Re: [liberationtech] InvestigatingTrump.com

[ernesto ortiz]

Wow! we lost the opportunity to investigate Obama (specially in his last
days), or Clinton, or whoever in the Presidency; why not
investigatingPower.com, or PresidencyFiles.com or something like that?
It seems that these kind of nowadays fever has more to do with this
current Presidente than with a real interest for truth or decency or
solidarity or even the infosec... (I mean, it looks as a partisan or
ideological matter).



El 6/2/17 a las 5:39 a. m., Yosem Companys escribió:
> From: Michael Ravnitzky mailto:mike...@verizon.net>>
>
> Investigative Reporter Peter Lance has started a website called:
>
> http://www.InvestigatingTrump.com 
>
> Michael Ravnitzky
> mike...@verizon.net 
>
>

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Re: [liberationtech] InvestigatingTrump.com

[Yosem Companys]

The list is about using technology to promote democracy, development, and
help vulnerable populations, among other things. Some see U.S. President
Trump as inimical to these goals, especially with his immigrant ban, just
as there have been many conversations on the list about former U.S.
President Obama using technology for surveillance.

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:41 PM, Jay Cafasso  wrote:

> Stupid shit! This listserv is getting further and further away from what
> it's stated purpose was to be. What's next ? UFO sightings?
>
> Jay Cafasso
> 12559 N400E
> Wheatfield, IN 46392 USA
> Cell: 219.816.0722 <(219)%20816-0722>
> Fax: 610-673-8495 <(610)%20673-8495>
> Home GPS - Lat 41.19509, Long -86.96737
> SN# - 36508
> CWOP - EW5446
>
> www.facebook.com/jay.cafasso.7
> Robin Storm SIT - A WRN Ambassador
>
> "The last temptation is the greatest treason: To do the right deed for the
> wrong reason."   Murder in the Cathedral - St. Thomas Becket.
>
> Skywarn® and the Skywarn® logo are registered trademarks of the National
> Weather Service "used with permission".
>
> On Feb 5, 2017 22:39, "Yosem Companys"  wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Ravnitzky 
>>
>> Investigative Reporter Peter Lance has started a website called:
>>
>> http://www.InvestigatingTrump.com
>>
>> Michael Ravnitzky
>> mike...@verizon.net
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [liberationtech] InvestigatingTrump.com

[Jay Cafasso]

Stupid shit! This listserv is getting further and further away from what
it's stated purpose was to be. What's next ? UFO sightings?

Jay Cafasso
12559 N400E
Wheatfield, IN 46392 USA
Cell: 219.816.0722
Fax: 610-673-8495
Home GPS - Lat 41.19509, Long -86.96737
SN# - 36508
CWOP - EW5446

www.facebook.com/jay.cafasso.7
Robin Storm SIT - A WRN Ambassador

"The last temptation is the greatest treason: To do the right deed for the
wrong reason."   Murder in the Cathedral - St. Thomas Becket.

Skywarn® and the Skywarn® logo are registered trademarks of the National
Weather Service "used with permission".

On Feb 5, 2017 22:39, "Yosem Companys"  wrote:

> From: Michael Ravnitzky 
>
> Investigative Reporter Peter Lance has started a website called:
>
> http://www.InvestigatingTrump.com
>
> Michael Ravnitzky
> mike...@verizon.net
>
> --
> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations
> of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/
> mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change
> password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
>
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[liberationtech] InvestigatingTrump.com

[Yosem Companys]

From: Michael Ravnitzky 

Investigative Reporter Peter Lance has started a website called:

http://www.InvestigatingTrump.com

Michael Ravnitzky
mike...@verizon.net
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[liberationtech] [DUE TUESDAY] volunteer with an education + gender equality NGO in India this summer!!

[Anna von Wendorff]

Last chance to volunteer as part of a cohort of Stanford students working
with an NGO + school in India this summer! Financially supported by Haas.
Applications due Tuesday Feb 7th at bit.do/stanforddosti!


*Apply for Project DOSTI*
Application at bit.do/stanforddosti
View this email in your browser



Through a partnership between the Haas Center for Public Service, Project
Dosti gives up to eight Stanford undergraduate students the opportunity to
travel to India during the summer to volunteer with one of two partner
organizations (AGN School or Aarti Home). Partner organizations provide
room and board for the volunteers, and an International Service Grant from
the Haas Center for Public Service helps cover the costs of airfare, visas,
and further expenses. This is an incredible experience and a long-standing
program at Stanford.​ Application is due Feb 7th at 11:59.​
Click to View Application and Apply!

Students must commit to all three components of the program:

   - weekly spring meetings to prepare students for challenges and rewards
   they will encounter in India
   ​ as volunteers​
   - eight weeks of volunteer work with either the AGN School or Aarti Home
   during the Summer
   - participation in Project Dosti's outreach and recruitment efforts in
   the fall








*Aarti Home*
*Location: *Kadapa, Andhra Pradesh
*Primary Language: *Telegu (school administrators speak proficient English
and all children are instructed in English)
*Number of Volunteers: *3
*Trip Length: *8 weeks
*Background: *Aarti For Girls is an NGO that works at the grassroots level
to provide social, economic, and infrastructural help to underprivileged
women and children in the rural parts of Andhra Pradesh. Aarti provides a
home and a school for abandoned girls while also providing vocational
skills workshops and life skills classes for women.
*Summer Project: *Volunteers support Aarti by helping raise domestic and
international awareness of the cause. This is done by aiding in grant
writing, organizing programs and workshops, and helping with administrative
tasks. You will work directly with the head of the institution and other
influential women in the area to directly impact the women's rights
movement in that region.






*AGN School*
*Location: *Konganapuram, Tamil Nadu
*Primary Language:* Tamil (school administrators speak proficient English
and all children are instructed in English)
*Number of Volunteers: *3
*Trip Length: *8 weeks
*Background: *AGN is a school of approximately 2500 students, in the heart
of Tamil Nadu, halfway between Salem and Erode. About 200 of the students
board at the school; the rest come from the nearby villages.
*Summer Project: *The teachers and administration are all very flexible and
welcoming to any projects volunteers wish to undertake. Volunteers will
work with all grade levels (K-12), often on computer literacy, English
grammar, and pronunciation. During the spring, volunteers will develop
workshops to implement over the summer to grades K-12. The workshops should
model interactive teaching and emphasize creative and critical thinking.
Volunteers will live in a guest house on the AGN campus.

If you have any questions, please contact annav...@stanford.edu (Anna) or
spamp...@stanford.edu (Shivani).


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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Andrés Pacheco]

I'm all for more news, total, aren't we swamped with spam already as it is? So 
libre tech news from the twitter feed would help improve the ratio of spam to 
good stuff in our inbox.

Tagging is for sissies and I assume this list is full of superduper smart 
techies nerds that don't need no stinking badges to filter classify sort 
autodeletearchivefile incoming email, oh god how much I miss now emacs mhmail, 
"la última Coca-Cola del desierto, or isn't it?😈

BTW I'm unemployed starting 2 days gym now svdcresfy to join the resistance, 
drop me a live if you have something anywhere that you might think would 
interest me in the world of ICT4-dev-social/migrant/youth/anybody's Justice etc

Regards | Saludos,

Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes


> On Feb 5, 2017, at 2:59 PM, José María Mateos  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Feb 05, 2017 at 03:41:18PM +0100, carlo von lynX wrote:
>>> - I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all
>>> type   of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes
>>> into the   same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged
>>> so they can   be easily filtered.
>> 
>> Okay, but please start with a clone of the subscriptions
>> so we don't have to manually subscribe both to recreate
>> the status quo.
>> 
>> Also, please put an automatic Reply-To: in the announcements
>> that leads to the discussion list. I personally would still
>> merge both streams into the same folder because I find it
>> interesting whenever libtech people have a comment to add to
>> a piece of news.
> 
> Agree with this.
> 
>>>   - An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't
>>> it be   better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone
>>> could   start a discussion based on it.
>> 
>> I guess most of us absorb the "news" by just grasping what
>> the subject line says, then decide what is worth digging
>> into. A digest format would impede that kind of fast absorption.
>> Anyone who prefers digests can still choose the digest feature
>> of the mailing list software... right?
> 
> Yes, as long as the Twitter news is sent to a list that doesn't include the 
> discussions per se (or are flagged with a [Twitter] tag in the subject line 
> so they can be filtered.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> JMM.
> -- 
> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of 
> list guidelines will get you moderated: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, 
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Re: [liberationtech] Decentralization

[J.M. Porup]

On Sun, Feb 05, 2017 at 12:17:49PM -0800, Yosem Companys wrote:
> Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable so
> folks on this list who are struggling with pitching decentralization as a
> business model can succeed?

The centralized business model of Silicon Valley poses a threat to the
national sovereignty of many nations around the world. [0] To own a 
nation's data is to own that nation.

Pitching decentralized solutions to foreign governments--who grow weary
of the yoke of American empire--seems worth exploring.

Riding a tide of anti-Americanism in the Trump area may yield global
benefits in the form of truly decentralized solutions.

jmp

[0] https://medium.com/@toholdaquill/plunder-it-s-a-thing-b449485812bc
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Re: [liberationtech] Decentralization

[Aymeric Vitte]

Yes, already posted on this list:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/2017-February/016685.html
, for example 2.1.1 p22, very brief and sketched but plausible, unlike
many inventions where blockchains (who are unfortunately today
everything but decentralized) are supposed to solve everything, many
want to use them for free, but this is not possible, because of the
fees, about the same can apply for decentralized apps


Le 05/02/2017 à 21:17, Yosem Companys a écrit :
> Hi All,
>
> One of the problems may decentralized startups are confronting in
> Silicon Valley is that venture capitalists are telling them that they
> need to be centralized because there is no business model in
> decentralization. 
>
> For an example, think Diaspora: The original vision of Diaspora was a
> social network where each person could have his or her own node in the
> network and connect to others to share data similar to how Napster
> connected people to download music. But the data would live in your
> machine, not Facebook's.
>
> Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable
> so folks on this list who are struggling with pitching
> decentralization as a business model can succeed?
>
> Thanks,
> Yosem
>
>

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Re: [liberationtech] Decentralization

[Zachary Stickney]

please take me off this list, the unsubscribe didn't work



From: liberationtech  on behalf of 
R. Jason Cronk 
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 3:15 PM
To: liberationtech
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Decentralization

There are numerous issues with a "decentralized" company seeking funding. 
Investors seek some sort of monopolistic control which allows for rent seeking 
activity, which turns an investor's small investment into a larger return. 
That's why you often find investor looking for patentable ideas (government 
granted monopoly) or something that has traction in the market (potentially 
market monopoly, switching effects, network effects, economies of scale, etc). 
Decentralized startups almost always lack these.

Think about decentralization outside the world of software. As example, 
consider family farming versus  factory farming. "Hello Ms. Investor, I'm going 
to give chickens away and let everybody start their own family farm and sell 
local eggs to their local market." versus "Hello Ms. Investor, I've been 
granted a patent on my process to artificially grow eggs in a lab. Nobody will 
be able to compete with me in the egg market for the next 17 years." As an 
investor, where are you going to earn a return?

This funding problem is part of the reason, in my opinion, for Bitcoin's 
relative slow adoption curve as a payment mechanism. Nobody has an incentive to 
push it in the market because they ultimately won't be able to reap the 
rewards. If I'm Paypal, I can give everyone $10 in their account to send to 
other people, until I get a million users. If I'm a bitcoin wallet provider and 
I tried that, everyone would get their $10 in bitcoin and go to another wallet 
provider.

That being said, there are some potential business models for businesses 
pushing decentralization

1) Provide a centralized service to the decentralized businesses. All 
McDonald's look the same because they are centrally controlled (though not 
centrally owned). Many Chinese take out menus look the same not because they 
are centrally controlled but because just a handful of companies produce those 
menus.
2) Find a way to extract rent from the decentralized businesses. The technology 
for matching passengers and drivers could easily be decentralized for an Uber 
competitor but people want consistency. The competitor could license their name 
to driver's (and validate those drivers for criminal background checks for 
instance). So any driver could join the network but you can pay slightly more 
to have one that has been verified. Of course their might be competition 
setting in but there is where market penetration comes in. I even say I'm going 
to call Uber when I mean Lyft.
3) Best in class and support. Linux is open source software. Anyone can run it. 
People still pay Red Hat for support.
4) Control the initial supply of something. Anyone can mine ZCash but the 
company has a quantity of pre-mined coins. Anyone can grow marijuana but if you 
create a new strain and get demand there, you have the first seeds to sell.

That's all I can think of immediately. It is not an easy problem.

Jason






On 2017-02-05 15:17, Yosem Companys wrote:
Hi All,

One of the problems may decentralized startups are confronting in
Silicon Valley is that venture capitalists are telling them that they
need to be centralized because there is no business model in
decentralization.

For an example, think Diaspora: The original vision of Diaspora was a
social network where each person could have his or her own node in the
network and connect to others to share data similar to how Napster
connected people to download music. But the data would live in your
machine, not Facebook's.

Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable
so folks on this list who are struggling with pitching
decentralization as a business model can succeed?

Thanks,
Yosem
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Re: [liberationtech] Decentralization

[R. Jason Cronk]

There are numerous issues with a "decentralized" company seeking
funding. Investors seek some sort of monopolistic control which allows
for rent seeking activity, which turns an investor's small investment
into a larger return. That's why you often find investor looking for
patentable ideas (government granted monopoly) or something that has
traction in the market (potentially market monopoly, switching effects,
network effects, economies of scale, etc). Decentralized startups almost
always lack these. 

Think about decentralization outside the world of software. As example,
consider family farming versus  factory farming. "Hello Ms. Investor,
I'm going to give chickens away and let everybody start their own family
farm and sell local eggs to their local market." versus "Hello Ms.
Investor, I've been granted a patent on my process to artificially grow
eggs in a lab. Nobody will be able to compete with me in the egg market
for the next 17 years." As an investor, where are you going to earn a
return? 

This funding problem is part of the reason, in my opinion, for Bitcoin's
relative slow adoption curve as a payment mechanism. Nobody has an
incentive to push it in the market because they ultimately won't be able
to reap the rewards. If I'm Paypal, I can give everyone $10 in their
account to send to other people, until I get a million users. If I'm a
bitcoin wallet provider and I tried that, everyone would get their $10
in bitcoin and go to another wallet provider. 

That being said, there are some potential business models for businesses
pushing decentralization 

1) Provide a centralized service to the decentralized businesses. All
McDonald's look the same because they are centrally controlled (though
not centrally owned). Many Chinese take out menus look the same not
because they are centrally controlled but because just a handful of
companies produce those menus. 
2) Find a way to extract rent from the decentralized businesses. The
technology for matching passengers and drivers could easily be
decentralized for an Uber competitor but people want consistency. The
competitor could license their name to driver's (and validate those
drivers for criminal background checks for instance). So any driver
could join the network but you can pay slightly more to have one that
has been verified. Of course their might be competition setting in but
there is where market penetration comes in. I even say I'm going to call
Uber when I mean Lyft. 
3) Best in class and support. Linux is open source software. Anyone can
run it. People still pay Red Hat for support. 
4) Control the initial supply of something. Anyone can mine ZCash but
the company has a quantity of pre-mined coins. Anyone can grow marijuana
but if you create a new strain and get demand there, you have the first
seeds to sell. 

That's all I can think of immediately. It is not an easy problem. 

Jason 

On 2017-02-05 15:17, Yosem Companys wrote: 

> Hi All,
> 
> One of the problems may decentralized startups are confronting in
> Silicon Valley is that venture capitalists are telling them that they
> need to be centralized because there is no business model in
> decentralization. 
> 
> For an example, think Diaspora: The original vision of Diaspora was a
> social network where each person could have his or her own node in the
> network and connect to others to share data similar to how Napster
> connected people to download music. But the data would live in your
> machine, not Facebook's.
> 
> Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable
> so folks on this list who are struggling with pitching
> decentralization as a business model can succeed?
> 
> Thanks,
> Yosem
 -- 
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Re: [liberationtech] Can you confirm these are not best practices for handling disclosure?

[Zak Rogoff]

On 02/02/2017 07:30 PM, liberationtech-requ...@lists.stanford.edu wrote:
> Message: 14 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 11:24:01 -0500 From: Rich Kulawiec
>  To: liberationtech 
> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Can you confirm these are not best
> practices for handling disclosure? Message-ID:
> <20170202162401.ga4...@gsp.org> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 05:49:08PM -0500, Zak Rogoff
> wrote:
>> > Is anyone who's knowledgeable about disclosure policies able to take a
>> > look at it and share your thoughts?
>> > 
>> > To me, it looks like it's not much of a protection for the researchers,
>> > because it's totally voluntary and apparently allows companies to ignore
>> > it if they make such arbitrary judgements as that the security
>> > researcher didn't give them a "reasonable" amount of time between
>> > private and public disclosure.
> You're correct.  This policy is worthless, as are -- to a good first
> approximation -- all the "responsible disclosure" policies I've seen.

Thanks for your reply, Rich. It's a pity, though not surprising, that
this kind of policy is the norm.

How far afield from major software companies do you have to go to find
one with a policy about handling researchers that is actually ethical
and productive? What are some examples of better policies?

-- 
Zak Rogoff // Campaigns Manager
Free Software Foundation
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[José María Mateos]

On Sun, Feb 05, 2017 at 03:41:18PM +0100, carlo von lynX wrote:

- I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all
type   of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes
into the   same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged
so they can   be easily filtered.


Okay, but please start with a clone of the subscriptions
so we don't have to manually subscribe both to recreate
the status quo.

Also, please put an automatic Reply-To: in the announcements
that leads to the discussion list. I personally would still
merge both streams into the same folder because I find it
interesting whenever libtech people have a comment to add to
a piece of news.


Agree with this.


   - An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't
it be   better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone
could   start a discussion based on it.


I guess most of us absorb the "news" by just grasping what
the subject line says, then decide what is worth digging
into. A digest format would impede that kind of fast absorption.
Anyone who prefers digests can still choose the digest feature
of the mailing list software... right?


Yes, as long as the Twitter news is sent to a list that doesn't include 
the discussions per se (or are flagged with a [Twitter] tag in the 
subject line so they can be filtered.)


Cheers,

JMM.
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[liberationtech] How to get free wifi on public networks

[Yosem Companys]

This short tutorial describes a few methods for gaining access to the
internet, a basic human right
,
from public wireless networks.

This tutorial has been tested on Mac, should work on Linux, and hasn’t been
tested on Windows.
Preparation

Make sure you do this step *before* you are stuck without Internet access.

   1. Install Python pip .
   2. Make a copy of this repository
    and install dependencies for
   the script we will be using:

git clone https://github.com/kylemcdonald/FreeWifi
cd FreeWifi && pip install -r requirements.txt

How to get additional time

If you had free internet access but your time has run out, the first thing
to try is open an incognito/private window. Here are instructions for a few
browsers:

   - Chrome
   
(mobile
   and desktop)
   - Safari for iOS 
   - Safari for Mac 
   - Microsoft Edge
   


An incognito/private window will temporarily clear any cookies that may
have been used for tracking how much time you spent online, making you look
like a “new user” and allowing you to log into the wireless portal again.

Unfortunately, most systems track MAC addresses instead of cookies. A MAC
address is a unique identifier assigned to every network interface. This
means you need to get a new MAC address to get additional time.
Fortunately, MAC addresses can be changed in software, without swapping the
hardware. The spoof-mac command line utility makes this easy by entering sudo
spoof-mac randomize Wi-Fi. If the command fails to run, try entering spoof-mac
list --wifi to check what the name of your wireless device is first, and
use that manually. After randomizing your MAC, try logging into the
wireless portal again. When you're done using the Internet, run sudo
spoof-mac reset Wi-Fi to reset your MAC address.

Note that MAC address spoofing may be interpreted as an illegal activity
depending on why you do it. In some cases it is certainly not illegal:
recent mobile operating systems like iOS 8+ and Android 6+ automatically
randomize their MAC address when searching for wireless networks to avoid
being tracked. But when Aaron Swartz liberated JSTOR
, MAC address
spoofing was claimed as a signal of intention to commit a crime.
How to get free access

If the network is open, but you can’t get access for some reason, you can
also try spoofing the MAC address of a device that is already using the
network. To the router, your device and the other device will look like one
device. This can cause some minor problems if they interrupt each other,
but for light browsing it usually works out fine.

To find the MAC addresses of other devices using the network, first you
need to connect to the network. You don’t need to have Internet access,
just a connection. First, on Mac OS run the command sudo chmod o+r
/dev/bpf*once
to make sure you can sniff wireless data (you need to do this again if you
restart your computer).

Then in your terminal, run the command python wifi-users.py. You should see
a progress bar immediately:

SSID: nonoinflight
Gateway: 00:e0:4b:22:96:d9
100%|██| 1000/1000 [00:46<00:00, 21.46it/s]
Total of 5 user(s):
27:35:96:a8:66:7f   6359 bytes
36:fe:83:9c:35:eb   9605 bytes
65:01:3c:cc:20:e8   17306 bytes
8c:6f:11:2c:f0:ee   20515 bytes
0a:4f:b2:b8:e8:56   71541 bytes

If there isn’t much traffic on the network, it might take longer. If it’s
taking too long, type CTRL-C to cancel the sniffing and print whatever
results are available. Finally, we want to spoof one of these MAC
addresses. For example, in this case we would enter sudo spoof-mac set
0a:4f:b2:b8:e8:56 Wi-Fi to try spoofing the address with the most traffic
(they probably have a connection).

After running this command, try to access the Internet. If you don't have a
connection, try the next MAC in the list. If your Internet connection drops
out while using this MAC address, try disconnecting and reconnecting to the
wireless network. Note that the original user of the MAC you copied may
experience these same connection drop outs if you are both actively using
the network.
How it works

wifi-users.py uses tcpdump to collect wireless packets. Then we look
through these packets for any hints of the MAC address (BSSID) of our
wireless network. Finally, we look for data packets that mention a user's
MAC as well as the network BSSID (or the network gateway), and take note of
that MAC using some amount of data. Then we sort the user's MACs by the
total amount of data and print them out

[liberationtech] Decentralization

[Yosem Companys]

Hi All,

One of the problems may decentralized startups are confronting in Silicon
Valley is that venture capitalists are telling them that they need to be
centralized because there is no business model in decentralization.

For an example, think Diaspora: The original vision of Diaspora was a
social network where each person could have his or her own node in the
network and connect to others to share data similar to how Napster
connected people to download music. But the data would live in your
machine, not Facebook's.

Can anyone think of decentralized business models that are profitable so
folks on this list who are struggling with pitching decentralization as a
business model can succeed?

Thanks,
Yosem
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Yosem Companys]

>
> Okay, but please start with a clone of the subscriptions
> so we don't have to manually subscribe both to recreate
> the status quo.
>

Will do.


> I guess most of us absorb the "news" by just grasping what
> the subject line says, then decide what is worth digging
> into. A digest format would impede that kind of fast absorption.
> Anyone who prefers digests can still choose the digest feature
> of the mailing list software... right?
>

A lot of subscribers complain about the format of the digest mode. But
Stanford mailman doesn't give me the capability to change it.
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Yosem Companys]

Also, I will see if I can send a digest of the Liberationtech Twitter
stream once a day to the list...

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Yosem Companys 
wrote:

> My take on this:
>>
>> - I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all type
>>  of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes into the
>>  same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged so they can   be
>> easily filtered.
>>   - An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't it be
>>  better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone could   start
>> a discussion based on it.
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>>
>> JMM.
>>
>
> Right now we have an events list, a jobs list, a cfp (call for papers)
> list, and the main list. So the events list is kind of an announcement
> list. But not everyone knows about it, so for Stanford events, we tend to
> post them to the main list.
>
> If there is no opposition, we could replicate the list of subscribers of
> the main list and add them to the events list, with the caveat that it is
> an announcements list.
>
> Alternatively, we could get rid of the events list, and replicate the list
> of subscribers of the main list and add them to a new list that would be
> called liberationtech-announcements.
>
> What do you all think?
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Yosem Companys]

>
> My take on this:
>
> - I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all type
>  of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes into the
>  same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged so they can   be
> easily filtered.
>   - An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't it be
>  better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone could   start
> a discussion based on it.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
>
> JMM.
>

Right now we have an events list, a jobs list, a cfp (call for papers)
list, and the main list. So the events list is kind of an announcement
list. But not everyone knows about it, so for Stanford events, we tend to
post them to the main list.

If there is no opposition, we could replicate the list of subscribers of
the main list and add them to the events list, with the caveat that it is
an announcements list.

Alternatively, we could get rid of the events list, and replicate the list
of subscribers of the main list and add them to a new list that would be
called liberationtech-announcements.

What do you all think?
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Re: [liberationtech] Liberationtech List Reminder

[Yosem Companys]

>
> Very related to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13571893
>
> IMDb is deleting its message boards on Feb 20
> http://www.imdb.com/board/announcement
>
> Cheers,
>
> JMM.


We had a same experience with the draft for General Clark in 2004. Yahoo
Groups deleted our message board archives.

Yosem
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[carlo von lynX]

On Sun, Feb 05, 2017 at 08:34:45AM -0500, José María Mateos wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 04, 2017 at 08:27:39PM -0800, Yosem Companys wrote:
> >Well, I was thinking that this list would be for discussion. The other for
> >the sharing and discussing of news articles. Not every discussion is
> >initiated by news articles on this list.

Most conversations are triggered by news, however.
I'm actually fine with the way it is. News is
usually what started as a new thread, so I don't
have difficulty distinguishing the two.

> - I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all
> type   of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes
> into the   same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged
> so they can   be easily filtered.

Okay, but please start with a clone of the subscriptions
so we don't have to manually subscribe both to recreate
the status quo.

Also, please put an automatic Reply-To: in the announcements
that leads to the discussion list. I personally would still
merge both streams into the same folder because I find it
interesting whenever libtech people have a comment to add to
a piece of news.

>- An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't
> it be   better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone
> could   start a discussion based on it.

I guess most of us absorb the "news" by just grasping what
the subject line says, then decide what is worth digging
into. A digest format would impede that kind of fast absorption.
Anyone who prefers digests can still choose the digest feature
of the mailing list software... right?

> My 2 cents.

+2

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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Cristina [efecto99]]

me too

On 05/02/17 10:45, Jorge SoydelBierzo wrote:
> I agree
>
>
> My take on this:
>
> - I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all type 
>of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes into the 
>same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged so they can 
>be easily filtered.
>
> - An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't it be 
>better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone could 
>start a discussion based on it.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> JMM.
>
>

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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[Jorge SoydelBierzo]

I agree

El 5 de febrero de 2017 14:34:45 CET, "José María Mateos"  
escribió:
>On Sat, Feb 04, 2017 at 08:27:39PM -0800, Yosem Companys wrote:
>>Well, I was thinking that this list would be for discussion. The other
>for
>>the sharing and discussing of news articles. Not every discussion is
>>initiated by news articles on this list.
>>
>>Also, if you look at our Twitter stream, we often send tweets every 10
>>minutes a day, so it provide those who do not want to use Twitter to
>see a
>>review of the day's news right in their mailbox.
>>
>>We could take a vote, but I rather let others share their ideas and
>>concerns before we do so.
>
>My take on this:
>
>- I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all type
>
>of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes into the 
> same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged so they can 
>   be easily filtered.
>   
>- An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't it be 
>   better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone could 
>   start a discussion based on it.
>
>My 2 cents.
>
>JMM.
>
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>Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
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>Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator
>at compa...@stanford.edu.
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Re: [liberationtech] Liberationtech List Reminder

[José María Mateos]

On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 07:26:32AM -0500, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

Of course there are always people who rush to the latest greatest
thing (e.g., Slack appears to be popular right now) because it's new
and shiny, but those come and go, and they depend on the vagaries of
the companies behind them.  Many painful object lessons in the
impermanence of such things may be found at http://archiveteam.org
-- whose contributors have invested heavily in attempts to mitigate
the consequences of very poor decision-making by others. [1]


Very related to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13571893

IMDb is deleting its message boards on Feb 20
http://www.imdb.com/board/announcement

Cheers,

JMM.
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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[José María Mateos]

On Sat, Feb 04, 2017 at 08:27:39PM -0800, Yosem Companys wrote:

Well, I was thinking that this list would be for discussion. The other for
the sharing and discussing of news articles. Not every discussion is
initiated by news articles on this list.

Also, if you look at our Twitter stream, we often send tweets every 10
minutes a day, so it provide those who do not want to use Twitter to see a
review of the day's news right in their mailbox.

We could take a vote, but I rather let others share their ideas and
concerns before we do so.


My take on this:

- I'd rather have two mailing lists only: one for discussions (all type 
  of discussions) and one for announcements. If everything goes into the 
  same list, at least have the announcements clearly tagged so they can 
  be easily filtered.
  
- An e-mail with news every 10 minutes may be too much. Wouldn't it be 
  better to have a daily news digest of some sort? Then anyone could 
  start a discussion based on it.


My 2 cents.

JMM.

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Re: [liberationtech] Should we start a new Stanford liberationtech-news list?

[F LM]

Personally, I would prefer to keep just one list for everything.

FL

> On 05-02-2017, at 01:27, Yosem Companys  wrote:
> 
> Well, I was thinking that this list would be for discussion. The other for 
> the sharing and discussing of news articles. Not every discussion is 
> initiated by news articles on this list.
> 
> Also, if you look at our Twitter stream, we often send tweets every 10 
> minutes a day, so it provide those who do not want to use Twitter to see a 
> review of the day's news right in their mailbox.
> 
> We could take a vote, but I rather let others share their ideas and concerns 
> before we do so.
> 
> Thanks,
> Yosem
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 3:39 PM, José María Mateos  
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 08:04:48PM -0800, Yosem Companys wrote:
>>> Building on Rich's suggestions, should we create a new liberationtech-news
>>> list for sharing Liberationtech news?
>> 
>> How would that list be different from this one? Would all discussions be 
>> moved to that other list and this left for announcements?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> JMM.
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> 
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