Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
Weronika, The culture confuses ME, and I was born and raised here by very non-international parents! I'm not sure whether I should be happy that my problem isn't abnormal, or unhappy because that means it'll probably never go away... g Except for The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, Master and Commander (because we liked the books) and Minority Report, I don't think we've seen any movies in the last five years. I find myself watching lots of movies now, because for some reason my friends want to see them. Like Spiderman and such. In Poland I used to only go see movies I knew were going to be really good, but here people seem to do it much more often, college students at least. Well, I can tell you you're not missing anything g Weronika To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
Weronika, the problem of getting lost in conversation doesn't only occur when moving to a country with a different language! I'm sure it doesn't. I'm fine with most of the language, it's just the culture that confuses me. Especially when people my age start talking about music and movies and such... Weronika Weronika, The culture confuses ME, and I was born and raised here by very non-international parents! Except for The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, Master and Commander (because we liked the books) and Minority Report, I don't think we've seen any movies in the last five years. As for modern music well, I know more medieval pieces by heart than pop songs! The number of references in meetings at work that sail right over my head, to my all-too-obvious complete non-comprehension is probably legendary by now! -- -- Martha Krieg [EMAIL PROTECTED] in Michigan To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
Hi everyone! I'm back from visiting my boyfriend for the long weekend, and I think I'll sit down and answer all of my accumulated Arachne email now. It's a great thing to do while waiting for my Matlab program to finish running and tell me what silly programming error I've made this time... True, there doesn't seem to be, although I always thought that was just because I've never dealt with sex in Polish. Possibly a vicious circle: there's no ordinary language to talk about it, because nobody talks about it? I was assuming Polish people having sex with other Polish people (which I never ended up doing) do talk about it, although I might be wrong g. (of course the idea of using condoms wasn't even mentioned, since the Caltholic Church doesn't allow them, for no reason that I ever managed to understand). The first and foremost reason for having sex is procreation, not pleasure; pleasure is icing on the cake, and not strictly necessary. By using a condom, you turn that principle upside down. But then why is contraception by charting your cycle and only having sex during non-fertile days acceptable? Then, too, the Catholic Church is ruled by men, and it's men who object the most to using condoms, so, who knows what the real reason is :) I think the assumption is that the men who rule the Catholic Church don't have sex, with or without condoms... g I don't know anything about Ann Landers either. Too late now; she'd dead and burried. But she used to have a syndicated advice column, which used to be published in half the newspapers in the US. The other half of the newspapers published the advice column wrtitten by her twin sister (Amy van Buren? The Washington Post had Ann Landers, so her name is more familiar to me). I used to love Ann Landers when I first came here; her replies to all sorts of questions (some totally bizarre) was so no-nonsense and straightforward... Reading the column gave me many a chuckle (as well as some insight into what American society at large was like). Sounds interesting... I need insight into American society. Especially since Caltech has very little in common with the rest of it, it seems. In the US I get in lots of conversations I'm completely lost in... Tamara, does this ever go away? No, not really. Ouch. Plus, my asking a question about things which are natural to every born-and-bread American but obscure and esoteric to me, is likely to make someone's day, providing the explanation, so, why not? Yep, that works well. Weronika (In Caltech, Pasadena, USA, once again unbearably hot from my Polish point of view) To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
Weronika, the problem of getting lost in conversation doesn't only occur when moving to a country with a different language! I'm sure it doesn't. I'm fine with most of the language, it's just the culture that confuses me. Especially when people my age start talking about music and movies and such... Weronika To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
!
This is really horrible! I always thought this sort of thing was over
earlier than the 60's... Tamara, was it like this in Poland too?
Nope, and I doubt it had been like this in Poland even in 1860's... :)
I thought so. Good...
And the post WWII communist rule only strengthened the trend:
women had to work, same as men did (the salaries were calulated on the
basis of *two* people supporting one family), so were less likely to
go, willingly, through the pretense of you are more important than I
am.
Yep. Even though I think communism is completely wrong as a political
system, after coming to the US I realized that it did do a couple of
good things for Poland.
I'd estimate that 98% of all the sex
education I received (school, friends, books, parents) was couched
either in strictly biology textbook terms, or those from the gutter;
the first were too boring, the second too embarassing. But there was
nothing in between, no every day language to bridge the gap, until I
learnt enough English...
True, there doesn't seem to be, although I always thought that was just
because I've never dealt with sex in Polish.
As for sexual education, there was an additional element in my
childhood: in I think 6th or 7th grade we had one hour of class with a
Catholic sexual educator. It started and ended with a prayer, and
mostly consisted of giving reasons for never having sex outside of
marriage - including great ideas like if you have sex with different
men, you will become allergic to sperm and won't be able to have sex
(of course the idea of using condoms wasn't even mentioned, since the
Caltholic Church doesn't allow them, for no reason that I ever managed
to understand).
I also have some doubts about the text having been written by a woman;
sounds to me more like something concocted by a man in a wet dream.
I don't know. If no women believed in this sort of thing enough to
write it, they wouldn't do it either, and it seems that at least a
decent percentage of them did, or else the social order wouldn't work
the way it did... I doubt you could force half the human population to
act inferior if they didn't believe it was right.
As early as The Forsyth Saga, when Soames insisted on his
marital rights, the book manipulated one's sympathies towards his wife,
who resisted...
I don't know what the Forsyth Saga is... When was it out?
I'd love to be able to lay my hands on a big book of early Ann Landers
responses; by the time I got here ('73) she was very level-headed and,
while she preached compromise, she preached it to *both* sexes
(something I entirely agree with)
I don't know anything about Ann Landers either. In the US I get in lots
of conversations I'm completely lost in... Tamara, does this ever go
away?
Weronika
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[lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
On May 27, 2004, at 14:56, Weronika Patena wrote: True, there doesn't seem to be, although I always thought that was just because I've never dealt with sex in Polish. Possibly a vicious circle: there's no ordinary language to talk about it, because nobody talks about it? (of course the idea of using condoms wasn't even mentioned, since the Caltholic Church doesn't allow them, for no reason that I ever managed to understand). The first and foremost reason for having sex is procreation, not pleasure; pleasure is icing on the cake, and not strictly necessary. By using a condom, you turn that principle upside down. Then, too, the Catholic Church is ruled by men, and it's men who object the most to using condoms, so, who knows what the real reason is :) I don't know what the Forsyth Saga is... When was it out? Sorry, my mistake. It's Forsyte Saga (by Galsworthy). I just checked as to when, and the first volume was published in 1906, but the last not till 1922. I don't know anything about Ann Landers either. Too late now; she'd dead and burried. But she used to have a syndicated advice column, which used to be published in half the newspapers in the US. The other half of the newspapers published the advice column wrtitten by her twin sister (Amy van Buren? The Washington Post had Ann Landers, so her name is more familiar to me). I used to love Ann Landers when I first came here; her replies to all sorts of questions (some totally bizarre) was so no-nonsense and straightforward... Reading the column gave me many a chuckle (as well as some insight into what American society at large was like). And then I got seduced by lace, spare time got short, so reading the Style section had to go... I don't know who (if anyone) is writing advice columns these days, nor what kind of questions exercise Americans now... Are the bathroom issues (how to hang the toilet paper, and the matter of the toilet seat) still all-consuming issues? If they are, is there someone like the indomitable, ole Ann Landers telling people why don't you get a life? In the US I get in lots of conversations I'm completely lost in... Tamara, does this ever go away? No, not really. After 31 yrs here, I still fail every trivia test there is, even the ones designed for my generation. But it doesn't bother me; I can't be expected to know things I didn't grow up with (my growing alongside US started when I was 23), these *are* trivia afterall (so I don't hafta burden my two remaining brain cells with them) and, it's always interesting to learn something new (even if I'm unlikely to remember it the next day). Plus, my asking a question about things which are natural to every born-and-bread American but obscure and esoteric to me, is likely to make someone's day, providing the explanation, so, why not? I just make sure that I apply the heaviest accent I can, to remind my instructor that the question is legitimate, and not prompted by innate stupidity g --- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet: no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
Weronika, the problem of getting lost in conversation doesn't only occur when moving to a country with a different language! I come from England, have lived in Australia most of my life - and after all, both countries are supposed to speak the same language! However, after all these years, I still find that the occasional Australian phrase comes up which I don't understand, I still use expressions which turn out to be particularly English. Then when I go back home to England, although I automatically drop the Australian accent and start speaking with an English one again, I confuse people by using terms and expressions they don't understand there either - so in both countries I spent a bit of time translating or explaining what I mean!!! Regards, Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) Weronika Patena wrote: In the US I get in lots of conversations I'm completely lost in... Tamara, does this ever go away? Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:48:58 -0400, Tamara wrote: I also have some doubts about the text having been written by a woman; sounds to me more like something concocted by a man in a wet dream. I don't know who wrote this particular text, but its style certainly does not rule out a female author. Because it's a book it is a little more in depth than would be published in a magazine, but in style it is typical of the type of advice that women's magazines used to give at the time. The authors of articles for such magazines were almost all women; writing articles for women to read was rather too frivolous an occupation for a man. So I'd say it was highly likely to have been written by a woman. Besides, what man of the time would know about face and hair care products ;-) -- I have opinions of my own - strong opinions - but I don't always agree with them. George W. Bush Steph Peters, Manchester, England [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scanned by WinProxy http://www.Ositis.com/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: This is for Real - humour
On May 25, 2004, at 14:12, Weronika Patena wrote:
!
This is really horrible! I always thought this sort of thing was over
earlier than the 60's... Tamara, was it like this in Poland too?
Nope, and I doubt it had been like this in Poland even in 1860's... :)
Polish women had always had to be especially strong, what with their
men always being dragged off to an occupant's army for 25 yrs at a
stretch, or on the lam from the secret police for dissidentism, or in
jail/exile, or just plain drunk under the table... I don't think this
meek mouse mode would have played well in Poland at any time after
1795. And the post WWII communist rule only strengthened the trend:
women had to work, same as men did (the salaries were calulated on the
basis of *two* people supporting one family), so were less likely to
go, willingly, through the pretense of you are more important than I
am. On top of which, they were *told* (never mind that the facts
didn't always match the official spin g) that they were equal to
men (everyone's equality was guaranteed, constitutionally), so why
should they accept his needs count for more than yours?
Secondly, matters of sex were never discussed quite as openly as in the
snippet David'd sent. Partly because *both* the black (Catholic) and
the red (Communist) regimes were rather prudish when it came to the
daily nitty-gritty. And partly, I think, because the Polish language
doesn't seem to lend itself to such discussions, or not easily
(possibly because the Catholic Church had had hundreds of years of
declaring the subject taboo). I'd estimate that 98% of all the sex
education I received (school, friends, books, parents) was couched
either in strictly biology textbook terms, or those from the gutter;
the first were too boring, the second too embarassing. But there was
nothing in between, no every day language to bridge the gap, until I
learnt enough English...
I also have some doubts about the text having been written by a woman;
sounds to me more like something concocted by a man in a wet dream.
Women had written under male pseudonyms for different reasons (George
Elliot) more often than the other way around, but the other way around
isn't all that rare, either, especially in the 20th century.
Nor does it mean that, when such advice was *offered*, it was
necessarily followed, or, even, generally accepted... If it had been,
there wouldn't be so many jokes about men who didn't get theirs.
There wouldn't have been so many men bragging that they *did* get
theirs. As early as The Forsyth Saga, when Soames insisted on his
marital rights, the book manipulated one's sympathies towards his wife,
who resisted...
I'd love to be able to lay my hands on a big book of early Ann Landers
responses; by the time I got here ('73) she was very level-headed and,
while she preached compromise, she preached it to *both* sexes
(something I entirely agree with)
---
Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)
Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet:
no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush.
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