Re: new video on on the legacy

[russ veinot]

a softer set screw wouldn't hurt if it makes you feel better.  I can't 
speak for head stocks on all LOM's but mine seems to be hardened.  i see no 
marks on the surface as of this morning.  the set screw touches the surface 
beyond the threads so it is getting a good bite without having to over 
tightening.  if it starts to mark up the shaft, i will definitely steal 
your brass set screw idea.
again, just use multiple set screws and distribute the holding pressure if 
you are concerned.  one more point, the holding power needed to stop the 
chuck from turning just isn't that extreme like on a high speed gear or 
pulley unless you always go crazy on the depth of cut by the router.  i 
would even say something else would give way first even under that 
scenario. 

If you decide to try this please let us all know how well it works (or not 
work) and anymore improvements we can do.  I have been very happy with how 
it works so far and the ease of timing the piece is wonderful (just like 
the locking collar).

thanks for this discussion so others can understand the do's and don'ts and 
judge for themselves what may work for them and helps me figure out what 
might make it better.  this what this format is all about.

I hope it was as good for you as it was for me :>)
Russ


On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 3:33:48 PM UTC-6, russ veinot wrote:
>
> you can see my newest video on youtube at:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM
>
> it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, 
> just like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
> everything.
>
> all comments are welcome,
> Russ
>

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Re: new video on on the legacy

[Tim Krause]

Your runout results are interesting.  YMMV (your mileage may vary).   My only 
concern about using a set screw for the average Joe, is that a cup point is 
used.  The holding power would be excellent, but it will damage the spindle by 
biting into the spindle.  A small circle is embossed in the steel.  I would 
hate to do that to any spindle that I own.  Choosing a brass or nylon or flat 
tipped set screw would prevent marking.  Like you say, there are several 
solutions to this.

-Tim On Dec 8, 2017 8:15 AM, russ veinot  wrote:
>
> Tim, thanks for your comments
> I agree the locking collar with a pin is an excellent idea and effective.  I 
> said awhile back (I think on my face plate video) that a 1"-8 TPI nut cut 
> down to make narrow to fit on the head stock threads would be an adequate 
> solution. You pin idea on the locking nut would make that even better.  As 
> always, there are many solutions to achieve the same result.  I look for 
> practical and simple (and least expensive) solutions.  my set screw solution 
> falls in that criteria, same as your solution  (and Bill's).  "Better" is in 
> the eye of the beholder (blue is the better color :>).
>
> the two statements that you and Bill both made seem to agree on is the set 
> screw would deflect the chuck when tightened and that the set screw might not 
> hold.  This morning I got out my dial indicator and measured the run out of 
> the chuck with the chuck bottomed out on the head stock threads, with the 
> chuck loose on the threads, and with the set screw tightened down.  the run 
> out was less than .001" difference in all 3 scenarios.  As to the set screw 
> not holding, I said (in my video) it holds fine (believe it or not) and if 
> you are not sure, add a second or third set screw.  I therefore stand by my 
> idea that my idea is a valid solution to the problem of timing the piece and 
> holding it on center.  the cost of the set screw is cheap, consistent, and 
> easy to set up. What more can anyone ask for.
>
> Lastly, if you are turning any piece on centers (both ends of the piece on 
> center pins), the run out is determined by the center pins.  The face plate 
> is design to hold the piece during turning, not true to center.  if you turn 
> by bolting to the face plate only (no tail stock pin) the outer diameter run 
> out is an issue.  the 4 pins are there to force the piece to turn with the 
> face plate rotation and not stay centered unless you are using the indexing 
> hub (no center pin).  That has a 4 points of contact to hold the centering of 
> the head stock and run out can then become more of an issue.  
>
> I hope I explained my point of view adequately :>), If after using this idea 
> for a while, I find it to not work as designed, I promise to let you know.
>
> Russ
>
> On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 3:33:48 PM UTC-6, russ veinot wrote:
>>
>> you can see my newest video on youtube 
>> at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM
>>
>> it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, 
>> just like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
>> everything.
>>
>> all comments are welcome,
>> Russ
>
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Re: new video on on the legacy

[russ veinot]

Tim, thanks for your comments
I agree the locking collar with a pin is an excellent idea and effective.  
I said awhile back (I think on my face plate video) that a 1"-8 TPI nut cut 
down to make narrow to fit on the head stock threads would be an adequate 
solution. You pin idea on the locking nut would make that even better.  As 
always, there are many solutions to achieve the same result.  I look for 
practical and simple (and least expensive) solutions.  my set screw 
solution falls in that criteria, same as your solution  (and Bill's).  
"Better" is in the eye of the beholder (blue is the better color :>).

the two statements that you and Bill both made seem to agree on is the set 
screw would deflect the chuck when tightened and that the set screw might 
not hold.  This morning I got out my dial indicator and measured the run 
out of the chuck with the chuck bottomed out on the head stock threads, 
with the chuck loose on the threads, and with the set screw tightened 
down.  the run out was less than .001" difference in all 3 scenarios.  As 
to the set screw not holding, I said (in my video) it holds fine (believe 
it or not) and if you are not sure, add a second or third set screw.  I 
therefore stand by my idea that my idea is a valid solution to the problem 
of timing the piece and holding it on center.  the cost of the set screw is 
cheap, consistent, and easy to set up. What more can anyone ask for.

Lastly, if you are turning any piece on centers (both ends of the piece on 
center pins), the run out is determined by the center pins.  The face plate 
is design to hold the piece during turning, not true to center.  if you 
turn by bolting to the face plate only (no tail stock pin) the outer 
diameter run out is an issue.  the 4 pins are there to force the piece to 
turn with the face plate rotation and not stay centered unless you are 
using the indexing hub (no center pin).  That has a 4 points of contact to 
hold the centering of the head stock and run out can then become more of an 
issue.  

I hope I explained my point of view adequately :>), If after using this 
idea for a while, I find it to not work as designed, I promise to let you 
know.

Russ

On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 3:33:48 PM UTC-6, russ veinot wrote:
>
> you can see my newest video on youtube at:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM
>
> it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, 
> just like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
> everything.
>
> all comments are welcome,
> Russ
>

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RE: new video on on the legacy

[Tim Krause]

I have to agree with Bill on this one.  A better solution is to use a 1" 
locking collar with a dowel pin that mates to your chuck.  For example part 801 
on this page. 

http://lignolathe.com/en/face_plate_system/index.htm

The collar gives the chuck a place to seat and the lock collar prevents the 
chuck from un-winding.  

Further reference:  http://ornamentalmills.com/tips/spindle_shoulder/index.html

-TimOn Dec 7, 2017 2:26 PM, Bill Bulkeley <bulke...@mmnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> For the first time I have to say I’m not fond of this idea you need the chuck 
> to lock up tight to run true loosened the chuck can run out slightly and also 
> if the grub screw screws down on the headstock thread it would damage it. 
> Perhaps a brass grub screw might help but the run out of the chuck is still 
> there and the larger the face plate the more run out it will be and on large 
> work I’m sure you defiantly would need more than one grub screw to hold I’m 
> sorry russ I still like legacy’s double locking collar better. perhaps a 
> rotating face plate or something  as an alternative might be better without 
> having to loosen the chuck 
>
>
>
> Bill 
>
>
>
> From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of russ veinot 
> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 8:34 AM 
> To: Legacy Ornamental Mills 
> Subject: new video on on the legacy 
>
>
>
> you can see my newest video on youtube 
> at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM 
>
>
>
> it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, just 
> like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
> everything. 
>
>
>
> all comments are welcome, 
>
> Russ 
>
> -- 
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Re: new video on on the legacy

[russ veinot]

Bill,
first, there is zero deflection from the set screw, The machined thread 
tolerance is critical or the  chuck would be useless in the first place.  
second, the set screw is not in the thread area at all.  the threads are 
recessed at the back so the set screw touches only the shaft and not a 
single thread.
third, set screws are used to hold all sorts of items tight on a moving 
shaft (pulleys and gears?) and if you are worried it would not hold or 
deflect, then put 2 in it instead.

Sorry, I probably should have pointed these out in the video. I guess not 
everyone has a 4 jaw chuck to check this out.  I hope this puts your 
concerns to rest.
thanks for the comments,
Russ

On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 3:33:48 PM UTC-6, russ veinot wrote:
>
> you can see my newest video on youtube at:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM
>
> it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, 
> just like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
> everything.
>
> all comments are welcome,
> Russ
>

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RE: new video on on the legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

For the first time I have to say I’m not fond of this idea you need the chuck 
to lock up tight to run true loosened the chuck can run out slightly and also 
if the grub screw screws down on the headstock thread it would damage it. 
Perhaps a brass grub screw might help but the run out of the chuck is still 
there and the larger the face plate the more run out it will be and on large 
work I’m sure you defiantly would need more than one grub screw to hold I’m 
sorry russ I still like legacy’s double locking collar better. perhaps a 
rotating face plate or something  as an alternative might be better without 
having to loosen the chuck

 

Bill 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of russ veinot
Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 8:34 AM
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
Subject: new video on on the legacy

 

you can see my newest video on youtube 
at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM

 

it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, just 
like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for everything.

 

all comments are welcome,

Russ

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new video on on the legacy

[russ veinot]

you can see my newest video on youtube 
at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6wzIW1HvM

it's about how to index and lock down the 4 jaw chuck to the head stock, 
just like the locking index hub.  you can then use custom face plates for 
everything.

all comments are welcome,
Russ

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