Fw: [lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
Thank you for this brilliant thread of lace and pictures. This type of lace looks as if it is similar to Bucks Point. Can you tell me if it is finer thread, or just has new stitches not normally used in Bucks Point. I think it looks stunning. I could never get the hang of the free Bucks patterns but maybe with more time and experience I might manage better in the future. Thank you David for starting the conversation and the rest for the extension of it all. Sue T, Dorset UK Hi again everyone, More info added to the page--be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom. This has been a lot of fun and very educational. Keep 'em coming! http://homepage.mac.com/bejoyce/OldLace/ Barbara Joyce Snoqualmie, WA USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
Bucks and Tønder both belong to the category of point ground laces. There are many similarities. Tønder is worked with a finer thread, anything from Egyptian Cotton 120/2 to 170/2 depending on the pricking. The gimp is relatively heavy, such as linen 35/2 or 35/3. Gunvor encouraged use of linen thread as gimp because it lends body to the lace. There are several differences between Bucks and Tønder: in Bucks a picot is made in the valley at the headside, but in Tønder, at the valley pin the workers are brought through the headside passives, twisted twice around the pin, and then taken back through the headside passives and into the lace. Also, in Bucks at the footside a cloth stitch is made (C, T, C) after you pin under four, but in Tønder it's a half stitch (C, T). In Bucks, the footside is on the right and the headside is on the left, but the reverse is true of Tønder. Tønder also uses Copenhagen holes, which is too difficult to try to describe here, but is a way of making a big hole in the lace. But to see one, look back at the web page, in the picture of the cover of Knipling 3, the top corner has a Copenhagen hole at the very top. There are some books available that can help you get into this kind of lace (which is my favorite--can you tell?). Knipling 3 is wonderful, and expensive (around $50), was out of print for a while, but is now available again. It is in Danish only, but a very good translation is available for around $15. There is a good out-of-print book called The Technique of Tønder Lace by Skovgaard, available on eBay from time to time, but it usually runs around $60-$70 to get a copy. Gunvor wasn't wild about this book; she said Skovgaard oversimplifies Tønder lace to make it easier for the masses to learn, but she takes liberties with technique. That may be true for a purist, but for most purposes, I think it would be fine, and it's in English. Hope this helps give you an idea of the lace, Barbara Joyce Snoqualmie, WA USA Where we have snow today! Lots of it! :-( Thank you for this brilliant thread of lace and pictures. This type of lace looks as if it is similar to Bucks Point. Can you tell me if it is finer thread, or just has new stitches not normally used in Bucks Point. I think it looks stunning. I could never get the hang of the free Bucks patterns but maybe with more time and experience I might manage better in the future. Thank you David for starting the conversation and the rest for the extension of it all. Sue T, Dorset UK Hi again everyone, More info added to the page--be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom. This has been a lot of fun and very educational. Keep 'em coming! http://homepage.mac.com/bejoyce/OldLace/ Barbara Joyce Snoqualmie, WA USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
I thought of another difference between Bucks and Tønder. In Bucks as you work from the lace into the headside, after you cross the gimp, you twist the workers (twice?) before working through the headside passives. Likewise, after you've made the picot, you work back through the passives and twist the workers before crossing the gimp and going back into the lace. In Tønder, you may twist before crossing the gimp (depending on your lace), but no twists after. That is, you cross the gimp and work directly through the headside passives, with no twist on the workers between the gimp and the headside passives. Likewise, after making the picot, you work back through the headside passives, and without twisting the workers, cross the gimp, and continue with the lace. The effect of all this is that in Bucks we see a separation between the gimp and the headside passives, but in Tønder, the gimp and the headside passives appear to be a single unit. Hope this helps, Barbara (whose last name is Joyce) Snoqualmie, WA USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
Hi again everyone, More info added to the page--be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom. This has been a lot of fun and very educational. Keep 'em coming! http://homepage.mac.com/bejoyce/OldLace/ Barbara Joyce Snoqualmie, WA USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
From: Barbara Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] David emailed a scan of the portion of his pricking that he is asking about. As shown in Barbara's website, it does look like pinchain. However, from David's description, I wonder if the picture isn't rotated 90 degrees. It sounded to me like the lines of pinholes were horizontal, not vertical. Personally, I'd ignore the dots and fill the center with halfstitch. I don't think lines of pinchain are an appropriate filling for the disk of a sunflower--the tiny flowers of the disk are arranged in spirals. I think half-stitch would look good in there, even if it's not traditional Tonder that way. Thanks for posting it so we could see it. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA (formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Question re Old Toender Pricking
On Jan 7, 2007, at 14:11, Barbara Joyce wrote: David emailed a scan of the portion of his pricking that he is asking about. Here's the URL: http://homepage.mac.com/bejoyce/tonderdetail.jpg I have finally managed to dig through enough tasks to take a peek at the pricking and recognized the arrangement of the dots immediately, because the book had been sitting at my kitchen table for a week now -- I'm thinking of using that filling in a pattern of my own, and have been slowly digesting it with my breakfast bagels :) The book is Parijse Kant, by Jan Geelen. So this filling may not be *the* filling meant for that particular pricking, since Tönder is a Point Ground lace. But it's, definitely, an option and would, probably, look quite nice with h.st petals (in the book, it's used as a centre of a flower also, but the petals are in cl.st). These little do-dads *might* be the little snowflakes that Alice was talking about; can't be sure, since I don't have the book she found them in. Nor can I read the text in my book -- it's all Dutch to me :) Anyway, I'll take Barbara at her word: I'll be interested to hear what other ideas we can come up with for the treatment of the center of the flower. and presume on her generosity. I'll send her a scan (hurrah for Christmas gifts to self g) of the relevant bits and hope she can post them on the same page, next to the pricking, as one possible solution to David's problem, for everyone to see. I'll CC the scan to David directly, too. -- Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/ Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
