Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
Excellent feedback Charles. Thanks. Tom Charles Fry wrote: The issues that bother me are: I constantly find myself cutting and pasting from the online scriptures into documents I am editing. Doing this with footnotes enabled is a trecherous endeaver, as the footnote letters get copied into the text which is pasted. I just noticed the "Hide footnote indicators" option, but that actually turns footnotes off. It would be nice to have an option (even as a default!) which turned off the footnote letters, but left the links. In my mind, the letters themselves are a remnant of the printed version of the scriptures, and are antiquated by the use of hyperlinks. The current display format is highly unreadable. It may be sufficient for reference, but it is quite ill-adapted for online reading. I don't know what the best solution is, but some possibilities include: thiner single column, multi-column display, paragraph format display. One could even display the scriptures in fairly thin columns, as is done in our printed scriptures, with scrolling (perhaps aided by _javascript_?) to the left and right rather than up and down. At this point, I suspect that almost any change will more readable than the current instantiation. :-) Charles -Original Message- From: Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:35:59 -0600 To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Although I am over the open source initiative for the Church, I've also been asked to help project manage the online scriptures program. The current version that is on http://scriptures.lds.org has been up for quite some time. It had some limitations in that there was no easy way to deploy additional languages. For quite some time a new version of the scriptures has been under development. It has been designed around supporting multiple languages. So, although the initial look and feel of this new version does not look much different, it is a completely rewritten piece of code. I'm sending this email to enlist your help in testing this new scriptures program. You can find it at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org. Give it a try and send me feedback on bugs or improvements. Here is a piece of history about this software that I think is of HIGH interest to this audience. This program was not written by the Church but was written by a member and then donated to the Church. Even the original version that has been on the website for some time was written by this member. The Church has offered help with some pieces of the work (translation, technical advice, etc) but 99% of the code was done by this member and a few others who helped him. I've talked with the member about the possibility of open sourcing this code and allowing others to work on it and he is fully supportive of this approach. Using an open source approach, we could add PDA links, alternate formatting and an API set to integrate the online scriptures into other programs. We are not sure this will happen yet as there may be some extenuating circumstances we have to first solve but I thought you all would find it interesting that an open source model can work for the Church. Meanwhile, please help test http://beta.scriptures.lds.org and thanks for your help! Tom -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell -- NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -- ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell --
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
The font we currently use is Arial. We have to stick with a font that is available or easily substituted on every OS because if we were to use something like Trebuchet, few people would have that font on their system and so they would get some substitution that may not be suitable. Tom Steven H. McCown wrote: I read somewhere that Trebuchet and Veranda were considered the best fonts for online reading. Could that help the readability? Does anyone know what the current font is? Steve -Original Message- On Behalf Of Charles Fry The current display format is highly unreadable. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell --
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
On 6/15/06, Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The font we currently use is Arial. We have to stick with a font that is available or easily substituted on every OS because if we were to use something like Trebuchet, few people would have that font on their system and so they would get some substitution that may not be suitable. Tom Verdana has been available on every modern Windows, Mac, and Linux system that I've used, for what it's worth. ~ Nathan Stocks ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
You do know you can specify in order the font faces you prefer, right? Verdana,Trebuchet,Arial,sans serif Tom -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 OpenOffice.org v. MS Office: Kids love OOo. Wife didn't notice I switched. Get OOo free. There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for Gandhi ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
Yes you can. Does the OS make substitutions before going to the next font in the list? I'm not sure on that point. Tom Thomas Haws wrote: You do know you can specify in order the font faces you prefer, right? Verdana,Trebuchet,Arial,sans serif Tom -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
It goes down the list and uses the first font on the list that it can find. So you put the exact favorite you want first, then proceed forward to more general substitutes in case the first isn't found. Tom On 6/15/06, Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you can. Does the OS make substitutions before going to the next font in the list? I'm not sure on that point. Tom Thomas Haws wrote: You do know you can specify in order the font faces you prefer, right? Verdana,Trebuchet,Arial,sans serif Tom -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 OpenOffice.org v. MS Office: Kids love OOo. Wife didn't notice I switched. Get OOo free. There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for Gandhi ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
Steven H. McCown wrote: #1 problem? How about the #2 problem. :) You also can't change the highlight color on searched terms. For colorblind people (like myself), this makes it really hard to see what was just highlighted. I wrote in about it and was told that it may be considered for 'the next version'. What The church's website is not 508 compliant? Say it isn't so. Fortunately, my color-blind father never lived to see the day or not _see_, as the case may be. -- A. Rick Anderson ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 01:55:30PM -0400, Charles Fry wrote: The issues that bother me are: I constantly find myself cutting and pasting from the online scriptures into documents I am editing. Doing this with footnotes enabled is a trecherous endeaver, as the footnote letters get copied into the text which is pasted. I just noticed the Hide footnote indicators option, but that actually turns footnotes off. It would be nice to have an option (even as a default!) which turned off the footnote letters, but left the links. In my mind, the letters themselves are a remnant of the printed version of the scriptures, and are antiquated by the use of hyperlinks. I agree with this. Is there a reason for the letters any longer? They get in the way, and make the spacing between the lines uneven. My preference would be for the hyperlinks to exist with a subtle colour change and no underline (without me having to change my browser settings or impose my own CSS on the page), and for the One footnote at a time option (which seems to have gone away) to be the default or even the only footnote display option. The current display format is highly unreadable. It may be sufficient for reference, but it is quite ill-adapted for online reading. I don't know what the best solution is, but some possibilities include: thiner single column, multi-column display, paragraph format display. One could even display the scriptures in fairly thin columns, as is done in our printed scriptures, with scrolling (perhaps aided by Javascript?) to the left and right rather than up and down. At this point, I suspect that almost any change will more readable than the current instantiation. :-) I rarely read more than a couple of chapters online, so I might not be hitting the problems you obviously are, but when I read more than a couple of verses I generally increase the font size such that there are only 8 or so words per line then just slowly work down. That seems to work fine for me. I wouldn't want more than one column. I see no benefits to that. Nor would I want a column of some arbitrary width. I'm quite capable of selecting the width that is best for me. I have a nice 24 widescreen monitor set at 1920x1200. I really don't need someone deciding I can only use 800. And the number of sites which pull that stunt is amazing, but that's a rant for another day. -- Paul Johnson - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pjcj.net ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
I wouldn't want more than one column. I see no benefits to that. Nor would I want a column of some arbitrary width. I'm quite capable of selecting the width that is best for me. I have a nice 24 widescreen monitor set at 1920x1200. I really don't need someone deciding I can only use 800. And the number of sites which pull that stunt is amazing, but that's a rant for another day. In that case having a paragraph format would be nice. If you ever tried using your 1920 pixel width to read the scriptures (in the normal font size) you will be faced with little more than whitespace. Charles -- Rip Van Winkle Said he'd rather Snooze for years Than shave With lather Burma-Shave http://burma-shave.org/jingles/1938/rip_van_winkle ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
I read somewhere that Trebuchet and Veranda were considered the best fonts for online reading. Could that help the readability? Does anyone know what the current font is? Steve -Original Message- On Behalf Of Charles Fry The current display format is highly unreadable. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
I can only select English as the language for the scriptures. How do
we select other languages?
Jesse
On 6/12/06, Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Although I am over the open source initiative for the Church, I've also
been asked to help project manage the online scriptures program. The
current version that is on http://scriptures.lds.org has been up for
quite some time. It had some limitations in that there was no easy way
to deploy additional languages. For quite some time a new version of
the scriptures has been under development. It has been designed around
supporting multiple languages. So, although the initial look and feel
of this new version does not look much different, it is a completely
rewritten piece of code. I'm sending this email to enlist your help in
testing this new scriptures program. You can find it at
http://beta.scriptures.lds.org. Give it a try and send me feedback on
bugs or improvements.
Here is a piece of history about this software that I think is of HIGH
interest to this audience. This program was not written by the Church
but was written by a member and then donated to the Church. Even the
original version that has been on the website for some time was written
by this member. The Church has offered help with some pieces of the
work (translation, technical advice, etc) but 99% of the code was done
by this member and a few others who helped him. I've talked with the
member about the possibility of open sourcing this code and allowing
others to work on it and he is fully supportive of this approach. Using
an open source approach, we could add PDA links, alternate formatting
and an API set to integrate the online scriptures into other programs.
We are not sure this will happen yet as there may be some extenuating
circumstances we have to first solve but I thought you all would find it
interesting that an open source model can work for the Church.
Meanwhile, please help test http://beta.scriptures.lds.org and thanks
for your help!
Tom
--
Tom Welch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(801) 240-1609
(858) 829-4614 - Cell
--
NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message.
--
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Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
I should have specified that we only have English available at this time. Tom Jesse Stay wrote: I can only select English as the language for the scriptures. How do we select other languages? Jesse On 6/12/06, Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I am over the open source initiative for the Church, I've also been asked to help project manage the online scriptures program. The current version that is on http://scriptures.lds.org has been up for quite some time. It had some limitations in that there was no easy way to deploy additional languages. For quite some time a new version of the scriptures has been under development. It has been designed around supporting multiple languages. So, although the initial look and feel of this new version does not look much different, it is a completely rewritten piece of code. I'm sending this email to enlist your help in testing this new scriptures program. You can find it at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org. Give it a try and send me feedback on bugs or improvements. Here is a piece of history about this software that I think is of HIGH interest to this audience. This program was not written by the Church but was written by a member and then donated to the Church. Even the original version that has been on the website for some time was written by this member. The Church has offered help with some pieces of the work (translation, technical advice, etc) but 99% of the code was done by this member and a few others who helped him. I've talked with the member about the possibility of open sourcing this code and allowing others to work on it and he is fully supportive of this approach. Using an open source approach, we could add PDA links, alternate formatting and an API set to integrate the online scriptures into other programs. We are not sure this will happen yet as there may be some extenuating circumstances we have to first solve but I thought you all would find it interesting that an open source model can work for the Church. Meanwhile, please help test http://beta.scriptures.lds.org and thanks for your help! Tom -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell -- NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -- ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss -- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801) 240-1609 (858) 829-4614 - Cell -- NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -- ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] New Scriptures Beta Test Site
I know it's the same as the previous version, but I like the photographs and maps. Is there any chance of getting larger versions, perhaps linked to from the current images? I would love to be able to download the whole lot for offline use. Or failing that, just some decent html of the standard works, ideally with footnotes and stuff. Especially so for the foreign language versions. That's been my biggest wish regarding the scriptures.lds.org site since it was originally launched. It's great to have the scriptures available online, and I love having the whole site including the maps, the footnotes, the Bible dictionary and such. But I don't use it much, because most of the time, when I'm looking for a scripture, I'm not connected to the internet. So, I end up using the plain-vanilla HTML version that I have on my laptop, with no footnotes, no maps, no Bible dictionary, etc. (but with my custom very-large-font CSS -- I use my laptop for scripture reading precisely because I can get larger text size than the biggest print version, with much less weight to carry around.) ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
