Re: [liberationtech] Top secret PRISM program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Facebook and Apple

2013-06-07 Thread Andrew Clark
 Michael

Well I feel much better as Australian Citizen living out side of US.

Andrew Clark
andrewrcl...@mac.com



On 07/06/2013, at 10:32 PM, David Golumbia  wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Michael Rogers  
> wrote:
> "This law does not allow the targeting of any US citizen or of any person 
> located within the United States."
> 
> Note the wording of this denial: the *target* of collection may not be a US 
> citizen or a person located in the US. But if the *target* is, say, Al Qaeda 
> and affiliated organisations, does the law prevent data about US citizens and 
> persons located in the US from being collected and retained?
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> 
> 
> And in case one draws any comfort at all from these apparent limitations: 
> there is no chance that intelligence community representatives would take 
> advantage of very technical details of the wording of laws to, e.g., share 
> information on the citizens of other countries with whom it has formal 
> information sharing agreements but whom it is not supposed to directly 
> surveil, right? Because that would be kind of dishonest, and we know the 
> intelligence community is first and foremost dedicated to being truthful in 
> public. 
> 
> http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/essays/canada-and-the-five-eyes-intelligence-community/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Golumbia
> dgolum...@gmail.com
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by 
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Re: [liberationtech] Top secret PRISM program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Facebook and Apple

2013-06-07 Thread David Golumbia
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Michael Rogers wrote:

> "This law does not allow the targeting of any US citizen or of any person
> located within the United States."
>
> Note the wording of this denial: the *target* of collection may not be a
> US citizen or a person located in the US. But if the *target* is, say, Al
> Qaeda and affiliated organisations, does the law prevent data about US
> citizens and persons located in the US from being collected and retained?
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
And in case one draws any comfort at all from these apparent limitations:
there is no chance that intelligence community representatives would take
advantage of very technical details of the wording of laws to, e.g., share
information on the citizens of other countries with whom it has formal
information sharing agreements but whom it is not supposed to directly
surveil, right? Because that would be kind of dishonest, and we know the
intelligence community is first and foremost dedicated to being truthful in
public.

http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/essays/canada-and-the-five-eyes-intelligence-community/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement



-- 
David Golumbia
dgolum...@gmail.com
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Re: [liberationtech] Top secret PRISM program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Facebook and Apple

2013-06-07 Thread Michael Rogers
"This law does not allow the targeting of any US citizen or of any person 
located within the United States."

Note the wording of this denial: the *target* of collection may not be a US 
citizen or a person located in the US. But if the *target* is, say, Al Qaeda 
and affiliated organisations, does the law prevent data about US citizens and 
persons located in the US from being collected and retained?

Cheers,
Michael


Eugen Leitl  wrote:

>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data
>
>NSA taps in to internet giants' systems to mine user data, secret files
>reveal
>
>• Top secret PRISM program claims direct access to servers of firms including
>Google, Facebook and Apple
>
>• Companies deny any knowledge of program in operation since 2007
>
>Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill
>
>The Guardian, Thursday 6 June 2013 23.05 BST
>
>A slide depicting the top-secret PRISM program
>
>The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of
>Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top
>secret document obtained by the Guardian.
>
>The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM,
>which allows officials to collect material including search history, the
>content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.
>
>The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide
>PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to
>foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives
>on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly
>from the servers" of major US service providers.
>
>Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of
>the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on
>Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.
>
>In a statement, Google said: "Google cares deeply about the security of our
>users' data. We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law,
>and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege
>that we have created a government 'back door' into our systems, but Google
>does not have a back door for the government to access private user data."
>
>Several senior tech executives insisted that they had no knowledge of PRISM
>or of any similar scheme. They said they would never have been involved in
>such a program. "If they are doing this, they are doing it without our
>knowledge," one said.
>
>An Apple spokesman said it had "never heard" of PRISM.
>
>The NSA access was enabled by changes to US surveillance law introduced under
>President Bush and renewed under Obama in December 2012.
>
>
>The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live
>communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of
>any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those
>Americans whose communications include people outside the US.
>
>It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US
>being collected without warrants.
>
>Disclosure of the PRISM program follows a leak to the Guardian on Wednesday
>of a top-secret court order compelling telecoms provider Verizon to turn over
>the telephone records of millions of US customers.
>
>The participation of the internet companies in PRISM will add to the debate,
>ignited by the Verizon revelation, about the scale of surveillance by the
>intelligence services. Unlike the collection of those call records, this
>surveillance can include the content of communications and not just the
>metadata.
>
>Some of the world's largest internet brands are claimed to be part of the
>information-sharing program since its introduction in 2007. Microsoft – which
>is currently running an advertising campaign with the slogan "Your privacy is
>our priority" – was the first, with collection beginning in December 2007.
>
>It was followed by Yahoo in 2008; Google, Facebook and PalTalk in 2009;
>YouTube in 2010; Skype and AOL in 2011; and finally Apple, which joined the
>program in 2012. The program is continuing to expand, with other providers
>due to come online.
>
>Collectively, the companies cover the vast majority of online email, search,
>video and communications networks.
>
>
>
>The extent and nature of the data collected from each company varies.
>
>Companies are legally obliged to comply with requests for users'
>communications under US law, but the PRISM program allows the intelligence
>services direct access to the companies' servers. The NSA document notes the
>operations have "assistance of communications providers in the US".
>
>The revelation also supports concerns raised by several US senators during
>the renewal of the Fisa Amendments Act in December 2012, who warned about the
>scale of surveillance the law might enable, and shortcomings in the
>safeguards it introduces.
>
>When the FAA was first enacted, defenders of the statute argue