Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 05:41:41AM -0800, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > sward wrote: > > Communications with Jordan have apparently broken down. > > Mikel's e-mail of 15th Jan, which post-dates the minutes you're quoting > from, said Jordan had been involved in a meeting with them the previous day, Quite right, this had escaped me while I was responding. This does point out a fairly major concern though: Should communications break down again, we’re almost back to square one, unless we can ensure that we will be able to work from, or sponsor someone else to work from, the current drafts of the licence. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 04:07:38PM +, Rob Myers wrote: > > By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts for > > review, > > I don't understand what an open development process for a legal document > would look like if not iterated drafting and comment. > There should be another round of comment on the licence, no matter how > fed up everyone is with the process, but not any kind of exercise in > legal crowdsourcing or radical democracy. I don’t envisage a free‐for‐all as a necessity for open development. I’m more after seeing the licence as it is being developed, and being given the chance to comment on it throughout. This doesn’t mean I get to change it as I see fit. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
Peter Miller wrote: > If that is news to you as well Richard, then I am really confused. I think that must have been a slip of the tongue on his part - I stepped down from OSMF last summer and have had no official involvement with this process since then. Certainly when I was involved, the principle was very much that it was an Open Data Commons licence rather than an OSM-specific one. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/23rd-Dec-board-meeting-tp21639674p21653833.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
Please don't post personal emails when discussing trustworthiness. :-( - Rob. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
On 25 Jan 2009, at 12:00, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > sward wrote: >> By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts >> for review, OSMF have forced the process to involve rounds >> of consultation. > > It's not OSMF's licence. It is a third-party licence which OSM is > considering and on which OSMF has sponsored some work. To my knowledge > Jordan has always been very willing to receive comments and > suggestions. > Not true. It was the case with our earlier legal review which was welcomed and to which he responded and requested further comments. After a few months of no information from the board I emailed him again and requested a copy of the legal text. I got the following reply on the 8th Jan 09: "Hi Peter, "Thanks for your email. I am working exclusively with Steve, Andy, and Richard on my contributions. Any update will be available through them. "~Jordan If that is news to you as well Richard, then I am really confused. Regards, Peter > cheers > Richard > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/23rd-Dec-board-meeting-tp21639674p21650895.html > Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Legal Talk mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
Simon Ward wrote: > I can’t help but think it would be more with the spirit of the project > to have open development of the licence, and that it would have been > beneficial if this had been an open development much earlier. I've submitted comments on previous drafts of the licence via the blog it was posted on and got feedback, and I bumped into Jordan at a conference last year and mentioned some things to him then (iirc). This is comparable to the access I (as a pleb) had to the CC and GPL redrafting processes. > By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts for > review, I don't understand what an open development process for a legal document would look like if not iterated drafting and comment. This is how every other licence drafting and re-drafting process I've been involved with has worked. There should be another round of comment on the licence, no matter how fed up everyone is with the process, but not any kind of exercise in legal crowdsourcing or radical democracy. - Rob. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
sward wrote: > Communications with Jordan have apparently broken down. Mikel's e-mail of 15th Jan, which post-dates the minutes you're quoting from, said Jordan had been involved in a meeting with them the previous day, and was "currently in discussion" with Wilson Semprini (). cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/23rd-Dec-board-meeting-tp21639674p21651812.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 04:00:58AM -0800, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > sward wrote: > > By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts > > for review, OSMF have forced the process to involve rounds > > of consultation. > > It's not OSMF's licence. It is a third-party licence which OSM is > considering and on which OSMF has sponsored some work. To my knowledge > Jordan has always been very willing to receive comments and suggestions. OSMF wanted to modify it for OpenStreetMap. OSMF have lawyers looking at it, with a view to ironing out legal issues. Open Data Commons seem to have lost interest in it. Communications with Jordan have apparently broken down. I think it’s high time OSMF took a bit more control. Hopefully, the licence itself is freely modifiable and distributable (I don’t know, and can’t see any reference). Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
sward wrote: > By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts > for review, OSMF have forced the process to involve rounds > of consultation. It's not OSMF's licence. It is a third-party licence which OSM is considering and on which OSMF has sponsored some work. To my knowledge Jordan has always been very willing to receive comments and suggestions. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/23rd-Dec-board-meeting-tp21639674p21650895.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
