Re: [lace] Lace world loss.

[palmhaven]

Please relay my heart felt sympathies to Inge's family.  She was a great
lacemaker and will be sorely missed.  I really liked her books.

Sylvia Andrews
Tip of Texas

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Re: [lace] Pattern Issue

[palmhaven]

It was Christine Springett that suggested tying the gimp thread when they
want to be slippery.  I always overlap thru at least four pair and more if I
can manage it.

Sylvia Andrews
Lacemaking talent on loan from God

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Re: [lace] Pattern Issue

[palmhaven]

Evelynn,
 I am also a self taught lace maker.  You could use Mimosa 120 for the
cotton thread.  If you feel that it is too flimsy, you might want to go with
something with a few less wraps like DMC Broder special 90 or DMC Fil a
Dentelees 200.   If you can get it BROK 100/3 works well with those
patterns.  DMC Coton a Broder 16 works well as a gimp. I do not like pearl
cotton for gimp because it is shiny and your lace cotton is not.
  What you might like even more is silk.  Piper spun silk 210/2.  Sewing
silk comes in two sizes if you can find it at a quilting or sewing shop, 50
and 100.  The 50 would be the size that you need for your pattern.  I have
had very good results with silk.  Buttonhole silk twist works well with this
silk as a gimp.  You could also use Gutterman 30/3 for the gimp.
 A caveat with using gimp in silk is that if the gimp is not of a
continuous  nature, you will need to tie the gimp thread with the ground
thread after they are overlapped.  I have had problems with them wanting to
work loose because the thread is slippery.  You will love the way silk
tensions though.  Hope that this is helpful.
   I made Miss Channer's mat in silk before I made it in cotton.  I used the
100 sewing silk and it was too thin.  It needed the 50 silk.  It was a
learning experience.

Sylvia Andrews
Lacemaking talent on loan from God

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Re: [lace] Re: [e-tatters] I started teaching four adults--

[palmhaven]

Roslyn,
Could you elaborate a little more?  I have never tried to tat with a
needle.  Is it easier than with a shuttle.  I have not been graced with that
talent, eventhough a dear friend of mine is a fantastic tatter.  I don't
even think  Karisse thinks about what she is doing anymore when she tats.
It's amazing.  I am really envious.

Sylvia Andrews
Lace making talent on loan from God.

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Re: [lace] workcloth / ring / horseshoe

[palmhaven]

When I first started doing Brugge, I had read about using a clear plastic
cover cloth with the hole cut in it.  I tried it and did not like it.  True,
you can see your work, but the bobbins want to slide all over the place.
The flip- flop, flip flop of the bobbins on the vinyl just drove me crazy.
I guess it is just what works best for you.

Sylvia Andrews
Lacemaking talent on loan from God

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Re: [lace] RE: Ring thing

[palmhaven]

Valerie,

It is used on laces to keep the threads on your pillow from getting frayed
by the pins that you have already pushed in.  I have used it on Duchesse and
Brugge because you are turning the pillow quite often while you are making
the lace.

I suppose you could use it for other laces that require turning the pillow.
I prefer the horseshoe over the ring, because if you don't put the ring on
at the beginning you have to put your bobbins through the ring.  If you are
working with a large number of bobbins, that can be a real hassle.

Lacy Susan has some of the rings as well as horseshoes.  I do not know why
your tubing wouldn't work just as well.  I'd try it and see how it works.
Before I bought a horseshoe I used my crochet hook to raise it up a little.
I tried a ring from a canning jar but didn't care for it.  Hope this helps.

Sylvia Andrews
Lacemaking talent on loan from God.

Sylvia



- Original Message -
From: "Valerie Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "purple lacer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] RE: Ring thing


> Ok you guys.
>  I guess I missed something somewhere. What is the
> Green Horseshoe used for. I assume the plastic tubing
> is used for the same thing. I was making Hair Halos
> for the girls around my area,so I have a lot of this
> plastic tubing. I was glueing a smaller piece into
> the larger tubing to hold it togather in a ring. So
> If I can find out how it works.Maybe I already
> have one ;-).
> Valerie
> > Liz wrote:
> > >2) I understand there is a Ring thing that works
> > even better than the Green
> > >Horseshoe
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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Re: Re: [lace] Colcoton Thread; Economy 101

[palmhaven]

Avital,

Her message is rife with inuendo if not actual reference and it is in more
than the "sig."  I will quote the two most offensive parts.

..."That the extent is limited is not my fault; I don't
happen to have any shares in Enron or Haliburton, nor am I in the upper
2% bracket, so my income has plummeted even faster than the dollar vs
euro has since the advent of the current administration."...

... "I even gave up going to the U
film club (to see Farenheit 9/11) tonihgt; "...

That is in the body of the letter - NOT THE "SIG".

If that is not a political statement, I will add a few of my own to my
signature line.

Sylvia
If you don't like the economy and political climate here go to where ever
you came from.


- Original Message -
From: "Avital" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "palmhaven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tamara P. Duvall"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lace Arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [lace] Colcoton Thread; Economy 101


> Sylvia,
>
> A political statement in a sig is okay, as long as it's not too lengthy.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Avital
> Arachne moderator
>
> > I really do not think that this is the place for political opinions.
> > Sylvia Andrews
>
>

- Original Message -
From: "Avital" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "palmhaven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tamara P. Duvall"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lace Arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [lace] Colcoton Thread; Economy 101


> Sylvia,
>
> A political statement in a sig is okay, as long as it's not too lengthy.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Avital
> Arachne moderator
>
> > I really do not think that this is the place for political opinions.
> > Sylvia Andrews
>
>

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Re: [lace] Colcoton Thread; Economy 101

[palmhaven]

I really do not think that this is the place for political opinions.
Sylvia Andrews

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Re: [lace] Channer Mat

[palmhaven]

A big thanks to all the kind comments I received on my lace.  I have not
touched the pillow since last Friday night.  Yes, I am already well into
withdrawal.  My fingers are itching to get at more lace.  I think that I may
try to design something.
Sylvia

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Re: [lace] Coloured prickings

[palmhaven]

Clay, I don't know where you are looking but the prickings in the back of
the book on separate card stock are RED, RED, RED with black print.

Sylvia

- Original Message -
From: "Clay Blackwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Coloured prickings


> Actually, the bright RED is the background of the pictures
> of finished lace only.  The DIAGRAMS are printed on white in
> really bright (and not easy on the eyes...) colors.  The
> prickings are black on white, but very faint.
>
> Clay
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:39 PM
> Subject: [lace] Coloured prickings
>
>
> > One of my students, in conjunction with an on-the-ball
> photocopy-shop man,
> > found out that she could have her black on orange pricking
> (which she didn't
> > like) copied onto white by the simple expedient of him
> "turning off the
> > background colour" in a colour photocopy machine ie it
> only picked up the black.  She
> > was then able to cover this with her preferred choice of
> blue film.
> > I am now trying to work out if I can do this on my home
> (and more basic)
> > colour photocopier, but if I can I haven't been able to
> work it out yet.
> >
> > If my explanation is clear enough, and your copy shop can
> understand you,
> > this might be an option for dealing with the bright RED
> pricking in
> > Tonderkniplinger.
> >
> > -
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> containing the line:
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> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [lace] Femten Bredere: Tonderkniplinger

[palmhaven]

I bought the book and Clay is right you can't copy the diagrams.  I am
however going to copy the prickings onto something besides "RED"  and they
picked a garrish red at that.  I think they need to pick a color more kinder
and gentler to the eye.  Besides prickings wear out.

Sylvia Andrews


- Original Message -
From: "Barbara Joyce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Clay Blackwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:06 AM
Subject: [lace] Femten Bredere: Tonderkniplinger


> Clay,
>
> I saw that book on eBay! $88! Wow!
>
> Can you tell me--is the text in English? And from whom can it be ordered?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barbara
>
> > I found this to be true of another book I bought this
> > summer!  Astrid Hansen's new book, "Femten Bredere:
> > Tonderkniplinger" also has diagrams that have very lightly
> > drawn lines in bright colors...  IOW, hard to read (and hard
> > to reproduce as well, I would imagine.
> > This particular book just sold on eBay for $88 !!  Since
> > it's a current book, and sells for 33 Euro, I can't imagine
> > why anyone would spend that much on it!!
> >
> > I'm suspecting that publishers are trying to make it harder
> > for people to copy from a friend's book (or a library
> > book...), but for those of us who own our books and don't
> > like to break the spine while we use the diagram, making
> > copies is the best way to do it.  And that is perfectly
> > legal, but now it's probably going to be more difficult.
> >
> > Clay
>
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Re: [lace] RE: Channer's Mat

[palmhaven]

Sylvia dislocated her knee a couple of months ago.  She is somewhat crippled
up from that, so that gives her a bit more time at the pillow.  Further, she
is like a dog with a bone or should I say a lot of them.  She laces 6 to 8
hours a day and I have gotten up a few times at 2 or 3 A.M. to find her
sitting in a dark house with just the OTT light on over her pillow, pins in
her mouth and both hands moving bobbins back and forth.  She says that is
because she can't find a good "stopping" place. She laces even while
watching T.V. and if she could lace while eating, she would.  She does not
pre-prick and believes pre-pricking a waste of time and effort.  In seven
years she has had one class, Floral Bucks with Holly Van Sciver.  She taught
herself with John Hensel's tapes and every lace book she could buy.  Is
there not a Lacer's Anonymous out there somewhere?

Tom, Sylvia's DH



- Original Message -
From: "Ian & Chelle Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: [lace] RE: Channer's Mat


> Gidday Sylvia and all,
>
> >I just finished Miss Channer's Mat.  Tricky little devil.
> >You can see it and some of my other finished projects on my web site
>
> Congratulations. As someone who is nearly half way through it I am envious
> that you have finished already.  I can't believe you've done it so fast!
I
> started it in Feb this year, and even with 3 months of not doing any due
to
> it being in storage when we moved, I still can't imagine doing it in such
a
> short time. You must not have slept, ate, cooked, washed or done anything
> else during that time!  I try to do at least an hour a day, don't always
> manage it but usually do, and still I can't comprehend finishing it so
> quickly. I'll be lucky to get it done by Christmas, which is my current
aim.
> Trouble is there are so many other lace/craft projects beckoning to me to
be
> done!  I just received the Tina book and also Binche Syllabus I, so my
list
> of patterns waiting to be done just keeps getting longer and longer.
>
> Michelle
> an Aussie living in Suriname
>
>
> Ian & Chelle Long
> +597 352505
>
> -
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[lace] RE: Thank God - IT IS DONE!!!

[palmhaven]

Dear Spiders,

I just finished Miss Channer's Mat.  Tricky little devil.
You can see it and some of my other finished projects on my web site

http://home.earthlink.net/~palmhaven/

I beg your patience the pictures load vry sllloooly.

Sylvia

Deep in Tropical Texas

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Re: [lace] Brok 100/3

[palmhaven]

Rumor has it that Brok is going out of business and will not be making their
100/3  or any other thread.

Tom

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Re: [lace] Lace Peacocks Book & Lace Fans Book

[palmhaven]

Dorte,

Do you know anyone who carries it so I can order the book?

Sylvia


- Original Message -
From: "Dorte Zielke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] Lace Peacocks Book & Lace Fans Book


> Price on the peacook is 24.50 euro
> Dorte
>
> http://www.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dorte_zielke/my_photos
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:53 PM
> Subject: [lace] Lace Peacocks Book & Lace Fans Book
>
>
> > Dear Lacemakers,
> >
> > Since there was the inquiry about the "Spitzen Pfauen" book, I thought
I'd
> > write (in English!) about it and about the sister book "Spitzen Facher",
> both
> > published in 2004 by Deutscher Kloeppelverband, in German language.
They
> gave a
> > web address in the books, but it did not work for me.  You could try a
> > publisher search (might work for you), or the e-mail they gave:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Ask where these books are available in other nations.  I purchased these
> at
> > the DK booth at OIDFA-Prague.  Both are very beautiful, on high-quality
> glossy
> > paper, in color, and have the patterns.  I am using the word "patterns",
> > because some are for needlelace and that language term better covers
both.
> >
> > Lace Peacocks:  Soft Cover, 44 pages, large sheet of patterns inserted
in
> > back (loose - no pocket).  DK books are often written in chapters by a
> group
> > (committee?), and this is done in that format by 8 authors.  There are
> many photos
> > of peacocks from various countries, techniques and eras in beginning of
> the
> > book.  For example, one is a Point d'Angleterre from the Metropolitan
> Museum of
> > Art.  There are 24 new patterns - the way I read it.  When I purchased
the
> > books, I requested that they write the price inside the covers.  This
was
> not
> > done with this book, so I cannot give it to you.
> >
> > Lace Fans:  Hard Cover, 160 pages, 39 Euros.  Many pages of text in
German
> > that everyone would like to be able to read.  Lovely pictures of antique
> fans.
> > Then, the modern -- patterns are printed within the text - sometimes
> across
> > two pages.  From the index, I'd say there are more than 40 patterns
(some
> of
> > which have variations) which have been "contributed" from many
lacemakers.
> > Includes one fan that is called an "armbandfacher", which is an
elongated
> triangle.
> >  Not sure how effective this is as a fan!  The owner "wears" this fan on
> her
> > wrist like a bracelet; it has a circular opening for the hand (I might
> prefer
> > an oval opening for greater comfort).  The last fan is a "facherbrosche"
> which
> > I interpret to be a brooch - to be worn on the person or in the hair.
> Many
> > of the modern laces are in color, and are very innovative.  There is a
> > teaser-fan, by which I mean I think there is no pattern, by Annelies de
> Kort - the
> > miniaturist who is active on Arachne.  It is titled "Ausfuhrung".
Sadly,
> for
> > her, the picture is probably the only one in the book that seems
blurred,
> and I
> > have no idea what the subject is.  One other confusion:  I could not
match
> the
> > needlelace pattern on page 158 to a picture.
> >
> > Anyone who collects items with a peacock motif or fans would LOVE these
> > books, even if you cannot read them.  However, these two books again
> illustrate
> > **how frustrating it is to not be able to purchase translations** for
> expensive
> > books!
> >
> > Do you like to have book reviews appear on Arachne, or would you prefer
> they
> > be submitted for publication in various lace bulletins?
> >
> > Jeri Ames in Maine USA
> > Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
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Re: [lace] Lace Peacocks Book & Lace Fans Book

[palmhaven]

Dear Jeri,

Thank you for the book review.  It was quite informative.  I do love peafowl
and will look into obtaining the book.

Sylvia



- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: [lace] Lace Peacocks Book & Lace Fans Book


> Dear Lacemakers,
>
> Since there was the inquiry about the "Spitzen Pfauen" book, I thought I'd
> write (in English!) about it and about the sister book "Spitzen Facher",
both
> published in 2004 by Deutscher Kloeppelverband, in German language.  They
gave a
> web address in the books, but it did not work for me.  You could try a
> publisher search (might work for you), or the e-mail they gave:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Ask where these books are available in other nations.  I purchased these
at
> the DK booth at OIDFA-Prague.  Both are very beautiful, on high-quality
glossy
> paper, in color, and have the patterns.  I am using the word "patterns",
> because some are for needlelace and that language term better covers both.
>
> Lace Peacocks:  Soft Cover, 44 pages, large sheet of patterns inserted in
> back (loose - no pocket).  DK books are often written in chapters by a
group
> (committee?), and this is done in that format by 8 authors.  There are
many photos
> of peacocks from various countries, techniques and eras in beginning of
the
> book.  For example, one is a Point d'Angleterre from the Metropolitan
Museum of
> Art.  There are 24 new patterns - the way I read it.  When I purchased the
> books, I requested that they write the price inside the covers.  This was
not
> done with this book, so I cannot give it to you.
>
> Lace Fans:  Hard Cover, 160 pages, 39 Euros.  Many pages of text in German
> that everyone would like to be able to read.  Lovely pictures of antique
fans.
> Then, the modern -- patterns are printed within the text - sometimes
across
> two pages.  From the index, I'd say there are more than 40 patterns (some
of
> which have variations) which have been "contributed" from many lacemakers.
> Includes one fan that is called an "armbandfacher", which is an elongated
triangle.
>  Not sure how effective this is as a fan!  The owner "wears" this fan on
her
> wrist like a bracelet; it has a circular opening for the hand (I might
prefer
> an oval opening for greater comfort).  The last fan is a "facherbrosche"
which
> I interpret to be a brooch - to be worn on the person or in the hair.
Many
> of the modern laces are in color, and are very innovative.  There is a
> teaser-fan, by which I mean I think there is no pattern, by Annelies de
Kort - the
> miniaturist who is active on Arachne.  It is titled "Ausfuhrung".  Sadly,
for
> her, the picture is probably the only one in the book that seems blurred,
and I
> have no idea what the subject is.  One other confusion:  I could not match
the
> needlelace pattern on page 158 to a picture.
>
> Anyone who collects items with a peacock motif or fans would LOVE these
> books, even if you cannot read them.  However, these two books again
illustrate
> **how frustrating it is to not be able to purchase translations** for
expensive
> books!
>
> Do you like to have book reviews appear on Arachne, or would you prefer
they
> be submitted for publication in various lace bulletins?
>
> Jeri Ames in Maine USA
> Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] First Milanese Piece

[palmhaven]

Thank you for sharing.  Those are really very pretty pieces and they are
very well done.

Sylvia

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[lace] Re: Spitzen Pfauen

[palmhaven]

In the book review section of the latest KANTBRIEF there is a book
entitled Spitzen Pfauen.  It is all lace peacocks.  Does anyone know where
this book can be purchased?
Sylvia Andrews
Tip of Texas

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[lace] Re: Bobbin Roll

[palmhaven]

Does anyone have a pattern or know how to make a "Bobbin Roll?"

Sylvia,
 in the Sunny Southern Tip of Texas.

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Re: [lace] Lace pictures

[palmhaven]

Yes Malvary, the lace is well designed and professionally executed.   The
colors were well done.  The only thing my husband said was he enjoyed the
lace but hates snakes.

Sylvia Andrews



- Original Message -
From: "Elizabeth Ligeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: [lace] Lace pictures


> Great pictures of your lace, Malvary.
> I especially love the trillium - great design, and pretty colours.
>
> Thanks, Jean, for the information about the embroidered cards.  Mine are
> priceless, though!!  Grandad sent them to my Mother, and her sisters, so
no
> collector could find enough money to buy them!!!
>
> >>"" (It is so well-filed, that I have been looking for it for two
> years!)""<<
> Jeri, I, too, have a "Safe Place" where I keep things, - But I can't
> remember where it is!  So I can't find things either!!  I know they are
> safely tucked away in This room somewhere, but I think the gremlins have
> hidden the "Safe Place" away, out of sight!!!   What a treasure trove it
> will be when I find it :))
>
> from Liz in Melbourne, Oz,  -  Where it is cold and grey, - but spring
can't
> be too far away, as I have mini daffodils, and grape hyacinths in bloom!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: [lace] Karisse Moore's question

[palmhaven]

I think the filling you are looking for may be a "Mayflower" and it would
look nice and balanced with the other filling and tallies.

Sylvia

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Re: [lace] A simple question

[palmhaven]

Dear David,

The passives that are between your coarse thread and the footside edge are
treated as a bundle with the coarse thread in chantilly.  You go through the
coarse thread and passives together as if they were a gimp thread.  You
don't do chantilly like bucks.  I would like to see your work when you are
done.  You can refer to page 6 in Lia Baumeister-Jonker's book on
Chantilly - excellent reference work.

Sylvia Andrews



- Original Message -
From: "David Collyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: [lace] A simple question


> Dear Friends,
> Here's a question I just thought up today after quite a few years of lace
> making now.
>
> In working this very complex Chantilly cloth, I find a problem which also
> often arises in Bucks Point. The number of passives between the work and
> the picots on the edge (can never remember which is headside and which is
> footside :) can vary from 2 pairs to 14 pairs. I find that when I'm using
> the very fine 2/20 silk and I have to tension up the 14 or so pairs,
that's
> when I'm most likely to break threads.
>
> As I do NOT want to subject my 2 cats to any more obscene language than is
> absolutely necessary, I was wondering whether there might be a few little
> clues lurking away out there in Arachne Land, to avoid these breakages.
> I've wondered whether it would make any difference if I tensioned from the
> outside or the inside; whether I tension each bobbin individually or in
> pairs; should I tension each pair as I pass through, rather than wait till
> I've gone through all 14 pairs etc. etc.
>
> I only broke 3 threads today - but each one seemed so un-necessary - and I
> think Mother was rolling over in her grave with what I uttered. At least
> Roxy's getting a bit too old to hear it all. Had to have a stiff vodka.
> Love
> David in Ballarat
>
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Re: [lace] V & A Book and Postagess

[palmhaven]

Ladies,

Someone should tell your publishers about e-books.  They are sent as
downloadable files. You can then take it to a place (like Kinko's in the
states) and they will print it for you for less than the postage or you can
read it on your monitor.  The books are usually cheaper because they don't
have to print and bind them.  Of course you don't have the glossy pages, but
you also don't have the cost.

Tom Andrews

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Re: [lace] YLI silk

[palmhaven]

Bev,

I used button hole silk twist.  With 100 the following also works:  Kreinik
Soie Perlee which is usually available at embroidery shops; a little thinner
gimp would be Caron Waterlillies using a single strand, this also comes in
color, this comes from an embroidery store also; Mulberry Silk, 30/3 or
40/3.  I do not know who sells it.

Sylvia









- Original Message - 
From: "Bev Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "palmhaven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] YLI silk


> Sylvia wrote:
>
> > YLI silk is very strong and works up extremely well.  I have used it and
>
> Bev responds:
>
> Excellent endorsement - I think I'd like to try it for Bucks then - what
> gimp thread I wonder? I have some silk 'cord' used in tassel making that
> might be suitable.
>
> bye for now
> Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada)
>
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Re: [lace] YLI silk

[palmhaven]

Dear Bev,

YLI silk is very strong and works up extremely well.  I have used it and
love it.  I like it so much I am tempted to use the 100 size for all my
Bucks from now on.

Sylvia


> Hi everyone
>
> I'd like to hear from anyone who has used YLI silk (on the spool) for
> bobbin lace. It is available at quilt suppliers. Was it pleasant to work
> with, how did it stand up to use - when I use Gutermann's, it unplies on
> me.
>
> Thanks for any info.
> -- 
> bye for now
> Bev (going nuts in May  in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada)
>
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Re: [lace] Is everyone on holiday?

[palmhaven]

No, we are not on holiday, we are busy making lace!

Sylvia


- Original Message - 
From: "Jean Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lace Arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 6:52 AM
Subject: [lace] Is everyone on holiday?


> Good morning All,
> Is it just me or has everyone gone away for the weekend? Only 2 males
> yesterday and 3 this morning. Or have I messed up my mailboxes, Again?
> Jean in Cleveland U.K.
>
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Re: [lace] expensive tatting shuttle!

[palmhaven]

Ladies,

Mauchline is a town in Southwest Scotland which is famous for its wares,
which include snuff boxes, needle tools, etc., all made from wood.   They
are highly collectible and that shuttle will probably never be used, if it
ever was. If you would like to learn more about Mauchline and it's products
the following URL will be helpful.
http://www.artbookservices.com/articles/may97/may97_4.html

As to the sewing kit, anything from Palais Royal is only the finest of
craftmanship, highly prized by collectors, and again will most likely never
be used.  It is not a simple "French Sewing Kit."  That would be like
calling a Stradivarius a "fiddle." Some collectors will look for similar
items and transfer mint tools to a mint box and have an absolutely priceless
collection.

You have crossed the threshhold and are now into the world of antiques and
collectibles.

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Re: [lace] expensive bobbin

[palmhaven]

Actually, not.  This is not the most expensive bobbin in the world.  When I
commissioned Stuart Johnson to make Sylvia the bone and 18 Kt. gold bobbins
and then had to have 18Kt gold beads made to spangle them, I thought they
were the most expensive bobbins in the world.  Then Brian Lemmin told me of
an antique bobbin that sold for more than one of Sylvia's at auction.
However, I priced some solid gold bobbins this past Christmas and they
without spangles would have run 900 pounds.  Maybe next year.

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Re: [lace] Re: Sally Barry's book --- also Waterlily Bucks pattern

[palmhaven]

Dear Karen and all,

Please note that there is no corner in the Stott book.  However, there are
three prickings of corners that go with the waterlilly pattern in Christine
Springett's  "Fine Buckinghamshire Point Lace Patterns Belonging to the
Misses Sivewright and Pope" book.  Say that fast with a drink between each
one.

Sylvia.


- Original Message - 
From: "Karen Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: [lace] Re: Sally Barry's book --- also Waterlily Bucks pattern


> Dear Anita,
>
> There is a version of the Waterlily pattern in A Visual Introduction to
> Bucks Point Lace by Geraldine Stott, published by Batsford.  According to
> the book, there are many variations of this pattern.
>
> The book is still in print.  I currently have a library copy, but have
> recently ordered direct from the publishers:
> http://www.chrysalisbooks.co.uk/books/search
> Batsford are part of the Chrysalis group.
>
> Karen,
> in Coventry, where it looks like we are in for a heavy frost tonight.
>
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Re: [lace] tatting directions

[palmhaven]

I am trying to make the tatting shuttle case on page 32 of "TATTING WITH
FRIENDS".  The directions say, " R1-(13) times close ring.  Create a mock
picot (14th) using the lock stitch or by tying the treads together.  Split
ring 2/2 close ring."
How many stitches are the rings made of?
Sylvia Andrews
tip of Texas

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Re: [lace] PayPal questions/off topic

[palmhaven]

I get those all the time from e-bay.  These companies do not solicit
information in this manner.  They do not come from e-bay and the return
actually is redirected to people who are trying to get enough information to
steal your identity.  I have in the past reported this to e-bay and
government agencies like the FBI, police, etc.  They claim the guys are gone
before they can get there.

So I started putting in bogus names, numbers, and addresses.  Then on some I
have even put in cuss words, etc.  and sent the garbage back to them.

- Original Message - 
From: "Celtic Dream Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "shut tat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"shuttle tat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "arachne lacing"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:30 PM
Subject: [lace] PayPal questions/off topic


>   This afternoon I got a email from PayPal.com stating that if I don't
update my information for my account that then I will no longer be able to
use paypal. My question is thiswith all the people trying to get private
information from us concerning our ebay accounts and other accounts
illegally...how do I know this is coming from them (being paypal ) and not
someone that wants my information to take me to the cleaners. Who do I
trust. This has left me with I don't know what to do. Has anybody else
recieved such emails and what have you done about them. What a world where
you CAN"T TRUST anyone.:(
> Sherry
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>
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[lace] tatting thread

[palmhaven]

When I was in our local needlework shop today, the owner suggested that I
try Wildflowers thread by Caron for tatting.  Has anyone tried this and how
does it work up?

Sylvia Andrews
tip of Texas

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Re: [lace] brass bobbins

[palmhaven]

Does anyone know who makes or sells brass bobbins?

Sylvia Andrews
Tip of Texas

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Re: [lace] Re: Ithaca Lace Day

[palmhaven]

Its sounds like the Ithaca Lace day was something that I am very sorry
that I missed.  I am enjoying reading everyone's experiences.  Kenn's
description of his Beds piece intrigues me.  Would it be possible for the
people that went to post images of their projects when they finish them?

Sylvia Andrews (Green with envy)
tip of Texas

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Re: [lace] Test - sorry

[palmhaven]

Message Received but everyone else is at Lace Days in Ithaca which seems
bigger than the convention.

Tom Andrews, DH to Sylvia

- Original Message - 
From: "Sue Babbs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:46 PM
Subject: [lace] Test - sorry


> My computer has collapsed and been resuscitated, but I've just realized
that I haven't seen messages from the
> lists for a while, so I am just running a test to see if I can send to the
list. Sorry to do this. I
> appreciate the list may just be in quiet mode
> Sue
>
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Re: [lace] Is Lace Declining? - Can anybody help?

[palmhaven]

Dear Julia,

The Embroidery Guild of America is having the same problems as the lace
society.  There is a dangerous decline in hand sewing and bobbin lace
making.

If you would really like to ingratiate yourself with all your fellow lace
makers and needle craft cousins, tell them how to reverse the trend.  Then
to prove your dissertation, you could implement it.

Tom Andrews

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Re: [lace] Re: Working with silk thread

[palmhaven]

I must be doing something wrong!  I have never ( knock on wood)  had any
trouble working with silk.  I find it much easier to work with than linen or
cotton.  I am fairly new to silk and love it so much that I  may use it
whenever I can get away with it now.
We don't have any lace police in south Texas.

Sylvia Andrews

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[lace] Re: gimp

[palmhaven]

Can anyone suggest a good silk thread to use as gimp with YLI 100 silk
thread?
Sylvia Andrews
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] - Channer mat

[palmhaven]

God, same me from that statement.  I better delete this before DW sees it.


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] - Channer mat


> Spiders,
>
> To paraphrase the late duchess of Windsor - one can never have too many
> bobbins or books
>
> Liz
>
>
> In a message dated 06/09/2003 07:56:10 GMT Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > Subj: Re: [lace] - Channer mat
> >  Date: 06/09/2003 07:56:10 GMT Daylight Time
> >  From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  Sent from the Internet
> >
> >
> > --- LeAnn Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>
> > >[One of the silliest questions my DH has ever asked me is "but do you
> > >really *need* all of those books?  Are you actually going to use them?"
> > >
> > >"Of course I am." I replied.  .  He's never asked again. ]
> >
> > I know I've said this before, but let me point out again, that Miss
> > Channer's
> > mat (or any other lace pattern which uses lots and lots of bobbins) is
the
> > *best* excuse a wife can have for buying new bobbins.   By the time I
had a
> > hundred bobbins, my DH was commenting:  "but you must have enough
bobbins by
> > now!"   And I felt guilty every time I sneaked another one into the
house!
> > But...with Miss Channer's mat prominently displayed on the "to do" pile,
> > he's
> > quite happy to encourage me to buy bobbins till the cows come home -
after
> > all,
> > even an accountant knows you needs lots of bobbins to work it
> > Ruth Budge (laughing all the way to the bobbin shop!)
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Liz Beecher
>
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Re: [lace] --Channer mat - reprinting

[palmhaven]

Dear Aurelia,

Yes, I agree but Roses and Thistles Handkerchief takes *more* bobbins than
Miss Channer's mat.

Your references to *getting off of Channer's Mat* and facing Eastward
brought up the question of whether the *mat* was a prayer rug.

Tom Andrews



- Original Message - 
From: "Aurelia L. Loveman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "David Collyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [lace] --Channer mat - reprinting


> Your info about reprinting is very interesting, and I don't doubt that as
a
> partial result of it, the number of Arachne-novelists is going to increase
> in the coming year! Good! Time we got past Montupet's "The Lacemaker."
>
> But it's also time we got past Miss Channer's mat! For the last 3 or 4
> weeks I've been trying to get people to notice --other! more beautiful!
> more challenging! less bobbin-laden!!-- pieces. F.i., Misses Sivewright &
> Pope (ed. Christine Springett); or the gorgeous "Roses and Thistles"
> handkerchief made by Christine Agambar, a gem, a jewel, and printed in
> Underwood's "Collection" (publ., incidentally, by Ruth Bean!). Gorgeous!
> Miss Channer's mat is indeed very nice, but it isn't gorgeous.
>
> And for those who want to face eastward toward the continent, there is
> Michael Giusiana's staggering new book of Binche handkerchiefs. Again,
Miss
> Channer's mat is pretty, but it isn't staggering.
>
> Arachnes, do hear me! Let's get off Miss Channer's mat!  --  Aurelia
>
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Re: [lace] Dentelles Normandes - La Blonde de Caen

[palmhaven]

Dear Jeri, do you have a copy of the translation for sale?  I just acquired
the book which is out of print but a few copies are left here and there.
Alas, however, I cannot find the translation.  If you would sell one I would
be most obliged.

Sylvia Andrews



- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:28 AM
Subject: [lace] Dentelles Normandes - La Blonde de Caen


> In a message dated 9/3/03 3:28:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << I have a copy of a book called Dentelles Normandes - La Blonde de Caen
by
>  Claudette and Michel Bouvot, published in 1997 I think, by Editions -
>  Charles Corlet, soft back ISBN 2-85480-695-6. Pre euro 220F. Lots of
>  coloured illustrations, old lacemakers, old lace, some polychrome, and
>  prickings - collar, miniature fan, edgings and motifs.
>  Diana (Northamptonshire, UK) >>
> -
> Dear Lacemakers,
>
> For those who require an English translation, this earlier book by the
> Bouvot's has a substantial translation by Patricia Turner.  My book
inventory says
> translation was $10/U.S.  Many thanks to the Bouvot's for realizing the
need
> for a translation.  (We need to encourage this type of consideration, with
> lavish words of appreciation.)
>
> I really enjoyed reading the history of Normandy laces, the lacemakers'
> stories, the accounts of exhibitions, etc. as presented in this book from
France.
> There is even the story of the author's great-grandmother who found that
> lacemaking all night was an effective form of birth control!  A very funny
cartoon
> to illustrate this memory is on page 128.  (Sorry for any duplication of
my
> previous book review to Arachne on 10/28/00.)
>
> The Blonde book has 159 pages, and only 11 patterns with prickings (for
> someone like Tamara who needs to move her bobbins in tandem with devouring
a book).
>  The emphasis is on Blonde, with the inclusion of some polychrome and some
> metallic laces for "icing on the cake".  The iris fan is on page 110.
>
> The reason for my previous memo was to be sure that anyone interested in
> Courseulles lace would be aware of the quite similar titles and be aware
of the
> differences between the two publications.
>
> Jeri Ames in Maine USA
> Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
>
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Re: [lace] Re Looking for a book

[palmhaven]

For anyone looking for Dentelles Normandes-La Blonde de Caen.  Theo Brejaart
has one book left.

Sylvia Andrews

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Re: [lace] Channer's Mat/ challenge

[palmhaven]

If you really want a challenge, why not try making lace with your pillow in
the position that this doll has her pillow?  O.K. girls, What else can you
find wrong with this picture? Have fun!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2948055885

Sylvia Andrews

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Re: [lace] Channer's Mat

[palmhaven]

This makes Miss Channer's mat look like kindergarten work!

http://blondecaen.chez.tiscali.fr/cou7.htm#cou7

Sylvia Andrews

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Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)

[palmhaven]

Joy, one should never quote themselves.

The "skew", using your words is a factual question and would go to a jury.

Whether Buck's pricking of the Channer Mat is even copyrightable by Bean  or
Buck is a thorny legal question, since Channer had published the mat
previously and it was already in the public domain.

However, as to the mat.  I thought is was a place mat for dinner but a
bathmat may be more appropriate.  The question is not as simple or
straightforward as some have claimed on their web sites.  Let me give you an
example.

In Harper and Rowe v. Nations 471 U.S. 539 the Supreme Court of the United
States said the following:

[17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished
nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing
fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report
states:


A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether
or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is "out of
print" and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may
have more justification for reproducing it.



And again in Twentieth Century Music Corp. v. Aiken:


The immediate effect of our copyright law is to secure a fair return for an
"author's" creative labor. But the ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to
stimulate [the creation of useful works] for the general public good.



Economists who have addressed the issue believe the fair use exception
should come into play only in those situations in which the market fails or
the price the copyright holder would ask is near zero. See, e.g., T.
Brennan, Harper & Row v. The Nation, Copyrightability and Fair Use, Dept. of
Justice Economic Policy Office Discussion Paper 13-17 (1984); Gordon, Fair
Use as Market Failure: A Structural and Economic Analysis of the Betamax
Case and its Predecessors, 82 Colum.L.Rev. 1600, 1615 (1982).



Then as to percent change there is this from the Court:

The copyright owner's rights, however, are subject to certain statutory
exceptions. §§ 107-118. Among these is § 107, which codifies the traditional
privilege of other authors to make "fair use" of an earlier writer's work. [

In addition, no author may copyright facts or ideas. § 102. The copyright is
limited to those aspects of the work -- termed "expression" -- that display
the stamp of the author's originality.



Yet copyright does not prevent subsequent users from copying from a prior
author's work those constituent elements that are not original -- for
example, quotations borrowed under the rubric of fair use from other
copyrighted works, facts, or materials in the public domain -- as long as
such use does not unfairly appropriate the author's original contributions.
Ibid.; A. Latman, Fair Use of Copyrighted Works (1958), reprinted as Study
No. 14 in Copyright Law Revision Studies Nos. 1416, prepared for the Senate
Committee on the Judiciary, 86th Cong., 2d Sess., 7 (1960) (hereinafter
Latman). Perhaps the controversy between the lower courts in this case over
copyrightability is more aptly styled a dispute over whether The Nation's
appropriation of unoriginal and uncopyrightable elements encroached on the
originality embodied in the work as a whole.


Perhaps because the fair use doctrine was predicated on the author's implied
consent to "reasonable and customary" use when he released his work for
public consumption, fair use traditionally was not recognized as a defense
to charges [p*551] of copying from an author's as yet unpublished works. ?
Ô Under common law copyright, "the property of the author . . . in his
intellectual creation [was] absolute until he voluntarily part[ed] with the
same." American Tobacco Co. v. Werckmeister, 207 U.S. 284, 299 (1907); 2
Nimmer § 8.23, at 8-273. This absolute rule, however, was tempered in
practice by the equitable nature of the fair use doctrine. In a given case,
factors such as implied consent through de facto publication on performance
or dissemination of a work may tip the balance of equities in favor of
prepublication use. See Copyright Law Revision -- Part 2: Discussion and
Comments on Report of the Register of Copyrights on General Revision of the
U.S. Copyright Law, 88th Cong., 1st Sess., 27 (H.R. Comm. Print 1963)
(discussion suggesting works disseminated to the public in a form not
constituting a technical "publication" should nevertheless be subject to
fair use); 3 Nimmer § 13.05, at 13-62, n.



[17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished
nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing
fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report
states:

A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether
or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is "out of
print" and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may
have more justification for reproducing it. .



And again i

Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)

[palmhaven]

You are right, Tamara, I don't think the name has a ring I would want to be
associated with.  Besides there can't be that many legal questions to lace.

Your reasoning is sound about the tax quagmire.  It is not worth it.  Unless
you can show a profit every five years it is considered a hobby anyway
(horse farms are 7 years).  I have been a member of the Tax Court bar for 26
years.

There are so few of you, compared to the population, that there is not ever
going to be much of a profit in publishing anything.  I don't even think
that hour for hour you could make minimum wage making lace.  It is a great
hobby, keeps DW out of the bars and off the street, and is far less
expensive than shopping.  My advice to you all, is to forget these
meaningless legalities, enjoy what you are doing, and spend more time lacing
and less time worried about the rules of the game.

Keep on Lacing,  Tom Andrews




- Original Message - 
From: "Tamara P. Duvall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Arachne lace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:23 AM
Subject: [lace] Copyright -- again :)


> On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:25 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (Devon)wrote:
>
> > I had the interesting experience of writing an article for the IOL
> > Bulletin
> > and later receiving a request to translate it into German for
> > publication in a
> > German Lace Mag. I had no idea what the legal status of this request
> > was. I
> > had no objection to it being republished. In fact, I was flattered. I
> > asked the
> > IOL and they had no idea whether their permission was required, but
> > said they
> > had no objection.
>
> In general, for anything you publish in IOLI, you keep the copyright
> (probably because, while you get a "thank you" of some sort, you do not
> get *paid*. I wonder if I should be reporting my extra copies of the
> Bulletin and/or the thank-you bobbins to IRS, and pay taxes on
> them???), and their permision to republish (in English or any other
> language) is not needed, if someone else wants the article/pattern.
> Competition entries are a bit of a "gray area", because, when you
> enter, you sign the permission for "first dibs" to go to IOLI -- the
> pattern/etc is still yours, and you can publish it anywhere you want,
> but only if IOLI is not interested in publishing it *first*.
>
> I always assume that anything I send for a publication in a magazine,
> is "free for all", without any copyright issues involved; if Robin
> wants to copy a pattern for every member of her guild, I have no
> objection -- quite the opposite :)
>
> I used to get asked permission about reprints/copies, and responding
> was more trouble than it was worth, so then I tried putting in
> something like "feel free to make copies, but give credit to me for
> designing" with the patterns. I should have added: "and let me know
> you've done so, as my reward"; a pattern got reproduced, I only heard
> about it from third parties -- a lot of bad feelings all around :)
>
> I was also -- once -- asked to *sell* a pattern, and the woman had a
> hard time taking a "no" for the answer. It was the "Swan" (what else
> ). I told her it had been published in IOLI -- her customers don't
> subscribe to it (she was Swedish, I think)... I told her it was
> available to anyone who wanted it on a website -- her customers didn't
> know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter
> the tax quagmire for the "cut" I might be expected to get, and she gave
> up pestering me...
>
> For all I know, she'd found the website, printed it off, and is
> peddling the pattern to the un-clued. If she does, I think I'd be
> irritated a bit to learn about it, though it would be an irrational
> feeling -- I don't mind people copying for their (and/or ther friends')
> use; I don't mind people making up a pattern in a 100 copies to sell
> (either for personal profit or for the benefit of a charity), so why
> "stick" at someone copying a pattern to sell? All I can say is that, to
> me, it would not be "honourable"...
>
> To change the subject *slightly*...
>
> In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the
> 15-20% of "skew", when it came to an original (artistic) design...
> Well, I know at least one person who'd done it *mathematically* :)
> Bought a cross-stitch kit, which depicted a sail-boat on a calm sea.
> Changed the *direction* in which the pennant was flying (so, OK, it no
> longer made sense from the *physics* perspective; but there's such a
> thing as "artistic extension" ), and entered it as an original
> design in a county crafts fair. Won, too, I seem to remember. And very
> proud of herself, for being so clever -- between the boat and the sea,
> the area of the pennant was well above the 15%... Takes all kinds :)
>
> > Perhaps the IOL is missing a bet. It should have Tom write a regular
> > feature
> > called "Copyright Corner"
>
> Not a bad idea. Though "Uncle Tom's Corner" seems an inescapable title
> for

Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues (Soapbox)

[palmhaven]

Do you know the date of the copyright and whether it was copyrighted by Bean
or Buck.  Is Buck dead?

As to morality? Is it moral to sit on something that you cannot profit from
and keep it from the rest of the world just because you have a *legal* right
to do so?

Tom Andrews



- Original Message - 
From: "Panza, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Marcie Greer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Arachne (E-mail)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues (Soapbox)


> >>>From: Marcie Greer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Second, this is a sterling example of the flaw in the ridiculous length
> of copyright duration. Catherine Channer died in 1949 and Ruth Bean
> Publications is sitting on her work, making it unavailable to those Miss
> Channer devoted her time and talents to during her lifetime! <<<
>
> It's my understanding that Miss Channer's mat, or a photograph of it, are
> all that survived her death--NOT a pricking.  Anne Buck developed a
pattern
> from a photograph of the mat, Bean published Buck's pricking and a picture
> of Buck's piece--NOT the original mat.  I don't know if Bean commissioned
> the piece or the designer offered it to Bean.  I also don't know how much
> change there was from the original mat and the developed design, but we
> assume Bean was legal in all this.  Either the mat was changed enough, or
it
> was late enough, to not violate Channer's estate's copyright.
>
> The copyright we are in danger of infringing is Bean's/Buck's pricking.
As
> I understand it, if someone got a photo of the original mat and developed
> their own pricking, that would be legal.  If they reproduced Bean's/Buck's
> pricking, they would be in violation of Bean's copyright.
>
> Robin P.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
> http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues

[palmhaven]

Although not hard and fast.  The cases I have read would indicate that a
Fifteen percent (15%) change would be a "new" design.  I'd go Twenty percent
(20%) to be sure.   How you measure that is a jury question.  I might
suggest you leave out the hard parts.

Tom



- Original Message - 
From: "Clay Blackwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues


> Hi Tom, and Devon, and other lacemakers!
>
> To take this question in a slightly different direction, how
> much would the original design have to be changed in order
> to call it an original design?  If a creative lacemaker used
> the mat as "inspiration" and made a design that looked a
> great deal like the mat - but was not an exact duplication -
> would that be a violation of copyright?
>
> Clay
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 4:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues
>
>
> > So, Tom, if someone were, hypothetically speaking, not
> that I am advocating
> > it, to very quietly and in a non-public place, photocopy
> the pattern and give
> > it to her friend, how would the damages be reckoned? Ruth
> Bean repeatedly goes
> > on record as saying that it is not worth reprinting.
> However, they did respond
> > with a reminder that they own the copyright at one point
> when someone offered
> > on-line to photocopy it for another person.
> > I don't think anyone is actually proposing to run off as
> many as a hundred
> > copies, and if they did, they would lose their shirts on
> the enterprise, much as
> > Ruth Bean, apparently would if they did it. It is the
> person who reproduces
> > the pattern that suffers economic loss in this scenario,
> so how do you
> > calculate damages? It would be an interesting question for
> a law school exam.
> > It seems to me that every year Ruth Bean is deluged with
> e-mails from people
> > pleading to have them reprint this pattern. This kind of
> annoyance is probably
> > unknown for "The Idiot's Guide to Safe Cracking", for
> instance, but the
> > lacemakers are a fanatically law abiding group.
> > Devon
> > who never advocates law-breaking.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> containing the line:
> > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues

[palmhaven]

If perchance, a hypothetical lacer made a copy of Miss Channer's Mat and
"gave" it to a friend, and if Ruth Bean had someway of knowing about such a
private transaction, and if she could find a lawyer to take the case; she
would be entitled to the "profit" she would have made had she sold the
recipient lacer the pricking.  Hardly worth going after, is it?

Now, maybe some of our British friends could enlighten me on British
copyright law, but in the States a copyright is only good for fifty years
after the death of person who copyrighted it.  Now as memory serves me,
copyrights were recently brought up in Congress and extended in order to put
money in the coffers of Walt Disney, Inc. whose copyrights on his troop of
characters were about to expire.  I wonder if under British copyright law
the copyright on a hundred plus year old mat has not expired.  Besides, I
wouldn't want one.  I would need at least eight for a complete place
setting.  Anyone game?

Tom Andrews

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues


> So, Tom, if someone were, hypothetically speaking, not that I am
advocating
> it, to very quietly and in a non-public place, photocopy the pattern and
give
> it to her friend, how would the damages be reckoned? Ruth Bean repeatedly
goes
> on record as saying that it is not worth reprinting. However, they did
respond
> with a reminder that they own the copyright at one point when someone
offered
> on-line to photocopy it for another person.
> I don't think anyone is actually proposing to run off as many as a hundred
> copies, and if they did, they would lose their shirts on the enterprise,
much as
> Ruth Bean, apparently would if they did it. It is the person who
reproduces
> the pattern that suffers economic loss in this scenario, so how do you
> calculate damages? It would be an interesting question for a law school
exam.
> It seems to me that every year Ruth Bean is deluged with e-mails from
people
> pleading to have them reprint this pattern. This kind of annoyance is
probably
> unknown for "The Idiot's Guide to Safe Cracking", for instance, but the
> lacemakers are a fanatically law abiding group.
> Devon
> who never advocates law-breaking.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues

[palmhaven]

If perchance, a hypothetical lacer made a copy of Miss Channer's Mat and
"gave" it to a friend, and if Ruth Bean had someway of knowing about such a
private transaction, and if she could find a lawyer to take the case; she
would be entitled to the "profit" she would have made had she sold the
recipient lacer the pricking.  Hardly worth going after, is it?

Now, maybe some of our British friends could enlighten me on British copyright
law, but in the States a copyright is only good for fifty years after the
death of person who copyrighted it.  Now as memory serves me, copyrights were
recently brought up in Congress and extended in order to put money in the
coffers of Walt Disney, Inc. whose copyrights on his troop of characters were
about to expire.  I wonder if under British copyright law the copyright on a
hundred plus year old mat has not expired.  Besides, I wouldn't want one.  I
would need at least eight for a complete place setting.  Anyone game?

Tom Andrews

  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [lace] Miss Channer/enforcement issues


  So, Tom, if someone were, hypothetically speaking, not that I am advocating
it, to very quietly and in a non-public place, photocopy the pattern and give
it to her friend, how would the damages be reckoned? Ruth Bean repeatedly goes
on record as saying that it is not worth reprinting. However, they did respond
with a reminder that they own the copyright at one point when someone offered
on-line to photocopy it for another person.
  I don't think anyone is actually proposing to run off as many as a hundred
copies, and if they did, they would lose their shirts on the enterprise, much
as Ruth Bean, apparently would if they did it. It is the person who reproduces
the pattern that suffers economic loss in this scenario, so how do you
calculate damages? It would be an interesting question for a law school exam.
  It seems to me that every year Ruth Bean is deluged with e-mails from people
pleading to have them reprint this pattern. This kind of annoyance is probably
unknown for "The Idiot's Guide to Safe Cracking", for instance, but the
lacemakers are a fanatically law abiding group.
  Devon
  who never advocates law-breaking.

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Re: [lace] Miss Channer/jurisdictional issues

[palmhaven]

Sorry to intrude, Ladies, but as an attorney, I would like to remind you
that law is nothing unless it can be enforced.  Enforcement through the
courts is a very expensive proposition.  Copyright litigation can easily go
into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.  So if the
infraction is not costing enough to warrant the enforcement the matter is
non Justiciable on an economic basis.  As to collecting attorney's fees and
costs from the one committing the infraction?  You cannot get blood from a
turnip, and I don't know too many well heeled lace makers.
I hope that puts a different face on the question.

Tom Andrews

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[lace] RE: Painted Beds

[palmhaven]

Dear Patty Dowden, your painted Beds is exquisite.  Could you please contact
me, I have some questions, if you wouldn't mind.

Sylvia Andrews
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Lighted thread to make lace

[palmhaven]

Wow, what's even brighter is the price.  A piece of lace would cost about
the same as new house.

Tom Andrews
In deep South Texas.

- Original Message - 
From: "palmhaven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jane Viking Swanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Lighted thread to make lace


> That brings a whole new dimension to Polychrome
>
> Tom Andrews, looking over DW's shoulder.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jane Viking Swanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:10 PM
> Subject: [lace] Lighted thread to make lace
>
>
> > Hi All,  We've been having a discussion on chat the brought up
> > this URL www.beingseen.com/My DH found it when he was customizing
his
> > computer.  They have sheets (like paper) and "threads" of stuff that
> lights
> > up.  It does need a power source but
> > if you check the FAQs they cover that there.  I haven't tried it yet
> > but I don't think it's too hard to figure out.  The "thread" DH got is
> about
> > 1/8"-3cm and he threaded it through holes in the his
> > computer case.
> >
> > So anyone up for a challenge?  I'd love to see some lit lace!
> >
> > Jane in Vermont, USA
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
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Re: [lace] Lighted thread to make lace

[palmhaven]

That brings a whole new dimension to Polychrome

Tom Andrews, looking over DW's shoulder.


- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Viking Swanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "arachne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:10 PM
Subject: [lace] Lighted thread to make lace


> Hi All,  We've been having a discussion on chat the brought up
> this URL www.beingseen.com/My DH found it when he was customizing his
> computer.  They have sheets (like paper) and "threads" of stuff that
lights
> up.  It does need a power source but
> if you check the FAQs they cover that there.  I haven't tried it yet
> but I don't think it's too hard to figure out.  The "thread" DH got is
about
> 1/8"-3cm and he threaded it through holes in the his
> computer case.
>
> So anyone up for a challenge?  I'd love to see some lit lace!
>
> Jane in Vermont, USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Simon Toustou

[palmhaven]

If you order after he had filled the orders from the convention (around
January) the time to his shipping is still in weeks and he does have some
*already* made up.  That is if you like the colors and woods he has in
stock.


- Original Message - 
From: "Clay Blackwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Simon Toustou


> Hi Devon -
>
> I just ran across a letter I received from him in 1999 in
> which he quoted me a price for the pillow I wanted and
> indicated that shipping would be $25.  He also said that the
> waiting time would be about 30 days!!  Things have changed a
> *little* since then...  I think the wait is measured in
> months now, not days!
>
> Clay
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [lace] Simon Toustou
>
>
> > In a message dated 08/20/2003 1:26:48 PM Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > > My wife bought one of his pillows and a stand and he
> sent a free
> > > pair of his bobbins for her to try.  Exquisite
> workmanship.  The pillow
> > > drawer was damaged in shipment so when I ordered the
> roller pillow for her
> > > birthday, I returned the drawer and he sent a new one at
> no charge
> >
> > This is the first I have ever heard of Simon shipping
> anything. In fact, the
> > complaint I most often hear is not that his prices are too
> high, but rather
> > that he doesn't ship anything.
> > Exciting development!
> > Devon
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> containing the line:
> > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
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Re: [lace] Simon Toustou

[palmhaven]

He also makes Lace Tools, including but not limited to: Prickers, pin
pushers, pin lifters, divider pins, etc.  The easiest way to find out is to
e-mail the man and ask.  You can get his e-mail address off Lace Fairy's
site.  You can call him, but I would suggest a French interpreter if you do.

Tom Andrews


- Original Message - 
From: "Margot Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Simon Toustou


> > Her question:  What does M. Toustou make other than pillows
> > and tables, and how widespread is his work?
>
>
> He also makes bobbins.
>
> Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
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Re: [lace] Simon Toustou

[palmhaven]

Perhaps you don't have the sequence right, Devon, we order, he ships with
invoice, and we send postal (Canadian) money order immediately.

Postal time from Canada to us here on civilization's edge (Texas - Mexico
border) was about two to three weeks.

( I make the distinction between Canadian and International, because the
cost of a postal money order to Canada is 3.00 and an international one is
around 10.00.)

Hope this helps,

Tom Andrews



- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Simon Toustou


> In a message dated 08/20/2003 1:26:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > My wife bought one of his pillows and a stand and he sent a free
> > pair of his bobbins for her to try.  Exquisite workmanship.  The pillow
> > drawer was damaged in shipment so when I ordered the roller pillow for
her
> > birthday, I returned the drawer and he sent a new one at no charge
>
> This is the first I have ever heard of Simon shipping anything. In fact,
the
> complaint I most often hear is not that his prices are too high, but
rather
> that he doesn't ship anything.
> Exciting development!
> Devon
>
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Re: [lace] Simon Toustou

[palmhaven]

Simon makes all sorts of lacemaker tools including but not limited to
bobbins.  My wife bought one of his pillows and a stand and he sent a free
pair of his bobbins for her to try.  Exquisite workmanship.  The pillow
drawer was damaged in shipment so when I ordered the roller pillow for her
birthday, I returned the drawer and he sent a new one at no charge.
Although some might think his prices are high, they haven't been in any good
furniture stores today or you would know how reasonable he is.  My DW loves
his pillows and highly recommends them.  She even believes the pins hold
better - whatever the significance of that is. I hope that helps.

Tom Andrews



- Original Message - 
From: "Mary L. Tod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Arachne lace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Simon Toustou


> >I have been chatting off-list with a friend about the
> >wonderful lacemaking "goodies" made by Simon Toustou, who
> >lives in Quebec, I believe.  She asked me a question for
> >which I don't have an answer, and I thought I'd ask the
> >list...
> >
> >Her question:  What does M. Toustou make other than pillows
> >and tables, and how widespread is his work?  I know that
> >people all over North America have admired and bought his
> >things...  But I also know that his production is quite
> >limited, as the work is so labor-intensive.   So can anyone
> >give us any insight?
> >
> I wasn't ready to purchase one of his lovely roller pillows this year
> at convention, so I bought some wooden bobbin holders from him. They
> are all in different woods and beautifully finished, and I'm enjoying
> using them on my pillows. I believe he also had turned wooden handled
> tools, but I'm not sure whether he made these himself or was selling
> them for someone else. I'm only saying this because I don't know if
> Mr. Toustou does wood-turning and to what scale if he does.
>
> Don't know how widespread his work is, or how limited his production
> is, but the items he had at his stand at convention were all very
> lovely indeed.
>
> -- 
> Mary, in Baltimore, MD
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: [lace] Kant in de Gouden Eeuw: Lace in the Golden Age

[palmhaven]

Does the book have prickings or just pictures?


- Original Message - 
From: "Clay Blackwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jo Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Kant in de Gouden Eeuw: Lace in the Golden Age


> Josette - I agree with you completely!  I was lucky enough
> to see this book when I attended a workshop and the teacher
> had brought a copy as a gift to our hostess!  The pictures
> are wonderful - not the same old worn out pictures we've
> seen before!  And, of course, the lace is magnificent.
>
> Clay
>
> Clay Blackwell
> Lynchburg, VA, USA
>
> >
> > As some of you may know, a number of members of the LOKK
> have made a new
> > book to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the organization
> > This superbly illustrated book deals with 17th century
> Dutch lace: I
> > recommend it, it is absolutely a must -have!!
> > It is advertised on the site of the organization
> > http://www.lokk.nl/defaultboek.html
> >
> > you can even order it on line if you like
> > Josette from dreadfully hot Bourgogne, France
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Re: [lace] Bone/ivory bobbins

[palmhaven]

Personally, I would prefer smuggling to fraud because at least the purchaser
got what he paid for.  As to the smuggling, what is a little ivory compared
to the tons of drugs.

Tom Andrews
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Re: [lace] IOLI Bulletin

[palmhaven]

Has anyone seen the needlelace that is on the cover of the latest IOLI
bulletin?  It is muticolored and absolutely beautiful.  I would like to do
something similar with point ground.  Does anyone out there know anything
about polychrome lace?
Sylvia Andrews
Rio Grande valley
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[lace] Re: You can be found with just your phone number

[palmhaven]

 A friend sent the following information to me, I felt that if you didn't
> know about it--you WOULD want to know how easily you can be found.

>

> Google has implemented a new feature wherein you can type someone's

> telephone number into the search bar and hit enter and then you will be

> given a map to their house.

>

> Before forwarding this, I tested it by typing my telephone number in

> google.com. My phone number came up, and when I clicked on the MapQuest

> link, it actually mapped out where I live. Quite scary. Please look up

your

> own number. Read below for details.

>

> Think about it--if a child, single person, ANYONE gives out his/her phone

> number, someone can actually now look it up to find out where he/she

lives.

> It's just another privacy issue I have a problem with.

>

> To test whether your phone number is mapped, go to:

>

> Google 

>

> Type your phone number in the search bar with or without dashes (i.e.

> 555-555-1212 or 551212) and hit enter.

>

> If you want to BLOCK Google from divulging your private information,simply

> click on the telephone icon next to your phone number. I removed my name,

> but it takes 48-hours. If you are unlisted in the phone book, you might

not

> be in there, but it is a good idea just to check.

>

> Please forward this information on to friends and family that would like

to

> remove this

> information from google.
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Re: [lace] Ivory bobbins on ebay

[palmhaven]

Unlike Jean I have seen very few people offer certificates on ivory
articles, which I know to be ivory, i.e. chess sets, book marks, jewelry,
etc.  Recently the laws in the U.S. have been altered to allow ivory that
was in the country before C.I.T.E.S. to be reworked and sold.  It is not
allowed to leave the U.S.   One can also legally buy and import ivory
released from an African government.   The really hard part of enforcement
of the ivory laws is that it is very difficult to determine what is or is
not ivory, and the type, like Mammoth, Elephant, etc.  For those interested
you can learn how difficult it is to determine whether something is or is
not ivory by going to
http://www.ivoryhound.com/articles_testing_for_ivory.htm
I have had others say that it would take a laboratory to determine the
origin on some articles.  Most people could not tell an ivory bobbin from a
good bone bobbin.  Ivory at one point was not that expensive - Ivory and
Sterling Silver were used in bagpipes and all manner of jewelry. There were
bobbins made of ivory and still are being made of reworked ivory. Luckily I
have made such an acquisition and not from Mr. Welch.

Tom

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