Re: [leaf-devel] Project description

2008-03-05 Thread Lynn Avants
On Wednesday 05 March 2008 03:18 pm, Mats Erik Andersson wrote:
[...]
>   *) A recursive description may be intellectually pleasing, but
>  is never estetically pleasing, and anyway the borderline
>  to ridicule is not constant among people encountering the
>  particular notion. The need to explain GNU again and again
>  among various authors and writers is a particular bad example!
[...]

We should comply within satisfaction of any GPL'ed code.
But no LEAF variant complies with GNU.
I would not suggest any attempt down the GNU road.
-- 
~Lynn Avants
Linux Embedded Firewall Project developer
http://leaf.sourceforge.net

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Re: [leaf-devel] Project description

2008-03-05 Thread Martin Hejl
Hi all,

KP Kirchdoerfer wrote:
> I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to 
> enhance/change it:
> 
> "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. 
> Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet 
> border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage 
> (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes."
> 
> (characters unkown)
whatever the latest proposal might be, I'll just quote that one, since
it doesn't matter for the point I want to make. Ultimately, I don't care
what the project description is (well, within reason) - in the end, no
matter how finely crafted our project description is (possibly the
result of months of discussion), it will probably not make a huge
difference (IMHO). Having a good product, with a strong community
(developers, people writing docs, people helping others on the lists)
would make a difference (again IMHO).

But anyway, my concern with the proposed description is this: what's so
special about a NAS or a PBX that it needs to be mentioned in the
project description? VOIP was a hot topic a short while ago, maybe
that's why it's "needed" from a marketing point of view, but to me it's
just one of the many things that a LEAF box can be used for (and IMHO,
one it's not terribly suited for, since a full blown PBX needs storage,
for voice mail and the like, which is an add-on, but not a core feature
for LEAF. Same goes for SAN/NAS, I guess - it's possible, but a "real"
SAN/NAS box should have all kinds of RAID drivers available, up to date
networking protocols, plenty of RAM (why waste precious RAM that could
be used for caching on a ramdisk?)). Anyway, just because it can be
done, I don't think it should be part of the project description. We
have a build environment available, so anything that's theoretically
possible can be done, if somebody is willing to invest the energy to do
it. I've used my leaf box for "war-driving" (well, the friendly kind,
not trying to break into other networks, just to find out who's
interfering with my WLAN). It works nicely for that; it also works
nicely with a WISPY Spectrum Analyzer. Should we add that to our project
description as well? (A soekris or WRAP box will work nicely running on
battery, and it will obviously run on many laptops - so maybe we should
even add "mobile appliance" to the description as well?). Or maybe even
something to do with "Green IT" (seems to be the hot topic at the CeBit
right now), since it will run just fine on computers that don't require
a 300+W power supply?

In short - I feel that the core strengths of LEAF (Bering uClibc and its
yet unnamed successor in particular) are network related stuff
(firewall, router, AP). It can do many other things as well, but I think
those things are already covered with the "Although it can be used in
other ways; it's primarily used as..." part of our current description.
If a change is required, maybe it could be as simple as changing that
part to "Although it can be used in many other ways; it's primarily used
as..."

Just my 2 cents - as I said, I don't really care one way or the other, I
just wanted to address what seems to be "feature creep" in the project
description to me, when I read the current proposals. And I guess I had
to voice my opinion, given the fact that kp used the "speak up, or I'll
assume you agree" approach.

Martin


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Re: [leaf-devel] Project description

2008-03-05 Thread Mats Erik Andersson
Hello folks,

two short observations:

  *) By eliminating the abreviations " (WAP)", " (NAS/SAN)" sixteen
 characters can be put to better use, since these are so well
 known. I see more merit in keeping PBX since it is not built
 from initials only.

  *) A recursive description may be intellectually pleasing, but
 is never estetically pleasing, and anyway the borderline
 to ridicule is not constant among people encountering the
 particular notion. The need to explain GNU again and again
 among various authors and writers is a particular bad example!
 
Disagreement is acknowledged!

Regards 

Mats E A

tis 2008-03-04 klockan 11:55 -0800 skrev Victor McAllister:
> Mike Noyes wrote:
> .
> >>>
> >>> "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. 
> >>> Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, 
> >>> Internet 
> >>> border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage 
> >>> (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes."
> >>>   
> >
> > 
> > https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/editgroupinfo.php?group_id=13751
> > The description for your project is limited to 254 characters.
> >
> >
> >   
> >> Everyone,
> >> I'd like to see some recursion in the description or name like GNU, but
> >> that may not be possible.
> >>
> >> Project Name:  Linux Embedded Appliance Framework
> >> 
> >
> > Everyone,
> > The description below isn't short enough. I'm open to suggestions.
> >
> >   
> >> Description:
> >> LEAF is a embedded appliance framework delivered in branches.
> >> Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following
> >> appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border
> >> router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached
> >> storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry
> >> box.
> >> 
> This is 249 characters long
> 
> LEAF (Linux Embedded Appliance Framework) is targeted at 
> appliance-oriented tasks such as: LAN/WAN router/ border router/ 
> firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached storage 
> (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry box.
> 



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