Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb]

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While I support the idea of exposing the internal workings of these pointless 
companies, I would expect the poor "intern" who was "successful" would be bound 
by umpteen NDA's requiring various body parts if they were ever breached!

Is it worth martyrdom?! :)


On 23 Feb 2013, at 22:17, Jurre andmore wrote:

> That's a rather excellent suggestion to infiltrate and spill their secrets!
> 
> Op 23 feb. 2013 19:19 schreef "Don Marti"  het volgende:
> begin Jacob Appelbaum quotation of Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:06:38PM +:
> 
> > This seems like a great job for understanding the current state and
> > future trajectory of a specific component networked authoritarianism!
> 
> Or for taking notes for an article, "I was an
> exploited intern for a creepy privacy-violating
> marketing company."  I bet the Atlantic would
> buy that.


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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Jurre andmore]

That's a rather excellent suggestion to infiltrate and spill their secrets!
Op 23 feb. 2013 19:19 schreef "Don Marti"  het volgende:

> begin Jacob Appelbaum quotation of Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:06:38PM +:
>
> > This seems like a great job for understanding the current state and
> > future trajectory of a specific component networked authoritarianism!
>
> Or for taking notes for an article, "I was an
> exploited intern for a creepy privacy-violating
> marketing company."  I bet the Atlantic would
> buy that.
>
> --
> Don Marti  +1-510-332-1587 (mobile)
> http://zgp.org/~dmarti/Alameda, California, USA
> dma...@zgp.org
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Don Marti]

begin Jacob Appelbaum quotation of Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:06:38PM +:

> This seems like a great job for understanding the current state and
> future trajectory of a specific component networked authoritarianism!

Or for taking notes for an article, "I was an
exploited intern for a creepy privacy-violating
marketing company."  I bet the Atlantic would
buy that.

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Ralph Holz]

Hi,

> Well written Griffin. And this approach is not just Fortune 500
> companies, and not just US either.

This is correct. I've followed this thread and see the similarities to
Germany here - except that some US states have gone ahead already and
explicitly forbidden unpaid internships in certain cases. I wish this
would spread.

Ralph

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb]

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On 23 Feb 2013, at 04:40, Griffin Boyce wrote:

> 
>   The unpaid internship "bubble" for Fortune 500 companies should have burst 
> five years ago.  Not only is it bad business practice, it's unfair to the 
> interns who are put in that position.

Well written Griffin. And this approach is not just Fortune 500 companies, and 
not just US either.

As someone who has recently changed profession (and a few years older than 
28!), I have turned down and ignored a number "opportunities" (their words, not 
mine) as the positions were "interships". I refuse to work for free, for a 
profit making company.

The least companies can do is pay minimum wage, and even then...

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Warigia Bowman]

This is a well written point by Griffin!

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Griffin Boyce wrote:

> Leigh Honeywell  wrote:
>
>> Unpaid internships are illegal and discriminatory.  In terms of "white
>> collar" labour practices, few things piss me off quite so much.
>>
>> I'm not a lawyer, but the California Department of Industrial Relations,
>> Division of Labor Enforcement is pretty clear about what companies are
>> allowed to use unpaid interns for
>>
>
>   I don't have a problem with nonprofits having small part-time unpaid
> internships.  These are effectively volunteer positions, and everyone goes
> into it with their eyes open.  No one expects 40+ hours a week from an
> intern at a non-profit.  It's a labor of love on both sides.
>
>   I have a serious problem with a tech company that decides to *stop
> paying* for interns, who are expected to work 40-50 hours a week (or
> more).  And let's get one thing straight. It's not *just* unpaid.  These
> interns are paying for the privilege of working for a company who does not
> value their time, and they are spending both time and money to compete for
> these already-unpaid positions.
>
>   At 28, it's been repeatedly suggested that I give in and take an unpaid
> internship at a large company. Completely ludicrous.  I'm happy to work
> with a non-profit that is making a difference in AIDS.  But I'm not going
> to work for a company who is making a profit from my work but can't find it
> in themselves to pay me.
>
>   The unpaid internship "bubble" for Fortune 500 companies should have
> burst five years ago.  Not only is it bad business practice, it's unfair to
> the interns who are put in that position.
>
> ~Griffin
>
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Griffin Boyce]

Leigh Honeywell  wrote:

> Unpaid internships are illegal and discriminatory.  In terms of "white
> collar" labour practices, few things piss me off quite so much.
>
> I'm not a lawyer, but the California Department of Industrial Relations,
> Division of Labor Enforcement is pretty clear about what companies are
> allowed to use unpaid interns for
>

  I don't have a problem with nonprofits having small part-time unpaid
internships.  These are effectively volunteer positions, and everyone goes
into it with their eyes open.  No one expects 40+ hours a week from an
intern at a non-profit.  It's a labor of love on both sides.

  I have a serious problem with a tech company that decides to *stop
paying* for
interns, who are expected to work 40-50 hours a week (or more).  And let's
get one thing straight. It's not *just* unpaid.  These interns are paying
for the privilege of working for a company who does not value their time,
and they are spending both time and money to compete for these
already-unpaid positions.

  At 28, it's been repeatedly suggested that I give in and take an unpaid
internship at a large company. Completely ludicrous.  I'm happy to work
with a non-profit that is making a difference in AIDS.  But I'm not going
to work for a company who is making a profit from my work but can't find it
in themselves to pay me.

  The unpaid internship "bubble" for Fortune 500 companies should have
burst five years ago.  Not only is it bad business practice, it's unfair to
the interns who are put in that position.

~Griffin
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Jacob Appelbaum]

Hamdan Azhar:
> Please forward widely!
> 
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> 
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
> 
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> 
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
> 
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
> 

This seems like a great job for understanding the current state and
future trajectory of a specific component networked authoritarianism!

Specifically, which companies have the future ability to help with
so-called pre-crime, as well as which companies are already doing it,
how well they're doing it and what thwarts their analysis. It will also
probably help people to understand what Facebook is already doing behind
the scenes, which agencies they do or do not share data with and which
private companies also have such data.

All the best,
Jacob

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Greg Norcie]

Sorry, my bad, I totally missed that.

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GPG key: 0x1B873635

On 2/22/13 5:00 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Greg Norcie  wrote:
>> While I agree the OP probably should have gone to libtech-jobs, are they
>> actually saying they aren't paying? While they didn't mention payment in
>> the OP, they didn't say it was unpaid either. The graphscience site
>> lists some internships in with their other "hiring" opportunities.
> 
> OP mentioned it in the initial post:
> 
> "Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for
> quirky, creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a
> fast-paced environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3
> months."
> 
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Greg Norcie]

While I agree the OP probably should have gone to libtech-jobs, are they
actually saying they aren't paying? While they didn't mention payment in
the OP, they didn't say it was unpaid either. The graphscience site
lists some internships in with their other "hiring" opportunities.

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GPG key: 0x1B873635

On 2/22/13 2:32 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:
> Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, but are often misused to
> avoid minimum wage laws.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html
> http://www.good.is/posts/unpaid-internship-unfair-likely-illegal-and-not-going-away-anytime-soon
> http://www.moneysideoflife.com/illegal-internship-flowchart/
> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-paradox-of-the-unpaid-internship/266964/
> 
> In particular, to be legal, the employer should "derive no immediate
> benefit" from the intern's work, and the experience should be similar to
> training given by an educational institution.  Neither of those is
> likely to be true in the case at hand.
> 
> A venture-funded startup paying for office space in Palo Alto has no
> legitimate justification to avoid paying a reasonable wage to qualified
> interns.  Looks like GraphScience is funded by "EchoVC Partners" and
> "Raptor Ventures":
> 
> http://www.crunchbase.com/company/graphscience
> https://www.fis.dowjones.com/article.aspx?ProductIDFromApplication=32&aid=DJFVW00020120328e83sr7ds4&r=Rss&s=DJFVW
> http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/raptor-ventures
> http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/echovc-partners
> 
> -andy
> 
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:20:07AM -0800, Jillian C. York wrote:
>> Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, and how does it help anyone
>> to spread untruths like that?
>>
>> I'm not saying I'm in favor of them (I'm not), but a quick Google search
>> shows you're wrong in most US states.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  wrote:
>>
>>> Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
>>> from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com)
>>> GPG key: 0x1B873635
>>>
>>> On 2/22/13 10:16 AM, Q. Parker wrote:
 A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:

 1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.

 2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.

 3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for clinical
>>> trials.

 4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from
>>> fresh-faced recent grads.

 All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that posts
>>> an ad like this
 (and here, no less).

 Quirkily,
 Q.

 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> Please forward widely!
>
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
>
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will
>>> play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
>
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for
>>> quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
>
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and
>>> the
> name of the last book you read.
>
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com

> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

 --
 Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> seemingly impossible to become a reality" - *Vaclav Havel*
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Jillian C. York]

Right - but in the context of this list, where there are lots of nonprofit
folks, your initial statement was incredibly unclear.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Greg Norcie  wrote:

> Unpaid internships where you are not receiving college credit are
> generally illegal, unless the business is "training" you and not
> receiving an economic benefit. This is not generally true for a vast
> majority of unpaid internships.
>
> --
> Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com)
> GPG key: 0x1B873635
>
> On 2/22/13 2:20 PM, Jillian C. York wrote:
> > Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, and how does it help
> > anyone to spread untruths like that?
> >
> > I'm not saying I'm in favor of them (I'm not), but a quick Google search
> > shows you're wrong in most US states.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  > > wrote:
> >
> > Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course
> credit
> > from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com )
> > GPG key: 0x1B873635
> >
> > On 2/22/13 10:16 AM, Q. Parker wrote:
> > > A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:
> > >
> > > 1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.
> > >
> > > 2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.
> > >
> > > 3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for
> > clinical trials.
> > >
> > > 4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from
> > fresh-faced recent grads.
> > >
> > > All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that
> > posts an ad like this
> > > (and here, no less).
> > >
> > > Quirkily,
> > > Q.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> > >> Please forward widely!
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> > >>
> > >> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing
> on
> > >> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> > >> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns
> > will play a
> > >> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform
> on
> > >> Facebook.
> > >>
> > >> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for
> > quirky,
> > >> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a
> fast-paced
> > >> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3
> months.
> > >>
> > >> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor,
> > and the
> > >> name of the last book you read.
> > >>
> > >> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist,
> > ham...@graphscience.com 
> > >
> > >> --
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> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > site:  jilliancyork.com *|
> > *twitter: @jilliancyork* *
> >
> > "We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want
> > the seemingly impossible to become a reality" - /Vaclav Havel/
> >
> >
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Brian Conley]

Hamdan, the appropriate place for this is the libtech jobs list, unless you
are trying to raise some kind of discussion around the practice or the
company.
On Feb 21, 2013 6:44 PM, "Hamdan Azhar"  wrote:

> Please forward widely!
>
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
>
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
>
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
>
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
>
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
>
> --
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Andy Isaacson]

Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, but are often misused to
avoid minimum wage laws.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html
http://www.good.is/posts/unpaid-internship-unfair-likely-illegal-and-not-going-away-anytime-soon
http://www.moneysideoflife.com/illegal-internship-flowchart/
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-paradox-of-the-unpaid-internship/266964/

In particular, to be legal, the employer should "derive no immediate
benefit" from the intern's work, and the experience should be similar to
training given by an educational institution.  Neither of those is
likely to be true in the case at hand.

A venture-funded startup paying for office space in Palo Alto has no
legitimate justification to avoid paying a reasonable wage to qualified
interns.  Looks like GraphScience is funded by "EchoVC Partners" and
"Raptor Ventures":

http://www.crunchbase.com/company/graphscience
https://www.fis.dowjones.com/article.aspx?ProductIDFromApplication=32&aid=DJFVW00020120328e83sr7ds4&r=Rss&s=DJFVW
http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/raptor-ventures
http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/echovc-partners

-andy

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:20:07AM -0800, Jillian C. York wrote:
> Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, and how does it help anyone
> to spread untruths like that?
> 
> I'm not saying I'm in favor of them (I'm not), but a quick Google search
> shows you're wrong in most US states.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  wrote:
> 
> > Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
> > from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com)
> > GPG key: 0x1B873635
> >
> > On 2/22/13 10:16 AM, Q. Parker wrote:
> > > A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:
> > >
> > > 1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.
> > >
> > > 2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.
> > >
> > > 3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for clinical
> > trials.
> > >
> > > 4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from
> > fresh-faced recent grads.
> > >
> > > All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that posts
> > an ad like this
> > > (and here, no less).
> > >
> > > Quirkily,
> > > Q.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> > >> Please forward widely!
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> > >>
> > >> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> > >> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> > >> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will
> > play a
> > >> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> > >> Facebook.
> > >>
> > >> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for
> > quirky,
> > >> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> > >> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> > >>
> > >> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and
> > the
> > >> name of the last book you read.
> > >>
> > >> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
> > >
> > >> --
> > >> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
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> > >
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Greg Norcie]

Unpaid internships where you are not receiving college credit are
generally illegal, unless the business is "training" you and not
receiving an economic benefit. This is not generally true for a vast
majority of unpaid internships.

--
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GPG key: 0x1B873635

On 2/22/13 2:20 PM, Jillian C. York wrote:
> Unpaid internships are not universally illegal, and how does it help
> anyone to spread untruths like that?
> 
> I'm not saying I'm in favor of them (I'm not), but a quick Google search
> shows you're wrong in most US states.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  > wrote:
> 
> Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
> from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
> 
> --
> Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com )
> GPG key: 0x1B873635
> 
> On 2/22/13 10:16 AM, Q. Parker wrote:
> > A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:
> >
> > 1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.
> >
> > 2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.
> >
> > 3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for
> clinical trials.
> >
> > 4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from
> fresh-faced recent grads.
> >
> > All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that
> posts an ad like this
> > (and here, no less).
> >
> > Quirkily,
> > Q.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> >> Please forward widely!
> >>
> >> ---
> >> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> >>
> >> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> >> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> >> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns
> will play a
> >> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> >> Facebook.
> >>
> >> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for
> quirky,
> >> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> >> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> >>
> >> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor,
> and the
> >> name of the last book you read.
> >>
> >> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist,
> ham...@graphscience.com 
> >
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> >
> > --
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> site:  jilliancyork.com *|
> *twitter: @jilliancyork* *
> 
> "We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want
> the seemingly impossible to become a reality" - /Vaclav Havel/
> 
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[John Sullivan]

Greg Norcie  writes:

> Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
> from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
>

They aren't illegal in the US (especially not for nonprofits), as long
as they are truly an educational / job skills opportunity for the
benefit of the intern. They are illegal if they are unpaid labor.

-john

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Leigh Honeywell]

Unpaid internships are illegal and discriminatory.  In terms of "white
collar" labour practices, few things piss me off quite so much.

I'm not a lawyer, but the California Department of Industrial Relations,
Division of Labor Enforcement is pretty clear about what companies are
allowed to use unpaid interns for:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/opinions/2010-04-07.pdf

I'd call special attention to the following (federal, cited in the DLSE
letter) criteria for an "internship" being exempt from minimum wage laws:

(4) The employer derives no immediate advantage from the activities of
trainees or students, and on occasion the employer's operations may be
actually impeded;

You state that "Interns will play a valuable role in building the leading
social advertising platform on Facebook." I'm pretty sure that means you
have to pay said interns.

I've CC'ed your company's HR and recruiting contacts just so that it's
perfectly clear that your company is aware that this is likely illegal.

-Leigh

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Hamdan Azhar wrote:

> Please forward widely!
>
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
>
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
>
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
>
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
>
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>



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http://hypatia.ca
@hypatiadotca
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Cooper Quintin]

I agree, if you can stomach being in the belly of the beast it might be worth 
going down to interview with these guys to find out more about what kind of 
privacy invading technology they are developing.  

I suspect it is similar to 'Spokeo', which is a company that essentially 
creates a dossier on you based on social networks and public databases which 
anyone can access for a fee. 

Gregory Maxwell  wrote:

>On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  wrote:
>> Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course
>credit
>> from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)
>
>But such a great research opportunity to go find out about more
>privacy invading technology and the companies that are employing it,
>so that you can bring their unethical conduct to light and help
>develop counter-measurements!
>--
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Gregory Maxwell]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Greg Norcie  wrote:
> Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
> from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)

But such a great research opportunity to go find out about more
privacy invading technology and the companies that are employing it,
so that you can bring their unethical conduct to light and help
develop counter-measurements!
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Greg Norcie]

Unpaid internships are illegal actually. Unless receiving course credit
from a university  - then they're just morally unsound :)

--
Greg Norcie (g...@norcie.com)
GPG key: 0x1B873635

On 2/22/13 10:16 AM, Q. Parker wrote:
> A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:
> 
> 1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.
> 
> 2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.
> 
> 3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for clinical trials.
> 
> 4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from 
> fresh-faced recent grads.
> 
> All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that posts an ad 
> like this
> (and here, no less).
> 
> Quirkily,
> Q.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
>> Please forward widely!
>>
>> ---
>> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
>>
>> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
>> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
>> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
>> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
>> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
>> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
>>
>> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
>> name of the last book you read.
>>
>> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
> 
>> --
>> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Q. Parker]

A list enumerating some items which make this post objectionable:

1) Unpaid internships are wrong on a number of levels.

2) This is data-mining/graph analysis for spam.

3) "Quirky" should be a qualification for employment only for clinical trials.

4) The only thing this work will liberate is the will to live from fresh-faced 
recent grads.

All in all, I'd rather bag groceries than work for a company that posts an ad 
like this
(and here, no less).

Quirkily,
Q.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> Please forward widely!
> 
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> 
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
> 
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> 
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
> 
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com

> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Mark Nelson]

Actually Jurre I think I disagree.

It seems to me a company using the social graph to do "predictive
behavioral analytics" for clients who are "major Fortune 500 retailers" has
EVERYTHING to do with liberation technology.

When companies who know more about you than you know about yourself can use
data science, add some behavior design, and scale it up with persuasive
technology, all to make you

a) buy more of their crap, and (more importantly)

b) work for them for free (I'm _not_ talking about 3 month internships here
either)

then I think we are squarely in the domain of taking powerful technologies
that could be used for good, and applying them in ways that constrain
liberty so fundamentally that people willingly, happily, and
unknowingly enslave themselves.

This is very different from my idea of a more liberated future, so
personally I'd like to thank Hamdan for bringing it to our attention.

PS. We're we all upset when the Guardian broke the story on RIOT from
Raytheon? I must have missed that.

Best,

Mark


On Friday, February 22, 2013, Jurre andmore wrote:

> Not only is it spam, it has nothing to do with liberation technology,
> it's not even free and opensource technology, I thought this list
> would speak out against fascist companies like the one Hamdan Azhar is
> working for. But this appears to not be the case.
>
> We we're all outraged when the Guardian broke the story on RIOT from
> Raytheon[1] but nobody is speaking out against this one? So much for
> liberation technology huh!
>
> [1]
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/10/software-tracks-social-media-defence
>
> 2013/2/22 Hamdan Azhar >:
> > Please forward widely!
> >
> > ---
> > INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> >
> > GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> > predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships
> > for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a valuable
> role
> > in building the leading social advertising platform on Facebook.
> >
> > Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> > creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> > environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> >
> > Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> > name of the last book you read.
> >
> > CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, 
> > ham...@graphscience.com
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
>
>
> --
> With kind regards,
>
> Jurre van Bergen
> --
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Jurre andmore]

Not only is it spam, it has nothing to do with liberation technology,
it's not even free and opensource technology, I thought this list
would speak out against fascist companies like the one Hamdan Azhar is
working for. But this appears to not be the case.

We we're all outraged when the Guardian broke the story on RIOT from
Raytheon[1] but nobody is speaking out against this one? So much for
liberation technology huh!

[1] 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/10/software-tracks-social-media-defence

2013/2/22 Hamdan Azhar :
> Please forward widely!
>
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
>
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering internships
> for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a valuable role
> in building the leading social advertising platform on Facebook.
>
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
>
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
>
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com
>
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at:
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech



-- 
With kind regards,

Jurre van Bergen
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Re: [liberationtech] Internships available at leading Palo Alto tech startup

[Eugen Leitl]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Hamdan Azhar wrote:
> Please forward widely!

Please not. This is spam.
 
> ---
> INTERNSHIPS AVAILABLE AT LEADING SILICON VALLEY STARTUP
> 
> GraphScience - a Palo Alto based venture-backed startup focusing on
> predictive behavioral analytics in social networks - is offering
> internships for college students and recent graduates. Interns will play a
> valuable role in building the leading social advertising platform on
> Facebook.
> 
> Our clients are major Fortune 500 retailers and we're looking for quirky,
> creative, self-motivated individuals who would thrive in a fast-paced
> environment. Internships are unpaid and last for at least 3 months.
> 
> Interested? Email us your resume, your favorite ice cream flavor, and the
> name of the last book you read.
> 
> CONTACT: Hamdan Azhar, Lead Data Scientist, ham...@graphscience.com

> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
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