[lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
2006/5/20, Zlatko Matić [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... It is, I believe, a good thing to think about. I will resume my idea in only two points, if this was possible; I'm not an old-timer in this project, nor in core devel: - have a roadmap for a final stable release of a version 1 with anticipated work load, tasks, and probable release date (we already have some parts of that point) -- clear project management to direct efforts; - have a visible and strong community of people that use the tool in major projects and commercial projects; this will influence people to also choose this technology for other projects since it has major adoption -- project visibility and adoption. But I know, this is an open source project; but with no leadership... people will leave the ship :). But I know delphi was (and is still) very popular, but for some reasons there is the perception of (or real) market loss. I have not idea why. Maybe others have. My 2 cents, for thinking too, not for arguing. -- Alexandre Leclerc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
Alexandre Leclerc wrote: 2006/5/20, Zlatko Matić [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... It is, I believe, a good thing to think about. I will resume my idea in only two points, if this was possible; I'm not an old-timer in this project, nor in core devel: - have a roadmap for a final stable release of a version 1 with anticipated work load, tasks, and probable release date (we already have some parts of that point) -- clear project management to direct efforts; I think this list is hard to manage, but maybe you have some tips: http://www.freepascal.org/mantis/view_all_set.php?type=3source_query_id=91 Vincent _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
On Saturday 20 May 2006 05:46, Zlatko Matić wrote: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... I think you bring up a very valid point. But it is based on the assumption the founders and current leaders want to compete. I doubt they (the founders and current leaders) care if Mono becomes the RAD of choice. I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. I still work with windows products that feed my family but I see the future as Linux. I also see Linux feeding my sense of good. So I wanted a Linux programming environment that offered similar experiences to my current environment and allowed me to contribute. Lazarus fits perfectly for now. But I see the hand writting on the wall. Mono could easily over shadow Lazarus in the next few months. First Mono has funding. Second it has a very large following. And third the Mono community take the project very seriously. Side note: Many of the Mono community just hate windows. I recently noticed a thread on the Lazarus mailing list suggesting that the Pascal compiler support different languages. Mono already does it. I read many comments on how the IDE should support GTK2. Mono does it and has a GUI builder. So your point is valid but in the end does it matter? BTW Mono has issues too. It does not compile into a stand alone executable. The support lib's are very big. Just to name two. John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. All of us who think this way should start a group/joint endeavor together because I am voting for the same thing, and I'm sick of all the folks out there who have real jobs and consider programming just a game that you play on the side. Or worse, the folks who are in school and participate in open source projects when they are at school, but then as soon as they get out of school and get a real job they ditch the open source project that seemed so right to them in school but so wrong to them once they found out that family requires a real job and a real living. Or the folks who work on an open source project but then Microsoft contacts them and immediately they go and work for Microsoft (hello, Gentoo founder - sorry to insult you). So, if anyone feels the same way, or at least you have something in common with JohnF and my thinking, we should joint venture, no? If this is offtopic, respond to JohnF and me privately maybe, and we could get something on the go. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
On Sat, 20 May 2006, L505 wrote: I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. All of us who think this way should start a group/joint endeavor together because I am voting for the same thing, and I'm sick of all the folks out there who have real jobs and consider programming just a game that you play on the side. Erhm ? The above goes for almost the whole FPC and Lazarus core teams ? So, should we understand that you are sick of us ?? ;-) Jokes aside: You know the point of view of the core programmers, it has been discussed at length in the various mailing lists. We will not start a group/foundation ourselves. But personally, I'll be happy to help where help is needed with forming a group, and act as a liaison. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
