Re: OT? Beware of ChatGPT

[Thomas Passin]

Humans probably have a level of abstraction that is most susceptible to 
manipulation.  It would perhaps differ between people to an extent, and 
also perhaps with the kind of subject  being manipulated.  I suspect that 
it is at a level that would correspond to "species" or the next higher 
level.   For example, not "this oak tree in my yard"  but "oak tree", or 
even "tree".  "immigrants", not "Juan Rodrigo".  Adding perjorative 
stereotyped adjectives probably changes the abstraction level and tends to 
hook into emotional (non-rational) stereotype processing, adding power to 
the manipulation.

ChatGPT-like agents would be able to assemble such language if asked with 
the right prompts.

On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 11:11:49 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:

> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Imo, we have every right to consider the need to address manipulation by 
> machines employing AI.  Period :-)
>
> Yes, but I am academically-minded, and I expect to argue my case - because 
> I do not expect to be believed unless I present a sound argument. 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/68583156-f03f-48ec-922a-e3709c314c4dn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: OT? Beware of ChatGPT

[David Szent-Györgyi]

Thanks for your comments.

Imo, we have every right to consider the need to address manipulation by 
machines employing AI.  Period :-)

Yes, but I am academically-minded, and I expect to argue my case - because 
I do not expect to be believed unless I present a sound argument. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/533c99b2-0a91-412d-913c-caf2aa213e1cn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: Two more PRs merged into devel

[Félix]

I was trying for a while to run the unit tests before making a small pull 
request to the Leo codebase... (it's been a while) and I Had to resort to 
searching the forums for this thread.

So I just thought I'd suggest to someone who may feel knowledgeable than me 
about python unit-testing systems to add a bit of info on the '*Testing*' 
node in leoPyRef.leo.

My motivation is that I feel like simply mentioning: 

*Run these tests using unittest or pytest from the command line.*
*See g.run_unit_tests and g.run_coverage_tests.*

May not be enough for python/Leo newbies like me hehe.. :) 

Félix
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 5:06:38 PM UTC-4 Félix wrote:

> I was trying to find the way to test my modifications... (test-all has 
> been removed as you all stated in this thread)
>
> I found this thread and the commands given above 
>
> *py -m unittest *
> and
> *py -m unittest leo.unittests.core.test_leoserver*
>
> which worked fine on my windows machine (Thanks Thomas!)
>
> So i'm just wondering: Are the tests instructions/commands listed in 
> leoPyRef.leo? or at https://www.leoeditor.com/leo_toc.html?  I could not 
> find anything (although i admit i'm bad at searching and googling 
> sometimes!) 
>
> Félix
>
>
> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:23:30 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 12:19 AM Viktor Ransmayr  
>> wrote:
>>
>> OK, I was only surprised, that the removal of ~ 50 (test-* & cover-*) 
>>> commands did not warrant an own msg.
>>>
>>
>> Not announcing the change more clearly was an oversight on my part.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/79ef9b45-b737-447e-8a57-0cc4c6087b1bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: OT? Beware of ChatGPT

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 5:12 PM David Szent-Györgyi 
wrote:

Bear with me. What follows is Not Brief.
>

[Big snip]

If we accept Hayakawa's arguments, we have every right to consider the need
> to address manipulation by machines employing AI and the levels of
> abstraction in that, and the abstraction in their communications with human
> beings.
>

Thanks for your comments.

Imo, we have every right to consider the need to address manipulation by
machines employing AI.  Period :-)

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS1XpmgmNF0YXbyhpMHmTESStUwCw9VP_ECG7ip7_svHXw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: Im out of the hospital and feeling better

[Félix]

Thanks to all who supported me! 

Feeling better, passed the stone, the other ones will get pulverized by 
ultrasound in the following week(s) so it wont be a crazy painful episode 
like this was!

Also, knowing what the issue is, and having the proper ureter-relaxant and 
painkiller in stock, is a great relief!

Again, thanks to all you Leonistas who sent me kinds words of sympathy - it 
really, really helped more than you would think!!

Félix

On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 5:27 PM Félix  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thank you!! Much appreciated 
>
>
> You're welcome. I've had several kidney stones. They create level 8-9 pain.
>
> Ibuprofen eases the pain like no other over-the-counter meds do.
>
> Edward
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/f2b49d64-57ca-4a13-b7d7-b20a08a897den%40googlegroups.com.

Re: OT? Beware of ChatGPT

[David Szent-Györgyi]

Bear with me. What follows is Not Brief. 

Understanding and deployment of the current wave of AI require 
understanding of two works of The Twentieth Century. One is Kurt Gödel's 
Incompleteness Theorems. The other is Alfred Korzybski's General Semantics, 
as explained by S. I. Hayakawa. 

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems are a follow-on to the work of Alfred North 
Whitehead and Bertrand Russell, who in the the second decade of the 
Twentieth Century published *Principia Mathematica. *The Wikipedia article 
on that work  provides 
a useful summary: 

«*PM*, according to its introduction, had three aims: (1) to analyze to the 
greatest possible extent the ideas and methods of mathematical logic and to 
minimize the number of primitive notions, axioms, and inference rules; (2) 
to precisely express mathematical propositions in symbolic logic using the 
most convenient notation that precise expression allows; (3) to solve the 
paradoxes that plagued logic and set theory at the turn of the 20th century 
. . .»

That article continues: 

«There is no doubt that *PM* is of great importance in the history of 
mathematics and philosophy: as Irvine has noted, it sparked interest in 
symbolic logic and advanced the subject by popularizing it; it showcased 
the powers and capacities of symbolic logic; and it showed how advances in 
philosophy of mathematics and symbolic logic could go hand-in-hand with 
tremendous fruitfulness. Indeed, *PM* was in part brought about by an 
interest in logicism, the view on which all mathematical truths are logical 
truths. It was in part thanks to the advances made in *PM* that, despite 
its defects, numerous advances in meta-logic were made, including Gödel's 
incompleteness theorems.»

Gödel made public his Incompleteness Theorems in 1930. From the Wikipedia 
article on him : 

«These theorems ended a half-century of attempts, beginning with the work 
of Gottlob Frege and culminating in *Principia Mathematica* and Hilbert's 
Program, to find a non-relatively consistent axiomatization sufficient for 
number theory (that was to serve as the foundation for other fields of 
mathematics).
In hindsight, the basic idea at the heart of the incompleteness theorem is 
rather simple. Gödel essentially constructed a formula that claims that it 
is unprovable in a given formal system. If it were provable, it would be 
false. Thus there will always be at least one true but unprovable 
statement. That is, for any computably enumerable set of axioms for 
arithmetic (that is, a set that can in principle be printed out by an 
idealized computer with unlimited resources), there is a formula that is 
true of arithmetic, but which is not provable in that system.»

The Incompleteness Theorems prove that any system of logic has one of two 
flaws: if it is internally consistent, there is a truth that cannot be 
derived within it; if it is universal ("always provable"), it must 
mishandle at least one proof, producing an incorrect result. 

*This applies to digital computer programs, which implement machines; such 
machines are by definition abstracted constructs of statements that fall 
within a system of logic. *What sense we are to make of such machines needs 
to be discussed, since those machines' workings are complex and beyond the 
examination of human beings. 

Hayakawa's book *Language in Thought and Action *was published in 1949, and 
intended to provide a toolkit for defense against manipulation via forms of 
communication that include propaganda, advertisement,  and popular 
entertainment. Hayakawa reformulates findings of Alfred Korzybski's General 
Semantics: he calls upon the reader to distinguish between their internal 
model of the world and the world itself, with the admonition that "the map 
is not the territory".  He presents the idea of a "ladder of abstraction" 
in which a rung is more abstract than the one below it. He argues that 
manipulative communications - in propaganda, in advertisement, in popular 
culture - are more easily applied at higher levels of abstraction. He 
advises the reader to beware such manipulation, and to promote more honest 
and productive communication by pitching discussion at lower rungs when 
possible. 

The founders of General Semantics were beings of their time and place, 
describing their work as a theoretical and a practical system whose 
adoption can reliably alter human behavior in the direction of greater 
sanity. Looking back on that from 2023, one can see arrogance in their a 
position. One can wonder whether they were aware of the implications of 
Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems for their own system of logic. 

That said, it is worth recalling Hayakawa's teachings in the present 
discussion. Hayakawa wrote about human constructs. ChatGPT is a machine, an 
abstraction with assumptions and logic that are not open to inspection, one 
that 

Re: Simplified g.trace in devel

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 9:36:01 AM UTC-6 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> Coming soon. g.get_ctor_name, a util for traces, developed for my traces 
of Rope.

Now in devel.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/a1d3dec1-c9f9-4422-b962-2e764fd3cd60n%40googlegroups.com.

Simplified g.trace in devel

[Edward K. Ream]

PR #3108  greatly 
simplifies g.trace as you can see from the diff 
.

My work with Rope has been an unexpected source of innovation for Leo.

Coming soon. g.get_ctor_name, a util for traces, developed for my traces of 
Rope.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/c4640136-b6e1-4a91-ae6f-2517e1f14c6cn%40googlegroups.com.