a basic words dictionary; Who will hunt all those 'other' guys telling them 'Yo, dude, leave that, do this shit!' As far as existing spell checking and wordlist projects go, nobody is going to tell them to "leave that, do this". What might happen, is that known, existing projects, are offered space, etc in the proposed repository/incubator, but they will stay where they currently are, due to how their workflow operates. How will such a repository resolve competition between two English dictionaries? Since you specifically mentioned English, there currently are versions of English for a dozen locales, plus around half a dozen specialist dictionaries. Most users won't choose the English (OED) variant, because it has too many words in it. Too many words means that words that are wrongly used, get flagged as correct spelled. The "Eye right withe aye pin" phenomena. Nobody can (or should) just declare 'we are building dictionary repository - here use this, not that' just because being in position of power to do that. The proposal does not mandate that only the proposed space/workflow/etc be used. In an ideal world, existing groups would be able to drop their work-product into the repository, with only one change to their workflow --- a bot that automatically uploads their new, verified, approved work product into the repository. Furthermore, this change would occur, if, and only if the existing group wanted to do so. This proposal is about non-technical types being able to _easily_ create viable dictionaries for their specific use-case. It doesn't matter if that use-case is a dictionary in Pondo, or a dictionary of people and places in Bharat, or a dictionary in Moon. The other part of the proposal is that even if the original dictionary creator abandons the dictionary, it can still be maintained, and updated. The third part of the proposal is that whilst it is initially for LibO, the hope is that it becomes the source for dictionaries for FLOSS projects. # Hypothetical situation. One of Kevin Scannell's students decides that what the world needs is a dictionaries in each of the 2,500 languages that have been reduced to a writing system. So said student walks thru Kevin's word lists, and creates a dictionary project for each of the 2,000 languages that Kevin maintains word lists for. A year later, said student graduates, and forgets about their dictionaries. Under the current scenarios, when said student abandons their dictionaries, the only way other people can update them, is by forking them --- assuming that the license allows forking. Under the proposed scenario, if said student creates the dictionaries in the repository, when said student abandons them, other people can still update the dictionaries, which can then be distributed to LibO, etc. I'll grant that were said student to create 2,000+ dictionaries for LibO, it would break the UI. However, as far as the proposal goes, that breakage is irrelevant. use of hunspell features correctly (not simple word lists, but by logic) what this mean? For non-techies, creating a HunSpell dictionary is a non-starter, because they don't understand the vocabulary that it uses. For techies, the technical description is, at best, off-putting. features but those dictionaries who do just word list will continue do just the word list because is purgatory (or hell) to do this right if you
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] XHP Help online to assist translators
On 28/04/2016 18:13, Olivier Hallot wrote: I have set a web site that is able to display the help pages ( I like the idea. The help online has been loaded with the latest master help contents, updated just today. What you see there may be a little in advance of the How frequently will this master list be updated? Perhaps more important, when viewing the page, can you include an indication of when it was last updated and/or which LibO build it is for. Asking for that, because using your example, the following is what is displayed. « Show All /text/smath/01/0306.xhp views; maximum size maximum formula size formulas; maximum size Show All Displays the entire formula in the maximum size possible so that all elements are included. The formula is reduced or enlarged so that all formula elements can be displayed in the work area. The current zoom factor is displayed on the status bar. A selection of available zoom options is accessible through the context menu. The context menu in the work area also contains zoom commands. The zoom commands and icons are only available in Math documents, not for embedded Math objects. » If anybody wants a screen shot, I can provide one, but the text in the quote signs is literally everything displayed on the screen. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [PROPOSAL] New project for dictionaries
On 27/04/2016 23:30, Dennis Roczek wrote: > Do try to get the system running, provide a system (hosted / maintained by TDF) and everybody would use the same system to create new dictionaries Make it easy enough, and every group that is working on reducing a language to writing, will be uploading their word lists here. (If that occurs, then LibO will definitely need to redesign the language selection component.) > libreoffice or whatever) and the maintainer (similar to the Language > Administrator in Pootle) decides if it goes in the dictionary or not. This is where automated tools are great. (I'll ignore issues such as the one with Afrikaans, which didn't contain the word "die" for several years. This is the definite article in Afrikaans, so it was a pretty annoying omission.) > @toki I really hope not that the maintainers do have *NOT* to learn git. > It should be more than an intelligent pootle system. The reason I mentioned GIT, is because there was (operative word _was_) a group of people working on an extension for AOo/LibO to save documents to GIT. The projected end result would be that all the individual would have to know about GIT, was to click on this extension to either save, or retrieve the document from GIT. > looks with the affix files, but we will find somebody who can do it - My impression is that there is a python library that takes word lists, and creates affix files from them. > If the "TDF" and volunteers are able to implement that in a technical way, > Will be a completely different story. Listing the technical requirements for the must-haves and nice-to-haves. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [PROPOSAL] New project for dictionaries
On 26/04/2016 06:08, Rimas Kudelis wrote: I think it may be beneficial to have a central repository to host these dictionaries. If Hunspell does not offer a repository for all languages, and The Document Foundation has the resources to do so, then this is something that would be extremely useful. I don't what resources would be required, but my guess is: * GIT, or something similar, that hosts word lists; * A BuildBot system, that creates the dictionary extensions/packages/etc on a weekly/fortnightly/monthly/quarterly builds; * Automatic uploading of spelling dictionaries to the Dictionary Extensions host used by LibreOffice; Somebody has to write _extensive_ documentation on: * How to create word list; * How to modify a word list; * How to upload the wordlist to the repository; * How third parties can download content in the repository; And maybe also: * How to transform the data in the repository to use with other software; I know that storing the wordlist on Git is well within the realms of being doable. However, I have no idea how that is done, and my reading of books on Git hasn't provided me with any pointers in that direction. For people who aren't used to versioning systems, Git is a confusing maze that is utterly incomprehensible. If it weren't for the fact that there are over 100 books on using Git, in print, I'd suggest that the first solvable problem is writing a manual for Git that mortals can understand. On second thoughts, even with 100 books in print, this type of manual could be an extremely useful addition. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Mistake in calc guide 4.1
On 03/03/2016 06:18, Luc Castermans wrote: > But instead of reporting you could fix it, that is what open source is about. The type of error that Elcico found is not uncommon in technical documentation. By reporting it, instead of just silently fixing it, people working on either the same document, or a later version of it, in their target language, are notified and can correct the error. Whether or not it is cost effective to go back to the 3.x documentation, to fix it, a slightly different question. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Possible error in calc guide
On 02/03/2016 01:19, elcico2001 wrote: > I think the power functions, as shown in the formula, are wrong, as they > should be used with a ; and not with a , . > As also stated here: > > https://help.libreoffice.org/3.5/Calc/Mathematical_Functions#POWER > > Am I right? Am I wrong? In LibO 5.1.0.3 both formats ( ";" & ",") work. I don't have earlier versions of LibO installed, so I can't check to see when both forms became acceptable. I _think_ that this is one of those features that belongs in the user documentation, but hasn't yet found its way there. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language Support, Spelling Check, Grammar Check, Proofreading, Autocorrect.
On 29/02/2016 09:34, Michael Bauer wrote: >> As is, LibO is perilously close to the maximum number of languages that can be supported, without undergoing a major UI redesign. > That is quite worrying - in what sense do you mean that? * Ease in selecting the correct language. Currently, there is a bewildering array of languages and locales, that most people will never utilize. For those who do, finding the appropriate one can be challenging. By way of example, most people don't realize that "Greek, Ancient" is not "Koine Greek", and that LibO doesn't formally support "Koine Greek". Whilst using "Greek, Ancient" usually works, both the spell checker and grammar checker will do a number on one, when one is not paying close attention. * Ability to utilize neighbouring, almost supported languages. By way of example, the minority languages of France. Configure LibO for one of them, and almost all of the other minority languages are automatically excluded. (I'll grant that Ethnologue is at least partially to be blamed for that situation.) On a slightly more practical/political level, not all of the semi-official languages of South Africa, can be configured in a single LibO setup. The same thing applies to India, and its semi-official languages. (Those two countries rank as having the second largest and largest number of official languages, and semi-official languages, respectively, in the world.) I don't have a good solution to either issue. :( Whilst «country, language, writing system, aeon, modifier» is ostensibly the simplest approach, spinning that many choices will be overwhelming for non-power users. (^2) How many people write Turkish in the Arabic writing system. On the flipside, enabling that will allow users of Braille, Moon and other A11Y writing systems to do both spell checking and grammar checking. On the gripping hand, it will enable one to easily include Xhosa, Pedi, Griqua, and the rest of the semi-official Khosian languages of South Africa, without grammar/spelling clashes. Something that makes language selection slightly more complicated, but is extremely helpful to those who use unsupported languages, or neighbouring semi-supported languages, would be three or four "user language #" in each of the Western, Asian, & CTL language groups. (There are/were technical & legal reasons why that is no longer provided.) ^2: I think that this modification will also require some changes in the ODF specifications. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language Support, Spelling Check, Grammar Check, Proofreading, Autocorrect.
On 29/02/2016 00:26, Michael Bauer wrote: >> Spelling and grammar check in every language, makes life easier. : > True but with 6000 languages on the planet, LO can't be the one which That 6.000 count only includes natural, living languages. Dead and extinct languages would probably double that number. Conlangs would triple, if not quadruple that number. As is, LibO is perilously close to the maximum number of languages that can be supported, without undergoing a major UI redesign. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Need for a solid help content
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 16/12/2015 08:25, Rimas Kudelis wrote: > Do they charge differently for questions covered in built-in help, or what? Welcome to the wacky world of Help Desks at support centers. Where the answer is located can have a huge difference on how much the client is billed. At one establishment I'm familiar with, answers in book number one were gratis, in book number two cost the client around five bucks each, and answers from book number the three were charged to the client for around a grand each. Answers from «F1» help were not gratis, but answers from official software documentation manuals were gratis. Beyond that, I don't remember the rule-set used to determine which answer book to place new solutions in. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWcdaMAAoJEKG7hs8nSMR78gYP/jjmdNDVETudmOtu/i4Y/kAL aPYikI5oq0Uc8s0rHMHn+59uxrb0TDo6qUmQ3AwT+JJUEyXcdvYgzNEO0PabAKbg AUmc5gOzItInmqaBWhQ6VVeVQZokvmvqV2tYgtjKR6O3dD8WFWAZ/pXBF60+IA6w wJoypTxzjYdrkqwl+m4+2yG+WUNbMkfVKNHmL/Enqo4Ycpc2Gxd9BRJq428y7eb0 8rsJA5ypFJ5KT7Xz7vXptQxhkIUfgwpDsjLxd3DxwLXM7BOL7Ru2YEC7OENwnOK5 PUN0KJCldwi+sXzuD7Pbzip20cXiX7FV6K/ywnAF8DZDuN95AP8M8aqiPTqyPaf4 rPCdgvI+eLfEnTrbLalw9D2IXOezTtP99deKGGnA1uRqjWEAxYluCpRIc2xqtcqQ 0kXsifqRvz8A5CojvUNy6SZpWU4gfSzMK+UAiCGdN0Z9oyu6cmAwZlklvENXH0hl ugJ8GVexFcPnPGjsWYR5HAlNbQTCNGRleLxRJRScdbOAVnByt88kAZjbZa5GrFwh AlyP03ZDH7C9VViAvrCle/zx4Ubqwjmm+y0sDGo8V+kGSSGoDZCSYB2gScOg3LaC F595ODcqTKUoqsxCMQZL3bk6tWHfgV1mgvsPN1bYGUJ3SNDVPGqXfqxdvQaFsJuA R5U3bfHJxG9+yz1qbu+p =A2BG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2015 14:31, Michael Bauer wrote: > 1) Orthography > Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has invo lve languages where spelling is a potentially contentious issue. Nonetheless, every one of the 3,000 languages that have been reduced to writing has a published dictionary, and grammar. I'll grant that regardless of which language one is talking about, there will be contentious issues regarding the accuracy of the book in question. That doesn't mean that work on spell checking and grammar checking should not be done. It does mean that whoever creates the spell checker and grammar checker have a hardcopy (paper) copy of the printed dictionary and grammar checker of the language in question, and understands both what in the book is contentious, and why it is contentious. It also means that when automated tools are used to pare out foreign words, ensure that only foreign words are omitted. (How many iterations of the Afrikaans spell checker were needed, before "die" was included in it? The same thing happens in other languages, but usually aren't as blatantly obvious omissions to even the most casual user.) >Team Size > Errr no. 1 dedicated localizer is more than enough. How many people should be on a team is as dependent on cultural factors, as it is on practical factors. The vice of a one-person team, is that there is nobody to hand off responsibility for the project off to, if the sole team member is no longer able to work on the project. The vice of multi-member teams, is death by paralysis. The inability to come to mutually acceptable solutions, when questions/problems arise. In the corporate world in Europe and North America, researchers have found that eight people on a team, is the most effective size, for a project to be successful. > 5) Start with documentation/help > No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a screen that says Filte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest in the same lingo too. a) The primary issue with translating the help file after the rest of the UI, is that it does not get done. (Take a look at the number of localizations of LibO, where the Help file is not translated into the target language.) b) By starting with the Help File, one can incorporate it into the Documentation Work Flow, ensuring the documentation is consistent across the various mediums. Otherwise you end up with situations like the US English, where the written documentation and the help file contradict each other. Even worse, is when both the built-in help file, and written documentation are wrong. > As to the Help, who reads the Help? The advanced/expert users of the software. I realize that Apple pioneered "Prohibit documentation wherever and whenever possible", but all that really results in, is to ensure that the user is unable to use the product as designed. >its the worst starting point and a soul-destroying task. It is no more heartbreaking to translate the Help file, as it is to translate the rest of the UI, or the documentation that is in other languages, into the target language. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWbKT8AAoJEKG7hs8nSMR70CwP/iw5yyVbNkrdwXgDuI9Z7Iw8 IzFJXk1N10uWhorLOKP2oCe/OvHeagLiOsj9vYjnIuFxPV9puHbci/u9GCgt4bYy ldcOPngm9WzJIvFwoJZkxIFogNjXrYglPmN47ak14dGEjnBsMQUMAIAMcPafx/JL dnHnDaOKmNFymvztALRMBHhHxHqBkIrZle76sdpkzwpo1ggPAiOe50utBj1sT1qn V+DsobD3LEX/fDXdUIFoOhsSB4Ko+kVvSrkpnQQvbsPkaj4o/NSw57f5J/JSaOwo W/l/a+OcqioT04rmBzJTa3PcWXuwPZ5wshpkvSCbFceXrblqd65FqYcehaE8PC3I KMDX0Ykrwuam24K6OhdCX0Q73Hqn4r5oOJovRcbWi+0lOfIV3/jiQBbdtzFF8ag3 6cB8T8nq4clcxmRv7x7lZEv3t7pkSRs8JbBezCg1sxCQbIplSSI0iWBNi8QxUzFd Fhqsf7DwPswCtGz+SdGCxPgWpBvJU6+AImjzIoQaccGd8s+RWVzbRIh0lICFtSkp kfGoqFJI/JZTUY1PtdluqmR6e6xK0SrDBm33Q8doz82nl9IwLmEsX4+PyyDCqNa4 b6LBSmkMHUUGmMpIx8xlwlehGAsgfzTq41gf4Mr0h/kvy+7DQi/I7+trIw1935Y3 61hnROdhTwlO/YYwy5+o =lj6Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New language request
On 08/12/2015 14:23, Greater Worcester Land Trust wrote: > I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort. > I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization. Let's start at the very beginning. How well does LibO _currently_ support Nipmuck?: * Is Locale data for Nipmuck correct? * Is the language currently selectable at >Options >Language Settings >Languages >Default Language >Western"? * How accurate is the spell checker? * How accurate is the hyphenation tool? * How accurate is the grammar checker? * Are all the glyphs found in the writing system used by the language correctly represented in LibO? * Are templates appropriate to the language, and its inherent culture, available? * Are templates appropriate to the language, and its inherent culture, accurate? Once all that is done, then start creating basic documentation. My recommendation is that for at least the first round, translate existing documentation. With the second round of documentation, start using local examples, usages, etc. within the documentation. After creating complete documentation for four or five releases of LibO, most of the glossary related issues will have been solved, which simplifies the translation by several orders of magnitude. I'd also recommend starting with the built-in help file, rather than the initial screens, when translating the UI. Sidenote: In talking with professors who specialize in minority language, and language recovery, the uniform response is that it is much more important that the office suite produce accurate documents in the target language, than the UI be in the target language. Rephrasing: -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Two Languages: One ISO-639-# code
All: In testing out various grammar and spell checkers, I've come across a couple of instances, where different languages/dialects share the same ISO code. IOW: The _current_ ISO 639-1, ISO 639-2, ISO 639-3, ISO 639-4, ISO 639-5, and ISO 639-6 codes are the same. They do have different Glottolog Codes. The only solutions I found from Google searches were: * Use User-1 for one language, User-2 for the other language; * Use a completely different language and locale for one language; The issue with User-#, is that it is no longer found in standard LibreOffice builds. The issue with use a completely different language, is that that results in a language collision, when a user has to use both languages. Question: * What is the recommended practice for this type of situation. ### Currently, this is an unusual case, but as LibreOffice extends into more languages that are threatened, endangered, extinct, or dead, it will become much more common. ### I do have complete locale data for one or two of these conflicting languages. However, since they share the same ISO 639-#, ISO 15924, and ISO 3166-1 Codes, I don't see how LibO, or any other programme could correctly differentiate between them. As a general rule, they do have different ISO 3166-2 Codes. ISO 3166-3 Codes are not of much use here, because they aren't old enough for the languages that need them. (Chinese, Greek, and Hebrew, amongst others.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] OOo goes to Apache Foundation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/06/2011 05:26, andré b wrote: AGPL is a stricter version of GPL. It adds restrictions on Internet interactions. AGPL preserves the freedoms that GPL doesn't. LGPL now means _Lesser_ General Public License. I know what it means,. I also know how to take LGPL licensed software, modify it, and distribute the resulting binary without the source code used to create that binary, and remain in technical compliance with the LGPL. In practical terms, it means that Libreoffice can always be distributed by others along with closed source programs, so allowing a wider use of Libreoffice. It also means that LibreOffice, or OOo, or whatever Apache renames it, _if_ they decide to accept it, will also be providing support to those distributors of repackaged LibO, or OOo. Distributors that may, but based on historical practice, will not be providing source code for their modifications. jonathon - -- If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting. If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth requesting. DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN6QMTAAoJEERA7YuLpVrVBn0H/AhZq1g4ymkxig4VL3HWb9aY adzbgZoJwx5byu4yEZpcQ8ttMrBlOo+AUXAHswEZmGiQzF0fG9t/QABaLnFHC4nP fOGcAxDZvqLm1DyqDpluHmKC4buE/at06RRwdi3MN85CLiSoY8wkfhB7H7DwITRz O5hE73K3Vpew+/h0GX3rQAvyHZIPffHS+kQe1u1oMCftZ2PPM7ZlcArXTIuAvK6J CwCSx3aqXWvk1WJyIJ/h7Sd38/JSdI7nB5txTXbaqGNbpqI8mQBPiAv7+95RGN9n RfNjcZABfJJLNKbtUV9BbvcV0lhQBtmTWqiPxTsvoziN/wDcVRvxRU1kC5I1kyQ= =F8kl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] OOo goes to Apache Foundation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/06/2011 12:29, Mike Dupont wrote: This means that changes can be cherry picked out and included in libreoffice, no? What changes? Under the new OOo license there is no requirement for source code to be available, much less sent up stream. Which means that the best license for LibO to use is AGPL, precisely because it is incompatible with the EULA that OOo will be distributed under. (Unless you don't mind your LibO contributions being used in a closed source, priority program that is distributed under a EULA on slightly less restrictive than MSO2000 Enterprise Edition.) Also, may i ask what is the point of a lgpl. library gpl for an application. It allows the program to be distributed as closed source, without making that fact immediately obvious. jonathon - -- If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting. If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth requesting. DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN6FLNAAoJEERA7YuLpVrVQJMH/i7/luoVKpXda21OHYNkBkmj 83vzG9ktTZs6DTciMxmDkm1GT1EQIb96WVEduIGc/b6TYZxg/GIfiOn2cEjT2jLu VRQ4QrakzvCvX0VVrZzz1hM4D3Hy2K8WeP/zbJOIVxGfT1zYfybBK/Mw54IsysoB BCSCmtISmLGnVffDtLvrHiR4E9mfE0NFjkfag063FGiu7AZHcgY6iPIjvyICMt1F Wt9nfmCJcq7MQPGqSfjSyOWkTzG2HztMnAHlj4e2UNoT4BDkGMb3FTEEPQUIRIs+ solt/K97sch378aHmAZiaWTRPT6GJJ8+kkyfpMq6ruZks2LhkTL5CovBQVXuVOE= =90w/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
