Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
Hi Edward
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 17:43:08 UTC+1, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:03 AM, jkn > wrote:
>
> > some of the most IMO convenient key-bindings in Brief need some special
> > effort before they can work in Leo. For instance:
> >
> > 1) The numeric key-pad keys are used for special purposes
> > 1a) is cut (region if selected, else current line)
> > 1b) is copy (region if selected, else current line)
> > 1c) is insert from clipboard
> > This works brilliantly, but would require some Qt KeyHandler work to
> > disambiguate the numeric keypad keys from the 'standard' plus, minus,
> insert
> > keys
> >
> > 2) the use of multiple presses of and
> > 2a) a single moves the cursor to the beginning of the current
> line
> > 2b) a double moves the cursor to the top of the current
> page
> > (as viewed)
> > 2b) a triple moves the cursor to the top of the
> current
> > buffer (would correspond to outline, I guess)
> > Similarly for multiple presses of
>
> Interesting. I don't remember, if I ever knew, how Qt handles
> double/triple key presses.
>
I have no idea either! the triple-key stuff would be handled in Leo, not Qt.
I made a start on this via lossage(), but it was corresponding action
('move to the *visible* top of the node being edited') that I haven't got
around to
>
> As you probably know, key handling in Leo (and really, everywhere) is
> fraught with complexities. That's not going to change any time soon.
>
> There are two places to start any investigation of keystrokes in Leo:
> k.masterKeyHandler and LeoQtEventFilter.eventFiler. Both contain many
> tracing options. In particular, eventFilter and it's helpers can
> trace whatever events Qt is generating. Understanding what events Leo
> actually gets is the first step. Be sure to check out
> LeoQtEventFilter.traceEvent. It can be your friend.
>
Yeah, thanks. IIRC the distinction between eg. pressing the 'standard'
'plus'
key, and pressing the one on the keypad, is rather buried within Qt (not
Leo).
It is probably OS-dependent too. I haven't started chasing that one down,
sadly...
Jon N
> HTH.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:03 AM, jkn wrote: > some of the most IMO convenient key-bindings in Brief need some special > effort before they can work in Leo. For instance: > > 1) The numeric key-pad keys are used for special purposes > 1a) is cut (region if selected, else current line) > 1b) is copy (region if selected, else current line) > 1c) is insert from clipboard > This works brilliantly, but would require some Qt KeyHandler work to > disambiguate the numeric keypad keys from the 'standard' plus, minus, insert > keys > > 2) the use of multiple presses of and > 2a) a single moves the cursor to the beginning of the current line > 2b) a double moves the cursor to the top of the current page > (as viewed) > 2b) a triple moves the cursor to the top of the current > buffer (would correspond to outline, I guess) > Similarly for multiple presses of Interesting. I don't remember, if I ever knew, how Qt handles double/triple key presses. As you probably know, key handling in Leo (and really, everywhere) is fraught with complexities. That's not going to change any time soon. There are two places to start any investigation of keystrokes in Leo: k.masterKeyHandler and LeoQtEventFilter.eventFiler. Both contain many tracing options. In particular, eventFilter and it's helpers can trace whatever events Qt is generating. Understanding what events Leo actually gets is the first step. Be sure to check out LeoQtEventFilter.traceEvent. It can be your friend. HTH. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
Hi Edward On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:10:07 UTC+1, Edward K. Ream wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 4:16 PM, jkn > > wrote: > > > IMO the best key bindings are those of the Brief text editor... > > The Brief key-bindings are modeless and use the Alt-key extensively... > > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=265# vim emulation > > Thanks, Jon, for this heads up. > > > I would recommend you take a look at the bindings and see if you think > they > > might suit you. > > Certainly they would be better for me than vim :-) Having said that, > almost by definition I like the Leo bindings just as they are. > > > I would be keen to do anything that would assist in a Brief-compatible > set of key-bindings for Leo. > > Have you tried creating an @keys brief tree in your myLeoSettings.leo? > > For instructions and examples, see leoSettings.leo, the node: > > @settings-->Keyboard shortcuts-->@ignore Unused key bindings > Yes, I have made some steps towards a custom set of commands. The reason I haven't gone further (I have mentioned this in some old postings, but I wouldn't expect you to remember) is that some of the most IMO convenient key-bindings in Brief need some special effort before they can work in Leo. For instance: 1) The numeric key-pad keys are used for special purposes 1a) is cut (region if selected, else current line) 1b) is copy (region if selected, else current line) 1c) is insert from clipboard This works brilliantly, but would require some Qt KeyHandler work to disambiguate the numeric keypad keys from the 'standard' plus, minus, insert keys 2) the use of multiple presses of and 2a) a single moves the cursor to the beginning of the current line 2b) a double moves the cursor to the top of the current page (as viewed) 2b) a triple moves the cursor to the top of the current buffer (would correspond to outline, I guess) Similarly for multiple presses of We had a discussion about this and the use of 'losssage', some time ago. I started to have a go at coding it, but didn't get past the bit where you work out the visible region on screen and move to the beginning/end of it. 3) Many of Brief's commands are ALT- based. I find this much nicer than eg. using ESC as in Vim. But it does clash with windows keys etc, and would mostly mean throwing out a lot of other key bindings. I would be happy to live with that if som of the I did raise some wishlists bug reports on Launchpad around all of this a year or so ago; however I appreciate I may be in an audience of one for all of this. Still, here's hoping... Cheers jon N -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 4:16 PM, jkn wrote: > IMO the best key bindings are those of the Brief text editor... > The Brief key-bindings are modeless and use the Alt-key extensively... > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=265# vim emulation Thanks, Jon, for this heads up. > I would recommend you take a look at the bindings and see if you think they > might suit you. Certainly they would be better for me than vim :-) Having said that, almost by definition I like the Leo bindings just as they are. > I would be keen to do anything that would assist in a Brief-compatible set of > key-bindings for Leo. Have you tried creating an @keys brief tree in your myLeoSettings.leo? For instructions and examples, see leoSettings.leo, the node: @settings-->Keyboard shortcuts-->@ignore Unused key bindings Please do not change leoSettings.leo yourself. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
Hi Edward I have been following your persistance with Vim mode with interest. I have had occasionally need to use VIM-style key bindings for probably the last 20 years or so; each time I try to get a bit beyond where I was last time in my learning of Vim; each time I mostly fail.Like you I think the modal philosophy just doesn't suit. I have learned quite a few editors in my time, going back to primitive line-based editors under Dos & Linux, then simple editors like PMate and Teco, on to Wordstar, and then may others. I've mentioned this before, but IMO the best key bindings are those of the Brief text editor, originally from Dave Naanan(sp?) and Underware inc. Brief got bought by Borland who had the Codewright editor. Nowadays the most thorough implementation of a cross-platform Brief-compatible editor is CRiSP (see links below) The Brief key-bindings are modeless and use the Alt-key extensively. I found them immediately comfortable when I first came across them 20+ years ago, and that opinion has only been reinforced over time. I would recommend you take a look at the bindings and see if you think they might suit you. I would be keen to do anything that would assist in a Brief-compatible set of key-bindings for Leo. Currently I have to switch between standard Leo command bindings, and Brief ones, depending on which editor I use. I have augmented my Leo settings to assist in this but there are a few areas which might need more 'core' Leo work. Some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brief_%28text_editor%29 https://www.crisp.com http://www/crisp.demon.co.uk http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=265# vim emulation of Brief; probably one remove to many to use as a reference for 'Proper' brief bindings. HTH and Cheers Jon N On Sunday, 10 August 2014 14:58:25 UTC+1, Edward K. Ream wrote: > > On Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:58:43 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: > > > some people, including me, simply will never be comfortable with vim. > > I'll say one just one more thing on this topic. My frustration with vim > will not be cured by adding more normal-mode commands because my > frustration arises from the difficulty of switching modes. > > EKR > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:58:43 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: > some people, including me, simply will never be comfortable with vim. I'll say one just one more thing on this topic. My frustration with vim will not be cured by adding more normal-mode commands because my frustration arises from the difficulty of switching modes. EKR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Fidel N wrote: > Seems like best solution right now is vim-trainer mode :D I'm not sure I would recommend vim-trainer mode for anyone. Imo, some people, including me, simply will never be comfortable with vim. I am not comfortable with vim mode after using it exclusively for over a week. That seems long enough for a fair test. For me, vim mode becomes more annoying the more I use it. I think I have a right to this opinion, after spending weeks implementing vim mode ;-) To be clear, the choice between the emacs way and the vim way is surely a preference. I have no interest in arguing about preferences. Having said that, I am dubious of many of the claims of those in the vim camp that certain key sequences are, or are not, easier to type than others. Is :q really easier to type than Ctrl-S? Hard to say. Are h,j,k,l easier than arrow keys? Not for me. I am dubious about vim commands that require the Shift key. Why is the Shift key "good" and the Control key "bad"? But please, if you think vim is great, feel free to use Leo's vim mode :-) There is no need here to discuss why you think vim is great. Thanks for not starting an argument... Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Kent Tenney wrote:
> Why disable mouse? I often mix in some mouse when using vim.
Interesting.
> almost forgot 'x' for delete
Now works. BTW, there is now a user setting, @bool vim-crosses-lines
that determines
whether the f,F,h,l,t,T,x commands can cross line boundaries. True by
default, even though in the real vim it would be False by default.
Also, at present the f,F,t and T commands don't work if this setting
is False.
>> I'll investigate whether there are easy alternatives to backspace and
>> del. Hmm. One way is visual mode: v{motion keys}d.
Based on this conversation, I see no need for alternatives for
backspace and del.
In fact, I think vim trainer mode probably should be retired.
>> I'll play the vim adventures game to discover which vim commands
>> should be added sooner rather than later.
A total disappointment. Was not able to get out of level one, so the
only practice I got was with the h,j,k,l keys.
Imo, it is a user preference, not a law of nature, whether arrow keys
are easier to type than h,j,k,l. In particular, the arrangement of
arrow keys on most keyboards is more intuitive that the plain keys.
Even after after much practice, I still confuse j and k. That never
happens with arrow keys. For me, "reaching" for the arrow keys is
second nature and so the assertion that h,j,k,l are superior is simply
wrong for me.
> I would rate the odds of me converting to vim at less than 50%.
The more I use vim, the less I like it. I will fix the two
outstanding vim bugs and complete all of Kent's suggestions, and any
others that are easy to do. I'll continue to use vim mode while
working on vim, but I have no plans to use vim after the project
completes.
Edward
P.S. The / and ? and n keys now work, but they don't set the dot.
I'll fix that today.
EKR
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Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
Sorry again, but the shortcutfoo website also asks for money when you reach certain level :( Seems like best solution right now is vim-trainer mode :D -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
I must warn you when you reach level 2, you need to buy a license =(
So I checked for a while and would recommend those:
Vim casts:
http://vimcasts.org/
Learning and memorizing shortcuts:
https://www.shortcutfoo.com/app/tutorial/vim
More resources here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7579213/is-there-an-interactive-way-to-learn-vim
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Kent Tenney wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Edward K. Ream
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Edward K. Ream
> wrote:
> >
> >> vim-training mode will disable the operation of all arrow keys,
> [except] Alt-arrow keys
> >
> > Recent revs implement vim-trainer. OMG, vim-trainer is *intense*.
> > Here are some notes:
> >
> > 1. vim-trainer *instantly* changed how I use vim mode. jj becomes
> > necessary, and pretty much second nature.
> >
> > 2. I have not found a way to disable mouse clicks in the body pane.
> > One would think it would be possible in
> > LeoQTBaseTextWidget.mouseReleaseEvent, which does receive all mouse
> > clicks in the body.
> >
> > But maybe disabling clicks is a bad idea. Lol. The workaround is
> > just to move the mouse far away, which seems good enough.
> >
>
> Why disable mouse? I often mix in some mouse when using vim.
>
> > 3. I had no idea I was using the arrow keys so much. Ditto for Home,
> > End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-X and a few others. At present, vim-trainer
> > mode does not disable these keys. It would be easy to do, but I'm
> > stressed enough as it is :-)
> >
> > 4. Without these cursor motion keys, the corresponding vim commands
> > become absolutely essential. This has revealed problems:
> >
> > - $ sucks. This is one of the most difficult keys to type.
>
> Yeah, I don't use it
> >
> > - 0 and ^ seem backwards: typing 0 is much easier than typing ^, so I
> > would prefer that 0 be the smart-home key. Maybe I've gotten these
> > commands backwards...
>
> I
>
> >
> > - You could say that backspace and esc are on the keyboard, but I find
> > them both difficult to type. That's why jj is useful.
> >
> > - Del is worse: on my keyboard it is farther than any arrow key...
>
> almost forgot 'x' for delete
>
> >
> > I'll investigate whether there are easy alternatives to backspace and
> > del. Hmm. One way is visual mode: v{motion keys}d.
> >
> > = Summary
> >
> > vim-trainer is a big success: it *instantly* changed how I use vim mode.
> >
> > vim-trainer still allows Home, End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X. For
> > now, disabling them would cause my head to explode. These keys will be
> > disabled when vim-mode has good alternatives.
> >
> > I'll play the vim adventures game to discover which vim commands
> > should be added sooner rather than later. Having said that, I would
> > rate the odds of me converting to vim at less than 50%. Otoh, I am
> > pretty sure that committed vim users are going to fee comfortable with
> > Leo's vim-mode.
> >
> > Edward
> >
> > --
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Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> vim-training mode will disable the operation of all arrow keys, [except]
>> Alt-arrow keys
>
> Recent revs implement vim-trainer. OMG, vim-trainer is *intense*.
> Here are some notes:
>
> 1. vim-trainer *instantly* changed how I use vim mode. jj becomes
> necessary, and pretty much second nature.
>
> 2. I have not found a way to disable mouse clicks in the body pane.
> One would think it would be possible in
> LeoQTBaseTextWidget.mouseReleaseEvent, which does receive all mouse
> clicks in the body.
>
> But maybe disabling clicks is a bad idea. Lol. The workaround is
> just to move the mouse far away, which seems good enough.
>
Why disable mouse? I often mix in some mouse when using vim.
> 3. I had no idea I was using the arrow keys so much. Ditto for Home,
> End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-X and a few others. At present, vim-trainer
> mode does not disable these keys. It would be easy to do, but I'm
> stressed enough as it is :-)
>
> 4. Without these cursor motion keys, the corresponding vim commands
> become absolutely essential. This has revealed problems:
>
> - $ sucks. This is one of the most difficult keys to type.
Yeah, I don't use it
>
> - 0 and ^ seem backwards: typing 0 is much easier than typing ^, so I
> would prefer that 0 be the smart-home key. Maybe I've gotten these
> commands backwards...
I
>
> - You could say that backspace and esc are on the keyboard, but I find
> them both difficult to type. That's why jj is useful.
>
> - Del is worse: on my keyboard it is farther than any arrow key...
almost forgot 'x' for delete
>
> I'll investigate whether there are easy alternatives to backspace and
> del. Hmm. One way is visual mode: v{motion keys}d.
>
> = Summary
>
> vim-trainer is a big success: it *instantly* changed how I use vim mode.
>
> vim-trainer still allows Home, End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X. For
> now, disabling them would cause my head to explode. These keys will be
> disabled when vim-mode has good alternatives.
>
> I'll play the vim adventures game to discover which vim commands
> should be added sooner rather than later. Having said that, I would
> rate the odds of me converting to vim at less than 50%. Otoh, I am
> pretty sure that committed vim users are going to fee comfortable with
> Leo's vim-mode.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> vim-training mode will disable the operation of all arrow keys, [except]
> Alt-arrow keys
Recent revs implement vim-trainer. OMG, vim-trainer is *intense*.
Here are some notes:
1. vim-trainer *instantly* changed how I use vim mode. jj becomes
necessary, and pretty much second nature.
2. I have not found a way to disable mouse clicks in the body pane.
One would think it would be possible in
LeoQTBaseTextWidget.mouseReleaseEvent, which does receive all mouse
clicks in the body.
But maybe disabling clicks is a bad idea. Lol. The workaround is
just to move the mouse far away, which seems good enough.
3. I had no idea I was using the arrow keys so much. Ditto for Home,
End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-X and a few others. At present, vim-trainer
mode does not disable these keys. It would be easy to do, but I'm
stressed enough as it is :-)
4. Without these cursor motion keys, the corresponding vim commands
become absolutely essential. This has revealed problems:
- $ sucks. This is one of the most difficult keys to type.
- 0 and ^ seem backwards: typing 0 is much easier than typing ^, so I
would prefer that 0 be the smart-home key. Maybe I've gotten these
commands backwards...
- You could say that backspace and esc are on the keyboard, but I find
them both difficult to type. That's why jj is useful.
- Del is worse: on my keyboard it is farther than any arrow key...
I'll investigate whether there are easy alternatives to backspace and
del. Hmm. One way is visual mode: v{motion keys}d.
= Summary
vim-trainer is a big success: it *instantly* changed how I use vim mode.
vim-trainer still allows Home, End, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X. For
now, disabling them would cause my head to explode. These keys will be
disabled when vim-mode has good alternatives.
I'll play the vim adventures game to discover which vim commands
should be added sooner rather than later. Having said that, I would
rate the odds of me converting to vim at less than 50%. Otoh, I am
pretty sure that committed vim users are going to fee comfortable with
Leo's vim-mode.
Edward
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Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:46 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote: >> I don't get the point of this link. > > It's a game you play with vim keystrokes, designed to make you vim > proficient. It seemed relevant to your vim-trainer idea. Thanks. vim-trainer could be called something similar. I'm writing up my experiences as we speak. EKR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 11:39:09 -0500 "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:56 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor > wrote: > > > Fidel pointed this out on IRC > > http://vim-adventures.com/ > > I don't get the point of this link. It's a game you play with vim keystrokes, designed to make you vim proficient. It seemed relevant to your vim-trainer idea. I've never used vim, so I'm not planning on learning it now, but it's an amusing idea. We could have a Leo game - how fast can you rearrange the tree to look like this... :-) Cheers -Terry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:56 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote: > Fidel pointed this out on IRC > http://vim-adventures.com/ I don't get the point of this link. EKR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Aha: vim trainer mode
On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 07:36:48 -0700 (PDT) "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > One last hope appeared yesterday. I call it vim trainer mode. Fidel pointed this out on IRC http://vim-adventures.com/ Cheers -Terry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Aha: vim trainer mode
At present, I am far from loving using vim mode. I use it because I must: it's the only way to shake down subtle bugs and to get the true feel for the code. I thought that using vim (for real) for a week or so might make me more comfortable with it. Not yet. True, some aspects of vim are becoming a little less unbearable, but I still feel like I am carrying extra weight when using vim mode. The constant struggle to remember what mode I am in is unpleasant. Worse, this struggle carries over to non-modal editors such as the one I use to create this post. Every once in awhile I start to wonder whether what mode I am in! It stops me momentarily, and saps my energy. It totally sucks. One last hope appeared yesterday. I call it vim trainer mode. The idea appeared to me as follows. As I was thinking about my difficulties migrating to the vim way, I saw that I was using Leo's arrow keys and the mouse to move around the body pane and to select text. This pulls my hand from the keyboard, and makes it even less likely to use the vim-like ways: h, j, k, l, and other more complex cursor movement and selection commands. So the Aha is this: @bool vim_trainer = True (or :toggle-vim-training-mode) will enter vim trainer mode. In this mode, Leo will prevent mouse clicks from moving the cursor. (For sanity, mouse clicks will still select various widgets). vim-training mode will also disable the operation of all arrow keys, with the possible exception of Alt-arrow keys: maybe gt will move focus to the tree. In short, vim-trainer mode will force me to use vim-mode like experienced vim users do. This is the last best hope for me ;-) Edward P.S. Vim-trainer mode will be dead easy to do. P.P.S. Vim-trainer mode is clever because it is the opposite approach to what one might expect. Imo, vim itself would benefit from this mode ;-) EKR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
