[lace] Cilaos needle lace
This interesting lace seems to be a variety after reticella. If you have Margaret Stephensâ book on Embroidered Lace â the basic structure is very similar, - except she withdraws all the threads in the square, not cut to the corners and fold the triangles back. The stitches used are different, and the outcome looks different, but the basic idea is very much the same â well to my eyes, anyway! You can also see a relationship[p to Sols/Teneriffe Lace, too. I find it All very interesting, whatever itâs roots! Regards from Liz. I Melbourne, Oz. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Cilaos needle lace
Thanks for the clarification Lorelei! This is a terrific explanation & one I will print out to share with my embroidery friends. I wasn’t thinking about the process, I was focusing on the result. Thanks again. Susan Sent from my iPad > On Aug 30, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Lorelei Halley wrote: > > Susan > I think the distinction between needle lace and embroidery is quite clear, > at least in my own mind. But I am thinking of the structure of the finished > object, and the working methods while it was under construction. If there is > any background woven fabric still existing in the piece, it is embroidery. > The woven fabric forms the substrate, the ground, which holds the thing > together. True needle lace requires the construction of a temporary > scaffolding, in the form of the needle lace sandwich. Now, knotted > Mediterranean needle laces, both Turkish/Armenian and puncetto, don't have > the sandwich or any temporary scaffolding, but they are definitely "stitches > in the air". > > There are several forms of embroidery which use the same filling stitches > used in geometric needle lace: reticella embroidery, all forms of > rectangular cutwork (including Cilaos), Hardanger, and even filet lacis > (square knotted netting decorated with embroidery). > > So in my thinking if woven fabric persists in the object as the structural > framework, it is embroidery. If there is no woven fabric, it is needle lace. > The really difficult one if filet lacis. The very same fillings are used in > that form as in geometric cutwork. But the permanent grounding is hand > knotted square mesh. > > There is also a problem with sol laces. Again, the decorations used may be > the same as in drawn thread embroidery, or much more elaborate. There is a > scaffolding, but it is hand made. > Lorelei > > Subject: [lace] Cilaos needle lace > "how & when do we distinguish between needle lace & lace-like embroidery?" > Susan Hottle USA > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] Cilaos needle lace
Susan I think the distinction between needle lace and embroidery is quite clear, at least in my own mind. But I am thinking of the structure of the finished object, and the working methods while it was under construction. If there is any background woven fabric still existing in the piece, it is embroidery. The woven fabric forms the substrate, the ground, which holds the thing together. True needle lace requires the construction of a temporary scaffolding, in the form of the needle lace sandwich. Now, knotted Mediterranean needle laces, both Turkish/Armenian and puncetto, don't have the sandwich or any temporary scaffolding, but they are definitely "stitches in the air". There are several forms of embroidery which use the same filling stitches used in geometric needle lace: reticella embroidery, all forms of rectangular cutwork (including Cilaos), Hardanger, and even filet lacis (square knotted netting decorated with embroidery). So in my thinking if woven fabric persists in the object as the structural framework, it is embroidery. If there is no woven fabric, it is needle lace. The really difficult one if filet lacis. The very same fillings are used in that form as in geometric cutwork. But the permanent grounding is hand knotted square mesh. There is also a problem with sol laces. Again, the decorations used may be the same as in drawn thread embroidery, or much more elaborate. There is a scaffolding, but it is hand made. Lorelei Subject: [lace] Cilaos needle lace "how & when do we distinguish between needle lace & lace-like embroidery?" Susan Hottle USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Cilaos needle lace
Thank you Sue for sending the Cilaos links! Excellent blog with lots of goodies, including a mini tute for Romanian Point Lace. The Cilaos instructions are super & I will share this resource with my friend. She has taken classes in Ruskin lace & the Cilaos looks similar. Not to put too fine a point on this, but how & when do we distinguish between needle lace & lace-like embroidery? Setting up the foundation fabric (removing threads) to be needle woven seems akin to setting up the warp (passives) in lace. Have conservators & museum experts drawn a dividing line thru a grey area to separate black from white? Am I missing something here? Many thanks. Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA Sent from my iPad - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Cilaos needle lace
Have just found this site: http://blogdefloralie.eklablog.com/comment-faire-les-jours-cilaos-a48648384 where I learn that you can buy Cilaos look-alikes made in Madagascar - much cheaper in St Denis market than in Cilaos! (St Denis is the capital of the Reunion Island) Sue - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Cilaos needle lace
Woops! Tnank you Lin, I forgot the link: http://blogdefloralie.eklablog.com/comment-faire-les-jours-cilaos-a48648384 I didn't say that the prices are astronomic because the embroiderers are paid the minimum French wage; Sue - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Cilaos needle lace
Cilaos is on the Réunion Island, a French Departement It is a form of very elaborate cutwork, and the centre where it is still made (and sold at astronomic prices) is known as the 'Maison de la Broderie' or Embroidery House. Although a lot of Madagascar embroidery is sold in the Reunion, I didn't see anything vaguely resembling 'les jours de Cilaos' in Madagascar - but I didn't travel around a lot. Here is a link to a site which gives basic instructions; it's in French, but even without a translation the photos give an idea of how it's made. When I went to Cilaos, in the pelting rain after a long hike, the Centre was just shutting down for the day, so I didn't get to see the work being done, just to buy the wine Cilaos is also known for (not worth the walk, we poured half the bottle away) and lentils, which are better than the wine. Sue in the Rhone valley (France) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Cilaos needle lace
I see this 'Cilaos' pieces as an embroidery form, not so much a true lace. You are right that it is a form of Teneriffe/Sol lace in that woven & knotted elements are worked on a foundation of weft threads. I have seen this type of sol-like embroidery in many older drawn thread work linens. It is used to embellish a corner. It appears to me that it is embedded in a fabric base, not a stand-alone piece of lace. Karen Bovard SayreThe ShuttleSmithhttp://www.TheShuttleSmith.com | | | | www.theshuttlesmith.com | | | Omaha, NE/Council Bluffs, Iowa On âSundayâ, âAugustâ â26â, â2018â â10â:â23â:â04â âPMâ âCDT, wrote: I agree with Sue B., it's got to be a form of Teneriffe (Nanduti, Sol, etc., is there a single name to encompass the whole lot?). Lots of local names for the same basic technique. Lay threads radially across a circular "frame" (could be nothing more than a ring of pins, or could be an object designed and devoted to this function), weave and interlace threads, usually in a circular pattern, though and around the radials, then do an edging to hold it all together. I don't remember ever seeing so many fine threads bundled together, though. The thick, needle-woven rays on the outside of this piece are like the needlewoven boxes in hedebo and hardanger, but are also often found in the Teneriffe family. Not usually so big and fat, though. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com Parvum leve mentes capiunt (Little things amuse little minds) hottl...@neo.rr.com wrote: = A friend sent me a photo so I posted it to Arachne Flickr. Perhaps someone knows more about this? Cilaos is near Madagascar so maybe Sue Babbs is familiar with the technique? Just when we thought we couldn't find any more lacy stuff to investigate this summer!! Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Cilaos needle lace
I agree with Sue B., it's got to be a form of Teneriffe (Nanduti, Sol, etc., is there a single name to encompass the whole lot?). Lots of local names for the same basic technique. Lay threads radially across a circular "frame" (could be nothing more than a ring of pins, or could be an object designed and devoted to this function), weave and interlace threads, usually in a circular pattern, though and around the radials, then do an edging to hold it all together. I don't remember ever seeing so many fine threads bundled together, though. The thick, needle-woven rays on the outside of this piece are like the needlewoven boxes in hedebo and hardanger, but are also often found in the Teneriffe family. Not usually so big and fat, though. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com Parvum leve mentes capiunt (Little things amuse little minds) hottl...@neo.rr.com wrote: = A friend sent me a photo so I posted it to Arachne Flickr. Perhaps someone knows more about this? Cilaos is near Madagascar so maybe Sue Babbs is familiar with the technique? Just when we thought we couldn't find any more lacy stuff to investigate this summer!! Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Cilaos needle lace
A friend sent me a photo so I posted it to Arachne Flickr. Perhaps someone knows more about this? Cilaos is near Madagascar so maybe Sue Babbs is familiar with the technique? Just when we thought we couldn't find any more lacy stuff to investigate this summer!! Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
