Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM

[Kathleen Lu via legal-talk]

My personal take (not official guidance):

Question 1:
If I store calculated results based on OSM data in a database table
(without the actual OSM data itself), such as the number of specific
POIs, travel times, travel distances and so on - the database is then a
collective database, a derivative database, a "produced work", or none of
them?

For a count of the number of specific POIs in an area, travel times between
two points, or travel distances between two points, I would say "none of
them", because these types of calculated data points would not actually
contain any data from the OSM database, and thus not be covered by
copyright or database rights law, the rights that ODbL licenses.

Question 2:
Does the calculation of the above described results complies with the
statement: "you geocoded your data"?

No. Geocoding and Geocoding Results have specific meanings, as indicated in
the Geocoding Guidelines.

Question 3:
If I reference other data with the data from this result database, do I
have to put the referenced data under the ODBL license? For the case
that the answer to Question 1 would be collective or a "produced work"?
In case of derivative, I guess the database must be under ODBL...

Your reasoning is correct, but of course, since my answer to 1 is "none of
them", the answer to this question would be "no"



On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 6:42 AM "Birger Schütte" via legal-talk <
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hello to all!
>
> I would like to apologize for asking again, but unfortunately the answer
> did not help me.
> I realize that the use cases are not the ultimate recommendation.
> Therefore I had additionally relied on the
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines.
> I am examining the use of OSM in various tools - this is where these
> questions came up.
> And therefore it would be important for me to understand from when on
> which kind of use of the data leads to the cases mentioned in the questions
> (collective, derivative and so on).
> I have even interviewed a lawyer, but so far with rather little success.
> :-(
>
> So here are my 3 most important still open questions again:
> Question 1:
> If I store calculated results based on OSM data in a database table
> (without the actual OSM data itself), such as the number of specific
> POIs, travel times, travel distances and so on - the database is then a
> collective database, a derivative database, a "produced work", or none of
> them?
>
> Question 2:
> Does the calculation of the above described results complies with the
> statement: "you geocoded your data"?
>
> Question 3:
> If I reference other data with the data from this result database, do I
> have to put the referenced data under the ODBL license? For the case
> that the answer to Question 1 would be collective or a "produced work"?
> In case of derivative, I guess the database must be under ODBL...
>
> Since I haven't had any luck deriving answers to my questions from the
> Community_Guidelines so far, I hope it wouldn't be too much trouble if I
> could possibly get answers to every single question?
> Many thanks for every effort in advance!
>
> Kindly Regards
> Birger
>
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 11:14:14 +0200
> From: Simon Poole 
> To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM
> Message-ID: <9c917920-39c1-03c0-59a4-d0f47fc0e...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> You are unnecessarily making your life hard. There is a big red warning
> at the top of the "Use Cases" page, simply take it seriously (the
> content of that page was written in 2012 a rather long time ago and
> before any of the guidelines existed). The current relevant guidelines
> are available from
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines
>
> In your specific case, as it seems you are not actually geocoding your
> data (that would be extracting address or location information from OSM
> with 3rd party data), that would be the Produced Work and Collective
> Database guidelines.
>
> Simon
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>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM

[Birger Schütte]

Hello to all!

 

I would like to apologize for asking again, but unfortunately the answer did not help me.

I realize that the use cases are not the ultimate recommendation. Therefore I had additionally relied on the 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines.

I am examining the use of OSM in various tools - this is where these questions came up.

And therefore it would be important for me to understand from when on which kind of use of the data leads to the cases mentioned in the questions (collective, derivative and so on).
I have even interviewed a lawyer, but so far with rather little success. :-(

 

So here are my 3 most important still open questions again:
Question 1:
If I store calculated results based on OSM data in a database table (without the actual OSM data itself), such as the number of specific
POIs, travel times, travel distances and so on - the database is then a collective database, a derivative database, a "produced work", or none of them?

 

Question 2:
Does the calculation of the above described results complies with the statement: "you geocoded your data"?
 
Question 3:
If I reference other data with the data from this result database, do I have to put the referenced data under the ODBL license? For the case
that the answer to Question 1 would be collective or a "produced work"?

In case of derivative, I guess the database must be under ODBL...

 

Since I haven't had any luck deriving answers to my questions from the Community_Guidelines so far, I hope it wouldn't be too much trouble if I could possibly get answers to every single question?

Many thanks for every effort in advance!

 

Kindly Regards
Birger

 

Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 11:14:14 +0200
From: Simon Poole 
To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM
Message-ID: <9c917920-39c1-03c0-59a4-d0f47fc0e...@poole.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You are unnecessarily making your life hard. There is a big red warning
at the top of the "Use Cases" page, simply take it seriously (the
content of that page was written in 2012 a rather long time ago and
before any of the guidelines existed). The current relevant guidelines
are available from
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines

In your specific case, as it seems you are not actually geocoding your
data (that would be extracting address or location information from OSM
with 3rd party data), that would be the Produced Work and Collective
Database guidelines.

Simon



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM

[Simon Poole]

You are unnecessarily making your life hard. There is a big red warning
at the top of the "Use Cases" page, simply take it seriously (the
content of that page was written in 2012 a rather long time ago and
before any of the guidelines existed). The current relevant guidelines
are available from
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines

In your specific case, as it seems you are not actually geocoding your
data (that would be extracting address or location information from OSM
with 3rd party data), that would be the Produced Work and Collective
Database guidelines.

Simon

Am 18.05.2020 um 10:10 schrieb "Birger Schütte" via legal-talk:
> Hello!
>  
> I've been studying the OSM license terms, guidelines, community pages,
> FAQs etc. for a few days now, but I'm still unsure about some of the
> statements. So I hope for your experience and would like to ask the
> following three questions:
>  
> Question 1:
> If I store calculated results based on OSM data in a database table
> (without the actual OSM data itself), such as the number of specific
> POIs, travel times, travel distances and so on - the database is then
> a collective database, a derivative database, a "produced work", or
> none of them?
> I'm not sure, because I read about
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/Use_Cases#Case_3:_I_want_to_publish_something_based_on_OSM_and_my_own_data
> ):
> "However, if you have any data that was derived from OSM - for
> instance because you used street names from OSM, or you geocoded your
> data using the locations of roads or building shapes in OSM - then you
> are making a derivative database."
> But the Geocoding Guidelines says
> (https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Geocoding_-_Guideline
> ):
> "the Geocoding Results are not used to create a new database that
> contains the whole or a substantial part of the original OSM database,
> then the share-alike obligations of the ODbL are not triggered"
>  
> Question 2:
> Does the calculation of the above described results complies with the
> statement: "you geocoded your data"? Or is that not what the guideline
> means?
>  
> Question 3:
> If I reference other data with the data from this result database, do
> I have to put the referenced data under the ODBL license? For the case
> that the answer to Question 1 would be collective or a "produced work"?
> In case of derivative, I guess the database must be under ODBL...
>  
> I would appreciate any kind of help!
>  
> Kindly Regards
> birgos
>
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> legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
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[OSM-legal-talk] Legal questions about using OSM

[Birger Schütte]

Hello!

 

I've been studying the OSM license terms, guidelines, community pages, FAQs etc. for a few days now, but I'm still unsure about some of the statements. So I hope for your experience and would like to ask the following three questions:

 

Question 1:
If I store calculated results based on OSM data in a database table (without the actual OSM data itself), such as the number of specific POIs, travel times, travel distances and so on - the database is then a collective database, a derivative database, a "produced work", or none of them?

I'm not sure, because I read about (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/Use_Cases#Case_3:_I_want_to_publish_something_based_on_OSM_and_my_own_data):
"However, if you have any data that was derived from OSM - for instance because you used street names from OSM, or you geocoded your data using the locations of roads or building shapes in OSM - then you are making a derivative database."

But the Geocoding Guidelines says (https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Geocoding_-_Guideline):
"the Geocoding Results are not used to create a new database that contains the whole or a substantial part of the original OSM database, then the share-alike obligations of the ODbL are not triggered"

 

Question 2:
Does the calculation of the above described results complies with the statement: "you geocoded your data"? Or is that not what the guideline means?

 

Question 3:
If I reference other data with the data from this result database, do I have to put the referenced data under the ODBL license? For the case that the answer to Question 1 would be collective or a "produced work"?

In case of derivative, I guess the database must be under ODBL...

 

I would appreciate any kind of help!

 

Kindly Regards

birgos



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