Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

Leo probably should allow arguments to @language, as in org mode 
> .
>  
> If we actually do this, we are likely going to want much of the org mode 
> arg machinery 
> .
>  
> Naturally, Leo settings may be able to handle much of the load.
>

#440  is the new 
issue.  Please discuss it there.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

Leo  should support the following extension of the execute-script command.  
> If there is no text selection, execute-script should use only the code from 
> the present insert point back to the previous @language directive (in the 
> node) and forward to the next @language directive.  In effect, this will 
> make @language directives work like org-mode's #+BEGIN_SRC  
>  lines.
>
 
#439  is the new 
issue.  Please discuss there.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 8:44:01 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

- Add p.drawer and related items
>>
>> 
>>
>
> A pop-up edit widget showing p.drawer will suffice. The import/export code 
> for .org files should set p.draws. p.drawer will likely be a Python 
> property, using uA's behind the scenes.
>

#414  Is the 
enhancement.  Please discuss there.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 8:44:01 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

*New item*: Support p.results.  Again, p.results will be a Python property, 
> using uA's behind the scenes.  Unlike p.drawer, results will not 
> necessarily be strings. Any picklable values should be allowed, and 
> possibly versioned sequences of values.
>

Two more new, related, items: 

1. Leo  should support the following extension of the execute-script 
command.  If there is no text selection, execute-script should use only the 
code from the present insert point back to the previous @language directive 
(in the node) and forward to the next @language directive.  In effect, this 
will make @language directives work like org-mode's #+BEGIN_SRC  
 lines.

2. Following up on this idea, Leo probably should allow arguments to 
@language, as in org mode 
.
 
If we actually do this, we are likely going to want much of the org mode 
arg machinery 
. 
Naturally, Leo settings may be able to handle much of the load.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:11:08 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:

Several new features do stand out:
>
> - Better integration with .org files, say by supporting .leo.org or 
> org.leo files.
>

Still important.
 

> - Replace attrib_edit by p.drawer. 
> 
>

Ditto. I think a pop-up edit widget showing p.drawer will suffice. The 
import/export code for .org files should set p.draws. p.drawer will likely 
be a Python property, using uA's behind the scenes.

*New item*: Support p.results.  Again, p.results will be a Python property, 
using uA's behind the scenes.  Unlike p.drawer, results will not 
necessarily be strings. Any picklable values should be allowed, and 
possibly versioned sequences of values.

- Support for pyzo's client/server based shell.  It this needed? Do 
> valuespace or python_console plugins suffice?
>

These seem like the wrong questions.  Simplicity of implementation is a red 
herring.  What matters is compatibility, especially with the Jupyter server 
and the IPython qt console . 

The qt console  page contains 
several important topics that are not reflected in the sidebar, including 
security 
and embedding the qt 
console in a qt application 
.
 
As a result, it's quite difficult to find these important words. Not sure 
whether this is read-the-docs problem or an oversight on the part of the 
Jupyter project.

None of the embedding options seem perfect. It's not clear what the way 
forward with IPython/Jupyter compatibility.  Leo already has support for 
IPython, and recent IPython distros have support for Jupyter, so maybe 
little or nothing is needed. But it would be cool to support the IPython 
In/Out nodes mechanism in Leo's body pane, with integrated support for 
graphics, magics, etc.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Maybe. Aiming Pharo was good enough in my case. Other languages could 
come after, using similar ideas to the ones in Org, Beaker or Jupyter. 
The nature of prototyping and refactoring can be different in Python, so 
I would let people with more experience on it take the final design 
decision. The core issue would be bringing interactivity, finally, to 
Leo for 5.6 release, but I don't know much on implementation details.


Cheers,

Offray


On 01/03/17 15:03, john lunzer wrote:
I think limiting it purely to python would be aiming too low. But even 
if it was it would likely be easy to extend via native subprocess 
package or the third-party sh package (one of my favorite packages).


On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 10:50:25 AM UTC-5, Offray Vladimir Luna 
Cárdenas wrote:


I agree. I'm now making table formating on org-mode and literate
computing on Grafoscopio. If I need to prioritize a feature that
would attract more diverse users to Leo would be literate
computing. That has been our case with Grafoscopio and our Data
Week hackathon+workshop[1] have participants from several life
venues and disciplines: Jorunalism, philosophy, communication
studies, developers, teachers, students, among others. They're
more attracted by the interactive data storytelling features that
by table formating.

[1] http://mutabit.com/dataweek/

If I would have to choose only one feature to be enabled in Leo
5.6 that would be literate computing (even if is limited "only" to
Python).

Cheers,

Offray

On 01/03/17 09:48, john lunzer wrote:

While it would be pretty great to have full auto-reformatting
ascii org-mode tables my inclination is that there are higher
priority org-mode features that should be tackled first (for
example, functionality enabling literate programming).

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-5, Arjan wrote:

> In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its
spreadsheet features) seems like a lot of work.

I use Leo primarily as an information manager (as well as for
writing LaTeX), and I very frequently need to capture some
tabular information. For me this would be a central feature
for Leo as PIM. (It's actually what kept me from switching
from Emacs/OrgMode to Leo for several months. Now I use Leo
anyway, but keep larger sections of tabular data in
LibreOffice Calc or SQLite, or use some plain text separator
in a node body. Both of these workarounds are suboptimal.)

So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn
out to be doable!

In any case, it's very nice to see all the recent activity.

Arjan


On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:55:53 PM UTC+1, Offray
Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:



On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:



On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna
Cárdenas  wrote:

Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach
taken by org-mode is client sever [1]. I have the
"feeling" is not, but I have not still read the papers.

[1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03


​I would consult Babels​docs
, not some
academic paper ;-)



Thanks. I will read both ;-).

Offray

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For more 

Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[john lunzer]

I think limiting it purely to python would be aiming too low. But even if 
it was it would likely be easy to extend via native subprocess package or 
the third-party sh package (one of my favorite packages).

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 10:50:25 AM UTC-5, Offray Vladimir Luna 
Cárdenas wrote:
>
> I agree. I'm now making table formating on org-mode and literate computing 
> on Grafoscopio. If I need to prioritize a feature that would attract more 
> diverse users to Leo would be literate computing. That has been our case 
> with Grafoscopio and our Data Week hackathon+workshop[1] have participants 
> from several life venues and disciplines: Jorunalism, philosophy, 
> communication studies, developers, teachers, students, among others. 
> They're more attracted by the interactive data storytelling features that 
> by table formating.
> [1] http://mutabit.com/dataweek/
>
> If I would have to choose only one feature to be enabled in Leo 5.6 that 
> would be literate computing (even if is limited "only" to Python).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> On 01/03/17 09:48, john lunzer wrote:
>
> While it would be pretty great to have full auto-reformatting ascii 
> org-mode tables my inclination is that there are higher priority org-mode 
> features that should be tackled first (for example, functionality enabling 
> literate programming).
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-5, Arjan wrote: 
>>
>> > In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its spreadsheet 
>> features) seems like a lot of work. 
>>
>> I use Leo primarily as an information manager (as well as for writing 
>> LaTeX), and I very frequently need to capture some tabular information. For 
>> me this would be a central feature for Leo as PIM. (It's actually what kept 
>> me from switching from Emacs/OrgMode to Leo for several months. Now I use 
>> Leo anyway, but keep larger sections of tabular data in LibreOffice Calc or 
>> SQLite, or use some plain text separator in a node body. Both of these 
>> workarounds are suboptimal.)
>>
>> So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn out to be 
>> doable!
>>
>> In any case, it's very nice to see all the recent activity.
>>
>> Arjan
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:55:53 PM UTC+1, Offray Vladimir Luna 
>> Cárdenas wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
>>> off...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
 Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by org-mode is 
 client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I have not still read 
 the papers.

 [1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03

>>> ​I would consult Babels​ docs 
>>> , not some academic paper 
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. I will read both ;-).
>>>
>>> Offray
>>>
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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

I agree. I'm now making table formating on org-mode and literate 
computing on Grafoscopio. If I need to prioritize a feature that would 
attract more diverse users to Leo would be literate computing. That has 
been our case with Grafoscopio and our Data Week hackathon+workshop[1] 
have participants from several life venues and disciplines: Jorunalism, 
philosophy, communication studies, developers, teachers, students, among 
others. They're more attracted by the interactive data storytelling 
features that by table formating.


[1] http://mutabit.com/dataweek/

If I would have to choose only one feature to be enabled in Leo 5.6 that 
would be literate computing (even if is limited "only" to Python).


Cheers,

Offray

On 01/03/17 09:48, john lunzer wrote:
While it would be pretty great to have full auto-reformatting ascii 
org-mode tables my inclination is that there are higher priority 
org-mode features that should be tackled first (for example, 
functionality enabling literate programming).


On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-5, Arjan wrote:

> In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its
spreadsheet features) seems like a lot of work.

I use Leo primarily as an information manager (as well as for
writing LaTeX), and I very frequently need to capture some tabular
information. For me this would be a central feature for Leo as
PIM. (It's actually what kept me from switching from Emacs/OrgMode
to Leo for several months. Now I use Leo anyway, but keep larger
sections of tabular data in LibreOffice Calc or SQLite, or use
some plain text separator in a node body. Both of these
workarounds are suboptimal.)

So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn out
to be doable!

In any case, it's very nice to see all the recent activity.

Arjan


On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:55:53 PM UTC+1, Offray Vladimir
Luna Cárdenas wrote:



On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:



On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna
Cárdenas  wrote:

Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken
by org-mode is client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is
not, but I have not still read the papers.

[1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03


​I would consult Babels​docs
, not some
academic paper ;-)



Thanks. I will read both ;-).

Offray

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[john lunzer]

While it would be pretty great to have full auto-reformatting ascii 
org-mode tables my inclination is that there are higher priority org-mode 
features that should be tackled first (for example, functionality enabling 
literate programming).

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-5, Arjan wrote:
>
> > In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its spreadsheet 
> features) seems like a lot of work.
>
> I use Leo primarily as an information manager (as well as for writing 
> LaTeX), and I very frequently need to capture some tabular information. For 
> me this would be a central feature for Leo as PIM. (It's actually what kept 
> me from switching from Emacs/OrgMode to Leo for several months. Now I use 
> Leo anyway, but keep larger sections of tabular data in LibreOffice Calc or 
> SQLite, or use some plain text separator in a node body. Both of these 
> workarounds are suboptimal.)
>
> So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn out to be 
> doable!
>
> In any case, it's very nice to see all the recent activity.
>
> Arjan
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:55:53 PM UTC+1, Offray Vladimir Luna 
> Cárdenas wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
>> off...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by org-mode is 
>>> client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I have not still read 
>>> the papers.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03
>>>
>> ​I would consult Babels​ docs 
>> , not some academic paper ;-)
>>
>>
>> Thanks. I will read both ;-).
>>
>> Offray
>>
>>

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Arjan  wrote:

> > In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its spreadsheet
> features) seems like a lot of work.
> So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn out to be
> doable!
>

​It's certainly doable.  tables.py is a start.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Arjan]

> In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its spreadsheet 
features) seems like a lot of work.

I use Leo primarily as an information manager (as well as for writing 
LaTeX), and I very frequently need to capture some tabular information. For 
me this would be a central feature for Leo as PIM. (It's actually what kept 
me from switching from Emacs/OrgMode to Leo for several months. Now I use 
Leo anyway, but keep larger sections of tabular data in LibreOffice Calc or 
SQLite, or use some plain text separator in a node body. Both of these 
workarounds are suboptimal.)

So I'm hoping it's important to others as well, and will turn out to be 
doable!

In any case, it's very nice to see all the recent activity.

Arjan


On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 4:55:53 PM UTC+1, Offray Vladimir Luna 
Cárdenas wrote:
>
>
>
> On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
> off...@riseup.net > wrote:
>
>> Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by org-mode is 
>> client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I have not still read 
>> the papers.
>>
>> [1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03
>>
> ​I would consult Babels​ docs , 
> not some academic paper ;-)
>
>
> Thanks. I will read both ;-).
>
> Offray
>
>

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

On 28/02/17 10:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:



On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
> wrote:


Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by
org-mode is client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I
have not still read the papers.

[1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03


​I would consult Babels​docs 
, not some academic paper ;-)




Thanks. I will read both ;-).

Offray

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

> Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by org-mode is
> client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I have not still read
> the papers.
>
> [1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03
>
​I would consult Babels​ docs ,
not some academic paper ;-)

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Just for curiosity, I wonder if the Babel approach taken by org-mode is 
client sever [1]. I have the "feeling" is not, but I have not still read 
the papers.


[1] https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v046i03

Cheers,

Offray


On 28/02/17 10:20, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 6:50 AM, john lunzer > wrote:


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:11:08 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream
wrote:


If we're looking forward Leo should go with the full client/server
based shell. This will facilitate a fully interactive Leo
environment. I think anything less would hamper future efforts
toward interactivity. This should also help knock out IPython
integration issues. Two birds with one (larger) stone.


​I agree.  I asked the question as part of due diligence.

Edward​
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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 6:50 AM, john lunzer  wrote:

> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:11:08 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>

If we're looking forward Leo should go with the full client/server based
> shell. This will facilitate a fully interactive Leo environment. I think
> anything less would hamper future efforts toward interactivity. This should
> also help knock out IPython integration issues. Two birds with one (larger)
> stone.
>

​I agree.  I asked the question as part of due diligence.

Edward​

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[john lunzer]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:11:08 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> - Support for pyzo's client/server based shell.  It this needed? Do 
> valuespace or python_console plugins suffice? I suspect pyzo's architecture 
> is better, but I'm not sure how much better.
>
> Edward
>

If we're looking forward Leo should go with the full client/server based 
shell. This will facilitate a fully interactive Leo environment. I think 
anything less would hamper future efforts toward interactivity. This should 
also help knock out IPython integration issues. Two birds with one (larger) 
stone.

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

On 27/02/17 10:59, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
> wrote:


On 27/02/17 09:11, Edward K. Ream wrote:

I am not interested in chasing after org-mode features, unless
people really want them. In particular, emulating org-mode
tables (including its spreadsheet features) seems like a lot
of work


I don't think chasing anyone is worthy, but neither look only
inside Leo to look for *inspiration* about what it can be.


​I agree. There is lots of inspiring software out there.


Yes like Mathematica, Smalltalk and Org-Mode ;-P (you replace them by 
dots in your edit, leaving only Python based interactive technologies, 
which as narrated by Fernando Perez, look for inspiration in systems 
like mathematica and other non-python stuff).




- Support for pyzo's client/server based shell.  It this
needed? Do valuespace or python_console plugins suffice? I
suspect pyzo's architecture is better, but I'm not sure how
much better.


Anything that can made Leo interactive (in the sense of IPython,
Jupyter,
​...​
) to make literate computing possible in this superb outlining
environment will be worthy. This has been kind of a long advocacy,
but I think that the best way to do it is by prototyping (in my
case with Grafoscopio).


​Good. We can discuss this further in the sprint.



OK.

Offray


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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

On 27/02/17 09:11, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> I am not interested in chasing after org-mode features, unless people
>> really want them. In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including its
>> spreadsheet features) seems like a lot of work
>
>
> I don't think chasing anyone is worthy, but neither look only inside Leo
> to look for *inspiration* about what it can be.
>

​I agree. There is lots of inspiring software out there.

- Support for pyzo's client/server based shell.  It this needed? Do
>> valuespace or python_console plugins suffice? I suspect pyzo's architecture
>> is better, but I'm not sure how much better.
>>
>
> Anything that can made Leo interactive (in the sense of IPython, Jupyter,
> ​...​
> ) to make literate computing possible in this superb outlining environment
> will be worthy. This has been kind of a long advocacy, but I think that the
> best way to do it is by prototyping (in my case with Grafoscopio).
>

​Good. We can discuss this further in the sprint.

Edward

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,


On 27/02/17 09:11, Edward K. Ream wrote:

[...]


I am not interested in chasing after org-mode features, unless people 
really want them. In particular, emulating org-mode tables (including 
its spreadsheet features) seems like a lot of work.



[...]

I don't think chasing anyone is worthy, but neither look only inside Leo 
to look for *inspiration* about what it can be.


- Support for pyzo's client/server based shell.  It this needed? Do 
valuespace or python_console plugins suffice? I suspect pyzo's 
architecture is better, but I'm not sure how much better.




Anything that can made Leo interactive (in the sense of IPython, 
Jupyter, Mathematica, Smalltalk or OrgMode) to make literate computing 
possible in this superb outlining environment will be worthy. This has 
been kind of a long advocacy, but I think that the best way to do it is 
by prototyping (in my case with Grafoscopio).


Cheers,

Offray

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Re: A sprint (real or virtual) about Leo 5.6

[Largo84]

One feature of Notepad++ that I would love to see emulated in Leo is auto 
word completion. Maybe that's already available, but it's not obvious to me 
where or how to enable it.

Rob


> And any other topics you might want to discuss.
>
> Yes, I've declared this to be quiet time, but *short *comments will be 
> welcome now.
>
> Edward
>

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