[lace-chat] Latin translations

[Jean Nathan]

Seeing the attempts at translating old Italian from Le Pompe reminded me of 
the motto for Poole (the town where I live):


"Ad morem villae de Poole"

Remembering what I could of Latin learn at school, my literal translation 
was "To death villagers of Poole" rearranged to "Death to the villagers of 
Poole", which, given what the local council is doing to the town, I think is 
far more appropriate than the real translation "According to the custom of 
the town of Poole".


Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK 


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Re: [lace-chat] Latin translations

[madame RD]

from what i remember of the italian i learnt at school, men should stand 
for meno which means less ...and più means more .. non più=no more/no 
longuer ...
so the quotation could mean: a work which is no less beautiful than 
useful and necessary and not sold any longer ... at light ? that part is 
still puzzling to me but i lost my italian dictionnary somewhere in the 
house ... lol ...

dom

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Re: [lace-chat] Italian quote in Le Pompe book

[Jeanette Fischer]

- Original Message - 
From: "Bev Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Hi Jeanette and everyone

I made an attempt to translate on-line via babelfish, got better results
when I realized it is Italian rather than Latin (you get a point for being
close!).


Latin or Italian - both are equally Greek to me!   Thank you for the reply. 
I love quotations related to lace and thought it might be interesting.  My 
favourite still is " Oh, what tangled webs we weave when first we try to 
deceived."  I think he was watching a lacemaker trying to cheat her way out 
of trouble!!


Jeanette Fischer, Western Cape, South Africa. 


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Re: [lace-chat] Latin translations

[Steph Peters]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:25:02 +0100, Jean wrote:
>Seeing the attempts at translating old Italian from Le Pompe reminded me of 
>the motto for Poole (the town where I live):
>
>"Ad morem villae de Poole"
>
>Remembering what I could of Latin learn at school, my literal translation 
>was "To death villagers of Poole" rearranged to "Death to the villagers of 
>Poole", which, given what the local council is doing to the town, I think is 
>far more appropriate than the real translation "According to the custom of 
>the town of Poole".

I remember a different bit of school Latin. 'Mores' is Latin for customs
(with maybe morals as an alternative meaning?) so 'morem' is an inflected
version of customs, accusative I think.  Now the bit I've forgotten is what
you are remembering that translates as death.
--
Money can't buy everything. That's what credit cards are for.
Steph Peters  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tatting, lace & stitching page 

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[lace-chat] Grampian Gathering

[Barron]

sorry to cross post but I'd like to advertise the Grampian Gathering to as
wide an audience as possible. It's the lace day of the North East of Scotland
(UK) and this year is being held on Sat 5th May from 10am to 3.30pm in Kemnay
Village Hall. Tickets are £3.00, tea & coffee provided, bring a packed lunch,
there will be suppliers, a sales table and a raffle. There is parking
available behind the village hall and in the public car park opposite the
hall. Kemnay is some 16 miles from Aberdeen and 4 miles from Inverurie. 
jenny
barron
NE Scotland

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RE: [lace-chat] Re: Archaic Saying

[Angel Skubic]

Remove the ruddy and put in bloody. 'Bloody son of a bitch'. I used to
use the word 'bloody' a lot as a child. My great grandfather used it a
lot and I picked it up from him. I was told it was NOT a nice word and
was not allowed to say it in the context I was using it. (Bloody dog,
bloody cat, bloody whatever) It is a British swear word. (my
greatgrandfather was half Irish and half English) the other word I was
not allowed to use was 'bugger'. (I also got that one from my great
grandfather) Never hear that from anyone until I started watching
British shows. I am amazed how much both the terms 'bloody' and 'bugger'
were used in the Harry Potter movies (by Harry's best friend Ron
especially.) I am now fairly certain I know what they mean. Most
Americans watching the show don't have a clue that Ron swears up a storm
for a young boy.

Cearbhael

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of H. Muth
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 1:21 PM
To: Chat Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace-chat] Re: Archaic Saying


Hello all,

I agree with Tamara about the first part of the saying and think that
the 
second must be "ruddy son of a bitch!"  I've never known how 'ruddy' is
an 
insult.  I don't use any of these myself (in general, don't swear at
all) 
but have heard them all at one time or another.

Heather
Abbotsford, BC
A beautiful spring day.

At 01:56 AM 06/04/2007 -0400, Tamara P Duvall wrote:
>On Apr 6, 2007, at 0:57, David in Ballarat wrote:
>>An elderly man told of how his grandfather, a staunch Presbyterian who
>>never swore in his life, had a saying which he used when the occasion 
>>demanded. You have to use the appropriate intonation to get the full 
>>effect, but he would curse in his loudest voice: " Cheese & rice, a
muddy 
>>bucket of pitch"
>
>Never heard this particular "curse" but, based on what I know -- in
>general -- about curses, euphemisms, etc, I'd stake my linguistic 
>reputation  on the first part (cheese & rice) being a substitute for

>"Jesus Christ".

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[lace-chat] sewing with Martha

[RicTorr8]

Greetings, All! 
 
A friend forwarded this to me. Good news, I think ... today sewing,  tomorrow 
lacemaking? :>)
 
Regards from spring-rainy Utah
Ricki 
 
~~~

Designs in Machine  Embroidery
April 3,  2007
~~
~~

Welcome  Martha!

On Tuesday April 3, SVP Worldwide hosted a media event on the  42nd floor of 
a swanky
hotel on 57th St in Manhattan. Earlier that day,  Martha Stewart welcomed SVP 
onto
her show, Martha Stewart Show, and announced  a new partnership. Such 
excitement has
not been seen in our industry since  Janome introduced the Memory Craft 8000. 
Talk
about a buzz - cameras flashed,  television cameras rolled and Martha was in 
the building!
National magazines  - mass market magazines - like Elle, Glamour, Vogue, and 
InStyle
-were in  attendance. Finally, the world would see what we've known all along 
-  sewing
is way cool!

As the new spokesperson for SVP Worldwide, parent  of Singer, Husqvarna 
Viking and
Pfaff, Martha will reach thousands if not  millions of new and veteran sewers 
as she
incorporates sewing, quilting and  embroidery into Martha Stewart Living 
Omnimedia.
Look for sewing segments in  Martha Stewart Living Magazine, on Martha 
Stewart Today
television show,  Sirrus radio and the newly redesigned www.marthastewart.com.

Just as  Martha demystified complex cooking recipes, fantasy gardens and the  
everyday
tasks of laundering and housekeeping, she brings her team of  experts, 
creative geniuses
and professional artists to sewing. What a breath  of fresh air. And, she 
walks the
walk. Martha began her love affair with  sewing at the age of 7 at her 
mother's knee.
A sewing machine (a Singer, no  less!) was nestled into a corner of the 
kitchen in
her childhood home. By the  time high school rolled around, Martha was making 
all
of her clothes. This  continued through college when she was named one of the 
Top
20 College Girls  by Glamour magazine - and the only recipient who made all 
her  own
clothes!

As she became a wife, mother, businesswoman and leader  making her own 
clothes was
no longer a reality. But her love of sewing and  appreciation for fine 
workmanship,
fabrics and design still simmered. Today,  armed with a huge creative staff, 
Martha
will help bring her ideas to reality  and into our homes. We, as an industry, 
are
so lucky.

Many of you may  wonder why this is such a milestone in the sewing industry. 
The tradition
of  passing down the hobby to our daughters has skipped a generation and the  
reasons
for sewing today are very different than the reasons our mothers and  
grandmothers
sewed. The sewing industry thrives on the creative pursuits of  its 
customers. We
must inspire each other, ignite those who are just starting  on this creative 
expression
and unveil the possibilities to those who don't  sew. Without education in 
all of
its 21st century forms, there are no sewers.  Without sewers, there is no 
sewing industry.

Thankfully, sewing is  enjoying a comeback - no doubt ignited by the popular 
Project
Runway  television series - many are looking at sewing as a creative outlet. 
How  does
one spread the word? It helps to get a sewing experience into the hands  of 
those
who don't sew. At SVP's swank media event, it was fun to see the  astonished 
faces
of prominent editors as they watched the Singer Futura,  Pfaff 2170 and 
Husqvarna
Viking SE embroider linen napkins and quilt squares.  They couldn't believe 
the professional
quality of the stitch-outs, the ease  of use and comforting hum of the 
machine plus
the limitless creative  possibilities! Press was welcomed, encouraged even, 
to sit
at a machine and  sew.

Three corners of the glass-walled room were mini-sewing studios.  Each brand 
had a
homey corner with three machines at the ready. Many  attendees took a 
test-drive and
those who did were glad they got a hands-on  experience. Most had no idea how 
wonderful
today's machines are - from  drop-in bobbins to automatic tension to well-lit 
sewing
surfaces, sewing is  nothing like it was 20 years ago.

The last corner sported a clear acrylic  podium, backed by damask swatches 
and logos
of Singer, Husqvarna Viking,  Pfaff and Martha Stewart Living. Finally, 
Martha pulled
herself away from the  sewing machine and took her spot behind the mike. She 
shared
her love of  sewing as she reminisced about her childhood, high school, 
college and
young  adult sewing days. She remember fondly how she copied couture 
clothing,  made
draperies for one of her early homes and items for her daughter, Alexis.  Her 
comfort
behind a machine is as obvious as her comfort with SVP Worldwide.  She closed 
her
remarks with a statement heard hundreds of times at sewing  shows, "I didn't 
make
this gorgeous wool coat, but I could  have."


I believe she  could.

~~
~~

Sincerely

Re: [lace-chat] Italian quote in Le Pompe book

[Bev Walker]

> > The text is
> > "Opera non men bella, che utile, & necessaria, et non piu *veduta* in
> > luce."

Typo in the e-mail, and once in babelfish. Now I have it as something to
do with 'seeing'
>
> It's not "venduta"; it's "veduta" -- in both books

(yes)

>
> I think it's, probably, something like "works not merely beautiful, but
> useful and necessary", or "works as useful and necessary as they're
> beautiful", though I wouldn't stake my reputation on it :) Yeah, I know
> "che" is usually translated as "than", but it can as easily be used as
> "as/like" -- in a comparison .
>

And using the tips from dominique, Work no less beautiful than useful and
necessary, and no more seen in light (um, not outshone by daylight ~ ?)

'Work' can be plural or singular. and here it refers to handwork.

Quite the poser, Jeanette :)
That creaking we can hear are the rusty wheels turning in my head

Happy Easter everyone
Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)

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[lace-chat] Co-incidence

[David in Ballarat]

A chicken farmer went to a local bar, sat next to a woman, and ordered
a glass of champagne. The woman perks up and says, "How about that? I
just ordered a glass of champagne, too!" "What a coincidence," he 
said, "This is a special day for me, I'm celebrating." "This is a 
special day for me, too, and I'm also celebrating," says the woman. 
"What a coincidence," says the man. As they clinked glasses he asked, 
"What are you celebrating?" "My husband and I have been trying to 
have a child, and today my gynecologist told me I'm pregnant!" "What 
a coincidence," says the man. "I'm a chicken farmer. For months all 
my hens were infertile, but today they're finally laying fertilized 
eggs." "That's great!" says the woman, "How did you manage that?" "I 
switched cocks," he replied. She smiled and said, "What a coincidence!"


David in Ballarat

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Re: [lace-chat] Latin translations

[David in Ballarat]

Dear Jean,
I think you'll find that "towards death" in Latin is "ad mortem"
What a difference once little letter can make :)
Can't recall what "morem" is though.
David in Ballarat

Seeing the attempts at translating old Italian from Le Pompe 
reminded me of the motto for Poole (the town where I live):

"Ad morem villae de Poole"

Remembering what I could of Latin learn at school, my literal 
translation was "To death villagers of Poole" rearranged to "Death 
to the villagers of Poole", which, given what the local council is 
doing to the town, I think is far more appropriate than the real 
translation "According to the custom of the town of Poole".


Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK
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7/04/2007 10:57 PM


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[lace-chat] Latin for death

[Jean Nathan]

David is right "ad mortem" was what I was recalling when I read the Poole 
motto as 'death'. Still think my version's better than the official one.


Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK 


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Fwd: [lace-chat] Italian quote in Le Pompe book

[Tamara P Duvall]

I think Martha meant this for the entire list:

Begin forwarded message:


From: Martha Krieg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: April 8, 2007 1:37:46 EDT
To: Tamara P Duvall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [lace-chat] Italian quote in Le Pompe book


On Apr 7, 2007, at 20:41, Bev Walker wrote:


Hi Jeanette and everyone

I made an attempt to translate on-line via babelfish, got better 
results
when I realized it is Italian rather than Latin (you get a point for 
being

close!).
The text is
"Opera non men bella, che utile, & necessaria, et non piu venduta in
luce."
So, something like:
"Beautiful work not men (than) useful and necessary, and (piu) (did 
not
translate, best guess - word related to pious, godly?) not sold in 
light."


Does this help?
Can you rework the translation for a better meaning.




Assuming T. is right about it's being veduta not venduta?

Something close to  "Work no less beautiful than useful and necessary, 
and no more /longer seen in light."


If it were Latin, opera would be plural of opus, but not in Italian.
--
--
Martha Krieg   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  in Michigan




--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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> RE: [lace-chat] Re: Archaic Saying

[Webwalker]

What a treat to get 2 digests in one day.

But my take on the Archaic Saying is that the "M" sound of muddy is 
intended (working toward "mother") -- just a little surprised that we 
are talking about "pitch" instead of "fish" as that would seem to supply 
the invective not suitable for the ears of Gentle Spiders or mouths of 
staunch Presbyterians.


Another way was to 
reverse (or almost) syllables; "matko boska!" (oh, Mother of God!), 
became "batko moska". 



Susan Webster
in Ohio where its a lot colder than we expect for spring.

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[lace-chat] Italian/Pompe

[Thurlow Weed]

 Spiders,

I forwarded this business to my mother, whose Italian is "meno moso"
(more or less still there -- she and my late father used to speak a lot
of Italian; it was the only other language they shared that I couldn't
understand.  Very useful for "adult speak" not for children).

She informs me this is 16th century Italian, and that a few hundred years
have somewhat changed the language a bit.  She had to cheat with her
dictionary a little it to refresh her memory here and there, and attempt
to account for changes in the language, but here is her synopsis; I hope
this helps.  It's actually starting to make some sense now (I think!):

Opera = work;
non = not,no;
men = (it could mean an abbreviation for meno = less);
bella = nice, beautiful;
chi = who, he who;
utile = (a) useful, practical, or (n.m.) profit, gain;
& neccesaria = and necessary;
et non piu veduta in luce = no longer seen in the light
luce = light, brightness, aperture, splendour.

the "chi utile" has me puzzled, since utile is an adjective or noun, not
a verb.

Thurlow in Lancaster OH
Heavy snow yesterday, flurries today.  Why am I collecting Easter eggs in
the snow?

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Re: [lace-chat] Italian/Pompe

[Martha Krieg]

Whether it happened to be spelled che or chi, in this case it means 
"than" - medieval spelling isn't always exact.


At 6:03 PM -0400 4/8/07, Thurlow Weed wrote:

 Spiders,

I forwarded this business to my mother, whose Italian is "meno moso"
(more or less still there -- she and my late father used to speak a lot
of Italian; it was the only other language they shared that I couldn't
understand.  Very useful for "adult speak" not for children).

She informs me this is 16th century Italian, and that a few hundred years
have somewhat changed the language a bit.  She had to cheat with her
dictionary a little it to refresh her memory here and there, and attempt
to account for changes in the language, but here is her synopsis; I hope
this helps.  It's actually starting to make some sense now (I think!):

Opera = work;
non = not,no;
men = (it could mean an abbreviation for meno = less);
bella = nice, beautiful;
chi = who, he who;
utile = (a) useful, practical, or (n.m.) profit, gain;
& neccesaria = and necessary;
et non piu veduta in luce = no longer seen in the light
luce = light, brightness, aperture, splendour.

the "chi utile" has me puzzled, since utile is an adjective or noun, not
a verb.

Thurlow in Lancaster OH
Heavy snow yesterday, flurries today.  Why am I collecting Easter eggs in
the snow?

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--
--
Martha Krieg   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  in Michigan

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[lace-chat] re: sewing with Martha

[lacespider]

I am glad to hear sewing is coming back.  I have sewn since I learned in Home 
Economics in Jr. High many years ago. I haven't sewn in some years now, but I 
do know how. Walmart I believe is getting rid of all their sewing departments. 
What a shame when things may be on the upswing. Here in the United States, 
Central California, the fabric stores are becoming few and far between and seem 
to be giving over to more crafts than sewing supplies. Is this the case 
elsewhere? 

If there were a better selection of fabrics and a notions available locally, I 
might do some sewing again. NOT because it is cheaper, because fabric prices 
are not always reasonable. I do like to make things that are in the colors I 
like no matter what is "in" right now and I like to alter things to fit and 
perhaps enhance a design. There is creative license to be taken. Hm... 
going to have to dig for that stash... does machine need a check up before use? 
probably :(  I might have to fiddle anyway.

Well, off to find the old fabric stash and see what is in there.

Happy belated Easter!
Michele Hitch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Central Coast California, USA

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