Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Florian Klaempfl wrote: And more importantly, where will this lead us in the future? It keeps the fun for the current developers so they will continue to work on fpc. As soon as you get money for something, you've pressure, deadlines etc. and the fun will be lost. Well said. Couldn't have said it better. The thing is FPC OSS. It's more than your typical OSS which in most cases has monetary influence. FPC works 100% free, works well and people actually like what they do. Add money and all is lost. It's going along slowly but it's going... Ales _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Ales Katona wrote: Florian Klaempfl wrote: And more importantly, where will this lead us in the future? It keeps the fun for the current developers so they will continue to work on fpc. As soon as you get money for something, you've pressure, deadlines etc. and the fun will be lost. Well said. Couldn't have said it better. The thing is FPC OSS. It's more than your typical OSS which in most cases has monetary influence. FPC works 100% free, works well and people actually like what they do. Add money and all is lost. It's going along slowly but it's going... To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Florian Klaempfl wrote: Ales Katona wrote: Florian Klaempfl wrote: And more importantly, where will this lead us in the future? It keeps the fun for the current developers so they will continue to work on fpc. As soon as you get money for something, you've pressure, deadlines etc. and the fun will be lost. Well said. Couldn't have said it better. The thing is FPC OSS. It's more than your typical OSS which in most cases has monetary influence. FPC works 100% free, works well and people actually like what they do. Add money and all is lost. It's going along slowly but it's going... To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. Funny, about the same amound crossed my mind :) Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. It would speed up development but ruin everything else in the end IMHO. Ales _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Ales Katona wrote: To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. It would speed up development but ruin everything else in the end IMHO. Well, one could hire e.g. a developer (not one the core developers) being payed to do gtk2 support and one to fix other bugs. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Florian Klaempfl wrote: To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. No. We take a piece DNA from F.K. and clone him 10 times. One week later we have FPC 6.0 and Lazarus 5.0 _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Am Freitag, 28. April 2006 15:42 schrieb Florian Klaempfl: Ales Katona wrote: To speed up development significantly you need at least 1 Mio Eur and this is unlikely to raise. It would speed up development but ruin everything else in the end IMHO. Well, one could hire e.g. a developer (not one the core developers) being payed to do gtk2 support and one to fix other bugs. .. and one to keep the docs in sync and maybe other surrounding stuff that is to easy for a core developer (fpc.cfg template, buildcrossbinutils and buildcrosssnaphot scripts, rpm-spec files ...) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
At first I did not care if there was a Free Pascal foundation or not. But with recent events I have changed my mind. I think if there were people being paid to be involved there would be more response to this Mail List and other issues. If my rent money depended on making sure Free Pascal and Lazarus moved forward I know that I would make sure the users were getting their monies worth. In fact if my rent money depended on the number of users I'd be marketing. John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone. I read a post about Google Summer of Code 2006 and Lazarus project resources, and I wonder, is there a Lazarus Foundation or FreePascal Foundation ? I have check both websites, and we have both (open source) communities, but legally speaking, I haven't found any foundation. In case there, isn't. What do you think of making one ? Well, this has been discussed quite a few times in the FPC group, but the enthousiasm for doing this has always been not big enough to start on it. It takes some effort to do this, which the core developers rather spend on coding, I assume :) But maybe we can reconsider the matter once more. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone. I read a post about Google Summer of Code 2006 and Lazarus project resources, and I wonder, is there a Lazarus Foundation or FreePascal Foundation ? Can you list all advantages and disadvantages ? Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Micha Nelissen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone. I read a post about Google Summer of Code 2006 and Lazarus project resources, and I wonder, is there a Lazarus Foundation or FreePascal Foundation ? Can you list all advantages and disadvantages ? Micha +++ donations (also from governments or word wide organizations like EU) - founders need to give money - lawyers are not cheap - registration procedure required Regards Boguslaw _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Bogusław Brandys wrote: Micha Nelissen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone. I read a post about Google Summer of Code 2006 and Lazarus project resources, and I wonder, is there a Lazarus Foundation or FreePascal Foundation ? Can you list all advantages and disadvantages ? Micha +++ donations (also from governments or word wide organizations like EU) Donations are something we currently not really need, at least speaking for FPC. We've some things to pay like dns entries or servers but that's little. - founders need to give money - lawyers are not cheap - registration procedure required - reducing our already limited time even more. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On 4/26/06, Florian Klaempfl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donations are something we currently not really need, at least speaking for FPC. We've some things to pay like dns entries or servers but that's little. But you can reinvest the donations into Free Pascal. + You can buy hardware with donations. How can a port to some strange hardware be made without that hardware? + The Bounties aren't necessarely outside people paying developers to do things. If we had donations you could use them to fund further development by people outside the main core group. You could say for example: $1000 for whoever port Free Pascal to Palm + You can use the money to travel to open source forums and make lectures about Free Pascal / Lazarus As a Lazarus / Free Pascal fan I would like it to be as good as it can. And I think that if we could find a way to receive donations and reinvest them into the software it would be even better =) Also, do we really need a foundation to receive donations? - reducing our already limited time even more. But we only need one person to loose time creating the foundation -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: But you can reinvest the donations into Free Pascal. + You can buy hardware with donations. How can a port to some strange hardware be made without that hardware? Not required in most cases, there are already farms for OSS provided for free. If it's not in one, the guy who wants it has some such machine. + The Bounties aren't necessarely outside people paying developers to do things. If we had donations you could use them to fund further development by people outside the main core group. You could say for example: $1000 for whoever port Free Pascal to Palm The result of this is questionable at best, there are many hidden dangers. + You can use the money to travel to open source forums and make lectures about Free Pascal / Lazarus Time is not money in this regard. Time cannot be given. And AFAIK the devs don't have the time. As a Lazarus / Free Pascal fan I would like it to be as good as it can. And I think that if we could find a way to receive donations and reinvest them into the software it would be even better =) Also, do we really need a foundation to receive donations? No. IMHO But we only need one person to loose time creating the foundation Which has to be trusted, thus a dev who has no time.. and we are at the beginning again. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On 4/26/06, Ales Katona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not required in most cases, there are already farms for OSS provided for free. Source Forge for example has a server farm. But it doesn't provide Free Pascal, so it is of no use for me. + The Bounties aren't necessarely outside people paying developers to do things. If we had donations you could use them to fund further development by people outside the main core group. You could say for example: $1000 for whoever port Free Pascal to Palm The result of this is questionable at best, there are many hidden dangers. IMHO Summer of Code from Google is almost this, and we could make such investments just like it. So, I am to assume that you beliave that google summer of code is also questionable at best? Then why many other important open source projects beliave on it? Mono, Python, wxWidgets, GCC all are there, and all accept donations and investments. Why so much resistence from Pascal? And more importantly, where will this lead us in the future? -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On 4/26/06, Ales Katona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not required in most cases, there are already farms for OSS provided for free. Source Forge for example has a server farm. But it doesn't provide Free Pascal, so it is of no use for me. Install it in ~/bin. + The Bounties aren't necessarely outside people paying developers to do things. If we had donations you could use them to fund further development by people outside the main core group. You could say for example: $1000 for whoever port Free Pascal to Palm The result of this is questionable at best, there are many hidden dangers. IMHO Summer of Code from Google is almost this, and we could make such investments just like it. So, I am to assume that you beliave that google summer of code is also questionable at best? Then why many other important open source projects beliave on it? Mono, Python, wxWidgets, GCC all are there, and all accept donations and investments. Why so much resistence from Pascal? These projects are driven by people doing the project as their daily job. None of the current fpc developers want to do this. And more importantly, where will this lead us in the future? It keeps the fun for the current developers so they will continue to work on fpc. As soon as you get money for something, you've pressure, deadlines etc. and the fun will be lost. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On 4/26/06, L505 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way a real free server could ever exist, is if we had free solar power/alcohol power and free hardware foundations Free as in Freedom. Not Free Beer. Or more clearly: Free software is about Freedom and not about cost. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On 4/26/06, L505 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way a real free server could ever exist, is if we had free solar power/alcohol power and free hardware foundations Free as in Freedom. The patronization - I've read the differences between cost and speech for 5 years now. I'm no GNU amateur - I know all about RMS. But if you read my message again - you will see that I wasn't talking about cost - you just interpreted it that way. Read my message again in the notion that I was talking about speech, then. Not Free Beer. Or more clearly: Free software is about Freedom and not about cost. The GNU states that you must not hide the sources and charge money for your source code. This is clearly about cost, which is one aspect of freedom. Cost + OtherRestrictions := PartsOfFreedom; And what about if I declare a license on consulting to be free (as in speech, yah yah, I heard you)? You may not directly charge money for the consulting about your software - you may only charge money for services that ship the consulting of your software to your friend. But wait a minute, consulting does not need to be shipped. It can be submitted electronically. So what do you do then, Richard? So RMS is out of a job? (I believe most free software folks make their living off consulting and custom software.) Taking this one step further: if I declare a free custom software license that states that all custom software must be free (as in speech, yah yah, not about cost), and you can not directly charge money for the custom software, as that is a restriction. Then what do you do? ESR out of a job now too? (Eric states on his website that one way to be corporate with open source is to create custom software - catch22). Cost is one restriction - and is a part of the whole freedom issue. Again - but if you read my message again - you will see that I wasn't talking about cost, you just interpretted it that way. Read my message again in the notion that I was talking about speech, then. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
On 4/26/06, L505 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GNU states that you must not hide the sources So far ok and charge money for your source code. This is clearly about cost, which is one aspect of freedom. Where is that on GPL? I think GPL does not prohibit people to sell source code. It only says that if people sell a binary they must also distribute the source. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
[lazarus] Lazarus/FPC Foundation
Hi, everyone. I read a post about Google Summer of Code 2006 and Lazarus project resources, and I wonder, is there a Lazarus Foundation or FreePascal Foundation ? I have check both websites, and we have both (open source) communities, but legally speaking, I haven't found any foundation. In case there, isn't. What do you think of making one ? - Marco Aurelio Ramirez Carrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
