Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On Monday 24 October 2016 19:53:21 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk via Lazarus wrote: > > > My opinion is that event based programming needs special care . > A simulation example may be useful , for example , by using PetriSim > sources , adapted to Free Pascal . > The last chapter of "Programmieren macht Spass!" is a lift simulation: http://mseide-msegui.sourceforge.net/pics/aufzug.mpeg Martin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: > On 2016-10-24 21:29, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk via Lazarus wrote: > > http://www.blaisepascal.eu/subscribers/UK/UK_Book_Department.html > > I believe Blaise Pascal is now the official publisher of that book. From > what I can see, they now offer a PDF version of that book, so “out of > print” should be of no concern any more. :) > > > Regards, > Graeme > > -- > fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal > http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ > > My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp > -- > ___ > In my book , the following is written : " Copyright (c) 2011 All rights for the English version reserved by Blaise Pascal Magazine . Email : off...@blaisepascal.eu http://www.blaisepascalmagazine.eu " where http://www.blaisepascalmagazine.eu/ is giving "Server not found" but when searched in Google , it is finding http://www.blaisepascal.eu/ ( My opinion is that supplied code , let's say , license is not very well defined , and management of book content requires a different approach because the book is a very good reference and documentary quality . ) Mehmet Erol Sanliturk -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 2016-10-24 21:29, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk via Lazarus wrote: > http://www.blaisepascal.eu/subscribers/UK/UK_Book_Department.html I believe Blaise Pascal is now the official publisher of that book. From what I can see, they now offer a PDF version of that book, so “out of print” should be of no concern any more. :) Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 1:00 PM, wkitty42--- via Lazarus < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: > On 10/24/2016 01:53 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk via Lazarus wrote: > >> I have the book : >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Lazarus-Complete-Guide-pascal-teachin >> g/dp/9490968021 >> ( Lazarus The complete Guide ) >> > > i've been looking for that book off and on since i heard about it... > amazon currently shows it as unavailable and does not show a price for it > :( :( :( > > -- > NOTE: No off-list assistance is given without prior approval. >*Please keep mailing list traffic on the list* unless >private contact is specifically requested and granted. > -- > ___ > > > I am sorry that I have forgot to write the following sentence : "Please search the phrase Lazarus The complete Guide in Google ." I have obtained my book through a friend in Turkey who ordered it from publisher of the above book or a book seller in Europe , I do not know which one , but for a possible link , please see : http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/content.php?229-Lazarus-The-Complete-Guide-is-Finally-Here http://www.blaisepascal.eu/index.php?actie=./subscribers/subscription_mainpageUKPaypalPage2 http://www.blaisepascal.eu/subscribers/UK/UK_Book_Department.html http://www.cul.de/lazarus2.html I do not know the availability of the book at present , but , a name is good to start . Sometimes , I am ordering a used book when a new one is not available . In University libraries , it is very likely that the above book may be found . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 10/24/2016 01:53 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk via Lazarus wrote: I have the book : https://www.amazon.com/Lazarus-Complete-Guide-pascal-teaching/dp/9490968021 ( Lazarus The complete Guide ) i've been looking for that book off and on since i heard about it... amazon currently shows it as unavailable and does not show a price for it :( :( :( -- NOTE: No off-list assistance is given without prior approval. *Please keep mailing list traffic on the list* unless private contact is specifically requested and granted. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
The part I'm most interested in is using Lazarus to full effect with good architecture; I don't think the GUI portion would make a good first (or even second) course in computers/computing. I would like to see a "Software Architecture" course that used Delphi/FreePascal/Lazarus On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: > Am 2016-10-24 um 12:20 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > > On 21.10.2016 11:09, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: > >> What is the use of a program? Entertainment? > > Nowadays in 90% of the usage exactly this. > > Maybe other usage cases are more "important", but still the money is > made with Entertainment. > > There may be a misunderstanding: > I did not ask whether the *purpose* of a program is entertainment > but whether *programming* it has to be entertainment? > The aim of programming should be to get a program running > (as the programmer wants it) not to spend time with > juggling gaudy pictures, icons and videos. > > In the end, it is somehow "entertaining" if a program works > but this requires knowledge about how the programming language works. > Ignoring all facts will never lead to a satisfying programming experience. > > > -- > ___ > Lazarus mailing list > Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org > http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus > -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Travis Ayres via Lazarus < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: > With over 100 replies, we could have already written a course outline, > introduction, and some notes about events and RAD programming, maybe also > the observer pattern? > > On Oct 24, 2016 3:51 AM, "Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus" < > lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: > > Am 2016-10-24 um 12:20 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > > On 21.10.2016 11:09, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: > >> What is the use of a program? Entertainment? > > Nowadays in 90% of the usage exactly this. > > Maybe other usage cases are more "important", but still the money is > made with Entertainment. > > There may be a misunderstanding: > I did not ask whether the *purpose* of a program is entertainment > but whether *programming* it has to be entertainment? > The aim of programming should be to get a program running > (as the programmer wants it) not to spend time with > juggling gaudy pictures, icons and videos. > > In the end, it is somehow "entertaining" if a program works > but this requires knowledge about how the programming language works. > Ignoring all facts will never lead to a satisfying programming experience. > > > I have the book : https://www.amazon.com/Lazarus-Complete-Guide-pascal-teaching/dp/9490968021 ( Lazarus The complete Guide ) You can write a course outline about , for example , "Programming Pascal by using Lazarus" from thr above book . For Free Pascal , unfortunately , I do not have a teaching oriented book . For general Pascal programming , the following book may be useful : https://www.amazon.com/Structured-Programming-Pascal-Winston-Crawley/dp/0138540357/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1477331132&sr=1-1&keywords=0138540357 ( Structured Programming Using Pascal ) For event based programming , the following pages and links in them may be useful : ( Please see my messages from starting the following link : http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/2016-October/229807.html ) in page http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/2016-October/author.html especially : http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/2016-October/229976.html My opinion is that event based programming needs special care . A simulation example may be useful , for example , by using PetriSim sources , adapted to Free Pascal . Thank you very much . -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On 10/22/2016 06:25 AM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote: On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:12 AM, Martin Frb via Lazarus wrote: Which ones does it not support? When I added it to SynEdit it was complete. It had all the combinings that the utf8 standard had back then. (at least that I could find in the documentation) Of course if a new combining range is added, it will not contain it. If that is needed one needs an external (OS or otherwise) library, that can/will be updated on those occasions. Mind "combining codepoints" have nothing to do with how many codepoints will be represented by one glyph. Ok, I was confusing the Unicode terms again. I guess the biggest complexity is in glyphs and ligatures. I still don't understand their details. However for a program that must care about Unicode, like a text layout app, the rules for combining codepoints and glyphs are equally important. Codepoints for one glyph should never be split or copied separately. Isn't it so? SynEdit is a text layout app, too. In that sense the function IsCombining is not enough for practical purposes. A comprehensive library function should take care of glyphs (+ other rules), too. I looked at Bero's PUCU and the other links: http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,33064.msg214342.html#msg214342 but it went over my head. I must study the issue more later. * A reality check! * Despite problems and incompleteness of our Unicode support, it is actually better than most other solutions out there. Ok, most programming tools support Unicode somehow but people use them wrong. A good example is our forum SMF software. It deals with text layout and definitely should handle Unicode but it does not. Not even single Codepoints beyond BMP which should be the most easy case! No combining rules needed or anything. Try to add this text to a forum post: (I hope the mail SW can deal with it...) "Have 🍷 for FPC 💓 Lazarus." Now the fact is that code made with FPC / Lazarus using the LazUnicode functions and enumerators supports Unicode already much better than most code out there! Juha I think that there is a degree of confusion about the use of ligatures. Ligatures (at least in English) are typographical elements, not language elements. Not all typefaces support them and the code for a ligature should never appear in the source text. It is the function of the display software to combine adjacent characters and display the appropriate ligature if and only if the font that is used supports them. A proportional typeface may display the character sequence 'fl' by using the appropriate ligature glyph. A monospaced typeface would display the same sequence as two characters, as would any typeface that did not include the ligature glyphs. Ligatures improve the appearance of text but are strictly a display function and shouldn't actually appear in the text itself. This may not be true for other writing systems and other languages but is certainly true for English and perhaps other western European languages as well. -- TRUTH in her dress finds facts too tight. In fiction she moves with ease. Stray Birds by Rabindranath Tagore -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
With over 100 replies, we could have already written a course outline, introduction, and some notes about events and RAD programming, maybe also the observer pattern? On Oct 24, 2016 3:51 AM, "Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus" < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote: Am 2016-10-24 um 12:20 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > On 21.10.2016 11:09, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: >> What is the use of a program? Entertainment? > Nowadays in 90% of the usage exactly this. > Maybe other usage cases are more "important", but still the money is made with Entertainment. There may be a misunderstanding: I did not ask whether the *purpose* of a program is entertainment but whether *programming* it has to be entertainment? The aim of programming should be to get a program running (as the programmer wants it) not to spend time with juggling gaudy pictures, icons and videos. In the end, it is somehow "entertaining" if a program works but this requires knowledge about how the programming language works. Ignoring all facts will never lead to a satisfying programming experience. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On 24.10.2016 15:09, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote: These functions exist. This of course is great (while the lack of documentation supposedly makes them hard to use). In fact I am not asking, but the question is part of the OP's problem. And here I wanted to point out the ambiguity of the term "identical" on that behalf. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 14:35:28 +0200 Michael Schnell wrote: >[...] but even trying to find out a very short information is identical is not decently possible. >[...] > I meant to point out exactly this ambiguity: > > identically coded vs. identically looking (e.g. combining codepoints), > vs identical presumed letters if looking differently (ligatures), ... About "identically coded": That is "decently possible" - simple string/byte comparison. About "identically looking": I guess you mean composed vs decomposed form. That is converting normal forms. There are functions to normalize, but the information is scattered and it would be nice if someone would write a page. About "ligatures": I guess you mean "collation". Same problem. Needs better documentation. Basically you are asking for various compare and normalization functions. These functions exist. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On 24.10.2016 13:34, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote: That depends on what you mean with "identical". You are absolutely right. Very sorry for being critical while being vague myself (again typing faster than thinking) ;) . I meant to point out exactly this ambiguity: identically coded vs. identically looking (e.g. combining codepoints), vs identical presumed letters if looking differently (ligatures), ... -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 12:53:31 +0200 Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > On 23.10.2016 11:31, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: > > > > But Unicode should have cared. > > It was made for its use on computers. > I don't think so. > > I suppose it was defined top allow for printing out digital documents in > mind, but not with working with them. Non sense. The various normal forms aren't needed for printing, but for "working with them". Same for the various encodings like UTF-8 and UTF-16. Think about the other type systems with diacritics like TeX. That is made for printing documents, not for working with them. > At least this i what the outcome suggests: printing works just fine, but > even trying to find out a very short information is identical is not > decently possible. That depends on what you mean with "identical". I guess you mean the topic "collation". It would be nice if someone with some knowledge about that topic could start a wiki page or fpdoc topic to list the common functions for them. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
El 24/10/2016 a las 2:19, Lars via Lazarus escribió: Those are some interesting reads. It confirms my gut instinct to choose chromium embedded (CEF) for development, instead of mozilla embedded, as chromium embedded seems more designed for embedding at this stage than the more immature firefox code. Hello, Yes, currently Chromium seems to be better, but anyway it will need a lot of work starting from the CEF as if my brain serves me CEF API is C++ so you will find the same problem as Qt interface, a very big DLL/so to convert C++ to plain C functions that will need a quite good maintain. I wonder how often chromium embedded breaks their api, or changes the V8 engine so that old stuff no longer works. As far as I know it is quite stable now. One thing I'd really like is a single DLL to ship with an application instead of mounds and mounds of files that these embedded solutions require. However I guess that's not going to happen. No for sure, that will not happen :) unless you use some dirty tricks. In the past I was able to "inject" 3 or 4 DLLs in my EXE and use them, but only in 32 bits Windows and I was unable to port the code to the 64 bits windows loader (it basically performs the same actions Windows do when load a DLL from disk, but the function loads it from a resource and adjust the call pointers and other things as Windows will do it). Of course that method will not with all DLLs. -- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On 23.10.2016 11:31, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: But Unicode should have cared. It was made for its use on computers. I don't think so. I suppose it was defined top allow for printing out digital documents in mind, but not with working with them. At least this i what the outcome suggests: printing works just fine, but even trying to find out a very short information is identical is not decently possible. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
Am 2016-10-24 um 12:20 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > On 21.10.2016 11:09, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: >> What is the use of a program? Entertainment? > Nowadays in 90% of the usage exactly this. > Maybe other usage cases are more "important", but still the money is made with Entertainment. There may be a misunderstanding: I did not ask whether the *purpose* of a program is entertainment but whether *programming* it has to be entertainment? The aim of programming should be to get a program running (as the programmer wants it) not to spend time with juggling gaudy pictures, icons and videos. In the end, it is somehow "entertaining" if a program works but this requires knowledge about how the programming language works. Ignoring all facts will never lead to a satisfying programming experience. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
Am 2016-10-24 um 12:13 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > On 18.10.2016 17:16, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: >> Yes, therefore start with simple procedural (console) >> programs that let them have immediate success with >> all the elementary things that a program consists of >> (variables/types, loops, commands, etc.). > Yep. Satisfying for a Nerd, but it does not get something useful done and hence frustrating for a beginning application developer. You mean it is possible to write a program with Free Pascal without knowing about variables, loops, etc.? I doubt this. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
Am 2016-10-24 um 11:57 schrieb Michael Schnell via Lazarus: > On 21.10.2016 09:51, Lars via Lazarus wrote: >> The concept of callbacks is very similar to events. > The difference is that with a callback you usually know both sides and hence how exactly it is called, > while with an event (especially when fired by the LCL on behalf of something that happens in the GUI, aka RAD) > you don't need to know exactly how and why it is fired, you just place your user code in it and are happy (at least if you are not a nerd like myself). You cannot "be happy" if you don't know exactly when an event is fired. It is of course important to know that. Otherwise you only assume something (that must not be true). The discussions about events fired by the user but not when changes are done by code showed this clearly. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] How to use strings properly with fixes_1_6 and FPC 3.0.0?
On 21.10.2016 12:05, Gabor Boros via Lazarus wrote: 2016. 10. 21. 10:25 keltezéssel, Juha Manninen via Lazarus írta: * Please read the wiki page ... I read, I read but if contains buggy example... ;-) I need a quick and a rock solid solution. AFAIK, the only decent advice is never to use the numbers in Pos() / Length() / Copy() / Delete() for anything else tan with these functions. don't try to do any interpretation of these numbers. Never use the term "Character". -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 21.10.2016 10:12, Lars via Lazarus wrote: Today's bloatware applications are so large no one can understand them IMHO, you did a good job to scare everybody away from even thinking about starting to try programming. So we should just stop "Teaching Pascal at College". -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 21.10.2016 11:09, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: What is the use of a program? Entertainment? Nowadays in 90% of the usage exactly this. Maybe other usage cases are more "important", but still the money is made with Entertainment. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 18.10.2016 17:16, Jürgen Hestermann via Lazarus wrote: Yes, therefore start with simple procedural (console) programs that let them have immediate success with all the elementary things that a program consists of (variables/types, loops, commands, etc.). Yep. Satisfying for a Nerd, but it does not get something useful done and hence frustrating for a beginning application developer. If you do it the other way round you only delay the date of frustration but you do not avoid it. That is true if (s)he one day will be confronted with large, complex, unusual or critical tasks. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 21.10.2016 14:05, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: Win32 API works with message queues. Happily, the application programmer does not need to know about that, as the LCL completely hides the underlying complexity. He sees the same type of "GUI"-events, independent of running on Winx (OS-introduced message queues) or Linux (Event Queues implemented by the LCL itself) (The reality is even more complex). -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College
On 21.10.2016 09:51, Lars via Lazarus wrote: The concept of callbacks is very similar to events. The difference is that with a callback you usually know both sides and hence how exactly it is called, while with an event (especially when fired by the LCL on behalf of something that happens in the GUI, aka RAD) you don't need to know exactly how and why it is fired, you just place your user code in it and are happy (at least if you are not a nerd like myself). -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Mouse move and mouse click
No linking error here on Manjaro Linux with Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.0. Try a clean build of everything. BTW, you forgot to mention your FPC / Lazarus versions. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
