Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Would like to express gratitude to all on this list who have offered assistance offlist, I really appreciate it. Nothing is ideal, but so far it seems it was a very good idea to go. Here is an update and we are about to get more regular reporting out when our guys are in a bit safer situation than they are now. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-rohingya-movement-as-seen-by-a-journalist-in-burma All the best, Heather Marsh, @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-18 12:21 AM, Griffin Boyce wrote: Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. That seems problematic, and the person who passed on the details of location still has the risk (perhaps a greater risk) of being identified. Cell phones are extremely problematic too. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. Do not swallow SD or microSD cards, especially not unprotected. They're very likely to become unusable, to say nothing of potential health effects. There are a million ways to hide a microSD card on one's person. MicroSD cards fit into lockets, inside clothing seams, inside/under band-aids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive_bandage, in shoes, taped to the bottom of your foot, within bra layers (placement also makes sense because of small bits of metal here), in the bottom of a cigarette pack, in your mouth, under the lid of a water bottle, inside a flashlight, and any number of other items that make sense to have when crossing a border. It's 1cm x 1cm in size, and about 1mm thick. Get creative! For cameras that take SD cards, you can use SDMicroSD converters and smuggle out the tiny cards if you can get across the border. ~Griffin Boyce -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. That seems problematic, and the person who passed on the details of location still has the risk (perhaps a greater risk) of being identified. Cell phones are extremely problematic too. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. Do not swallow SD or microSD cards, especially not unprotected. They're very likely to become unusable, to say nothing of potential health effects. There are a million ways to hide a microSD card on one's person. MicroSD cards fit into lockets, inside clothing seams, inside/under band-aids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive_bandage, in shoes, taped to the bottom of your foot, within bra layers (placement also makes sense because of small bits of metal here), in the bottom of a cigarette pack, in your mouth, under the lid of a water bottle, inside a flashlight, and any number of other items that make sense to have when crossing a border. It's 1cm x 1cm in size, and about 1mm thick. Get creative! For cameras that take SD cards, you can use SDMicroSD converters and smuggle out the tiny cards if you can get across the border. ~Griffin Boyce -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Heather: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya Muslim people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. All the best, Heather Marsh So if you say that there's possibly a massacre the next few weeks, we should advise the media and journalists of this situation, so that at least it would be reported. So we have a basis for a war crime accusation. I personally think the the biggest fear of a regime like that is a world watching them. Andreas -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Hi Heather, First of all, I can't echo Jacob's concerns enough. You can find a concise overview of the risks of using satellite phones in a guide I authored last year: http://smallworldnews.tv/guide/ (specifically: http://www.smallworldnews.com/Guide/Guide_SatPhone_English.pdf) If you're still considering using a satellite phone, I would suggest that, with a clearly defined strategy, strong plan for success, and acceptance of the risks, there isn't likely to be a more effective tool for getting verbal or shortform text updates out. However this means you need not only people inside willing to take the risks to call out with updates and news, you also need a guarantee from journalists and news agencies outside that they WILL RUN the reports. Without guarantees that the news will be used/distributed broadly, its certainly not worth the risk. It's true that small cameras taking pictures on microSD cards which are then transported out by hand is SAFER, it may not be more effective. Again, without a complete chain of impact from creation to distribution of the media, nothing will be effective. If your colleagues will be producing video or photo content, I'd be happy to provide some advice/resources to improve their work. I'm happy to speak more, and may be able to put you in touch with some journalists who would be interested in traveling over, and/or using the reports your colleagues might produce. regards Brian On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:17 PM, ttscanada ttscan...@riseup.net wrote: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Brian Conley Director, Small World News http://smallworldnews.tv m: 646.285.2046 Skype: brianjoelconley -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
On 13-03-18 5:39 AM, Andreas Bader wrote: So if you say that there's possibly a massacre the next few weeks, we should advise the media and journalists of this situation, so that at least it would be reported. So we have a basis for a war crime accusation. I personally think the the biggest fear of a regime like that is a world watching them. Andreas -- Yes, exactly. Most media with half a clue is aware, this has been going on since last June and Rohingya persecution has been well documented for years, the problem is evidence. The Burmese government tells everyone who asks a) Rohingya don't exist or b) They burnt their own houses and left in boats because they felt like it, who knows where they are now. Yes, we need evidence. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Thank you, would love to talk off list. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-18 1:19 PM, Brian Conley wrote: Hi Heather, First of all, I can't echo Jacob's concerns enough. You can find a concise overview of the risks of using satellite phones in a guide I authored last year: http://smallworldnews.tv/guide/ (specifically: http://www.smallworldnews.com/Guide/Guide_SatPhone_English.pdf) If you're still considering using a satellite phone, I would suggest that, with a clearly defined strategy, strong plan for success, and acceptance of the risks, there isn't likely to be a more effective tool for getting verbal or shortform text updates out. However this means you need not only people inside willing to take the risks to call out with updates and news, you also need a guarantee from journalists and news agencies outside that they WILL RUN the reports. Without guarantees that the news will be used/distributed broadly, its certainly not worth the risk. It's true that small cameras taking pictures on microSD cards which are then transported out by hand is SAFER, it may not be more effective. Again, without a complete chain of impact from creation to distribution of the media, nothing will be effective. If your colleagues will be producing video or photo content, I'd be happy to provide some advice/resources to improve their work. I'm happy to speak more, and may be able to put you in touch with some journalists who would be interested in traveling over, and/or using the reports your colleagues might produce. regards Brian On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:17 PM, ttscanada ttscan...@riseup.net mailto:ttscan...@riseup.net wrote: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Brian Conley Director, Small World News http://smallworldnews.tv http://smallworldnews.tv/ m: 646.285.2046 Skype: brianjoelconley -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
[liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Dear Heather, ttscanada: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. I'm well aware and having just been in Burma, I'm sad to say that most people in the world are unaware; those in Burma that know seem afraid to speak out. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. Please be very careful - the communications systems in Burma are all highly monitored and heavily controlled. During my recent trip to Burma, I was part of a team that worked on a report about the communications systems in county. Please feel free to pass it on to people: http://www.opentechfund.org/article/access-and-openness-myanmar-2012 Satellite phones are extremely privacy invasive (interception, location tracking, etc) and short of the Cryptophone Satellite phone ( http://www.cryptophone.de/en/products/satellite/ ) used in a very specific way, I wouldn't even touch one of those devices if I thought that the Burmese military was possibly targeting me. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
[liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya Muslim people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
I've been learning about the recent history of Burma through a collection of Aung San Suu Kyi's writings and speeches. A quotation from her essay In Quest of Democracy written before her house arrest in 1989: Revolutions generally reflect the irresistible impulse for necessary changes which have been held back by official policies or retarded by social apathy. The institutions and practices of democracy provide ways and means by which such changes could be effected without recourse to violence. But change is anathema to authoritarianism, which will tolerate no deviation from rigid policies. Democracy acknowledges the right to differ as well as the duty to settle differences peacefully. Authoritarian governments see criticism of their actions and doctrines as a challenge to combat. Opposition is equated with 'confrontation', which is interpreted as violent conflict. Regimented minds cannot grasp the concept of confrontation as an open exchange of major differences with a view to settlement through genuine dialogue. The insecurity of power based on coercion translates into a need to crush all dissent. Within the framework of liberal democracy, protest and dissent can exist in healthy counterpart with orthodoxy and conservatism, contained by a general recognition of the need to balance respect for individual rights with respect for law and order. The words 'law and order' have so frequently been misused as an excuse for oppression that the very phrase has become suspect in countries which have known authoritarian rule. Some years ago, a prominent Burmese author wrote an article on the notion of law and order as expressed by the official term /nyein-wut-pi-pyar/. One by one he analysed the words, which literally mean 'silent-crouched-crushed-flattened', and concluded that the whole made for an undesirable state of affairs, one which militated against the emergence of an articulate, energetic, progressive citizenry. There is no intrinsic virtue to law and order unless 'law' is equated with justice and 'order' with the discipline of a people satisfied that justice has been done. Law as an instrument of state oppression is a familiar feature of totalitarianism. Without a properly elected legislature and an independent judiciary to ensure due process, the authorities can enforce as 'law' arbitrary decrees that are in fact flagrant negations of all acceptable norms of justice. There can be no security for citizens in a state where new 'laws' can be made and old ones changed to suit the convenience of the powers that be. The iniquity of such practices is traditionally recognized by the precept that existing laws should not be set aside at will. The Buddhist concept of law is based on /dhamma/, righteousness or virtue, not on the power to impose harsh and inflexible rules on a defenceless people. The true measure of the justice of a system is the amount of protection it guarantees to the weakest. gf On 3/17/13 2:29 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: Dear Heather, ttscanada: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. I'm well aware and having just been in Burma, I'm sad to say that most people in the world are unaware; those in Burma that know seem afraid to speak out. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. Please be very careful - the communications systems in Burma are all highly monitored and heavily controlled. During my recent trip to Burma, I was part of a team that worked on a report about the communications systems in county. Please feel free to pass it on to people: http://www.opentechfund.org/article/access-and-openness-myanmar-2012 Satellite phones are extremely privacy invasive (interception, location tracking, etc) and short of the Cryptophone Satellite phone ( http://www.cryptophone.de/en/products/satellite/ )
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 12:29 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: Dear Heather, ttscanada: Hi all, For those that aren't aware, 800,000 Rohingya people in Burma are being cut off from communication as the military and government try to drive them out of the country. Over 100,000 are being starved to death in concentration camps, the rest are driven into boats which neighbouring countries are refusing to allow to land. There have been two large scale massacres as well, one in June, one in October. Our contacts have been saying for weeks there is another massacre planned for the end of March, but even if there weren't, they are living in houses made of straw and plastic bags with no food or medical aid and the rains are coming. This is a full scale genocide supported by the current Burma/Myanmar government. Media and aid groups are blocked and the people are jailed just for having a TV, they have no phones. I'm well aware and having just been in Burma, I'm sad to say that most people in the world are unaware; those in Burma that know seem afraid to speak out. More information, check out over 100 pages of links here http://topsy.com/s/georgiebc+Rohingya?window=a the #Rohingya tag on Twitter or google. We have a way to hopefully get some journalists in to document war crimes. We need satellite phones for the Rohingya people as well, as many as possible, donated would be great. If anyone has any ideas for a good phone source it would be appreciated. Please be very careful - the communications systems in Burma are all highly monitored and heavily controlled. During my recent trip to Burma, I was part of a team that worked on a report about the communications systems in county. Please feel free to pass it on to people: http://www.opentechfund.org/article/access-and-openness-myanmar-2012 Satellite phones are extremely privacy invasive (interception, location tracking, etc) and short of the Cryptophone Satellite phone ( http://www.cryptophone.de/en/products/satellite/ ) used in a very specific way, I wouldn't even touch one of those devices if I thought that the Burmese military was possibly targeting me. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
ttscanada: Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. The situation with the Rohingya is heart breaking. :( If it is possible, I would suggest trying to bring cameras like the GoPro: http://gopro.com/ They're not easy or cheap in that part of the world. They are certainly easier to pass on, harder to detect and have a quality that is rarely available to any phone camera. Obviously, any camera is better than no camera for documenting but those are generally weather proofed for serious use. It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. I wish that there was more that I could offer but areas with the Rohingya is very hard to reach. If there is information that you would like to discuss more privately, I welcome contact with GnuPG or with OTR off list. If you are able to get the data to a major city, I think that physical transport *of a copy* will be your best bet for getting the data out quickly. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Very good points, thanks, Jake. We were thinking more of phones since it appears they are more paranoid of cameras than phones, but you have a very good point, phones are more easily controlled. Rethinking. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 1:25 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: ttscanada: Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. The situation with the Rohingya is heart breaking. :( If it is possible, I would suggest trying to bring cameras like the GoPro: http://gopro.com/ They're not easy or cheap in that part of the world. They are certainly easier to pass on, harder to detect and have a quality that is rarely available to any phone camera. Obviously, any camera is better than no camera for documenting but those are generally weather proofed for serious use. It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. I wish that there was more that I could offer but areas with the Rohingya is very hard to reach. If there is information that you would like to discuss more privately, I welcome contact with GnuPG or with OTR off list. If you are able to get the data to a major city, I think that physical transport *of a copy* will be your best bet for getting the data out quickly. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
In my work with the Rohingya and research into communications systems in Arakan state in the Western portion of the country, it was notable that there was data coverage spilling over from neighboring Bangladesh and people were using these towers to transmit information across borders. All the best, Mark --* @mbelinsky https://twitter.com/mbelinsky | markbelinsky.comhttps://markbelinsky.com| phone: +1-347-466-9327 | skype: markontheline * On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM, ttscanada ttscan...@riseup.net wrote: Very good points, thanks, Jake. We were thinking more of phones since it appears they are more paranoid of cameras than phones, but you have a very good point, phones are more easily controlled. Rethinking. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 1:25 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: ttscanada: Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. The situation with the Rohingya is heart breaking. :( If it is possible, I would suggest trying to bring cameras like the GoPro: http://gopro.com/ They're not easy or cheap in that part of the world. They are certainly easier to pass on, harder to detect and have a quality that is rarely available to any phone camera. Obviously, any camera is better than no camera for documenting but those are generally weather proofed for serious use. It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. I wish that there was more that I could offer but areas with the Rohingya is very hard to reach. If there is information that you would like to discuss more privately, I welcome contact with GnuPG or with OTR off list. If you are able to get the data to a major city, I think that physical transport *of a copy* will be your best bet for getting the data out quickly. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtechhttps://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/**mailman/listinfo/**liberationtechhttps://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
Thanks Mark, interesting. Was this recently? All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 2:18 PM, Mark Belinsky wrote: In my work with the Rohingya and research into communications systems in Arakan state in the Western portion of the country, it was notable that there was data coverage spilling over from neighboring Bangladesh and people were using these towers to transmit information across borders. All the best, Mark --_ @mbelinsky https://twitter.com/mbelinsky| markbelinsky.com https://markbelinsky.com| phone: +1-347-466-9327| skype: markontheline _ On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM, ttscanada ttscan...@riseup.net mailto:ttscan...@riseup.net wrote: Very good points, thanks, Jake. We were thinking more of phones since it appears they are more paranoid of cameras than phones, but you have a very good point, phones are more easily controlled. Rethinking. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 1:25 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: ttscanada: Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. The situation with the Rohingya is heart breaking. :( If it is possible, I would suggest trying to bring cameras like the GoPro: http://gopro.com/ They're not easy or cheap in that part of the world. They are certainly easier to pass on, harder to detect and have a quality that is rarely available to any phone camera. Obviously, any camera is better than no camera for documenting but those are generally weather proofed for serious use. It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. I wish that there was more that I could offer but areas with the Rohingya is very hard to reach. If there is information that you would like to discuss more privately, I welcome contact with GnuPG or with OTR off list. If you are able to get the data to a major city, I think that physical transport *of a copy* will be your best bet for getting the data out quickly. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
Re: [liberationtech] Satellite phones for Rohingya in Burma
I noticed while trawling media lately the Saudis have been using local boats to bring in some supplies? - Asher On 18/03/13 9:29 AM, ttscanada wrote: Thanks Mark, interesting. Was this recently? All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 2:18 PM, Mark Belinsky wrote: In my work with the Rohingya and research into communications systems in Arakan state in the Western portion of the country, it was notable that there was data coverage spilling over from neighboring Bangladesh and people were using these towers to transmit information across borders. All the best, Mark --_ @mbelinsky https://twitter.com/mbelinsky| markbelinsky.com https://markbelinsky.com| phone: +1-347-466-9327| skype: markontheline _ On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM, ttscanada ttscan...@riseup.net mailto:ttscan...@riseup.net wrote: Very good points, thanks, Jake. We were thinking more of phones since it appears they are more paranoid of cameras than phones, but you have a very good point, phones are more easily controlled. Rethinking. All the best, Heather Marsh @GeorgieBC on Twitter On 13-03-17 1:25 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: ttscanada: Hi Jacob, Yes, exactly to the security issues, which is why we have tried nothing to date, any Rohingya caught with anything like a camera or radio is tortured and killed. Ease of use is also paramount, there is no point risking lives to get a phone in that no one can use. We are unfortunately at final wipeout stage and the people there are agreed that the risk of being killed is 100% with or without phones. I don't know of anything except satellite phones they could use to document. The military is definitely paranoid of cameras, phones and outsiders atm. The situation in every refugee camp outside Burma is also awful, but still not at the stage where it is worth risking lives. We have managed to get some pictures (like of Rakhine flyers announcing the next massacre) but almost nothing out of Sittwe. There is plenty that needs documenting in the surrounding areas though. In any case, they know they will die, they don't want to die without a trace. I am slightly more optimistic that if we get some pictures out some of them won't die at all, we have it from good sources that the government is already very annoyed at the small publicity we have created and worried at the war crimes documentation. The government's official position is that the Rohingya don't actually exist, or if they did they just left. The situation with the Rohingya is heart breaking. :( If it is possible, I would suggest trying to bring cameras like the GoPro: http://gopro.com/ They're not easy or cheap in that part of the world. They are certainly easier to pass on, harder to detect and have a quality that is rarely available to any phone camera. Obviously, any camera is better than no camera for documenting but those are generally weather proofed for serious use. It seems like physical smuggling or geo-caching of the data would be much safer than a sat phone that can be *tracked* and *jammed* simultaneously. At least with geo-caching, one could pass along the coordinates for evidence later and then perhaps at a later date, we will have the evidence stored, found and released. As far as physical smuggling, I suspect that people would need to swallow the media cards or to sew them into clothing. That would allow the cameras to stay in the area but for the data to trickle out. I wish that there was more that I could offer but areas with the Rohingya is very hard to reach. If there is information that you would like to discuss more privately, I welcome contact with GnuPG or with OTR off list. If you are able to get the data to a major city, I think that physical transport *of a copy* will be your best bet for getting the data out quickly. All the best, Jacob -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
