Not quite off-topic: List misuse
Dear list, I recently received a full-blown advertisement (SPAM) from a company that uses THIS LIST to gather email addresses. The sender is a member of the list: John Toto at Superlogics. I don't at all mind members peddling their products in direct response to questions posted to the list (as John has done before). That can actually be quite helpful. However, when it degenerates into full-blown full-page unsolicited advertisements with all the bells and whistles sent directly to members of the list - well that's when I make a NEVER BUY FROM entry in the list I keep for that purpose. Sorry John: Gotta try to nip this in the bud before it degenerates further. - Tore
Not quite off-topic: List misuse
Title: Not quite off-topic: List misuse I was not on the spam list but I agree with Tore Paul A. Rochefort AECL Chalk River Laboratories -Original Message- From: Tore Johnsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: May 28, 2004 13:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Not quite off-topic: List misuse Dear list, I recently received a full-blown advertisement (SPAM) from a company that uses THIS LIST to gather email addresses. The sender is a member of the list: John Toto at Superlogics. I don't at all mind members peddling their products in direct response to questions posted to the list (as John has done before). That can actually be quite helpful. However, when it degenerates into full-blown full-page unsolicited advertisements with all the bells and whistles sent directly to members of the list - well that's when I make a NEVER BUY FROM entry in the list I keep for that purpose. Sorry John: Gotta try to nip this in the bud before it degenerates further. - Tore
RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
List,
I disagree - targeted emails that are specific to LV or NI users can be
useful in bringing ones attention to products that may otherwise remain
undiscovered (don't know if this one was, didn't see it). Especially useful
where advertised products are cheaper and possibly offer better
functionality than similar NI products.
I have been especially appreciative of certain low cost DAQ products that
have come to my attention via the list.
I do however agree that totally unrelated advertisements are a no no.
Regards,
Chris Harden.
Test System Design Engineer.
FR-HiTEMP Ltd,
Brook Road,
Wimborne,
Dorset. UK.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Rochefort, Paul
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:48 PM
> To: 'Tore Johnsen'; Info-Labview (E-mail)
> Subject: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
>
> I was not on the spam list but I agree with Tore
>
> Paul A. Rochefort
> AECL
> Chalk River Laboratories
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tore Johnsen [ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> Sent: May 28, 2004 13:12
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
>
>
> Dear list,
> I recently received a full-blown advertisement (SPAM) from a company that
> uses THIS LIST to gather email addresses. The sender is a member of the
> list: John Toto at Superlogics.
>
> I don't at all mind members peddling their products in direct response to
> questions posted to the list (as John has done before). That can actually
> be quite helpful. However, when it degenerates into full-blown full-page
> unsolicited advertisements with all the bells and whistles sent directly
> to
> members of the list - well that's when I make a NEVER BUY FROM entry in
> the
> list I keep for that purpose. Sorry John: Gotta try to nip this in the bud
>
> before it degenerates further.
>
> - Tore
>
>
>
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RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
As a list administrator for a small specialized mailing list and a participant in Info-LabVIEW I have some opinions on this topic. This list has never been commmercial content free, but commercial mailings are expected to be kept inobtrusive and brief. That seems to work and who am I to argue. It makes sense to give *participants* in this list (who have to make a living) some leeway and let them plug for themselves a bit. What are our sigs but a little bit of advertisement, eh?. However, I think limiting commercial content to contributors is a good idea. I wouldn't like to see folks who add nothing free of charge on a week to week or month to month basis to start hawking their wares here. >From the admin POV, no list admin wants to scrutinize the list for infractions as a regular task. We can self-police without adding to the SN ratio by just sending our complaints directly to the offending party. People trying to get our money will listen closely when complained to directly in the vein of: If you ever do that again, I will never buy your schmiztengrubben. On the other hand it would seem that this John Toto of Superlogics did not post to the list (I never saw or noticed the posting). Maybe he harvested the list membership for addresses. That would be a real no-no. If he used Info-LabVIEW in the subject as camoflage that would be another real no-no. If that is what happened then I think shunning is definitely in order. If I an example of the offending ad, and had the email address of Superlogics I would send an expression of my disappointment. Mike -Original Message- From: Harden Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Rochefort, Paul' Subject: RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse List, I disagree - targeted emails that are specific to LV or NI users can be useful in bringing ones attention to products that may otherwise remain undiscovered (don't know if this one was, didn't see it). Especially useful where advertised products are cheaper and possibly offer better functionality than similar NI products. I have been especially appreciative of certain low cost DAQ products that have come to my attention via the list. I do however agree that totally unrelated advertisements are a no no. Regards, Chris Harden. Test System Design Engineer. FR-HiTEMP Ltd, Brook Road, Wimborne, Dorset. UK. > > -Original Message- > From: Tore Johnsen [ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > Sent: May 28, 2004 13:12 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Not quite off-topic: List misuse > > > Dear list, > I recently received a full-blown advertisement (SPAM) from a company that > uses THIS LIST to gather email addresses. The sender is a member of the > list: John Toto at Superlogics. > > I don't at all mind members peddling their products in direct response > to > questions posted to the list (as John has done before). That can actually > be quite helpful. However, when it degenerates into full-blown full-page > unsolicited advertisements with all the bells and whistles sent directly > to > members of the list - well that's when I make a NEVER BUY FROM entry in > the > list I keep for that purpose. Sorry John: Gotta try to nip this in the bud > > before it degenerates further. > > - Tore
RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
Sorry Tore. Your name was in our database and a special Data Acq. email ad was sent. I believe that is the only one you have ever gotten since we went deep into our data base. I'm very sorry for that. Your name was removed. No, I do not mine this or any other site for emails. I have no need to. I'm sure other members of this list may have gotten an email, but I doubt more than a few. You either have to email, phone, purchase or otherwise request to be on my list - but the database is large and I can't speak for each record. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. If anyone received one and wants to be removed just send me an email with remove in the subject and I will personally do it. Best Regards, John John C. Toto Sales Director SUPERLOGICS, INC. "Simplifying Data Acquisition" 85 River Street, Waltham, MA 02453 Ph:781-893-1600,ext.110; Fax:781-893-0600 www.superlogics.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tore Johnsen Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Not quite off-topic: List misuse Dear list, I recently received a full-blown advertisement (SPAM) from a company that uses THIS LIST to gather email addresses. The sender is a member of the list: John Toto at Superlogics. I don't at all mind members peddling their products in direct response to questions posted to the list (as John has done before). That can actually be quite helpful. However, when it degenerates into full-blown full-page unsolicited advertisements with all the bells and whistles sent directly to members of the list - well that's when I make a NEVER BUY FROM entry in the list I keep for that purpose. Sorry John: Gotta try to nip this in the bud before it degenerates further. - Tore
RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
Quoting John Toto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Sorry Tore. Your name was in our database and a special Data Acq. email > ad > was sent. I believe that is the only one you have ever gotten since we > went > deep into our data base. I'm very sorry for that. Your name was > removed. > No, I do not mine this or any other site for emails. I have no need to. > I'm > sure other members of this list may have gotten an email, but I doubt > more > than a few. You either have to email, phone, purchase or otherwise > request > to be on my list - but the database is large and I can't speak for each > record. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. If anyone received one and > wants to be removed just send me an email with remove in the subject and > I > will personally do it. John, Issues addressed here are covered by S.877, aka. the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. - Harvesting of addresses is not allowed, and I don't think you did. - You are allowed to send unsolicited advertisements as long as the format conforms to the requirements of S.877. In particular, it must be labeled as advertisements and must contain opt-out instructions as well as your physical address. - once you receive an opt-out request, that particular e-mail address will be off-limits. - I don't know where your company gets internet access, but many providers have stricter rules, dealing with the number of complaints allowed etc. You are well advised to maintain rock-solid records of all subscribe and unsubscribe requests, and all relevant records on how the address originally was obtained. Current best practices require confirmed opt-in, see e.g.: http://www.spamhaus.org/mailinglists.html http://www.aota.net/Email_Spam_Prevention_and_Mgmt/listmanagement.php4 http://www.cluelessmailers.org/info/listmanagement.html http://www.mail-abuse.org/manage.html If some of your addresses are possibly old or of questionable origin, it would be a good procedure to consolidate all your old e-mail lists, and send a brief note to all, requesting confirmation to remain on the list. Your privacy policy on superlogics.com is quite reasonable, so I trust you're one of the "good guys". I did not e.g. test your order process, but you should make sure that there is also a checkbox next to the e-mail address field (blank by default!) that, if checked by the customer, will allow you to send marketing material in the future. If the customer decides to leave it blank, only e-mails directly related to the current order are allowed. Thanks Christian
RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse
"Ross, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >As a list administrator for a small specialized mailing list and a >participant in Info-LabVIEW I have some opinions on this topic. > >This list has never been commmercial content free, but commercial >mailings are expected to be kept inobtrusive and brief. That seems to >work and who am I to argue. Just my two cents here. From the original post I got the impression that the poster had previous contacts with this person, as an answer to some question he had put on Info-LabVIEW. At that time the mailing was appearently appreciated or at least no hard feelings were present. If that is really the case (and I really don't know if my impression is right) then what has been happening was that the advertiser appaerently kept the posters address in his address book and later on sent again some marketing mailing out to these addresses, maybe not really related to the original inquiry. As such the whole issue would be a little bit unclear. I for myself probably wouldn't think to good about such an advertiser but on the other hand I certainly wouldn't report him as a spammer to blocklists either and most probably just delete the mail without thinking much further. If I however receive a mailing out of the blue, it would almost certainly be reported to the blocklists I use and maybe even manually reported to its ISP and then disposed off. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijkhttp://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks (was: RE: Not quite off-topic: List misuse)
John, thanks for your response. I did not intend to start a long discussion questioning the list policy. IMHO the official policy of allowing short product/company notices has worked well in the past to everybody's benefit. Considering how carefully I've controlled access to this email address and the timing of the ad I did find sufficient reason to react. John, with your response I have no longer any reason for complaint and I wish you and your company well. I'll remove myself from this thread and take any further discussion of this topic in private. -Tore At 09:53 6/1/2004, John Toto wrote: Sorry Tore. Your name was in our database and a special Data Acq. email ad was sent. I believe that is the only one you have ever gotten since we went deep into our data base. I'm very sorry for that. Your name was removed. No, I do not mine this or any other site for emails. I have no need to. I'm sure other members of this list may have gotten an email, but I doubt more than a few. You either have to email, phone, purchase or otherwise request to be on my list - but the database is large and I can't speak for each record. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. If anyone received one and wants to be removed just send me an email with remove in the subject and I will personally do it. Best Regards, John John C. Toto Sales Director SUPERLOGICS, INC.
