Re: Corbels

[Ccm Ccm]

Richard, mating round semi circles, or a pendulum router both work very
well provided your corbel has a true radius
i have used both methods successfully

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Richard Ellis 
wrote:

> Bill
> Thinking outside the box-- Why not a round table i:e an upside down
> bridge shape, two semi circles and a piece of thin ply/ hardboard to fit
> the shape op the concave of the corbel.Or vice versa
> Next thought-- a pendulum mounted router . What do you think. It
> would be more adjustable
> Richard
>
> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 4:24:21 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you can use a router table to do the job the bit would be shorter
>> and cheaper
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mill
>> s...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Ellis
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, 13 February 2017 9:53 PM
>> *To:* Legacy Ornamental Mills
>> *Subject:* Re: Corbels
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Curt and Bill,
>>
>> Bill that is the way I intend to do it, however the cost of that cutter
>> rules it out--- just not sensible for two corbels.
>>
>> I may finish up doing it in a stack system using a half round cutter on
>> the individual sections.
>>
>> May also have to resort to hand gouge  and mallet   But I think the
>> rotary table may be used. If I can find the right cutter without spending
>> too much.
>>
>> I chap over here has made a router mill, don't know if you can view it
>> over there  http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/making-spiral-legs-on-th
>> e-cheap-t101497.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Made mostly out of ply
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:26:51 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:
>>
>> I agree curt, cut the shape out on the bandsaw and finish it on the
>> spindle sander then mount it laying sideways on a table on the legacy and
>> rout the grooves using this bit
>>
>> https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=230197
>>
>>
>>
>> that’s how I would attempt it
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mill
>> s...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *CURTIS GEORGE
>> *Sent:* Monday, 13 February 2017 9:56 AM
>> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Corbels
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Again Richard
>>
>> another way of making a corbel is to use the Legacy and its template
>> follower to cut the design out.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just thought of another way.  Use a band-saw. scroll saw, or coping
>> saw, or even a jig saw, and cut out your basic shape out of wood, and then
>> use the Legacy as an over-head router system. this way you could use
>> templates, and or just your router bits with bearings, to cut and finish
>> /shape your corbels.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Luck on this project.
>>
>> talk to you more latter.
>>
>>
>>
>> C.A.G.
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/13940 - Release Date: 02/12/17
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou
>> p/legacy-ornamental-mills.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>> --
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>> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
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>> p/legacy-ornamental-mills.
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>>
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RE: Accurate setup

[Bill Bulkeley]

Setting a mill parallel cut a set of four 2x4 blocks  all exactly the same 
length cut them to the length of the distance between the top of the inner 
rails to the top of the outer rails place them on the inner rails up against 
the outer rails

Then you can feel the top of the block and the top face of the rail to get all 
4 ends level. Nice and easy no measuring for fine adjustments use feeler gauges 
. i have even laid a metal strait edge across the rails over the blocks so i 
have both hands free to adjust the rails.

When turning material round with the bottoming bit make sure it is off centre 
by at least 1/8 inch and turn the material so that it turns up under the cutter 
not over down to the cutter and the material needs to rotate much faster than 
the saddle is travelling along the rails 

Slow feed faster rotating

 

Bill

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Riggen
Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2017 9:29 AM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
Cc: curtgeo...@wowway.com
Subject: Re: Accurate setup

 

Curist,

 

Thank you for the info.  I checked each corner and found the distance from the 
top of the lower rails to the top of the upper rails to be all different. So, I 
did what you suggested with the adjustable square and tried again.  The results 
are quite a bit better but not what I think they should be.  Measuring the 
cylinder at each end (it is 16" long)shows a taper.  At the tail end the 
diameter is 2.908' and at the head end the diameter is 2.917'.  I checked each 
corner again, this time with calipers. The value at each corner is as follows:  
rear tail - 1.351; front tail - 1.341; rear head - 1.371; front head - 1.362.

 

Am I expecting too much or not?

 

Do you and all the other users go through this process each time you change the 
height or tilt of the lower rails? Also, I guess I should ignore the little 
step shaped openings in each of the legs that supposedly allow one to 
"accurately" set the rail height.

 

Thank you for your help,

 

 


On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 7:34:39 AM UTC-6, Curtis wrote:

Woops! wrong link. try this.

 

C.A.G.  

 

 


  _  


From: "CURTIS GEORGE"  >
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31:30 AM
Subject: Re: Accurate setup

 

Hello Jim.

How  small is the Error? and in what way?? do you mean that the 
cylinder/spindle tappers is some way form one side to the other? or there is 
tare out and the shape is not round?

 

There is a small learning curve that needs to be understood when using the 
Legacy, ( Most people just call it the trial and error method.) 

I would start with making sure all four corners are on the same plane, I would 
use an adjustable square and check and make sure the rails are the same height 
form each-other . (this is from the top rail the the lower one.) or if making a 
tapper the two ends are at least the same as each-other.

When cutting make sure your router is 1/4"-1/2" off-set from the center-line of 
the work.  its not as critical but there is an article called clime milling VS 
undercutting. (See attachment.)

 

You may also need to make sure that there is no slop in your slides, your 
machine must move freely but if your slides have some play in them, then the 
slop/play can be transferred into your work. If there is any movement, 
(UP/Down, or side to side) you will need to adjust your slides to remove any 
play.

 

I need to run now.

PLAY with your machine and get to know it better.  I rec emend to use green 
wood or free wood for play, (the fire wood pile or scrap wood) Dont spend much 
money for wood that most likely will not turn out when trying new things.

 

I also like to tell everyone,

Lastly one last note.  Never tell anyone what you are making until its done... 
That way the 4 poster bed, that you planed to make, that turned into a pencil 
box, will not look so bad.;-)

 

Good luck.

And have a GREAT DAY.

 

C.A.G.

 


  _  


From: "Jim Riggen"  >
To: "Legacy Ornamental Mills"  >
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 10:46:48 PM
Subject: Accurate setup

 

I tried my first effort tonight. I made a round piece of wood! One problem 
though. I used a #2704 bit hoping to get a smooth cylinder. Alas, I did not. I 
think the router and wood are not perpendicular. The error is quite small. How 
do I correct this?

 

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Re: Accurate setup

[Jim Riggen]

Curist,

Thank you for the info.  I checked each corner and found the distance from 
the top of the lower rails to the top of the upper rails to be all 
different. So, I did what you suggested with the adjustable square and 
tried again.  The results are quite a bit better but not what I think they 
should be.  Measuring the cylinder at each end (it is 16" long)shows a 
taper.  At the tail end the diameter is 2.908' and at the head end the 
diameter is 2.917'.  I checked each corner again, this time with calipers. 
The value at each corner is as follows:  rear tail - 1.351; front tail - 
1.341; rear head - 1.371; front head - 1.362.

Am I expecting too much or not?

Do you and all the other users go through this process each time you change 
the height or tilt of the lower rails? Also, I guess I should ignore the 
little step shaped openings in each of the legs that supposedly allow one 
to "accurately" set the rail height.

Thank you for your help,



On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 7:34:39 AM UTC-6, Curtis wrote:

> Woops! wrong link. try this.
>
> C.A.G.
>
> --
> *From: *"CURTIS GEORGE" >
> *To: *legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:31:30 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Accurate setup
>
> Hello Jim.
> How  small is the Error? and in what way?? do you mean that the 
> cylinder/spindle tappers is some way form one side to the other? or there 
> is tare out and the shape is not round?
>
> There is a small learning curve that needs to be understood when using the 
> Legacy, ( Most people just call it the trial and error method.) 
> I would start with making sure all four corners are on the same plane, I 
> would use an adjustable square and check and make sure the rails are the 
> same height form each-other . (this is from the top rail the the lower 
> one.) or if making a tapper the two ends are at least the same as 
> each-other.
> When cutting make sure your router is 1/4"-1/2" off-set from the 
> center-line of the work.  its not as critical but there is an article 
> called clime milling VS undercutting. (See attachment.)
>
> You may also need to make sure that there is no slop in your slides, your 
> machine must move freely but if your slides have some play in them, then 
> the slop/play can be transferred into your work. If there is any movement, 
> (UP/Down, or side to side) you will need to adjust your slides to remove 
> any play.
>
> I need to run now.
> PLAY with your machine and get to know it better.  I rec emend to use 
> green wood or free wood for play, (the fire wood pile or scrap wood) Dont 
> spend much money for wood that most likely will not turn out when trying 
> new things.
>
> I also like to tell everyone,
> Lastly one last note.  Never tell anyone what you are making until its 
> done... That way the 4 poster bed, that you planed to make, that turned 
> into a pencil box, will not look so bad.;-)
>
> Good luck.
> And have a GREAT DAY.
>
> C.A.G.
>
> --
> *From: *"Jim Riggen" >
> *To: *"Legacy Ornamental Mills"  >
> *Sent: *Monday, February 13, 2017 10:46:48 PM
> *Subject: *Accurate setup
>
> I tried my first effort tonight. I made a round piece of wood! One problem 
> though. I used a #2704 bit hoping to get a smooth cylinder. Alas, I did 
> not. I think the router and wood are not perpendicular. The error is quite 
> small. How do I correct this?
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
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> .
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> .
> Visit this group at 
> https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
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>
>

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RE: Corbels

[Bill Bulkeley]

Sound like you’re on to something if it works take pics for us

 

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2017 8:25 PM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
Subject: Re: Corbels

 

Bill

Thinking outside the box-- Why not a round table i:e an upside down bridge 
shape, two semi circles and a piece of thin ply/ hardboard to fit the shape op 
the concave of the corbel.Or vice versa 

Next thought-- a pendulum mounted router . What do you think. It would 
be more adjustable

Richard

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 4:24:21 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:

Perhaps you can use a router table to do the job the bit would be shorter and 
cheaper

 

Bill

 

From: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com   
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com  ] On Behalf Of 
Richard Ellis
Sent: Monday, 13 February 2017 9:53 PM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
Subject: Re: Corbels

 

Thanks Curt and Bill,

Bill that is the way I intend to do it, however the cost of that cutter rules 
it out--- just not sensible for two corbels.

I may finish up doing it in a stack system using a half round cutter on the 
individual sections.

May also have to resort to hand gouge  and mallet   But I think the rotary 
table may be used. If I can find the right cutter without spending too much.

I chap over here has made a router mill, don't know if you can view it over 
there  
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/making-spiral-legs-on-the-cheap-t101497.html

 

Made mostly out of ply

Richard

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:26:51 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:

I agree curt, cut the shape out on the bandsaw and finish it on the spindle 
sander then mount it laying sideways on a table on the legacy and rout the 
grooves using this bit

https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=230197

 

that’s how I would attempt it

 

Bill

 

 

 

From: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CURTIS GEORGE
Sent: Monday, 13 February 2017 9:56 AM
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Corbels

 

Hello Again Richard

another way of making a corbel is to use the Legacy and its template follower 
to cut the design out.

 

I just thought of another way.  Use a band-saw. scroll saw, or coping saw, or 
even a jig saw, and cut out your basic shape out of wood, and then use the 
Legacy as an over-head router system. this way you could use templates, and or 
just your router bits with bearings, to cut and finish /shape your corbels.

 

Good Luck on this project.

talk to you more latter.

 

C.A.G.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com  
Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/13940 - Release Date: 02/12/17

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Re: Accurate setup

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Hello Jim. 
How small is the Error? and in what way?? do you mean that the cylinder/spindle 
tappers is some way form one side to the other? or there is tare out and the 
shape is not round? 

There is a small learning curve that needs to be understood when using the 
Legacy, ( Most people just call it the trial and error method.) 
I would start with making sure all four corners are on the same plane, I would 
use an adjustable square and check and make sure the rails are the same height 
form each-other . (this is from the top rail the the lower one.) or if making a 
tapper the two ends are at least the same as each-other. 
When cutting make sure your router is 1/4"-1/2" off-set from the center-line of 
the work. its not as critical but there is an article called clime milling VS 
undercutting. (See attachment.) 

You may also need to make sure that there is no slop in your slides, your 
machine must move freely but if your slides have some play in them, then the 
slop/play can be transferred into your work. If there is any movement, 
(UP/Down, or side to side) you will need to adjust your slides to remove any 
play. 

I need to run now. 
PLAY with your machine and get to know it better. I rec emend to use green wood 
or free wood for play, (the fire wood pile or scrap wood) Dont spend much money 
for wood that most likely will not turn out when trying new things. 

I also like to tell everyone, 
Lastly one last note. Never tell anyone what you are making until its done... 
That way the 4 poster bed, that you planed to make, that turned into a pencil 
box, will not look so bad. ;-) 

Good luck. 
And have a GREAT DAY. 

C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "Jim Riggen"  
To: "Legacy Ornamental Mills"  
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 10:46:48 PM 
Subject: Accurate setup 

I tried my first effort tonight. I made a round piece of wood! One problem 
though. I used a #2704 bit hoping to get a smooth cylinder. Alas, I did not. I 
think the router and wood are not perpendicular. The error is quite small. How 
do I correct this? 

-- 
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--- Begin Message ---
  Up Cut vs. Down Cut Router Bits
  Choosing the right one
  Text & Photos by Tom Hintz
  Choosing between up and down cut router bits is one of many things in 
woodworking that can be frustrating until the reasoning behind the design 
difference is understood a little better. The number of email questions on this 
subject instigated this story.

  The Difference
  Though the flutes run in opposite directions, telling an up cut from a 
down cut bit can be difficult if you cannot imagine their rotation in the 
router. Though a router always turns in the same direction, from the operators 
perspective, that rotation appears to reverse depending on if the router is bit 
down in the common hand-held mode or bit up, as when mounted in a router table.

  With the bit down, the rotation is clockwise. That means the side of the 
bit farthest from the operator is turning left to right, the near side right to 
left. This is very important for feed direction, as we always want the cutting 
edges turning against the feed direction, not with it.

   
The down cut bit (left) leaves very clean edges while the up cut 
version (right) is far better at evacuating chips but that action can fray the 
edges of the cut to some degree.
Click image to enlarge 
  When the router is oriented with the bit up, as when mounted in a router 
table, the side of the bit closest to the operator is turning left to right and 
the back side right to left. Because the wood is fed against the rotation of 
the cutting edges, we almost always work against the front side of the bit.

  If the wood is fed into a router bit on the wrong side, the feed 
direction matches the bits rotation, making a dangerous kick out all but 
certain. Feeding the wood with rather than against bit rotation allows the 
cutting edges to become highly efficient feed dogs that grab the wood, 
accelerate it and shoot it off the table at 

Re: Corbels

[Richard Ellis]

Bill
Thinking outside the box-- Why not a round table i:e an upside down 
bridge shape, two semi circles and a piece of thin ply/ hardboard to fit 
the shape op the concave of the corbel.Or vice versa 
Next thought-- a pendulum mounted router . What do you think. It 
would be more adjustable
Richard

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 4:24:21 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:
>
> Perhaps you can use a router table to do the job the bit would be shorter 
> and cheaper
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
> *From:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of 
> *Richard 
> Ellis
> *Sent:* Monday, 13 February 2017 9:53 PM
> *To:* Legacy Ornamental Mills
> *Subject:* Re: Corbels
>
>  
>
> Thanks Curt and Bill,
>
> Bill that is the way I intend to do it, however the cost of that cutter 
> rules it out--- just not sensible for two corbels.
>
> I may finish up doing it in a stack system using a half round cutter on 
> the individual sections.
>
> May also have to resort to hand gouge  and mallet   But I think the rotary 
> table may be used. If I can find the right cutter without spending too much.
>
> I chap over here has made a router mill, don't know if you can view it 
> over there  
> http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/making-spiral-legs-on-the-cheap-t101497.html
>
>  
>
> Made mostly out of ply
>
> Richard
>
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:26:51 PM UTC, aussiman wrote:
>
> I agree curt, cut the shape out on the bandsaw and finish it on the 
> spindle sander then mount it laying sideways on a table on the legacy and 
> rout the grooves using this bit
>
> https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=230197
>
>  
>
> that’s how I would attempt it
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *CURTIS GEORGE
> *Sent:* Monday, 13 February 2017 9:56 AM
> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Corbels
>
>  
>
> Hello Again Richard
>
> another way of making a corbel is to use the Legacy and its template 
> follower to cut the design out.
>
>  
>
> I just thought of another way.  Use a band-saw. scroll saw, or coping saw, 
> or even a jig saw, and cut out your basic shape out of wood, and then use 
> the Legacy as an over-head router system. this way you could use templates, 
> and or just your router bits with bearings, to cut and finish /shape your 
> corbels.
>
>  
>
> Good Luck on this project.
>
> talk to you more latter.
>
>  
>
> C.A.G.
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/13940 - Release Date: 02/12/17
>
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