re: [lace] I need a new magazine subscription

[Bev Walker]

Hi Chris and everyone

If you are in the US and don't yet belong to IOLI, that would be a good
one, for sure ;)

If you do get the bulletin already, I recommend 'Lace' from England it is
really good value, for the price.

If you want a chatty magazine with a few good patterns, try Canadian
Lacemaker Gazette or the Newsletter of The Lacemakers' Circle, England
(CLG usually has quite a half dozen lace patterns, the Circle has at least
one or two and often features other crafts)

Kniplebrevet, Die Spitze and Kantbrief from Denmark, Germany and
TheNetherlands, respectively, are all glossy lace magazines published by
their respective organizations, equally full of patterns and interesting
articles. I give the edge to Kniplebrevet which to me seems the equivalent
of the Lace Guild's 'Lace' (plus it always features a Tonder pattern) and
Kantbrief for conventional and contemporary Dutch laces;  both also have
English translations.

A magazine I admire is La Encajera from Spain. It too is pricey but when I
receive it it feels like some of that warm Spanish sun has come in the
door. Lots of patterns, many from regional areas of Spain.
Plus I think you get 6 issues instead of 4 in a subscription year.

I started to look for the web addresses of the above, but really if you
google for any title you'll find the site. or visit the lacefairy pages.
There are several others, but I think what you are looking for is in the
above.

bye for now
Bev in Sooke BC (west coast of Canada) who will give one website because
she's its mistress: http://www.lacegazette.com

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Re: [lace] flaming time

[Ruth Budge]

Helene Gannac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: .and breaking up into a
rash of bad temper when you see the first hot-cross buns and Easter eggs in the
supermarkets! :-)

Which I did only yesterday!!   (Saw the first hot-cross buns, I mean, not break
into a rash of bad temper!!! BG!)

Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia)




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[lace] flaming time

[Helene Gannac]

Oops, sorry, forgot to sign my previous message!

Helene, the froggy from Melbourne, who's expecting 9 people for dinner on
Sunday night, and real hot weather is expected! (no air-con)...

Intersting remark, Tamara.
Does that mean that us antipodes dwellers get mad for the opposite reasons
to you Northern parts dwellers?Anyone wants to keep stats??? :-)

Personally, I would have said that the February outburst comes from being
finally free from Christmas, New Year and other festivals and their
attending nerve-racking activities (like where are you going to have Xmas
lunch with this year? parents, in-laws, ex in-laws, partner's ex in-laws,
etc, etc, or are you going to be brave enough to stay home and make lace
all afternoon?)and breaking up into a rash of bad temper when you see the
first hot-cross buns and Easter eggs in the supermarkets! :-)

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[lace] flaming time

[Helene Gannac]

"...That has been my observation also, esp in December; every Christmas 
that we manage to squeak through without drawing blood on the list (and 
in private, but in response to list postings) I consider a minor 
miracle... :) In August, you have to add the "fed-up factor" to the 
heat -- the kids have been at home (not at school) for 2 months; relief 
is in sight, but, in the meantime, the pressure keeps building up... :) 
I get short-tempered in winter-time myself; I don't have SADD, but lack 
of *natural* light gets harder and harder to cope with as I get older, 
and St Valentine's Day is meaningless to me as a "break", since it's 
not something I grew up with..."

Intersting remark, Tamara.
Does that mean that us antipodes dwellers get mad for the opposite reasons
to you Northern parts dwellers?Anyone wants to keep stats??? :-)

Personally, I would have said that the February outburst comes from being
finally free from Christmas, New Year and other festivals and their
attending nerve-racking activities (like where are you going to have Xmas
lunch with this year? parents, in-laws, ex in-laws, partner's ex in-laws,
etc, etc, or are you going to be brave enough to stay home and make lace
all afternoon?)and breaking up into a rash of bad temper when you see the
first hot-cross buns and Easter eggs in the supermarkets! :-)

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[lace] Re: Gimps, odd uses of

[Tamara P. Duvall]

On Feb 5, 2004, at 18:25, Viv Dewar wrote:

Dear Tamara
Please don't hog! We who are not in IOLI still want to "hear" (read) 
all
your words and see the patterns!
Ah, but unless you subscribe (or know someone who does), you *won't* :) 
The patterns I'm hoping to put on the web (as soon as I make sense of 
the logistics... Today, I was able to remove the *picture* appended to 
the "Merry Christmas '03", but *not* the announcement itself... Sigh.. 
There's no Paradise this side of the grave ) will all be *old* 
patterns, which had been published in "hard copy" some years back. *No 
way* am I going to *undermine* IOLI (why bother subscribing, if I can 
get it off the web?), especially now, that it's doing its best to 
accomodate coloured lace...

Good Luck as Tamara BLED!
Viv, thanks for the giggle of the day (I sure needed it; the weather is 
enough to look for the nearest sharp razor to cut one's throat with) 
 While the *patterns* will continue to be "IOLI-dedicated", I'll 
"bleed" whatever technical tips I can think of, as the questions come 
up; I promise not to "hog" them :)
-
Tamara P Duvall
Lexington, Virginia,  USA
Formerly of Warsaw, Poland
http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/

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Re: [lace] Lace

[Liz Beecher]

Viv,

I was just thinking about this in the car this morning, nope - no copy 
of Lace for January so it isn't just me who hasn't got it.

I was thinking that I was being victimised!!

I can sleep easy now

Liz

Viv Dewar wrote:

 > Hi - especially all UK Lace Guild Members
 > Has anyone got their January "Lace " yet?
 > I got my "Young Lacemakers" magazine today (I still celebrate my 10th
 > birthday - after about 35 more!). Normally it arrives about 1 - 2 weeks
 > after Lace.
 > Before I contact the Hollies I wanted to check if I was alone in not
 > receiving Jan's edition (then I'd phone straight away). If they've had a
 > distribution glitch and all of us are still waiting I'd hang on a bit to
 > let the mail service catch up with itself.
 > Happy lacing
 > Viv
 >
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 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >

-- 
Regards

Liz B

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RE: [lace] Re: Gimps, odd uses of

[Viv Dewar]

Dear Tamara
Please don't hog! We who are not in IOLI still want to "hear" (read) all
your words and see the patterns!
Good Luck as Tamara BLED!
Viv
Re:
Yours, thinking that, perhaps, I ought to have "hogged" all the above 
info ...  I've accepted the "position" of the "BL Editor" of IOLI 
(first "salvo" in the summer issue) -- a function which carries the 
responsibility of 3 articles and a pattern every year. I think I'm "all 
set" (4 variations on a pattern, and 3 articles to go with them) for 
the first year, but, with the ideas for the *articles* being in short 
supply...

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[lace] Lace

[Viv Dewar]

Hi - especially all UK Lace Guild Members  
Has anyone got their January "Lace " yet? 
I got my "Young Lacemakers" magazine today (I still celebrate my 10th
birthday - after about 35 more!). Normally it arrives about 1 - 2 weeks
after Lace.
Before I contact the Hollies I wanted to check if I was alone in not
receiving Jan's edition (then I'd phone straight away). If they've had a
distribution glitch and all of us are still waiting I'd hang on a bit to
let the mail service catch up with itself.
Happy lacing
Viv

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[no subject]

[Brenda Paternoster]

subscribe lace

Brenda
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/
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[lace] Fwd: Lace In

[Janice Blair]

I apologise to Gwen, I got her email wrong, my typing.  It should be:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Janice Blair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:25:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Janice Blair 
Subject: Lace In
To: lace-digest 

As the Lace list is quiet at the moment let me mention that the Prairie Mill 
Lacemakers of Belvidere, Illinois are holding their annual Lace In at Midway Village 
in Rockford, Illinois in April.  This year it will be over 2 days.  Saturday April 
3rd, our Lace In starts at 10:00 till 5:00 and the Fibre Festival will start at noon.  
Sunday the 4th will be from 12:00 to 5:00 and we are offering the following classes 
for anyone interested:  Introduction to Lace, Help with a Lace Project, and Learn a 
Technique.
 
Bring you lace pillow, tatting shuttle, or needle, and lunch, and come and have fun 
with your lacemaking buddies.  We hope to see the great lacemaking gals from Wisconsin 
join us for a third year along with anyone else who can make it.  There is lots to see 
besides lace, for example, spinners, weavers, quilters, knitting vendors and fibre 
artists of all kinds.  This meeting is just growing and growing.  Midway Village and 
Museum is a great family place as well.  If you need more information or might want to 
take a class contact Gwendolyn Wylie at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Janice Blair

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RE: [lace] Preserving Old Books

[Panza, Robin]

>>>From: Carolyn Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Second, I learned at a workshop presented by Archival Products that there
are a number of the plastic pockets on the market that are marked "archival"
that aren't, at all.  As far as I could tell, about the only way to
distinguish was to purchase materials from a very reputable supplier, <<<

I second this (thought about putting in a warning, but didn't).  There are
often impurities in the less expensive products of chemicals considered
archival.  Even "polyester" batting comes in various qualities.  The stuff
sold for stuffing quilts is not, generally, pure polyester.  Similarly, not
all mylar, polyethylene, etc. are truly inert and safe.

In addition, there doesn't seem to be any federal regulation (at least in
the US) of the word "archival", so inexpensive products by popular companies
may be nasty as all get-out but still bear the label.  This is a widespread
problem in scrapbooking supplies.

Unfortunately, this is a field where you still do get what you pay
for--truly archival materials and products are expensive.

Robin P.
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

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[lace] Are the lace police listening?

[Gabrielle's business]

OMG! There are lace police? I'm sure to be arrested! 

-Gabrielle

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RE: [lace] Preserving Old Books

[Carolyn Hastings]

I would like to amply two points that Robin made.  Generally the quality of
paper being produced has degraded through history  significantly every fifty
years or so, due to "technological improvements" of the time.  So, paper
that is three hundred years old is likely to be in much better shape now
than that 200 years old, which in turn will be incredibly better than that
100 years old.  The worst period seems to have run approximately 1850-1950.
Whole sections of libraries are crumbling due to the acidity of paper
produced in this period, and it presents an enormous challenge to preserving
those books.

As strange as it may seem, there probably isn't much paper produced in the
last twenty years or so, at least hard-cover "quality" books, that will be
nearly as acidic as the older books.  So probably the newer books are in
more danger from the Victorian ones, than the reverse.

Second, I learned at a workshop presented by Archival Products that there
are a number of the plastic pockets on the market that are marked "archival"
that aren't, at all.  As far as I could tell, about the only way to
distinguish was to purchase materials from a very reputable supplier, as
noted by Robin.  It was very enticing to think that these expensive
materials had reached the mass market, with accompanying lower prices, but
apparently, t'ain't so.  Not worth saving a few dollars, if the articles are
in no better shape, or worse,  than doing nothing.

Regards,
Carolyn Hastings
Stow, MA USA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Panza, Robin
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:45 AM
> To: Arachne (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [lace] Preserving Old Books
> 
> 
> I started to send this directly to Linda, but decided to send 
> to the list. While this is not lace, conserving old patterns 
> and books is pretty darn close and I've included the 
> addresses of archival suppliers that can be useful for 
> supplies to preserve old lace, too.
> 
> I am *NOT* a paper conservator.  However, working in a 
> natural history museum, I've had to deal some with paper 
> storage.  Here is my understanding. If you get a paper 
> conservator responding to your request who disagrees with 
> what I say, go ahead and throw out my advice.
> 
> >>>Especially - I've a dim memory of being told that older books 
> >>>shouldn't
> be kept near younger books, as the younger books gave off 
> something that would attack the paper of the older books.  <<<
> 
> Anything new tends to off-gas for awhile.  Plastics in new 
> cars off-gas formaldehyde (believe it or not, that's the 
> much-beloved "new car smell"!!). Wood products do off-gas 
> acidic fumes from the lignin in the wood. Virtually all 
> modern book pages are made from wood pulp and therefore have 
> lignin.  Old books were made from cotton rag and didn't have 
> lignin.  That's why a 5-year-old book may be more 
> age-yellowed than a 100-year-old book.  We have worried about 
> possible damage to our specimens from off-gassing from wood drawers.
> 
> I don't know this, but it makes sense that storing old and 
> new books together, especially in a closed place ("lawyer" 
> style bookcase, cabinet, etc.), might expose the old, 
> acid-free books to acidic fumes from the modern, wood-base 
> books.  I would not think that this is significant if there 
> is air circulation, such as most open bookcases, but I may be 
> wrong about that.
> 
> >>>Since I wrote that, I've seen an advertisement for 
> acid-free plastic
> pockets for storing documents.  While these sound a little 
> unlikely to me - both the acid-free part and that storing 
> paper in plastic  might be a good thing to do - I'm open to 
> being educated on the subject.<<<
> 
> While most plastics are acid-free, not all are archival.  And 
> here my memory gets a bit fuzzy.  I believe polyvinyl and 
> polystyrene are not archival, but mylar (polyester) and 
> ethafoam (polyethylene, I believe, but my memory may be off). 
>  Cheap plastic page protectors and cheap slide storage pages 
> are not archival.  However, you can get mylar or other 
> archival-plastic page protectors from conservation suppliers.  
> 
> If a page is acidic, I was taught by our conservator that 
> it's still good to encase it in mylar, as long as you didn't 
> *seal* it in.  We were dealing with old maps, so we took a 
> sheet of mylar, creased it, and ran double-sided tape up two 
> sides.  Leaving the end opposite the crease open was enough 
> to allow the paper to 'breathe' while protecting it 
> physically during use. That much I give you as advice.  The 
> following is my surmise:  page protectors are open at one 
> end, so that should be just like our map sleeves--physical 
> protection without trapping moisture or acidic fumes.
> 
> Here's info on archival supplies companies I've dealt with and been
> well-treated:
> 
> University Products (the one I've used the most)
> 517 Main St., PO Box 101, Holyoke, MA 

[lace] Archival storage

[Jean Nathan]

I wrote some time ago about storage of photographs in polyester bags (look
just like clear polythene to me, but they're not). They are archival bags
available from good art shops and through the web. A quick 'google' will
bring up several suppliers of them.

Jean in Poole

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[lace] archival storage

[Lorelei Halley]

Robin
Thank you for the info on storing stuff and what's archival and what's not.
Very useful.
Lorelei

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Re: [lace] arachne heart

[beth]

Jenny  wrote:
> Am I the last person to finish trimming my spider heart? I've finally
> finished
No, Jenny - I'm afraid to say mine is still on the pillow, and waiting for 
lighter evenings as the black silk thread is hard to see.
Beth
in an unseasonally mild and unusually sunny Cheshire

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[lace] I need a new magazine subscription

[Chris Vail]

Prompted by Tamara's announcement (You go, girl!) I'd
like to run a question past y'all.  I have a magazine
subscription running out that I don't want to renew
(they went from fun crochet to fashion, and I just
don't do Fashion :P ) What would you recommend as the
one lace publication/group to subscribe to?  To help
maybe narrow it down, I love patterns, don't fuss over
traditional or not, self-taught but *very* proficient
at Making Things Work, not real keen on part laces -
Honiton and the like, but am not limited to bobbin
lace by any stretch. If you can't pick one, do two and
tell me why.  And if it doesn't fit what I wrote
above, tell me anyway.  I'm willing to be wrong :)

I know this question comes up now and again on the
list, but I haven't needed the information til now
(isn't that always the way?)  I don't crochet much at
all any more and have plenty of patterns to keep me
busy.  I've never subscribed to a lace magazine before
and I'd really like to give it a try.  Thanks for any
info y'all can give me :)

Chris - ready to expand my world (I'm in the US,
should it matter ;D )

=
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(:> _)Xbut weasels don't get
  |/   sucked into jet 
   engines!"

__
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Re: [lace] filet guipure

[kbovard]

> Once again,the list has come up with a subject I am working on!  Vibeke lent me 
> several books on filet to scan and they are all very interesting. There are even 
> pattern sheets to go with three of them.
> They won't appear on the site for a little while yet--I'm still in the middle of 
> scanning and proofing. Then the scans get sent to the Professor for his corrections, 
> so it will be a few weeks before you see them.
> But keep an eye out: they'll be there soon. 
> 
> Tess ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Hello Tess,

I understand that you are scanning in the Carita book on Filet lace.  I
have a copy of this and several Knight books.  What I am interested in
getting copies of are the Carita 'patterns' that are available.  I have
seen them for sale on the out of print book sellers lists every so often
but have not yet purchased a copy.  Do you have these patterns?  And if
so, would I be able to purchase a copy from you?  I am interested in the
technique of working Filet Lace from the standpoint that I teach the
technique.

Sincerely,
Karen Bovard  (The ShuttleSmith)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Omaha, NE

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[lace] Isis Lacemakers Lace Fair

[Christine Lardner]

As the list is quiet this is a good time to let you know about the Isis 
Lacemakers forthcoming Lace Fair. This is our 16th Lace Fair, and will be 
held at Exeter Hall, Kidlington, just north of Oxford on Saturday 3rd April. 
There will be lots of your favourite suppliers, plus our usual mammoth 
tombola, refreshments etc. If you need more details check out our web page 
www.isis-lacemakers.org
Hope to see you there!
Christine

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RE: [lace] Preserving Old Books

[Panza, Robin]

I started to send this directly to Linda, but decided to send to the list.
While this is not lace, conserving old patterns and books is pretty darn
close and I've included the addresses of archival suppliers that can be
useful for supplies to preserve old lace, too.

I am *NOT* a paper conservator.  However, working in a natural history
museum, I've had to deal some with paper storage.  Here is my understanding.
If you get a paper conservator responding to your request who disagrees with
what I say, go ahead and throw out my advice.

>>>Especially - I've a dim memory of being told that older books shouldn't
be kept near younger books, as the younger books gave off something that
would attack the paper of the older books.  <<<

Anything new tends to off-gas for awhile.  Plastics in new cars off-gas
formaldehyde (believe it or not, that's the much-beloved "new car smell"!!).
Wood products do off-gas acidic fumes from the lignin in the wood.
Virtually all modern book pages are made from wood pulp and therefore have
lignin.  Old books were made from cotton rag and didn't have lignin.  That's
why a 5-year-old book may be more age-yellowed than a 100-year-old book.  We
have worried about possible damage to our specimens from off-gassing from
wood drawers.

I don't know this, but it makes sense that storing old and new books
together, especially in a closed place ("lawyer" style bookcase, cabinet,
etc.), might expose the old, acid-free books to acidic fumes from the
modern, wood-base books.  I would not think that this is significant if
there is air circulation, such as most open bookcases, but I may be wrong
about that.

>>>Since I wrote that, I've seen an advertisement for acid-free plastic
pockets for storing documents.  While these sound a little unlikely to me -
both the acid-free part and that storing paper in plastic  might be a good
thing to do - I'm open to being educated on the subject.<<<

While most plastics are acid-free, not all are archival.  And here my memory
gets a bit fuzzy.  I believe polyvinyl and polystyrene are not archival, but
mylar (polyester) and ethafoam (polyethylene, I believe, but my memory may
be off).  Cheap plastic page protectors and cheap slide storage pages are
not archival.  However, you can get mylar or other archival-plastic page
protectors from conservation suppliers.  

If a page is acidic, I was taught by our conservator that it's still good to
encase it in mylar, as long as you didn't *seal* it in.  We were dealing
with old maps, so we took a sheet of mylar, creased it, and ran double-sided
tape up two sides.  Leaving the end opposite the crease open was enough to
allow the paper to 'breathe' while protecting it physically during use.
That much I give you as advice.  The following is my surmise:  page
protectors are open at one end, so that should be just like our map
sleeves--physical protection without trapping moisture or acidic fumes.

Here's info on archival supplies companies I've dealt with and been
well-treated:

University Products (the one I've used the most)
517 Main St., PO Box 101, Holyoke, MA  01041-0101
1-800-442-7576
www.universityproducts.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Light Impressions (they emphasize photographic supplies, but have plastic
pages, too)
PO Box 787, Brea, CA  92822-0787
1-800-828-6216
www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

our museum's librarian has used the following:
The Hollinger Corporation
PO Box 8360, Fredericksburg, VA  22404-8360
1-800-634-0491
email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(I don't see a URL, but my catalog's a few years old)

Hope this helps,
Robin P.
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

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Re: [lace] Preserving Old Books

[Thelacebee]

Linda,

I'm sure that there are some people on the list directly involved in document storage 
but I do remember seeing somewhere that there were some plastic pockets on the market 
that did this - but they were available from specialist suppliers.

My initial lateral thought was that the people who really know about document storage 
would be the Public Records Office at Kew (http://www.pro.gov.uk./) 

Public Record Office, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU. 
Telephone Number: 020 8876 3444, fax: 020 8392 5286,
minicom: 020 8392 9198

Liz

In a message dated 2/5/2004 5:45:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Since I wrote that, I've seen an advertisement for acid-free plastic pockets
> for storing documents.  While these sound a little unlikely to me - both the
> acid-free part and that storing paper in plastic  might be 
> a good thing to
> do - I'm open to being educated on the subject.
> 
> All suggestions will be received with gratitude!
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> Linda Walton,
> (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).


Regards

Liz Beecher
I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see 
what it's all about

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[lace] Re: Gimps, odd uses of

[Mary L. Tod]

At 10:07 PM -0500 2/4/04, Tamara P. Duvall wrote:
Yours, thinking that, perhaps, I ought to have "hogged" all the 
above info ...  I've accepted the "position" of the "BL Editor" 
of IOLI (first "salvo" in the summer issue) -- a function which 
carries the responsibility of 3 articles and a pattern every year. I 
think I'm "all set" (4 variations on a pattern, and 3 articles to go 
with them) for the first year, but, with the ideas for the 
*articles* being in short supply...
Congratulations on accepting this position, Tamara, and I know you'll 
do fine in it. Enjoy!!

--
Mary, in Baltimore, MD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[lace] arachne heart

[Barron]

Am I the last person to finish trimming my spider heart? I've finally
finished - second attempt as I made the first effort too short - I'm quite
pleased with the result. Thank you Pauline and the lavender still smells
lovely

jenny barron
a sunny spring day in Scotland

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[lace] Preserving Old Books

[Linda Walton]

Dear Lacemakers,

I'm taking heart from the acceptance of the discussion of photography to
resend this question to Lace.  Although I sent it to Lace-Chat last Summer,
it didn't get any replies, and I'm still concerned about the topic.  (Maybe
it was holiday time, or the knowledgable people don't subscribe there . .
..)

"Recently I've bought some older books - late nineteenth-century lace and
needlework texts - and I would like advice about how to look after them
during use and storage.

Especially - I've a dim memory of being told that older books shouldn't
be kept near younger books, as the younger books gave off something that
would attack the paper of the older books.  As my informer was a lady who
assists in caring for the libraries at some of the Oxford Colleges, I think
she probably knows what she is talking about.  Unfortunately, our paths
haven't crossed for many years, so I can't ask for more information.

Although my books aren't particularly valuable, they have great charm for
me,
and I'd like to do my best for them.  A particular problem is a textbook for
pupil-teachers, "Needlework and Cutting Out", (which still has written and
marked exercises in the back).  Various things have been between the pages
for the last hundred years, including bits of fabric, paper patterns made
from shop flyers and old newspaper, (including a report of the
progress of the Boer War), and what I think must be a piece from a
Valentine's Day card.  Inevitably, some of these have stained the paper, and
I would like to preserve this treasure, (which I found being kicked about on
the floor of the back room of a little secondhand bookshop!), yet without
further damage."

Since I wrote that, I've seen an advertisement for acid-free plastic pockets
for storing documents.  While these sound a little unlikely to me - both the
acid-free part and that storing paper in plastic  might be a good thing to
do - I'm open to being educated on the subject.

All suggestions will be received with gratitude!

Yours sincerely,
Linda Walton,
(in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).

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[lace] RE: trip to NZ-bobbins

[Ian & Chelle Long]

Gidday Alison and all,

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