Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
fl...@pgm.com writes: >Thanks to Ali-Reza for reposting Dr. Dey's reply. > >If you are looking for lowest-cost short to medium range >communications using ham radio, Android phones are not the answer. You >still need VHF or UHF radio hardware. > >There are at least 20 radio manufacturers in China that make small >variations on a common design of VHF transceiver, that can be bought >for less than USD 50 each (often much less). Radio repeaters can be >built using these same transceivers. There is also a huge surplus of >transceivers in the US that have been made obsolete by the FCC's >narrow band mandate, that you can buy for a few dollars, particularly >interesting for higher power mobile radios. Shipping will be your >major expense there unless you are able to do a freight container full >at once. > >The biggest problem in most countries is almost always getting legal >permission to use amateur radio for other public purposes. Solve that >problem for your group, and find out what frequencies and power levels >are permissible, and the technical issues are much easier. Because it's related to the same problem domain, I'll point out: The OpenBTS project is an open-source software-based GSM access point, that allows people to use standard consumer GSM cell phones to communicate in a network that anyone (with the right hardware) can set up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBTS http://openbts.blogspot.com/ http://wush.net/trac/rangepublic http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/wiki/OpenBTS (I'm not sure whether the burden of having the right hardware for OpenBTS is lower or higher than the burden of having ham radio tranceivers.) HTH, -Karl -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Thanks to Ali-Reza for reposting Dr. Dey's reply. If you are looking for lowest-cost short to medium range communications using ham radio, Android phones are not the answer. You still need VHF or UHF radio hardware. There are at least 20 radio manufacturers in China that make small variations on a common design of VHF transceiver, that can be bought for less than USD 50 each (often much less). Radio repeaters can be built using these same transceivers. There is also a huge surplus of transceivers in the US that have been made obsolete by the FCC's narrow band mandate, that you can buy for a few dollars, particularly interesting for higher power mobile radios. Shipping will be your major expense there unless you are able to do a freight container full at once. The biggest problem in most countries is almost always getting legal permission to use amateur radio for other public purposes. Solve that problem for your group, and find out what frequencies and power levels are permissible, and the technical issues are much easier. -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
No one seems to have answered the OP's query. Yes, there are varying degrees of support within the amateur radio community for doing actual public good with the technology but that's a separate problem. The short answer is no, the various software packages for Android, iPhone, Blackberry etc. do nothing on their own. They use separate dedicated ham radio hardware for the physical layer, and most of the apps are for digital messages, not voice. There are various transceivers available for various propagation conditions but all are external to the phone. The legal question can only be answered specifically in the region where you are working. Users must always be licensed amateur radio operators. In general amateur radio is OK for any use where the radio operator is not paid in any way for his or her communication over the radio. A few years ago in the US, FCC had to issue a narrow exemption for employees of private hospitals, for instance, who may now participate in disaster drills etc. so long as the event is government-sponsored. -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/07/2013 01:58 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote: > Can you give me some examples of what you mean? I have been in touch with a number of ham radio communities that are working on community wireless-type projects which either have solvable problems but do not want any help (or solutions), or which are only interested in building them for their use and no one else's. Either way, they have been, to date, uninterested in collaborating or in opening the networks they build for anyone else to use. Hence, 'uninterested in liberation technologies' (of the sorts talked about on this mailing list). > I would not say we amateur radio people are all human rights > activists, but most I will grant you that. > people I have worked with have been involved in using amateur > radio for public > good. Most of the ones I have met have been interested in amateur radio, but I honestly cannot speak to the number who have explicitly mentioned working for the public good. The ARES and RACES members I know near home certainly are (they are why I studied for my ticket, incidentallly). > Like I said, I am obviously biased, but I have not encountered the > "ham culture" you mention, but I don't doubt it exists. I have encountered it where I live, unfortunately. I know there are hams out there who work otherwise, and would very much like to meet more of them. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS] Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/ PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ "Hawaiian shirts should cause pain upon the mind." --Sean Kennedy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlE6FI4ACgkQO9j/K4B7F8GloACglaFoEQTMpYUVR/mNVL+VDulO 8RkAn1djjfhYVWB6dfQnZ/VFCWuvkCOg =WmgG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
[liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/07/2013 07:31 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > Nice, Erich. > > In a sense, radio waves are the -ultimate- in liberation, crossing > national boundaries in (single or multiple) bounds. That may be a subrosa reason governments fight so hard to control them. That is clearly why some shortwave broadcasts are jammed. t's why the amateur service was cut off during WWII. That's also my conclusion about why amateurs are not allowed to use codes and ciphers (speaking of US here). Jim and all, As to krypto. Well, these are historic reasons. BUT: We are licensed to use _any_ digital protocol, as long as we open the "protocol" and the "compression" algorithm. So we may broadcast signalsd Whats on now, here? Yesterday the Vienna hacker space Metalab was crowded with dozens of haXors and a few older ham radio _geeks_. One of the latter held a lecture on some basics of amateur radio. Everybody of those listening will do their all bands 100 Watt exams, that allows them operating from around 40 CEPT countries without notice for three months. USA included. 50 other Metalab haXors already have their diploma. All between 20 and 35. Next came OE1DNS [early thirties, licence three years ago] and had a screenshow on extraterrestrial broadcasting. satellites, moon bouncing and so on. OE4DNS and OE1RFC [note the callsign suffices pse] wert the digital operators. OE1HWS coordinated that all. This dear OM is twice the age of the others. At the CCC Camp in 2011 the first ham haXor group ever here mounted an enormous home brew double yagi on an old water pipe that had rested on the "graveyard of undead antennas and masts" in my garden for years. Add a rotor and a Volkswagen bus containing a transceiver plus a 1,5 KW power amp. Thus the Metalab OPs hit the moon on 144 MHz using the "officially allowed amp out" & a digital protocol named WSJT by K1JT - - a nobel prize winner - for space comms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hooton_Taylor,_Jr. These signals from CCC Camp broadcast from a former Soviet Air Base were successfully "restaurated". WSJT sports AFAIR eight different sorts of error correction. And many amateurs are so blasted conservative politically, but I don't know why that is! Can help here. Estimated 30-40+ [my estimate] percent of US ham ops are military or deeply entwined via military contractors. Some of them handle that pretty openly on qrz.com. This is the most influential ham social network. Russian OPs, next biggest group on the air. Incredibly strong signals. Military PAs. Half a dozen stations in my logfiles [I dont run many QSOs] from 2010 oan have been located less than 20 km away from November Sierra Alpha premises in Maryland. Ten times more related in West Virginia. This is experimentation, and tinkering, and hacking, and potentially liberation, but in the electronics sphere. +1 An hour ago I was discussing the use of a mini vertical network analyzer [400 USD Java prog running on Linux too] via OE1XUU vhf repeater here with other hams/haX0rs . All of us round 50 Km were talking to each other using less than 5 Watts either in Handsets or @ stations in QTH . All those on this list licensend might come in to talk to us @ the NightOWLS QSO starting from 23 hours UTC. You only need an echolink capable amateur radio repeater somewhere near to you and a 5 Watt handset sporting numeric inputs. Thus you can set up full scale _conference call_ between - say - San Francisco and Vienna in a minute. The ham radio echolink voice repeaters are linked via the net. There is a ton of potential that should not be ignored. Right. I could hold lecture on how to refurbish an antique 6 meter CB aluminium monster to play on 5 shortwave bands [20 to meters to ten] without much tuning in the shack using a matchbox [antenna tuner]. 500 Watts are realistic now using junkyard hardware. Made it into New Zealand where I could not reach despite my mighty longwire "fixed beam" . There is a visible gap in the diagram partially filled by the vertical. By WE I should have completed my 2nd 42 meter non moveable beam to another directon namely SSW straight. 73 de Erich OE3EMB > > Much as an interest in sci-fi may lead to certain kinds of > mindsets, experimentation and curiosity, an interest in amateur > radio is frequently correlated with an interest in other people, > other cultures, science, engineering, electronics, software and > other skills that can be immensely valuable to our efforts. > > There are certainly lots more folks on the list who have licenses, > and there are lots of amateur operators who aid liberation > technologies without advertising it. > > ^ CyberSpark.net -Keeping the > flame of free speech and human rights alive online > > On Mar 7, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "Erich M." wrote: > >> On 03/07/2013 09:26 AM, Griffin Boyce wrote: >>> How far is the distance being covered, and in what kind of >>> terrain (flat pla
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Eugen, On 7 Mar 2013, at 08:02, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 09:36:41PM +, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote: > >> I have one answer: Amateur radio. Forget mobile phone networks. Amateur >> radio is cheap, very durable and will provide you with the functions you >> need, and if you can get access to amateur radio operators in your country, >> you may have free support for the life of your project! > > Hams need to be registered Correct. One barrier to entry. But if the help workers are certified this is a non-issue. > , may only communicate with other hams "By the law" true, but in circumstance where is makes sense they can (and often do) communicate with other parties. I have in the past communicated with coastguard stations (very briefly) and mountain rescue teams (see below). > (i.e. may not give access to third parties, and especially > pass traffic of third parites) and Not fully true. I have been involved in a number of activations when living in Ireland where an amateur radio was used to pass safety messages for mountain rescue teams that were providing safety cover for cross mountain outdoor challenges. In this case we communicated with 2 groups which provided a national service for safety in mountainous areas. Messages can and regularly passed for 3rd parties as long as they are not of commercial nature. Amateur radio operators in Ireland (and I am sure other countries I would point to this audio interview outlining the work amateur radio ops did during the September 11 attacks in New York https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpRSQsE9VfA I would also point to this audio recording of amateur radio operators passing 3rd party messages during the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989. http://www.kernsanalysis.com/loma/loma2.mp3 And I would not say this is specific to Ireland/Europe. Amateur radio is licensed and administered by the ITU. I'm not saying their control is all correct, but there is a framework, legislation and policy. > may not pass encrypted traffic. Again yes by law. And I would agree with that. > You might get away with end to end encryption at application layer, > but this would be only tolerated at best. > > The whole ham culture and liberation technologies do not really > mix. Again, like I said in my previous mail, I don't fully understand what you mean by that. My point is not that amateur radio is the answer to everything, it was merely that if there is a decision of mobile phone networks doing something that will not directly make them profits, that it is a good alternative to investigate. regards, Bernard - -- Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJROOgGAAoJENsz1IO7MIrrVf4H/iCoLP36B6b1gtL6QucCcuLt hxLRYRG/KDPTpVYSWPAW/2xfkn5EiDoEtrhZfF4mrUBlyKyfV/5ln71VbLTs6tsQ Mz5TyvgsI4eFSFG5A5WxLtW0WBTpd07L1VVvFBt+PlnFoGHmec89uLSNNLpx5vTy 1HI7NxAXsl39PJZLUGGHz4JyV/m0UdSd7/PpSVM7Nj7uizOrJgz3dyuP/DoP5p/v VJVHPbJ4VMU2CewsPtJ7y4eYNKWPzaT97X3zfohnEyfi5YSJu87OV+cEsXV88UCz qWiSSmzeRe+g+BKPCy7O3Z71VQ8v3HUCkAFnd4QRerUzvoGHPYHH1EzdBiiRY10= =kvt9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
They exist a lot of digital modes used by the amateur radio operators, but the speeds are very low, from 31,25 baud to 64bps for the traditional modes. (PSK, MFSK, PACTOR, RTTY are mostly used, obviously for chatting, while the APRS is mainly used for the identification and localization of a transmitter and weather data) Here you can see an example of the modus operandi of digital modes (in this case is PSK) (they exist obviously interfaces more simple): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lSXs4p7HUg --- HInternet actually is my preferred mode, its about the implementation of wireless data networks over amateur radio frequencies called High-Speed Multimedia Radio (HSMM): I know this Project: http://www.hsmm-mesh.org/ Related articles: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/QST_Jul_2006_p84.pdf http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/High%20Speed%20Multimedia%20Radio.pdf (I didn't know about the Project Byzantium, I'll read, very interesting) --- With ATV (Amateur television) it is possible to broadcast also video and audio, like the satellites do. --- The problem with amateur radio as already mentioned are related to the privacy, security and mainly obtaining a stable permanent connectivity. The Licensing Exams are not difficult and the contents are very interesting. On the web is available a huge amount of documentation and also apps that can help you obtain the call sign. --- For my experience Amateur radio it was a kind of liberation technology, I use it 30 years ago without licence, and it was indeed the first global social network that I participate, I have a collection of confirmed communications, letters, photographs and many other gadgets received from all over the world. For me Wireless it means Freedom. Actually I have a full licence, and I encourage everyone to go on. With the licence you can develop solutions, make connectivity experiments and tests, otherwise legally impossible. I believe that in the future the use of radio frequencies for MESH networks (also with the use of aerial swarms 3D printed) they will provide a sustainable Internet connectivity solution for the rural areas. Actually is very important to sustain policies promoting open spectrum and unlicensed spectrum for Internet connectivity. Hoping that I was a little bit helpful Kind regards carlo Il 3/7/13 5:38 PM, The Doctor ha scritto: > On 03/07/2013 03:02 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > > > The whole ham culture and liberation technologies do not really > > mix. > > Unfortunately, this has been my experience as well. > > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hea Doctor, On 7 Mar 2013, at 16:38, The Doctor wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 03/07/2013 03:02 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > >> The whole ham culture and liberation technologies do not really >> mix. > > Unfortunately, this has been my experience as well. Can you give me some examples of what you mean? I would argue thats the ham culture that you have seen in your country/city/area. Like any "technology oriented" area there are people who focus on the technology instead of its use. I would not say we amateur radio people are all human rights activists, but most people I have worked with have been involved in using amateur radio for public good. I would point to the whole ARES/AREN/RACE area (amateur radio emergency services) networks, the use of amateur radio in natural diasters, the use of amateur radio during the Kuwait invasion, in passing welfare messages in and out of countries with opressive regimes. These are areas where people will *give up their own time, money, resources* to *help other people out*. Sometimes in countries they have never heard of. Often they will even look for ways to work around laws, because it makes sense in the situation. Like I said, I am obviously biased, but I have not encountered the "ham culture" you mention, but I don't doubt it exists. thanks, Bernard - -- Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJROONOAAoJENsz1IO7MIrr6+8IALFXjgUMvK1/byim1ICMn9+p WAj3aV18CPywf4TQcz2LkQFSXBp9DQnYVzxIqUU3LbS5DF/v50FVKuQYiUgl5fJX FfhflfJIRrVF+4iJnUAEP42xLJq9NkdS1DeezBzf9suYg5o4MKVQbsFwdrBGAuSa YQUJHldxvi96HLat6r2JYyahR/4zyNK33ovZnPjCbOhVkZBhQTO69DEwDTB4imil +Uz6//VRaLNMNxgC6wDMQA5sh5E4uSRvykvcqltNj5cvdT/1DC/n2zp4iPMOjgCt yG98vQ2duZqCuFRUe1ob47CVtApN51dHZF73ArI9aJVd/vBPDpDXn1mtNhwKGFE= =oIxd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Nice, Erich. In a sense, radio waves are the -ultimate- in liberation, crossing national boundaries in (single or multiple) bounds. That may be a subrosa reason governments fight so hard to control them. That is clearly why some shortwave broadcasts are jammed. It's why the amateur service was cut off during WWII. That's also my conclusion about why amateurs are not allowed to use codes and ciphers (speaking of US here). And many amateurs are so blasted conservative politically, but I don't know why that is! This is experimentation, and tinkering, and hacking, and potentially liberation, but in the electronics sphere. There is a ton of potential that should not be ignored. Much as an interest in sci-fi may lead to certain kinds of mindsets, experimentation and curiosity, an interest in amateur radio is frequently correlated with an interest in other people, other cultures, science, engineering, electronics, software and other skills that can be immensely valuable to our efforts. There are certainly lots more folks on the list who have licenses, and there are lots of amateur operators who aid liberation technologies without advertising it. ^ CyberSpark.net -Keeping the flame of free speech and human rights alive online On Mar 7, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "Erich M." wrote: > On 03/07/2013 09:26 AM, Griffin Boyce wrote: >> How far is the distance being covered, and in what kind of terrain (flat >> plains, hills)? HAM might not even be necessary if it's fairly close >> (relatively speaking). GMRS radios can cover several miles. Other >> small/cheap handhelds can cover a couple of miles in ideal conditions. > > Think I can add a few bits of info here. Of course are these analog > walkie talkies an absolute no go if you have to relay sensible information. > > But ham operators _can_ help with their skills and Know-how. Here in AT > our ham radio club - my callsign is OE3EMB - operates a nationwide > wireless broadband backbone ring using TCP/IP. The ring is connected to > the German HAMnet, the network reaches from Southern Italy to > Scandinavia already. Self built self owned. > > This is in German but there is an infrastucture graph > http://wiki.oevsv.at/index.php?title=Kategorie:Digitaler_Backbone > > This is English showing the German HAMnet in 2009 > http://kb9mwr.blogspot.co.at/2009/12/german-hsmm-hamnet-20.html > > Essential is the availability of electrical power, of course. If that is > a tribal areal area I have some doubts. > > Components are off the shelf outdoor WiFI routers. The backbone operates > in the 5 GHz WiFi band with directed antennas. At 5 GHz a much higher > power output ist allowed than on 2,4 GHz which is used to distribute > locally. > All in all the whole network consumes rather little power, one unit or > node - WiFi-Router and two planar directional antennas - is around USD > 200 or less. > > The antennas MUST look into "each others eye" that is another > difficulty. But if so you can bridge 20 kilometers safely using 4-7 > stations, depending on terrain, offering 50 Mbit/sec - conservative > calculation. > > - The net works like the internet, whether connected to the internet at > some single node, or without that. > > - There is neither a problem with encryption nor with licenses. This > part of the frequency spectrum is open. Everbody can use it for wireless > broadband purposes. > my two Groschen and 73s > de > Erich OE3EMB > > -- > > http://moechel.com/kontakt.htmlPGP KEY 0xEA7DC174 > fingerprint 02AA B2E7 C609 307D 34FE 4B5C ACC6 A796 EA7D C174 > --... ...-- -.. . . .-. .. -.-. --- . ...-- . -- -... > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
On 03/07/2013 09:26 AM, Griffin Boyce wrote: > How far is the distance being covered, and in what kind of terrain (flat > plains, hills)? HAM might not even be necessary if it's fairly close > (relatively speaking). GMRS radios can cover several miles. Other > small/cheap handhelds can cover a couple of miles in ideal conditions. Think I can add a few bits of info here. Of course are these analog walkie talkies an absolute no go if you have to relay sensible information. But ham operators _can_ help with their skills and Know-how. Here in AT our ham radio club - my callsign is OE3EMB - operates a nationwide wireless broadband backbone ring using TCP/IP. The ring is connected to the German HAMnet, the network reaches from Southern Italy to Scandinavia already. Self built self owned. This is in German but there is an infrastucture graph http://wiki.oevsv.at/index.php?title=Kategorie:Digitaler_Backbone This is English showing the German HAMnet in 2009 http://kb9mwr.blogspot.co.at/2009/12/german-hsmm-hamnet-20.html Essential is the availability of electrical power, of course. If that is a tribal areal area I have some doubts. Components are off the shelf outdoor WiFI routers. The backbone operates in the 5 GHz WiFi band with directed antennas. At 5 GHz a much higher power output ist allowed than on 2,4 GHz which is used to distribute locally. All in all the whole network consumes rather little power, one unit or node - WiFi-Router and two planar directional antennas - is around USD 200 or less. The antennas MUST look into "each others eye" that is another difficulty. But if so you can bridge 20 kilometers safely using 4-7 stations, depending on terrain, offering 50 Mbit/sec - conservative calculation. - The net works like the internet, whether connected to the internet at some single node, or without that. - There is neither a problem with encryption nor with licenses. This part of the frequency spectrum is open. Everbody can use it for wireless broadband purposes. my two Groschen and 73s de Erich OE3EMB -- http://moechel.com/kontakt.htmlPGP KEY 0xEA7DC174 fingerprint 02AA B2E7 C609 307D 34FE 4B5C ACC6 A796 EA7D C174 --... ...-- -.. . . .-. .. -.-. --- . ...-- . -- -... -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/07/2013 03:02 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > The whole ham culture and liberation technologies do not really > mix. Unfortunately, this has been my experience as well. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS] Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/ PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ On the Internet, nobody knows you're a Perl script. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlE4wnkACgkQO9j/K4B7F8F2qACfRm+tUqHlqHyAlgULR38xaoJi 72QAoKaSIQ4wPu35TDERa/WVpIse0hal =hHz/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/06/2013 05:41 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > The Byzantium Project folks (wi-fi mesh) have some amateur > operators among their numbers and might also have opinions on how > easy it is to We do. > get folks licensed, and also on "edge" connections of mesh and > other I can't speak for Haxwithaxe, but I took two weekend classes for the Tech class licensing exam (total time: sixteen hours) and re-read the course materials twice (http://www.kb6nu.com/tech-manual/), and passed the exam on the first try. I'm friends with a couple of hams in the DC metroplex who aced all three exams (Technician, General, and Extra) in one shot and know more about amateur radio and RF theory off the tops of their heads than I do. > networks to amateurs (which is severely limited by law). My take is > that even though hams tend to think it's easy to get a license, > there are significant (maybe psychological) barriers to entry. > Maybe it's just I think it depends on the ham you talk to. Before taking the exam I studied the ARRL's official Tech class study guide off and on for a couple of years (and did the practice sets for every chapter) and it was easily the most difficult exam I've ever studied for. Then again, I'm a coder and not particularly skilled with electronics (I thought operating systems and compiler theory were easy). That one has to study to take the amateur radio licensing exams puts a lot of people off. They just don't want to put in the effort "to sit around talking to people." I got that a lot from non-hackers when I was studying for the exam in late 2011 and early 2012. There is also the (largely correct) perception that amateur radio equipment is very expensive. A lot of it is. HT's (hand-held portable units) are much less expensive (and getting cheaper - thank you, Baofeng) but the common response is still "I don't want to sit around studying when I could just talk on the phone." > that mobile phones provide so many of the same benefits without > the licensure hassle? One definitely has to put in much less work up front to be allowed to chat on a cellphone. > Some of the people on this list know how wi-fi can be provisioned > over fairly long distances using high-gain antennas and mesh > software. It Project Byzantium does. We've done it around DC and in New York City. Do you have any specific questions on this topic? Do you have any specific questions pertaining to amateur radio and wi-fi (because there is a bit of overlap)? > seems to me that this might be an interesting way to go about > getting real Internet connectivity. I've been on the list a couple > of years and That may be why so many community wireless projects in the States draw fire from telecom companies, but that's a rant for another mailing list (such as IS4CWN). - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS] Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/ PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ On the Internet, nobody knows you're a Perl script. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlE4wigACgkQO9j/K4B7F8HJdgCeKhobX6jleUjl3Ze8bSomqR+A Ha8AnAjsBlpyOTzIUFEvP7MluTWQYBdc =//Qw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
How far is the distance being covered, and in what kind of terrain (flat plains, hills)? HAM might not even be necessary if it's fairly close (relatively speaking). GMRS radios can cover several miles. Other small/cheap handhelds can cover a couple of miles in ideal conditions. Having said that, even when speaking in code, it's not a good idea to broadcast medical information like that. Unless you're operating in an area with literally no other radios around (a rare situation indeed), I foresee problems. In some countries, medical privacy laws would also prohibit this. ~Griffin -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 09:36:41PM +, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote: > I have one answer: Amateur radio. Forget mobile phone networks. Amateur > radio is cheap, very durable and will provide you with the functions you > need, and if you can get access to amateur radio operators in your country, > you may have free support for the life of your project! Hams need to be registered, may only communicate with other hams (i.e. may not give access to third parties, and especially pass traffic of third parites) and may not pass encrypted traffic. You might get away with end to end encryption at application layer, but this would be only tolerated at best. The whole ham culture and liberation technologies do not really mix. -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Dr. Dey, It appears you let the list off the response to me. Likewise it appears you have been dropped from the list discussion. You can see everyone's responses at: https://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/2013-March/thread.html(Scroll toward bottom for thread) The Android HAM option is software control of an external HAM receiver or a web-site that relays HAM radio groups. It is not an actual radio solution and will require the regular cellular data network to function - which defeats the purpose of what you require. Good luck, Cheers, -Ali On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Dr.Tusharkanti Dey < dr.tusharkanti...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > Thank you very much for your inputs. > > Transmission of voice communication in tribal inhabitated hilly areas is > really difficult as the strength of the signals from mobile transmission > towers are almost nil. I thougt that, the solution in this situation can be > > 1. Setting up of mobile signal strength boosters. > > 2. Setting up mid range wifi system . > > Both this options are not suitable for our organisation as our resources > are limited to bear the cost. > > Android phones are avilable in Indian Markets at a price of Rs. 3000/- to > 4000/- ( approximately) ., where as HAM radio transrecivers are more > costly. Also, HAM radio operators transmit valuable voice communications in > timre of emergencies. Why this can not be used for voice communication in > difficult areas while HAM radio transreceivers can be installed on android > phones. Will any body pl reply in details? > > If HAM radio can not applied what is the other low cost solutions ? My > intension is that voice communication will be trans mitted between > headquarters to health workers and amongst health workers. I would like to > transmit vioce over an area of 10-20 sq. Km. > > Thanks, > > Dr.Tusharkanti Dey > On Mar 7, 2013 1:38 AM, "Ali-Reza Anghaie" wrote: > >> I'm assuming privacy issues are of minimal concern given the other >> problems at play here - I could be wrong but bear with me. >> >> Trying to think of lowest-cost, reliable, easiest to expand and re-deploy >> without a telco or other licensing. >> >> I wonder is a low-bandwidth text HF APRS ( >> http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html) option with a laminated deck of >> shorthand medical terms would be a reasonable remote field option? About >> as rudimentary as you get but considering a worst case scenario - it >> might just work. -Ali >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: >> >>> Since "HAM" (amateur radio) is real radio, not phone, an Android app >>> wouldn't use it directly. The app might -control- an amateur radio >>> remotely, and there is software available to do this. However, I'm not sure >>> what benefit it would bring to this project. >>> >>> In the US, amateur radio operators must send all information in "clear >>> text," and encryption is illegal, thus you would not want to try to >>> exchange medical info because you'd need to encrypt it. In other countries >>> it -should- be illegal to transmit medical info in the clear, so I'd >>> suggest avoiding this. >>> >>> Also, "high frequency" amateur radio doesn't have sufficient bandwidth >>> to transfer much digital information. VHF/UHF does in theory, but in >>> general amateur radio operators restrict their bandwidth and the maximum >>> usable transfer rate is under 9600 baud. i.e. very slow. >>> >>> -Sky AA6AX >>> >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> - - - - >>> Sky (Jim Schuyler, PhD) >>> -We work backstage so you can be the star >>> Blog: http://blog.red7.com/ >>> Phone: +1.415.759.7337 >>> PGP Keys: http://web.red7.com/pgp >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2013, at 5:47 PM, ITechGeek wrote: >>> >>> Depends on what information you might be transmitting and the specific >>> laws of the local country/countries involved. >>> >>> HAMs have to be licensed through the local countries licensing >>> authority (in the case of the US would be the FCC). >>> >>> Under US you could probably get away with allowing them to coordinate >>> if it is non-profit in nature, but you would not be able to discuss >>> any medical information that would allow a third party to possibly >>> identify the patient. >>> >>> And some countries are very restrictive on who can get HAM licenses >>> due to the potential to get around their propaganda controls. Also >>> rules can change based on frequencies being used cause lower >>> frequencies can transmit further. >>> >>> Can you provide the country or countries involved? >>> >>> >>> --- >>> -ITG (ITechGeek) >>> i...@itechgeek.com >>> https://itg.nu/ >>> GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key >>> Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A >>> Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: >>> http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net >>> >>> >>> On
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Thanks, Bernard for the info on APRS. I am out of date as I don't use it. You are especially right that here in the US it's easy to get a Technician license, which is the entry-level amateur license issued by the FCC. It takes maybe 3 hours of study and a 30-minute test. I'd guess you have something similar in Ireland and most of Europe. Dr. Dey, could we know the country in which you're considering using this approach? That would help us understand the licensing structure there. And also the distances you are talking about. Are the tribal areas 20 miles from reliable cellular service or are they 200 miles out? If you prefer to handle it off-list, it looks like there are a few people who would be interested. I am checking this HamSphere that is mentioned, and I don't see that it's actually using radio anywhere. It appears to "simulate" an amateur radio station but use the Internet for communication. Not enough time to download and test this today. So in terms of offering even a partial solution, perhaps figuring out whether amateur radio could be provided in some inexpensive way to these out-of-the-way areas would be of interest. Could locals become licensed? Could radio equipment be available at an affordable price? Could "itinerant" operators do the job on motorcycles? Etc. If so, then more complex messages could certainly be transmitted and there would be a wider window to the world from the remote locations. The original question asked about "voice" so the fact that I (or others) diverted this to digital modes may be, in fact, just a diversion. The Byzantium Project folks (wi-fi mesh) have some amateur operators among their numbers and might also have opinions on how easy it is to get folks licensed, and also on "edge" connections of mesh and other networks to amateurs (which is severely limited by law). My take is that even though hams tend to think it's easy to get a license, there are significant (maybe psychological) barriers to entry. Maybe it's just that mobile phones provide so many of the same benefits without the licensure hassle? Some of the people on this list know how wi-fi can be provisioned over fairly long distances using high-gain antennas and mesh software. It seems to me that this might be an interesting way to go about getting real Internet connectivity. I've been on the list a couple of years and heard only sporadic conversation about using long-distance wi-fi as a liberating technology. An example of a regional network that I've known since 2005 is airjaldi.com in northern India, but I know there are others in Africa, South/East Asia and South America. They aren't necessarily formed to liberate people from governmental oppression, but they are providing much-needed connections for their remote communities. (Switching back to my proper email address for this reply) ^ CyberSpark.net -Keeping the flame of free speech and human rights alive online On Mar 6, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Howdy AA6AX, > > Nice to meet you. > > On 6 Mar 2013, at 21:09, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > >> Your APRS idea is interesting and I only know it from the "positioning" >> side, not from passing any text, so you may want to continue looking into >> it. I do not know that APRS is currently passing any traffic other than >> positions, at least as used in the US. I also do not know whether it's used >> outside the US. Please do remember that APRS and most other amateur digital >> service are not designed to be "reliable" which means they may not "try >> again" to pass a message and the message may become garbled in transmission. >> Some do attempt to error-correct, but not most. > > Not strictly true. APRS clients can be configured to send messages and retry > for X attempts. Then it will give up. > > Seeing as SMS transmission isn't even guaranteed, I think its a pretty good > attempt for a system that has been developed totally for free! :) > > >> Even most amateur radio digital protocols do not have very robust >> error-correction, so they're a bit iffy. > > That is true. > >> Easiest to expand: maybe and maybe not. You have to have a stable of radio >> operators available both locally and remotely. (Presuming you want >> information to go from somewhere to somewhere.) > > If as Dr. Dey requested both sides of the communications were between health > workers and their HQ, you could train up all the health workers and possibly > even employ a "net controller" (amateur radio lingo for person who sits in HQ > and is in contact with all the field posts) to co-ordinate communications. > > >> Without licensing: Although I encourage folks to become amateur radio >> operators, they do need to be licensed. The government that giveth it can >> taketh it away at the stroke of a pen. I will skip saying more right now. > > I agree.
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Howdy AA6AX, Nice to meet you. On 6 Mar 2013, at 21:09, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > Your APRS idea is interesting and I only know it from the "positioning" side, > not from passing any text, so you may want to continue looking into it. I do > not know that APRS is currently passing any traffic other than positions, at > least as used in the US. I also do not know whether it's used outside the US. > Please do remember that APRS and most other amateur digital service are not > designed to be "reliable" which means they may not "try again" to pass a > message and the message may become garbled in transmission. Some do attempt > to error-correct, but not most. Not strictly true. APRS clients can be configured to send messages and retry for X attempts. Then it will give up. Seeing as SMS transmission isn't even guaranteed, I think its a pretty good attempt for a system that has been developed totally for free! :) > Even most amateur radio digital protocols do not have very robust > error-correction, so they're a bit iffy. That is true. > Easiest to expand: maybe and maybe not. You have to have a stable of radio > operators available both locally and remotely. (Presuming you want > information to go from somewhere to somewhere.) If as Dr. Dey requested both sides of the communications were between health workers and their HQ, you could train up all the health workers and possibly even employ a "net controller" (amateur radio lingo for person who sits in HQ and is in contact with all the field posts) to co-ordinate communications. > Without licensing: Although I encourage folks to become amateur radio > operators, they do need to be licensed. The government that giveth it can > taketh it away at the stroke of a pen. I will skip saying more right now. I agree. I'd go a bit further even and say a restricted licence now-adays is trivial to receive. > Also I note in your original statement that you are talking about "tribal > areas" with poor connectivity. Your challenge is going to be getting your > signal from the tribal area to a reliable amateur radio operator. That's > unless the radio operator is already in the tribal area. If the cell phone > can's connect, then amateur VHF and UHF probably wouldn't work either, so > you'd have to rely upon HF with longer range but much greater variability in > terms of signal propagation. How much can you build a self-sustaining 2M VHF repeater for now-a-days? :) > Keep in mind that amateur radio is a point-to-point service subject to the > vagaries of radio propagation. In other words, there is no reliable path 24/7 > from one point to another unless you're using prearranged VHF or UHF > frequencies and line of sight propagation. Commonly for emergency ops we > arrange all of this in advance and have emergency power and operators > trained, and frequencies and modes chosen. For HF propagation there is no > guarantee your message will get through because "the bands may be dead." Which is kinda similar when it comes to mobile networks. If it was possible to get a telco to carry out some "corporate social responsability" work and install even just 2G voice that would be something. I would argue, you can get a lot more communications bang for buck with some trained amateur radio engineers, and some amateur radio equipment, than spotty 3G coverage. Mobile operators work on the premise: when we will make enough money from people, we will install equipment. I'd honestly hope they have a different business model outside of Europe, but I don't think so. 73's /Bernard > > On Mar 6, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie wrote: > >> I'm assuming privacy issues are of minimal concern given the other problems >> at play here - I could be wrong but bear with me. >> >> Trying to think of lowest-cost, reliable, easiest to expand and re-deploy >> without a telco or other licensing. >> >> I wonder is a low-bandwidth text HF APRS >> (http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html) option with a laminated deck of >> shorthand medical terms would be a reasonable remote field option? About as >> rudimentary as you get but considering a worst case scenario - it might just >> work. -Ali >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: >> Since "HAM" (amateur radio) is real radio, not phone, an Android app >> wouldn't use it directly. The app might -control- an amateur radio remotely, >> and there is software available to do this. However, I'm not sure what >> benefit it would bring to this project. >> >> In the US, amateur radio operators must send all information in "clear >> text," and encryption is illegal, thus you would not want to try to exchange >> medical info because you'd need to encrypt it. In other countries it >> -should- be illegal to transmit medical info in the clear, so I'd suggest >> avoiding this. >> >> Also, "high frequency" amateur radi
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Dr. Dey: Disclosure: I am a licensed amateur radio operator. I am slightly biased. :) I have one answer: Amateur radio. Forget mobile phone networks. Amateur radio is cheap, very durable and will provide you with the functions you need, and if you can get access to amateur radio operators in your country, you may have free support for the life of your project! If you can tell us the country you wish to set this project up we can possibly help with finding out more about the amateur radio community in the country. To answer your questions: >>> I am proposing to set up a ICT based health project in tribal areas with >>> poor infrastructural facilities with poor cell phone connectivity due to >>> unstable signal strengths. i have learnt that HAM radio software from >>> HamSphere is downloadable on android phones. Yes it is downloadable, but as far as I understand (it was the case when I wanted to install and use the software), it requires the person wishing to operate it to send the administrators of the system a copy of their amateur radio licence. NB: This could have changed. >>> I would like to know whether these android phones with HAM radio software >>> installed can be used for communication used for voice communication >>> between health workers themselves and with head quarter staff. Yes, it would be possible but it would require a) the telecommunications infrastructure for an "IP connection" (either mobile phone network, or WiFi). >>> Will it be legally permissible and what technical requirements will be >>> needed to set up such system. I understand it is still a "requirement" to produce a valid amateur radio license to get access to the Hamsphere (and similar systems). The technical requirements are an Internet connection capable of carrying your amateur radio software messages. Without either a) a mobile phone network, or b) a WiFi (or similar system), c) satellite Internet service this is not possible. >>> The other alternative of setting up of mobile signal boosters or long >>> distance WiFi hubs are currently not affordable to our limited resource >>> organisation And honestly, would not be a good use of your funds. - --- The APRS discussion: APRS is still clear text - the only "protection" is that it is a digital mode (it is transported over AX.25, a transmission protocol). Anyone with an APRS modem and amateur radio *could* decode and read the APRS messages. End result again is no privacy. Maybe privacy through obscurity. APRS is used (in UK and Ireland) regularly for passing short messages, and information objects (weather conditions/temperature in geographical areas, traffic information, movement of rescue teams). I can give you more information if you think it's of interest. There is a system called Winlink (in the States I think its called Sailmail?) which can be used to send and receive e-mail, which I think is more what you are thinking about. Winlink operates with a similar objective as e-mail - it sends electronic messages to and from stations equipped with Winlink systems. It can be used over HF (frequencies with long distance capabilities). But the requirement for equipment is greater than 2-way voice communications. However, in this case, I would ask: is there really a need for privacy? Or at least is there a need to identify the patient by name, etc? Idea: = By European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications (CEPT) regulations and the mirroring bodies in other parts of the world, a non-licensed individual is allowed to operate a licensed amateur radio station in the presence of a license holder. The patient could speak direct to the medical staff to explain their conditions, etc. Scenario: (I don't know if this scenario is feasible or reflects real-life circumstances. If not, please give some more details for discussion) * A patient goes to the health worker, based with the village/nearest health station, with a health complaint. * The health worker needs assistance in helping diagnosis/treatment from his/her headquarters. The health worker has been trained and received an amateur radio licence. * They then call the headquarters for more details on the particular patients condition. * The health worker does not name the individual, but gives his/her medical background. As the health worker is present, the patient can talk directly to the headquarters and give their information first hand. * If necessary the patient can be given a pseudonym for use over the radio system. The patient's real name could be sent via normal means to the headquarters if necessary. * The headquarters responds with information for the persons case. * The information exchanged is not personally identifiable (I guess you could argue their voice could be used to identify them...). They are just some ideas as I thought. I would argue the licencing
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Your APRS idea is interesting and I only know it from the "positioning" side, not from passing any text, so you may want to continue looking into it. I do not know that APRS is currently passing any traffic other than positions, at least as used in the US. I also do not know whether it's used outside the US. Please do remember that APRS and most other amateur digital service are not designed to be "reliable" which means they may not "try again" to pass a message and the message may become garbled in transmission. Some do attempt to error-correct, but not most. Some more observations on your criteria: Low-cost: maybe. Each operator has to have equipment which generally runs USD$500 to many thousands. Also Android is low cost if you have some kind of connection to the radio operator. So the "last mile" or "first mile" depending on how you look at it, is not expensive. But you said tribal areas, so I don't know what your challenges would be on that count. Reliable: amateur radio has varying reliability, and it is easily interfered with if someone wants to do that. In planning emergency operations we take into account that there may be malicious interference even during an emergency. Even most amateur radio digital protocols do not have very robust error-correction, so they're a bit iffy. Easiest to expand: maybe and maybe not. You have to have a stable of radio operators available both locally and remotely. (Presuming you want information to go from somewhere to somewhere.) Without a telco: Yes for the amateur portion at least. Without licensing: Although I encourage folks to become amateur radio operators, they do need to be licensed. The government that giveth it can taketh it away at the stroke of a pen. I will skip saying more right now. Also I note in your original statement that you are talking about "tribal areas" with poor connectivity. Your challenge is going to be getting your signal from the tribal area to a reliable amateur radio operator. That's unless the radio operator is already in the tribal area. If the cell phone can's connect, then amateur VHF and UHF probably wouldn't work either, so you'd have to rely upon HF with longer range but much greater variability in terms of signal propagation. > Keep in mind that amateur radio is a point-to-point service subject to the vagaries of radio propagation. In other words, there is no reliable path 24/7 from one point to another unless you're using prearranged VHF or UHF frequencies and line of sight propagation. Commonly for emergency ops we arrange all of this in advance and have emergency power and operators trained, and frequencies and modes chosen. For HF propagation there is no guarantee your message will get through because "the bands may be dead." We've been thinking here (San Francisco) of linking amateur packet radio with local mesh wi-fi (see Byzantium Project for example) to transfer some traffic in semi-automated ways during emergency, but this is a long way from actual implementation. The Byzantium folks are on this list and can comment. HF: high frequency (meaning roughly 1mHz to many gHz, which is reliant upon ionospheric conditions for signal propagation VHF: very high frequency (generally 100mHz to 150mHz) line of sight mostly, with repeaters being generally used UHF: ultra… (generally 200mHz and up) line of sight mostly, and repeaters APRS: Automatic Packet Reporting System (a digital position-reportig protocol used on certain amateur frequencies) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sky (Jim Schuyler, PhD) -We work backstage so you can be the star Blog: http://blog.red7.com/ Phone: +1.415.759.7337 PGP Keys: http://web.red7.com/pgp On Mar 6, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie wrote: > I'm assuming privacy issues are of minimal concern given the other problems > at play here - I could be wrong but bear with me. > > Trying to think of lowest-cost, reliable, easiest to expand and re-deploy > without a telco or other licensing. > > I wonder is a low-bandwidth text HF APRS > (http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html) option with a laminated deck of > shorthand medical terms would be a reasonable remote field option? About as > rudimentary as you get but considering a worst case scenario - it might just > work. -Ali > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > Since "HAM" (amateur radio) is real radio, not phone, an Android app wouldn't > use it directly. The app might -control- an amateur radio remotely, and there > is software available to do this. However, I'm not sure what benefit it would > bring to this project. > > In the US, amateur radio operators must send all information in "clear text," > and encryption is illegal, thus you would not want to try to exchange medical > info because you'd need to encrypt it. In other countries it -should- be > illegal to transmit medical info in the clear, so I'd sugg
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
I'm assuming privacy issues are of minimal concern given the other problems at play here - I could be wrong but bear with me. Trying to think of lowest-cost, reliable, easiest to expand and re-deploy without a telco or other licensing. I wonder is a low-bandwidth text HF APRS ( http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html) option with a laminated deck of shorthand medical terms would be a reasonable remote field option? About as rudimentary as you get but considering a worst case scenario - it might just work. -Ali On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Sky (Jim Schuyler) wrote: > Since "HAM" (amateur radio) is real radio, not phone, an Android app > wouldn't use it directly. The app might -control- an amateur radio > remotely, and there is software available to do this. However, I'm not sure > what benefit it would bring to this project. > > In the US, amateur radio operators must send all information in "clear > text," and encryption is illegal, thus you would not want to try to > exchange medical info because you'd need to encrypt it. In other countries > it -should- be illegal to transmit medical info in the clear, so I'd > suggest avoiding this. > > Also, "high frequency" amateur radio doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to > transfer much digital information. VHF/UHF does in theory, but in general > amateur radio operators restrict their bandwidth and the maximum usable > transfer rate is under 9600 baud. i.e. very slow. > > -Sky AA6AX > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Sky (Jim Schuyler, PhD) > -We work backstage so you can be the star > Blog: http://blog.red7.com/ > Phone: +1.415.759.7337 > PGP Keys: http://web.red7.com/pgp > > On Mar 5, 2013, at 5:47 PM, ITechGeek wrote: > > Depends on what information you might be transmitting and the specific > laws of the local country/countries involved. > > HAMs have to be licensed through the local countries licensing > authority (in the case of the US would be the FCC). > > Under US you could probably get away with allowing them to coordinate > if it is non-profit in nature, but you would not be able to discuss > any medical information that would allow a third party to possibly > identify the patient. > > And some countries are very restrictive on who can get HAM licenses > due to the potential to get around their propaganda controls. Also > rules can change based on frequencies being used cause lower > frequencies can transmit further. > > Can you provide the country or countries involved? > > > --- > -ITG (ITechGeek) > i...@itechgeek.com > https://itg.nu/ > GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key > Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A > Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: > http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Yosem Companys > wrote: > > From: Dr. Tusharkanti Dey > > Dear All, > > I am proposing to set up a ICT based health project in tribal areas with > poor infrastructural facilities with poor cell phone connectivity due to > unstable signal strengths. i have learnt that HAM radio software from > HamSphere is downloadable on android phones.I would like to know whether > these android phones with HAM radio software installed can be used for > communication used for voice communication between health workers > themselves and with head quarter staff. Will it be legally permissible and > what technical requirements will be needed to set up such system. The other > alternative of setting up of mobile signal boosters or long distance WiFi > hubs are currently not affordable to our limited resource organisation > > Thanks, > Dr.Tusharkanti Dey > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Since "HAM" (amateur radio) is real radio, not phone, an Android app wouldn't use it directly. The app might -control- an amateur radio remotely, and there is software available to do this. However, I'm not sure what benefit it would bring to this project. In the US, amateur radio operators must send all information in "clear text," and encryption is illegal, thus you would not want to try to exchange medical info because you'd need to encrypt it. In other countries it -should- be illegal to transmit medical info in the clear, so I'd suggest avoiding this. Also, "high frequency" amateur radio doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to transfer much digital information. VHF/UHF does in theory, but in general amateur radio operators restrict their bandwidth and the maximum usable transfer rate is under 9600 baud. i.e. very slow. -Sky AA6AX - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sky (Jim Schuyler, PhD) -We work backstage so you can be the star Blog: http://blog.red7.com/ Phone: +1.415.759.7337 PGP Keys: http://web.red7.com/pgp On Mar 5, 2013, at 5:47 PM, ITechGeek wrote: > Depends on what information you might be transmitting and the specific > laws of the local country/countries involved. > > HAMs have to be licensed through the local countries licensing > authority (in the case of the US would be the FCC). > > Under US you could probably get away with allowing them to coordinate > if it is non-profit in nature, but you would not be able to discuss > any medical information that would allow a third party to possibly > identify the patient. > > And some countries are very restrictive on who can get HAM licenses > due to the potential to get around their propaganda controls. Also > rules can change based on frequencies being used cause lower > frequencies can transmit further. > > Can you provide the country or countries involved? > > --- > -ITG (ITechGeek) > i...@itechgeek.com > https://itg.nu/ > GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key > Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A > Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: > http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Yosem Companys wrote: >> From: Dr. Tusharkanti Dey >> >> Dear All, >> >> I am proposing to set up a ICT based health project in tribal areas with >> poor infrastructural facilities with poor cell phone connectivity due to >> unstable signal strengths. i have learnt that HAM radio software from >> HamSphere is downloadable on android phones.I would like to know whether >> these android phones with HAM radio software installed can be used for >> communication used for voice communication between health workers themselves >> and with head quarter staff. Will it be legally permissible and what >> technical requirements will be needed to set up such system. The other >> alternative of setting up of mobile signal boosters or long distance WiFi >> hubs are currently not affordable to our limited resource organisation >> >> Thanks, >> Dr.Tusharkanti Dey >> -- >> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by >> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at >> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
Depends on what information you might be transmitting and the specific laws of the local country/countries involved. HAMs have to be licensed through the local countries licensing authority (in the case of the US would be the FCC). Under US you could probably get away with allowing them to coordinate if it is non-profit in nature, but you would not be able to discuss any medical information that would allow a third party to possibly identify the patient. And some countries are very restrictive on who can get HAM licenses due to the potential to get around their propaganda controls. Also rules can change based on frequencies being used cause lower frequencies can transmit further. Can you provide the country or countries involved? --- -ITG (ITechGeek) i...@itechgeek.com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Yosem Companys wrote: > From: Dr. Tusharkanti Dey > > Dear All, > > I am proposing to set up a ICT based health project in tribal areas with poor > infrastructural facilities with poor cell phone connectivity due to unstable > signal strengths. i have learnt that HAM radio software from HamSphere is > downloadable on android phones.I would like to know whether these android > phones with HAM radio software installed can be used for communication used > for voice communication between health workers themselves and with head > quarter staff. Will it be legally permissible and what technical requirements > will be needed to set up such system. The other alternative of setting up of > mobile signal boosters or long distance WiFi hubs are currently not > affordable to our limited resource organisation > > Thanks, > Dr.Tusharkanti Dey > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
[liberationtech] Can HAM radio be used for communication between health workers in rural areas with no cell connectivity?
From: Dr. Tusharkanti Dey Dear All, I am proposing to set up a ICT based health project in tribal areas with poor infrastructural facilities with poor cell phone connectivity due to unstable signal strengths. i have learnt that HAM radio software from HamSphere is downloadable on android phones.I would like to know whether these android phones with HAM radio software installed can be used for communication used for voice communication between health workers themselves and with head quarter staff. Will it be legally permissible and what technical requirements will be needed to set up such system. The other alternative of setting up of mobile signal boosters or long distance WiFi hubs are currently not affordable to our limited resource organisation Thanks, Dr.Tusharkanti Dey-- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
