Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
On Wednesday 09 May 2007 11:16:41 pm Steven H. McCown wrote: The real problem with VoIP is that it doesn't work when the power goes out. Neither does 911. Not without a backup power supply, anyway. If this is a concern, youc can buy a UPS and plug the VOIP box and router into it. These devices draw so little power that they'll run for hours on a UPS designed to keep a PC alive for 20 minutes. If you have a laptop, it's also a good idea to plug your WiFi AP into the UPS. That way you'll have Internet access during a power outage. Until your laptop battery gives out, anyway. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Thanks for the Information Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Shawn Willden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:03:38 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? On Wednesday 09 May 2007 11:16:41 pm Steven H. McCown wrote: The real problem with VoIP is that it doesn't work when the power goes out. Neither does 911. Not without a backup power supply, anyway. If this is a concern, youc can buy a UPS and plug the VOIP box and router into it. These devices draw so little power that they'll run for hours on a UPS designed to keep a PC alive for 20 minutes. If you have a laptop, it's also a good idea to plug your WiFi AP into the UPS. That way you'll have Internet access during a power outage. Until your laptop battery gives out, anyway. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
That depends. Telco has their own power, most cable companies do not (from my experience). With a large power outage (I've been in several...Ohio-NewYork a couple years back, and recently here in the Washington windstorm) VOIP is out of luck. This is the primary reason I won't use it. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Willden Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:04 AM To: ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? On Wednesday 09 May 2007 11:16:41 pm Steven H. McCown wrote: The real problem with VoIP is that it doesn't work when the power goes out. Neither does 911. Not without a backup power supply, anyway. If this is a concern, youc can buy a UPS and plug the VOIP box and router into it. These devices draw so little power that they'll run for hours on a UPS designed to keep a PC alive for 20 minutes. If you have a laptop, it's also a good idea to plug your WiFi AP into the UPS. That way you'll have Internet access during a power outage. Until your laptop battery gives out, anyway. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
On Thursday 10 May 2007 09:09:25 am David B Heise wrote: That depends. Telco has their own power, most cable companies do not (from my experience). With a large power outage (I've been in several...Ohio-NewYork a couple years back, and recently here in the Washington windstorm) VOIP is out of luck. This is the primary reason I won't use it. I don't know what's common or not, but the cable company in my area (Comcast) seems to stay up through power outages. Perhasp that's because they were only local outages, though. I don't consider 911 and power outages a real showstopper for VOIP, though. Just use your cellphone. If you don't have a cell, or live where you can't get reliable service, then I'd agree you really need a POTS line. Shawn. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
RE: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Sharing internet access is likely against the service agreement. You might want to check. If they don't have a line, why VoIP? How about a cell phone? With the right cable, you can use the cell phone as a wireless modem. I don't know where Sanford is, but if they have Edge (the technology not the telco), then access can be very quick. The real problem with VoIP is that it doesn't work when the power goes out. Neither does 911. Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Big Daddy Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:10 AM To: LDS Open Source Software Subject: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? Scenerio: My brother's in-laws have a trailer in sanford. I will be setting them up with wireless internet access this week (shared from a neighbor, with permission). They do not have a phone line and need a telephone so therfore want me to set them up with VOIP. I will need to have the VOIP adapter before I go there (2 hr drive each way) so he wants to be what is needed when I am with him so he does not get the wrong thing. Is see that Circuit City, Best Buy, etc sell adapters with Vonage or Skype. I do have a VOIP speed test utility but it can't be run until I set up the wireless. Questions: 1. Is wireless (usually) sufficent for VOIP? 2. Which VOIP provider do I NOT go with. I understand one of them Vonage or Skype filed for bancruptcy. 3. Is there any thing else I need to be aware of? Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check out new http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc= X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM- cars at Yahoo! Autos. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Thanks for all the good information. He decided that he would go with Vonage. The onlly problem was that the kit that was bought had to be connected to a router. I ran a speed test last night and he has good speed. Today he is going to trade the kit he bought for a one that has a router built in that connects through a USB port. Were pretty sure that he can configure it himself. Thanks Again Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Sean Gates [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 8:03:29 PM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/l/latency.html ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
I need to ask you a few questions before I can give you some advice that would help and not be a hindrance: 1. Since the wireless connection is shared, the throughput is most important. How fast is the connection to the ISP going in both directions? 2. If you know it, who is the ISP providing the connection? 3. What kind of connection is it from the neighbor to the ISP? 4. Does your brother's in-laws have any special telephone needs such as fax, or special features desired? 5. Is it more important to have good quality audio and service than price? 6. Do they call outside the US? I know it's a lot of questions to start with, but there are a plethora providers out there far better than either Skype or Vonage, so I want to direct you towards several that might work. Big Daddy wrote: Scenerio: My brother's in-laws have a trailer in sanford. I will be setting them up withwireless internet access this week (shared from a neighbor, with permission). Theydo not have a phone line andneed a telephone so therfore want me to set them up with VOIP. I will need to have the VOIP adapter before I go there (2 hr drive each way) so he wants to be what is needed when I am with him so he does not get the wrong thing. Is see that Circuit City, Best Buy, etc sell adapters with Vonage or Skype. I do have a VOIP speed test utility but it can't be run until I set up the wireless. Questions: 1. Is wireless (usually) sufficent for VOIP? 2. Which VOIP provider do I NOT go with. I understand one of them Vonage or Skype filed for bancruptcy. 3. Is there any thing else I need to be aware of? Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
They've been saying here Vonage is out. -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Thanks! That is what I thought I was hearing but I could not remember for sure. Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Thomas Haws [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 8:41:31 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? They've been saying here Vonage is out. -- Tom Haws 480-201-5476 Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Ok, Here are some considerations: Since you are 2nd in line from the actual connection, there is very little you can do in terms of QoS. If you attach a wireless router to the connection (such as a Linksys W54G and such varients) make sure you at least turn on QoS for the connections to the inlaws equipment so their computer(s) and ethernet devices do not create issues for the phone. However, the inlaws are still subject to both the neighbor's network traffic and traffic shaping (or lack of it), and the ISP's traffic shaping or lack of it. Since you want to play with wireless and cable, then you have latency issues that will come into play. Typically, most cell phones will have up to 200+ ms of latency built into the network. Hughes and WildBlue (Satellite) have 500+ ms before any extra hops are considered. If the inlaws are not used to time lag in their phone conversations (where you talk over people because they don't "respond" fast enough to one side of a conversation), then they will need to get used to this, or stick with analog. Cable connections vary with the active IP load on the branch, so typically, you can expect the worst throughput between times like 5p-9p and 7a-9a during the day. If you want to see what the connection is actually doing, you can use a sight like DSLSpeed to make some rough measurements of how the line is performing at that moment. Cable companies tend to watch their DHCP connections rather closely, so unless the neighbor's agreement allows for multiple IP connections, there may be an interruption in service to deal with at some point. YMMV with the company involved. Comcast is typically very aggressive in some locations (like CO), while others don't pursue it, as the problem is not enough to spend the money to chase. Just something to be aware of. As for faxing, there are very few companies that are willing to support T.38. They do allow it but it's mostly your on your own. ATT does offer fax support, but I would look at E-911 service support in your area very carefully before wanting to sign up, as ATT has disowned a very large number of their VoIP customers without warning and so much as a "we're sorry", because E-911 support in their area(s) are poor to non-existent. I would start looking at people like Sun Rocket, Packet 8, Broadsoft, Global Linx, or QWEST. ATT, with the above caveat, is also an option. Some of these providers have hardware they allow on their network and it comes as part of the package. You can also look at hardware providers like Grandstream, Linksys, Netgear, and DLink that have everything from ATA's for analog phones, to full on VoIP phones with business support. When you sign up with an ISP, the best audio quality is with G.711 codec, but that requires at least 80Kbs in both directions to provide MOS scores in the 4's. Any of the other codecs, such as G.726/723/729 use various compression factors to conserve bandwith. The price you pay is a lower quality audio signal, ringing, echo, and other artifacts in the signal - but given the setup you have described, you are subject to that anyway. BTW, no one, not even the RBOC's will guarantee the connection or quality of the call over VoIP, so anyone who says that Company XXX does, I would be suspect of. The companies I've mentioned are good starting points, and there are others you can look to if these don't work for you. Hope that helps. ...Paul Big Daddy wrote: SEE ANSWERS BELOW Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Paul Penrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 8:39:42 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? I need to ask you a few questions before I can give you some advice that would help and not be a hindrance: 1. Since the wireless connection is shared, the throughput is most important. How fast is the connection to the ISP going in both directions? UNKNOWN 2. If you know it, who is the ISP providing the connection? UNKNOWN 3. What kind of connection is it from the neighbor to the ISP? CABLE (I THINK) 4. Does your brother's in-laws have any special telephone needs such as fax, or special features desired? POSSIBLY FAX 5. Is it more important to have good quality audio and service than price? YES 6. Do they call outside the US? NO I know it's a lot of questions to start with, but there are a plethora providers out there far better than either Skype or Vonage, so I want to direct you towards several that might work. Big Daddy wrote: Scenerio: My brother's in-laws have a trailer in sanford. I will be setting them up withwireless internet access this week (shared from a neighbor, with permission). Theydo not have a phone line andneed a telephone so therfore want me to set them up with VOIP. I will need to have the
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
That's some grat information. - Thanks Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Paul Penrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 10:17:02 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? Ok, Here are some considerations: Since you are 2nd in line from the actual connection, there is very little you can do in terms of QoS. If you attach a wireless router to the connection (such as a Linksys W54G and such varients) make sure you at least turn on QoS for the connections to the inlaws equipment so their computer(s) and ethernet devices do not create issues for the phone. However, the inlaws are still subject to both the neighbor's network traffic and traffic shaping (or lack of it), and the ISP's traffic shaping or lack of it. Since you want to play with wireless and cable, then you have latency issues that will come into play. Typically, most cell phones will have up to 200+ ms of latency built into the network. Hughes and WildBlue (Satellite) have 500+ ms before any extra hops are considered. If the inlaws are not used to time lag in their phone conversations (where you talk over people because they don't respond fast enough to one side of a conversation), then they will need to get used to this, or stick with analog. Cable connections vary with the active IP load on the branch, so typically, you can expect the worst throughput between times like 5p-9p and 7a-9a during the day. If you want to see what the connection is actually doing, you can use a sight like DSLSpeed to make some rough measurements of how the line is performing at that moment. Cable companies tend to watch their DHCP connections rather closely, so unless the neighbor's agreement allows for multiple IP connections, there may be an interruption in service to deal with at some point. YMMV with the company involved. Comcast is typically very aggressive in some locations (like CO), while others don't pursue it, as the problem is not enough to spend the money to chase. Just something to be aware of. As for faxing, there are very few companies that are willing to support T.38. They do allow it but it's mostly your on your own. ATT does offer fax support, but I would look at E-911 service support in your area very carefully before wanting to sign up, as ATT has disowned a very large number of their VoIP customers without warning and so much as a we're sorry, because E-911 support in their area(s) are poor to non-existent. I would start looking at people like Sun Rocket, Packet 8, Broadsoft, Global Linx, or QWEST. ATT, with the above caveat, is also an option. Some of these providers have hardware they allow on their network and it comes as part of the package. You can also look at hardware providers like Grandstream, Linksys, Netgear, and DLink that have everything from ATA's for analog phones, to full on VoIP phones with business support. When you sign up with an ISP, the best audio quality is with G.711 codec, but that requires at least 80Kbs in both directions to provide MOS scores in the 4's. Any of the other codecs, such as G.726/723/729 use various compression factors to conserve bandwith. The price you pay is a lower quality audio signal, ringing, echo, and other artifacts in the signal - but given the setup you have described, you are subject to that anyway. BTW, no one, not even the RBOC's will guarantee the connection or quality of the call over VoIP, so anyone who says that Company XXX does, I would be suspect of. The companies I've mentioned are good starting points, and there are others you can look to if these don't work for you. Hope that helps. ...Paul Big Daddy wrote: SEE ANSWERS BELOW Big Daddy 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Paul Penrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 8:39:42 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? I need to ask you a few questions before I can give you some advice that would help and not be a hindrance: 1. Since the wireless connection is shared, the throughput is most important. How fast is the connection to the ISP going in both directions? UNKNOWN 2. If you know it, who is the ISP providing the connection? UNKNOWN 3. What kind of connection is it from the neighbor to the ISP? CABLE (I THINK) 4. Does your brother's in-laws have any special telephone needs such as fax, or special features desired? POSSIBLY FAX 5. Is it more important to have good quality audio and service than price? YES 6. Do they call outside the US? NO I know it's a lot of questions to start with, but there are a plethora providers out there far better than either Skype or Vonage, so I want to direct you towards several that might work. Big Daddy wrote: Scenerio
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
Could you define latency? On 5/7/07, Paul Penrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here are some considerations: Since you are 2nd in line from the actual connection, there is very little you can do in terms of QoS. If you attach a wireless router to the connection (such as a Linksys W54G and such varients) make sure you at least turn on QoS for the connections to the inlaws equipment so their computer(s) and ethernet devices do not create issues for the phone. However, the inlaws are still subject to both the neighbor's network traffic and traffic shaping (or lack of it), and the ISP's traffic shaping or lack of it. Since you want to play with wireless and cable, then you have latency issues that will come into play. Typically, most cell phones will have up to 200+ ms of latency built into the network. Hughes and WildBlue (Satellite) have 500+ ms before any extra hops are considered. If the inlaws are not used to time lag in their phone conversations (where you talk over people because they don't respond fast enough to one side of a conversation), then they will need to get used to this, or stick with analog. Cable connections vary with the active IP load on the branch, so typically, you can expect the worst throughput between times like 5p-9p and 7a-9a during the day. If you want to see what the connection is actually doing, you can use a sight like DSLSpeed to make some rough measurements of how the line is performing at that moment. Cable companies tend to watch their DHCP connections rather closely, so unless the neighbor's agreement allows for multiple IP connections, there may be an interruption in service to deal with at some point. YMMV with the company involved. Comcast is typically very aggressive in some locations (like CO), while others don't pursue it, as the problem is not enough to spend the money to chase. Just something to be aware of. As for faxing, there are very few companies that are willing to support T.38. They do allow it but it's mostly your on your own. ATT does offer fax support, but I would look at E-911 service support in your area very carefully before wanting to sign up, as ATT has disowned a very large number of their VoIP customers without warning and so much as a we're sorry, because E-911 support in their area(s) are poor to non-existent. I would start looking at people like Sun Rocket, Packet 8, Broadsoft, Global Linx, or QWEST. ATT, with the above caveat, is also an option. Some of these providers have hardware they allow on their network and it comes as part of the package. You can also look at hardware providers like Grandstream, Linksys, Netgear, and DLink that have everything from ATA's for analog phones, to full on VoIP phones with business support. When you sign up with an ISP, the best audio quality is with G.711 codec, but that requires at least 80Kbs in both directions to provide MOS scores in the 4's. Any of the other codecs, such as G.726/723/729 use various compression factors to conserve bandwith. The price you pay is a lower quality audio signal, ringing, echo, and other artifacts in the signal - but given the setup you have described, you are subject to that anyway. BTW, no one, not even the RBOC's will guarantee the connection or quality of the call over VoIP, so anyone who says that Company XXX does, I would be suspect of. The companies I've mentioned are good starting points, and there are others you can look to if these don't work for you. Hope that helps. ...Paul Big Daddy wrote: SEE ANSWERS BELOW *Big Daddy* 4796 S. Linoln Ridge Drive Tucson, AZ 85730 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: Paul Penrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.orgldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 8:39:42 AM Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one? I need to ask you a few questions before I can give you some advice that would help and not be a hindrance: 1. Since the wireless connection is shared, the throughput is most important. How fast is the connection to the ISP going in both directions? UNKNOWN 2. If you know it, who is the ISP providing the connection? UNKNOWN 3. What kind of connection is it from the neighbor to the ISP? CABLE (I THINK) 4. Does your brother's in-laws have any special telephone needs such as fax, or special features desired? POSSIBLY FAX 5. Is it more important to have good quality audio and service than price? YES 6. Do they call outside the US? NO I know it's a lot of questions to start with, but there are a plethora providers out there far better than either Skype or Vonage, so I want to direct you towards several that might work. Big Daddy wrote: Scenerio: My brother's in-laws have a trailer in sanford. I will be setting them up with wireless internet access this week (shared from a neighbor, with permission). They do not have a phone line and need a telephone so therfore want me to set them up with VOIP. I
Re: [Ldsoss] VOIP Service providers ... which one?
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/l/latency.html ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
