Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[MWF]

Hello Michael,I acquired an old chest of drawers that we were able to somewhat determine its age because of some of the construction characteristics it had.  One was the large "flat" panels that made up the back of the unit and some of the drawer bottoms.  They had the cutter markings - left by the Daniels' Planer.  (The Planer was somewhat like a giant fly cutter".  Interesting (ingenious) device.Thanks for sharing the image.Mac-Original Message-
From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mar 9, 2018 12:45 AM
To: "legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com" <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy

MichaelI don't want to change the topic. (but Perhaps just as a side note.)  The Saw Stop really works?  I've heard honor story's of ruining  both blades and machine parts, by mistakes. but no first hand info. on this safety equipment really working as it should.Now that Helical jointer (Felder/Hammer)  is one NEAT Machine. I have seen that one before. (but never used one my self.) Neat toys.../ machines.I was at a museum last week,  The quote on the bottom of this... pretty much sums up my views of wood working. ;-)  .Have a good night.C.A.G. On Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:51 AM, Michael Kratky <krat...@roadrunner.com> wrote:   Considered the Felder 5 in one combination machine a few years back as my shop space has long been outgrown; impressive machine but the saw arbor is 30mm and it doesn’t take a dado set I opted instead for a Saw Stop which twice since has saved my fingers. Felder/Hammer does make a 12”-16” helical jointer-planer combo that I’m in the market for.Michael K  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 3:04 PMTo: Legacy Ornamental MillsSubject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy  Mac, thanks for thinking of sending me a reference...I have seen the felder equipment and it is very impressive... but in a multi-person setting, multi machines are not the way to go, in my opinion...switching from one set up to another, and perhaps needing that set for the entire day, thus not allowing the machine's other capabilities to be used disrupts a shop's work flow... in a one or two man shop though, it is an ideal choice... and it would have been a welcome addition in my home woodworking shop, but I do not have any where near the space needed for that size machine... I like smaller, one operation machinery...table saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, etc., etc plus, that price is not in my budget... but it does seem reasonable... certainly keep me in mind for other equipment you might come across, especially if it is of a somewhat unusual nature... again, thanks...joe... p.s. what did the machine sell for? 






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: milling work, not on a legacy

[Michael Kratky]

Considered the Felder 5 in one combination machine a few years back as my shop 
space has long been outgrown; impressive machine but the saw arbor is 30mm and 
it doesn’t take a dado set I opted instead for a Saw Stop which twice since has 
saved my fingers. 

Felder/Hammer does make a 12”-16” helical jointer-planer combo that I’m in the 
market for.

Michael K

 

From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 3:04 PM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
Subject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy

 

Mac, thanks for thinking of sending me a reference...I have seen the felder 
equipment and it is very impressive... but in a multi-person setting, multi 
machines are not the way to go, in my opinion...switching from one set up to 
another, and perhaps needing that set for the entire day, thus not allowing the 
machine's other capabilities to be used disrupts a shop's work flow... in a one 
or two man shop though, it is an ideal choice... and it would have been a 
welcome addition in my home woodworking shop, but I do not have any where near 
the space needed for that size machine... I like smaller, one operation 
machinery...table saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, etc., etc plus, that price 
is not in my budget... but it does seem reasonable... certainly keep me in mind 
for other equipment you might come across, especially if it is of a somewhat 
unusual nature... again, thanks...joe... p.s. what did the machine sell for? 

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[MWF]

Hi Joe,I believe he let it go for ~$6,800!  So the guy in Calif. essentially spent $8,800 - delivered to his shop in CA from VA.Like I said earlier - it was in as good as or BETTER than NEW!Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mar 7, 2018 3:03 PM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy

Mac, thanks for thinking of sending me a reference...I have seen the felder equipment and it is very impressive... but in a multi-person setting, multi machines are not the way to go, in my opinion...switching from one set up to another, and perhaps needing that set for the entire day, thus not allowing the machine's other capabilities to be used disrupts a shop's work flow... in a one or two man shop though, it is an ideal choice... and it would have been a welcome addition in my home woodworking shop, but I do not have any where near the space needed for that size machine... I like smaller, one operation machinery...table saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, etc., etc plus, that price is not in my budget... but it does seem reasonable... certainly keep me in mind for other equipment you might come across, especially if it is of a somewhat unusual nature... again, thanks...joe... p.s. what did the machine sell for? 






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Mac, thanks for thinking of sending me a reference...I have seen the felder 
equipment and it is very impressive... but in a multi-person setting, multi 
machines are not the way to go, in my opinion...switching from one set up 
to another, and perhaps needing that set for the entire day, thus not 
allowing the machine's other capabilities to be used disrupts a shop's work 
flow... in a one or two man shop though, it is an ideal choice... and it 
would have been a welcome addition in my home woodworking shop, but I do 
not have any where near the space needed for that size machine... I like 
smaller, one operation machinery...table saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, 
etc., etc plus, that price is not in my budget... but it does seem 
reasonable... certainly keep me in mind for other equipment you might come 
across, especially if it is of a somewhat unusual nature... again, 
thanks...joe... p.s. what did the machine sell for? 


>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

Been there, done that, made the sparks.  LOL The thing to remember is to 
grind the profile the same angle as the holder will allow it to make 
contact with the wood.  Make a huge difference with deeper profiles.


Mike OK


On 3/7/2018 10:27 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote:
ok, here are some photos that will further show/explain what this type 
of milling is about... the first photo shows two samples of a 
particular drapery pole we make, along with the shaper knife used to 
make that cut...this design is difficult in that it is a small reed 
between two larger reeds...the center line of the cutting action is 
centered on the smaller reed, or the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position, 
depending on your perspective...but basically a side cutting action... 
we always seem to have to do a bit of sanding when making this 
particular cut... and doing the smaller one is very challenging, as it 
is only 1 1/2" in diameter... the other sample in the photo is 3" in 
diameter...the other three photos are a small selection of knife 
profiles we have accumulated over the years... some coming from old 
planer and jointer knives obtained at auctions... some from the knife 
sets sears used to sell...those I see at flea markets quite 
often...three knives per set, each set having it's own, different 
profile... one head(the larger) was to be used in a table saw and the 
other on a shaper... we once set the larger diameter head up into a 
table saw and when spinning, sounded like a jet taking off!...LOL!... 
that set up was quickly abandoned... talk about being dangerous!, that 
made me nervous!... a lot of people will have the opinion that this 
method of doing light, milling cuts is dangerous, but one thing to 
point out is safety in our shop is of the highest priority... I will 
certainly put safety above quality when we are working on a job, even 
if it means a piece goes out not up to being perfect... there is no 
job important enough to risk an injury... a lots of the knives from 
the sears sets we grind to whatever profile we might need to suit the 
job at hand...we certainly have enough blanks!...LOL!... any 
questions, please just ask... joe



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To post to this group, send email to 
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
.
Visit this group at 
https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy 
Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[MWF]

Joe,I wish I had thought to contact you earlier.  I have a friend that had a Felder Table Saw w/sliding table and a built-in Shaper spindle (I think it was about 10" - 12" long).  That machine was Tricked out!!  He is moving to Florida and downsized his tool "collection" - so sold the Felder.  That machine was probably one you could have used.That model Felder sells today for about $16,000+.  Bill kept his in "Better than new" condition.  He put it on CraigsList and a guy in California bought it.  After paying for it and the S (cost the buyer ~$2,000 - they used PODS) - he still came out WAY ahead vs buying new; especially in Californiacte - where the taxes would probably add another $1,000+ to the purchase, had he bought it new there.You could have driven 3 hours down to N. Virginia with your flatbed and saved a LOT of  - had you bought it.  Sorry I didn't think of you when he mentioned selling it.Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mar 7, 2018 12:55 PM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy

hi Mac!... in this type of setup, the rule "less is better" strongly applies... what happens here, in the spindle, is there is a centered bolt coming down from the top of the spindle... this bolt is tightened against the top of the cutting knife... then a lock nut on the bolt is tightened so the bolt will not loosen... but this is a contradiction, as the pressure of the bolt is a downward pressure onto the top of the knife, while the lock nut is pulling the bolt away from the top of the knife... there is a very careful balance here of just how tight to make the bolt(without damaging the knife) and how tight to make the lock nut... in your suggestion, you mention "other cutter slots", well, there are no other slots...there is just the one slot, which is about 4" tall, in the center of the spindle...now if you meant putting a cutter blank on top of the your cutting knife, then locking those two knives down as described above, then yes, you could do that...but then there is a greater risk of some slippage between the two knives and thus, maybe!, the knives coming loose and being thrown out of the spindle, which is the danger part here, obviously... and why this type of set up was discontinued many years ago... so, that is almost never done... but the mantra here is simple..." DON'T GET GREEDY!"... only use a single knife that will project a small amount... if you adhere to this, then there will not be a balance problem, and the danger factor is reduced greatly... remember, the spindle is 1" in diameter, so it has some "umph" to it... and when a bit more projection is needed, we switch to a 1 1/4" spindle... I have seen French spindles that were 2" and 3" in diameter!... of course, those were using knives that would project much more than simply a "kiss" cut... and the cutting knife would actually pass through the spindle and project out the other side and follow the  shape of the cutting profile, never to cut though, only to serve as a balance to the entire spindle...problem there was if the spindle was 3" in diameter, and the knife projected out 2"(on both sides of the spindle), that made the knife a total of 7" long!...spinning that set up at almost 15,000 RPM, sounded like a helicopter taking off!... and it felt like a fan was blowing air into your face!... very intimidating and not for the weak of heart!... as sometimes the knife would break... we never went near any of that... if we ever had to make a deep crown moulding, for example, we would just make the moulding up in pieces and then glue it together... in todays world, you can set up two knives into a specific cutter head and, using a profile grinding machine, grind both knives to the profile that is needed for the job... and each knife will actually do it's share of cutting the work piece, as the profile grinder is that accurate... and the edge of the knives have a corrugation on them(think finger joint) so they cannot slip out... this is commonly referred to as a "lock edge knife"... larger companies would have a profile grinder in house, but you could simply order what you need from specialty houses that provide this service on a per job basis... hope I have answered your question... joe






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hi Mac!... in this type of setup, the rule "less is better" strongly 
applies... what happens here, in the spindle, is there is a centered bolt 
coming down from the top of the spindle... this bolt is tightened against 
the top of the cutting knife... then a lock nut on the bolt is tightened so 
the bolt will not loosen... but this is a contradiction, 
as the pressure of the bolt is a downward pressure onto the top of the 
knife, while the lock nut is pulling the bolt away from the top of the 
knife... there is a very careful balance here of just how tight to make the 
bolt(without damaging the knife) and how tight to make the lock nut... in 
your suggestion, you mention "other cutter slots", well, there are no other 
slots...there is just the one slot, which is about 4" tall, in the center 
of the spindle...now if you meant putting a cutter blank on top of the your 
cutting knife, then locking those two knives down as described above, then 
yes, you could do that...but then there is a greater risk of some slippage 
between the two knives and thus, maybe!, the knives coming loose and being 
thrown out of the spindle, which is the danger part here, obviously... and 
why this type of set up was discontinued many years ago... so, that is 
almost never done... but the mantra here is simple..." DON'T GET 
GREEDY!"... only use a single knife that will project a small amount... if 
you adhere to this, then there will not be a balance problem, and the 
danger factor is reduced greatly... remember, the spindle is 1" in 
diameter, so it has some "umph" to it... and when a bit more projection is 
needed, we switch to a 1 1/4" spindle... I have seen French spindles that 
were 2" and 3" in diameter!... of course, those were using knives that 
would project much more than simply a "kiss" cut... and the cutting knife 
would actually pass through the spindle and project out the other side and 
follow the  shape of the cutting profile, never to cut though, only to 
serve as a balance to the entire spindle...problem there was if the spindle 
was 3" in diameter, and the knife projected out 2"(on both sides of the 
spindle), that made the knife a total of 7" long!...spinning that set up at 
almost 15,000 RPM, sounded like a helicopter taking off!... and it felt 
like a fan was blowing air into your face!... very intimidating and not for 
the weak of heart!... as sometimes the knife would break... we never went 
near any of that... if we ever had to make a deep crown moulding, for 
example, we would just make the moulding up in pieces and then glue it 
together... in todays world, you can set up two knives into a specific 
cutter head and, using a profile grinding machine, grind both knives to the 
profile that is needed for the job... and each knife will actually do it's 
share of cutting the work piece, as the profile grinder is that accurate... 
and the edge of the knives have a corrugation on them(think finger joint) 
so they cannot slip out... this is commonly referred to as a "lock edge 
knife"... larger companies would have a profile grinder in house, but you 
could simply order what you need from specialty houses that provide this 
service on a per job basis... hope I have answered your question... joe

>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[MWF]

Joe,Interesting - Thanks for sharing.  In order to somewhat keep things in balance when using only one cutter in the shaper head, have you thought about putting shorter "blank" cutters in the other cutter slots (assuming it has slots for 2-3 cutters).  These blanks would be short enough so that they do not make contact with the work piece.Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mar 7, 2018 11:27 AM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills <legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: milling work, not on a legacy

ok, here are some photos that will further show/explain what this type of milling is about... the first photo shows two samples of a particular drapery pole we make, along with the shaper knife used to make that cut...this design is difficult in that it is a small reed between two larger reeds...the center line of the cutting action is centered on the smaller reed, or the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position, depending on your perspective...but basically a side cutting action... we always seem to have to do a bit of sanding when making this particular cut... and doing the smaller one is very challenging, as it is only 1 1/2" in diameter... the other sample in the photo is 3" in diameter...the other three photos are a small selection of knife profiles we have accumulated over the years... some coming from old planer and jointer knives obtained at auctions... some from the knife sets sears used to sell...those I see at flea markets quite often...three knives per set, each set having it's own, different profile... one head(the larger) was to be used in a table saw and the other on a shaper... we once set the larger diameter head up into a table saw and when spinning, sounded like a jet taking off!...LOL!... that set up was quickly abandoned... talk about being dangerous!, that made me nervous!... a lot of people will have the opinion that this method of doing light, milling cuts is dangerous, but one thing to point out is safety in our shop is of the highest priority... I will certainly put safety above quality when we are working on a job, even if it means a piece goes out not up to being perfect... there is no job important enough to risk an injury... a lots of the knives from the sears sets we grind to whatever profile we might need to suit the job at hand...we certainly have enough blanks!...LOL!... any questions, please just ask... joe






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey Tim!... yes, this is our machine... not sure when purchased, but I will 
say about 25 years in use... over those years, many mods have been done, 
some a bit "not the norm", to suit a particular job we were doing at that 
time...the cutter is a piece of hardened steel, usually 3/16" thick, that 
fits into a 3/16" slot in the shaper spindle... and I would think you could 
refer to it as a fly cutter... although the one, big difference being it 
protrudes from the spindle very little... nothing like a typical fly cutter 
that you might use in a drill press, for example... and I have seen photos 
of similar router bits that you mentioned, and they were very crude(as 
compared to a typical router bit that you can buy today... but, of course, 
they got the job done, I assume...and being so close to the center line of 
the router collet, the chance of it's unbalance having an adverse effect on 
the router, is greatly reduced... especially if you reduce the speed of the 
router, which we often did, with one of those commercially available router 
speed controllers... there were times we used a typical, wood spade drill 
bit, that had a 1/4' shank,  ground to the profile needed and put into a 
router...again, it got that particular job done and almost every bit was 
never used again... and we would always try to use an existing router bit 
when we could, as they would produce a cleaner cut when in a typical router 
spinning at 25,000 RPM...in regards to the shaper, the rpm's max out at 
13,000, with an option to go to 11,000... the spindle we typically use is 
1" in diameter, and we also have 1 1/4" spindles... the 1" spindle is about 
6" in total height(4" usable slot)... we do have a 1 1/4" spindle that is 
13" in height!(yikes!)... for this we made an "overarm" bearing support 
attachment... wasn't pretty, but it worked and did the job it was supposed 
to do, which was to prevent the spindle from whipping... that particular 
job was a very large, diameter column base that needed to be fluted, so the 
long spindle was needed to reach the center line of the work piece... if 
that shaper could talk!, the stories it could tell!...LOL!...i'll take some 
photos of some of our most used cutters and post later... thanks...joe


>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Richard Ellis]

Hi Tim
 I also kept watching the next follow on videos about flute making quite 
interesting stuff
Thanks for putting it up. I was wondering what use a wooden tube 
was now I know!!
Richard

On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 3:31:30 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
> Joe, is this your machine?  I'd like to see more details of the cutter.  
> In past articles of fine woodworking magazine there have been some articles 
> showing some pretty crude router bits ground from files and loose steel 
> pieces.  A bit spinning at less than say 6-8000 rotations a minute could be 
> relatively safe and still be able to cut even if the bit is unbalanced to 
> some degree.  With a single cutter we are really talking about a tool 
> called a fly cutter.  Wouldn't you agree?
>
> I also like the simple method of indexing the piece.  Thanks for showing 
> interest this on such a slow news month.
>
> Tim
> On Mar 5, 2018, at 11:41 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <
> legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be
>>
>> here is another attempt!
>>
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Tim Krause]

Joe, is this your machine?  I'd like to see more details of the cutter.  In 
past articles of fine woodworking magazine there have been some articles 
showing some pretty crude router bits ground from files and loose steel pieces. 
 A bit spinning at less than say 6-8000 rotations a minute could be relatively 
safe and still be able to cut even if the bit is unbalanced to some degree.  
With a single cutter we are really talking about a tool called a fly cutter.  
Wouldn't you agree?

I also like the simple method of indexing the piece.  Thanks for showing 
interest this on such a slow news month.

Tim

On Mar 5, 2018, 11:41 AM, at 11:41 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
 wrote:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be
>
>here is another attempt!
>
>>
>>
>
>-- 
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>To post to this group, send email to
>legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
>Visit this group at
>https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjX1wkF_nZg=youtu.be


here is a video showing a French spindle at work...the difference being 
that this factory has flipped the spindle 90 degrees so the spindle is now 
horizontal... but it still is a single knife, ground to the desired 
profile(in this case a typical French style chair leg/back stile)  placed 
in a slot in the spindle... the attached photo is from the same video... 
note how the leg is riding against the spinning spindle and the "pointer" 
sets the distance of the cut from the edge of the leg...this set up allows 
the leg to go up and down and in and out, to follow the complex curves of 
the leg... this is fast and easy, but requires a skilled craftsman to do 
this type of work... now it is computerized machinery that does the job, in 
a method that mimics what is in the video... progress?... I am not so 
sure... but we all carry on as a dying breed!...LOL!...my best to all...joe 
b.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Richard Ellis]

Hi Joe
I think Mike does, and has done something similar, when side 
cutting/routing.
Richard

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 3:22:53 PM UTC, joe biunno wrote:
>
> hi Richard!... you can only do one reed or one flute at a time...unless 
> you were doing a flat piece, like a pilaster that has three flutes, for 
> example... just grind a single knife that would have three flute cutters 
> with the proper spacing between the cutters...adjust the height  of the 
> spindle and begin cutting... the benefit being all is done in one pass... 
> of course, this would be done when doing a considerable amount of 
> footage...if doing a small number of pilasters, simply cut one at a time, 
> adjusting the height of the spindle for each flute location...but if the 
> piece is round, such as a leg, bed post, pole, vase etc., you can only do 
> the one cut at a time, much like you would do on a legacy... the big 
> benefit of using this type of spindle, is that you can easily grind the 
> knife you need to any custom shape required to do any job... and that you 
> only need the one knife, not two, as done on today's typical shaper 
> heads...with the key factor that you only do small milling cuts into your 
> work piece... it's when you begin to get "greedy" and use larger knives, is 
> when this type of set-up is dangerous to use... again, none of this is 
> directly legacy related, but there is/was a set up for use in a router that 
> would allow a person to grind their own profile, which would mimic this 
> operation and thus allow a legacy user to not be confined to existing 
> router bits or having custom router bits made to suit their project...joe 
> bok, just edited this post to include a photo of the router bit set up 
> I was referring to
>
>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hi Richard!... you can only do one reed or one flute at a time...unless you 
were doing a flat piece, like a pilaster that has three flutes, for 
example... just grind a single knife that would have three flute cutters 
with the proper spacing between the cutters...adjust the height  of the 
spindle and begin cutting... the benefit being all is done in one pass... 
of course, this would be done when doing a considerable amount of 
footage...if doing a small number of pilasters, simply cut one at a time, 
adjusting the height of the spindle for each flute location...but if the 
piece is round, such as a leg, bed post, pole, vase etc., you can only do 
the one cut at a time, much like you would do on a legacy... the big 
benefit of using this type of spindle, is that you can easily grind the 
knife you need to any custom shape required to do any job... and that you 
only need the one knife, not two, as done on today's typical shaper 
heads...with the key factor that you only do small milling cuts into your 
work piece... it's when you begin to get "greedy" and use larger knives, is 
when this type of set-up is dangerous to use... again, none of this is 
directly legacy related, but there is/was a set up for use in a router that 
would allow a person to grind their own profile, which would mimic this 
operation and thus allow a legacy user to not be confined to existing 
router bits or having custom router bits made to suit their project...joe b.


>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Richard Ellis]

Very interesting, it's always nice to see other ideas at work. Does it do 
two flutes / reeds at once?

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 4:53:22 AM UTC, Curt George wrote:
>
> ;-p Tongue? You Kill me Mike! ;-)
> Joe Neat shaper.  Brings up some good ideas, Thank you,
>
> C.A.G.,
>
>
> On Monday, March 5, 2018 3:52 PM, Okla Mike (Liltwisted) <
> legac...@iglide.net > wrote:
>
>
> But I didn't see where they joined it, did they use a tongue?  LOL
>
>
> On 3/5/2018 1:47 PM, Bawdsey64 wrote:
>
> ​Hi Joe
> Your French Spindle video deserves a French Kiss
> Cheers
> Roger
>
> ​
>
> ​
> From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
> Received: 05/03/2018 19:41:08 +00:00
> To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be
>
> here is another attempt!
>
> ​
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at 
> https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at 
> https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at 
> https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

;-p Tongue? You Kill me Mike! ;-)Joe Neat shaper.  Brings up some good ideas, 
Thank you,
    C.A.G., 

On Monday, March 5, 2018 3:52 PM, Okla Mike (Liltwisted) 
 wrote:
 

  But I didn't see where they joined it, did they use a tongue?  LOL 
  
 On 3/5/2018 1:47 PM, Bawdsey64 wrote:
  
 
 ​Hi Joe Your French Spindle video deserves a French Kiss Cheers Roger
 
   ​
  
  ​  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills Received: 05/03/2018 
19:41:08 +00:00 To: Legacy Ornamental Mills   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be 
  here is another attempt!
  
 ​   -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
-- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

But I didn't see where they joined it, did they use a tongue?  LOL



On 3/5/2018 1:47 PM, Bawdsey64 wrote:


​Hi Joe

Your French Spindle video deserves a French Kiss

Cheers

Roger

​


​
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
Received: 05/03/2018 19:41:08 +00:00
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be

here is another attempt!

​

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To post to this group, send email to 
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
.
Visit this group at 
https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To post to this group, send email to 
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
.
Visit this group at 
https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy 
Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

[Bawdsey64]

Hi Joe
Your French Spindle video deserves a French Kiss
Cheers
Roger






From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
Received: 05/03/2018 19:41:08 +00:00
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be

here is another attempt!



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com].
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills 
[https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
[https://groups.google.com/d/optout].

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbePcJqN6O4=youtu.be

here is another attempt!

>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

well, that did not go as planned...can anyone explain why I am having 
trouble posting a video to the group...I tried this last week, with no 
success as well... are videos not allowed?...i'll keep trying...and the 
deleted post was a second attempt by me...did not work, so I simply deleted 
the post... time to possibly call my film major son for an 
education!...LOL!...joe b.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 1:37:28 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> this is not directly related to our legacy equipment, but thought I would 
> post this video to show how we initially overcame doing milling on long 
> pieces of work...this is what some refer to as a "French" spindle...the 
> name "French", as explained to me, was used to describe a particular, small 
> V-cut used in traditional French furniture... and due the curved design of 
> French furniture during that particular period of time, the idea of a 
> spindle, with a very small cutter protruding out from the spindle, could 
> easily cut the V detail while also following the complex curves of ant 
> particular work piece without the need for templates, as the work piece was 
> pressed against the spinning spindle...it took a bit of practice to follow 
> a curve both up and down, and in and out... this was only possible because 
> the cutter was only protruding out from the spindle about 1/8 of an 
> inch...there was a stationary pin at a 90 degree angle to the spindle that 
> was centered on the spindle... the pin was used as a reference point for 
> cutting distance and a pivot point to  follow the curves of a work piece... 
> you would stand over and beyond the spindle to see what you were doing... 
> of course, using this spindle was considered dangerous and was eventually 
> not used, more for the fact that shops would push the limitations of the 
> spindle by putting in far to big of a cutter knife than what the spindle 
> could safely handle... but for small, tiny, "kiss" cuts it is ideal, as you 
> only have to make one knife...and of course, the idea here is to move the 
> work piece, not the cutter, which is the direct opposite of the legacy, 
> which keeps the work piece stationary and moves the cutter...in the video 
> we are milling a reeded pole that will be used to hold curtains above a 
> window...note the indexing head that is more than 100 years old... the 
> sliding bed we made from wood, and have a few different sizes to handle 
> different lengths, the biggest being about 14 feet and the smallest about 3 
> feet...there is a center support, so the piece does not sag...we also have 
> removable extension tables on our shaper, making it about a total of 16 
> feet long... the negatives are that a shaper spindle does not spin as fast 
> as a router(and perhaps certain cuts cannot be done without a bit of 
> sanding work) and you need two people to do a proper cut when doing long 
> pieces... this is not a legacy post, but might spur some ideas to do 
> milling cuts in a non-legacy way...and it is my first attempt at making a 
> video and posting it, LOL!... joe b.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


french spindle video.MOV
Description: QuickTime movie

milling work, not on a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

this is not directly related to our legacy equipment, but thought I would 
post this video to show how we initially overcame doing milling on long 
pieces of work...this is what some refer to as a "French" spindle...the 
name "French", as explained to me, was used to describe a particular, small 
V-cut used in traditional French furniture... and due the curved design of 
French furniture during that particular period of time, the idea of a 
spindle, with a very small cutter protruding out from the spindle, could 
easily cut the V detail while also following the complex curves of ant 
particular work piece without the need for templates, as the work piece was 
pressed against the spinning spindle...it took a bit of practice to follow 
a curve both up and down, and in and out... this was only possible because 
the cutter was only protruding out from the spindle about 1/8 of an 
inch...there was a stationary pin at a 90 degree angle to the spindle that 
was centered on the spindle... the pin was used as a reference point for 
cutting distance and a pivot point to  follow the curves of a work piece... 
you would stand over and beyond the spindle to see what you were doing... 
of course, using this spindle was considered dangerous and was eventually 
not used, more for the fact that shops would push the limitations of the 
spindle by putting in far to big of a cutter knife than what the spindle 
could safely handle... but for small, tiny, "kiss" cuts it is ideal, as you 
only have to make one knife...and of course, the idea here is to move the 
work piece, not the cutter, which is the direct opposite of the legacy, 
which keeps the work piece stationary and moves the cutter...in the video 
we are milling a reeded pole that will be used to hold curtains above a 
window...note the indexing head that is more than 100 years old... the 
sliding bed we made from wood, and have a few different sizes to handle 
different lengths, the biggest being about 14 feet and the smallest about 3 
feet...there is a center support, so the piece does not sag...we also have 
removable extension tables on our shaper, making it about a total of 16 
feet long... the negatives are that a shaper spindle does not spin as fast 
as a router(and perhaps certain cuts cannot be done without a bit of 
sanding work) and you need two people to do a proper cut when doing long 
pieces... this is not a legacy post, but might spur some ideas to do 
milling cuts in a non-legacy way...and it is my first attempt at making a 
video and posting it, LOL!... joe b.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


french spindle video.MOV
Description: QuickTime movie