Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi Björn, Tor, On 24 January 2013 10:27, Tor Lillqvist wrote: >> with LibreOffice on Windows and OSX? That would make them available for use >> in >> default templates etc. Personally, I'd love to see it in LibreOffice, especially because it is one of the very few opensource fonts that covers so many character sets (Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic, IIRC). However, I thought there were a few objections to the UFL license's (renaming etc.) restrictions..? (For this reason, it is still not included in e.g. the Open-SUSE repositories.) Astron. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi Tor, On 24 January 2013 10:27, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > If the Ubuntu typeface is so unique as they say (i.e. instantly > recognisable) (or even worse, subconsciously recognised), wouldn't > using it in templates then be an endorsement of Ubuntu? Isn't > LibreOffice supposed to be vendor-neutral? As for its aesthetics, it is certainly somewhat unique, but not unprecedented. E.g. the commercial font FF Dax [1] has quite a few similarities. Following Google including the Ubuntu font in its web font repository, it has been used by others as well. E.g., it is widely used on the Sourceforge website. (It is of course still called Ubuntu which you could maybe see as an endorsement – which I think is one of the bigger mistakes Canonical have made with the font. "Segoe UI" isn't called "Microsoft," either. Same for "Lucida Grande"/Mac OS, "Roboto"/Android, etc.) Regards, Astron. [1] https://www.fontfont.com/fonts/dax/regular ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi, On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:13:43AM +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: > On 24 January 2013 10:27, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > >> with LibreOffice on Windows and OSX? That would make them available for > >> use in > >> default templates etc. And why should that be needed? > Personally, I'd love to see it in LibreOffice, especially because it I don't. Distro specific font... They can ship it if they want. > sets (Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic, IIRC). However, I thought there > were a few objections to the UFL license's (renaming etc.) > restrictions..? Yeah, For that reason it's /supposed to be in) non-free in Debian, see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603157. We shouldn't include non-free stuff here. Regards, Rene ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] Fwd: Word completion default value
Sent to Samuel only. -- Forwarded message -- From: Stefan Knorr (Astron) Date: 24 January 2013 16:40 Subject: Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Word completion default value To: Samuel Mehrbrodt Hi Samuel, while in general, I like this behaviour a lot better than the default, I guess right now, the tooltip is currently not visible enough. Maybe a coloured vertical line connecting the tooltip to the cursor would help here? Astron. PS: Thanks for checking blogs for suggestions. Very welcome. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
Hi Michel, Kendy, * sorry this comes so late... * tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work. On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky wrote: >> May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ? >> - why not keep the "own image" to select an image in local hd ? Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that. I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered. Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still doesn't work in master – so, given how... * we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works * we would need string changes to point out that background images and personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed) So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the background images feature from 4.0. >> - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have >> the choices : >> *Toolbar background* >> O Default >> O Image >> O Firefox Persona >> >> (I renamed "own image" to "Image") Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what Personas are would be nice (like "Use Personas to customize the background of your toolbar." not sure if needs any more than that). Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0. >> - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ? >> and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error >> loading persona, timeout...). Agree. * * * On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any real solutions, just fyi... http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html Astron. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
No, I don’t agree on removing the feature from 4.0. We should improve its rough edges instead of going the easy way. On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: > Hi Michel, Kendy, > > * sorry this comes so late... * > > tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work. > > > On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky wrote: >>> May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ? >>> - why not keep the "own image" to select an image in local hd ? > > Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that. > I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered. > > Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still > doesn't work in master – so, given how... > * we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works > * we would need string changes to point out that background images and > personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed) > > So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the > background images feature from 4.0. > >>> - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have >>> the choices : >>> *Toolbar background* >>> O Default >>> O Image >>> O Firefox Persona >>> >>> (I renamed "own image" to "Image") > > Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the > shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short > introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what > Personas are would be nice (like "Use Personas to customize the > background of your toolbar." not sure if needs any more than that). > Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0. > > >>> - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ? >>> and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error >>> loading persona, timeout...). > > Agree. > > * * * > > On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of > the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any > real solutions, just fyi... > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html > > Astron. > ___ > Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list > Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
Hi Fitoschido, On 24 January 2013 17:50, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > No, I don’t agree on removing the feature from 4.0. We should improve > its rough edges instead of going the easy way. You realise the 4.0.0 RC3 aka the 4.0.0 final release is going to be tagged beginning of next week and strings have been frozen for some time? Also, Kendy is on holiday until Monday. Astron. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> I don't. Distro specific font... They can ship it if they want.
What does it mean “distro-specific”?
> Yeah, For that reason it's /supposed to be in) non-free in Debian, see
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603157.
>
> We shouldn't include non-free stuff here.
Yeah, it’s considered “non-free” by Debian, but we can apply the same
logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif. But instead of removing
these from shipping in LibreOffice, Debian packaging should be the
place where these fonts are removed. Because its *Debian policy* which
should not obstaculize LibreOffice from shipping fonts to Windows.
--
Adolfo
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: > You realise the 4.0.0 RC3 aka the 4.0.0 final release is going to be > tagged beginning of next week and strings have been frozen for some > time? Also, Kendy is on holiday until Monday. But still, it’s too late to remove things. Too much hype this feature has created on blogs already... And people is still yelling that “we do not care about UI” or something like that... -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
Hi Adolfo, > But still, it’s too late to remove things. Too much hype this feature > has created on blogs already... And people is still yelling that “we > do not care about UI” or something like that... Note that I only spoke about the user-defined background images feature. Not about the Personas feature. These are two separate (but mutually exclusive, IIUC) features. Astron. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi Adolfo,
On 24 January 2013 17:56, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> Yeah, it’s considered “non-free” by Debian, but we can apply the same
> logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
> Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif.
Can you clarify why you think these fonts are not free? Afaik, they
are under the fairly standard, free AL2, or OFL, respectively. The
Ubuntu font otoh uses its own license that unfortunately adds
restrictions on when you can rename it and when you can't.
It removes value from our templates if you can't actually use them as
intended on some of the supported platforms, so the question if the
font can be found in all our main platforms is somewhat important.
Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Word completion default value
Hi Astron, I don't know what you mean with that, that it's not visible enough. I'm using Ubuntu and here it looks like every other tooltip: a black box with white text. That's visible enough for me. Samuel Am 24.01.2013 16:40, schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron): Hi Samuel, while in general, I like this behaviour a lot better than the default, I guess right now, the tooltip is currently not visible enough. Maybe a coloured vertical line connecting the tooltip to the cursor would help here? Astron. PS: Thanks for checking blogs for suggestions. Very welcome. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: > Can you clarify why you think these fonts are not free? Afaik, they > are under the fairly standard, free AL2, or OFL, respectively. The > Ubuntu font otoh uses its own license that unfortunately adds > restrictions on when you can rename it and when you can't. > It removes value from our templates if you can't actually use them as > intended on some of the supported platforms, so the question if the > font can be found in all our main platforms is somewhat important. Astron, the UFL is as permissive as the OFL and the ALv2. And I don’t think Open Sans, PT Serif and Source are not free, please re-read my previous message, it is Debian who thinks they’re not free, because they were created with proprietary software (read: not created with FontForge). My position on this is to continue shipping Open/PT/Source and add Ubuntu as well. But -- Debian would need to remove our fonts in their package. -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: > Note that I only spoke about the user-defined background images > feature. Not about the Personas feature. These are two separate (but > mutually exclusive, IIUC) features. > > Astron. Sorry, I misread! -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:56:29AM -0600, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> > I don't. Distro specific font... They can ship it if they want.
>
> What does it mean “distro-specific”?
"Ubuntu fonts". If it wasn't distro-specific it wouldn't be called "Ubuntu
fonts"
in the first place.
> > Yeah, For that reason it's /supposed to be in) non-free in Debian, see
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603157.
> >
> > We shouldn't include non-free stuff here.
>
> Yeah, it’s considered “non-free” by Debian, but we can apply the same
> logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
> Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif. But instead of removing
Err, you want to tell me we already have them in the sources?
> these from shipping in LibreOffice, Debian packaging should be the
> place where these fonts are removed. Because its *Debian policy* which
> should not obstaculize LibreOffice from shipping fonts to Windows.
Erm, you forgot this is a OSS project (aka "free software" for those who
don't like "free"[1]). So we must not ship them either.
Everyone who wants custom installers with that crap can add it *themselves*.
Regards,
Rene
[1] free as in beer.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi,
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 09:15:22PM +0100, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> > > We shouldn't include non-free stuff here.
> >
> > Yeah, it’s considered “non-free” by Debian, but we can apply the same
> > logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
> > Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif. But instead of removing
>
> Err, you want to tell me we already have them in the sources?
Ah, thankfully not. It at least is external stuff downloaded so I just
don't need to fetch that and don't need to repackage the core tarball...
(and new in 4.0, which didn't get get that much reviewed as not yet uploaded
to Debian...)
(And I build with -without-fonts anyway so I don't even need to fix the build.
phew.)
Regards,
Rene
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On 24/01/13 21:15, Rene Engelhard wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:56:29AM -0600, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Rene Engelhard wrote:
>>> Yeah, For that reason it's /supposed to be in) non-free in Debian, see
>>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603157.
>>>
>>> We shouldn't include non-free stuff here.
>>
>> Yeah, it’s considered “non-free” by Debian, but we can apply the same
>> logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
>> Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif. But instead of removing
>
> Err, you want to tell me we already have them in the sources?
it appears so, see
more_fonts/UnpackedTarball_{opensans,ptserif,sourcecode,sourcesans}.mk
but it can be disabled via --without-fonts
>> these from shipping in LibreOffice, Debian packaging should be the
>> place where these fonts are removed. Because its *Debian policy* which
>> should not obstaculize LibreOffice from shipping fonts to Windows.
>
> Erm, you forgot this is a OSS project (aka "free software" for those who
> don't like "free"[1]). So we must not ship them either.
hmm... if the problem is "can only be built from source with non-free
tools", then i'm afraid we've got a few components in extensions/ that
can only be built with MSVC, not with MinGW, and of course the Windows
binaries also bundle non-free MSVC runtime.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
Hi, On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 09:15:22PM +0100, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > these from shipping in LibreOffice, Debian packaging should be the > > place where these fonts are removed. Because its *Debian policy* which And sorry, that is wrong. the DFSG is (mostly) deintical with the Open Source Defintion. Becaudse *you* don't care about what "Open Source" is doesn't mean that all the people who care should do stuff to clean it up. Regards, Rene ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:56:29AM -0600, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> logic to the other “non-free” fonts added to LibreOffice, such as Open
> Sans, Source {Code|Sans} Pro and PT Serif. But instead of removing
This shows that you don't know what you're talking about, too:
- I assume with PT Serif you mean these:
$ tar xfvz c3c1a8ba7452950636e871d25020ce0d-pt-serif-font-1.W.tar.gz
pt-serif-font-1.W/
pt-serif-font-1.W/PT_Serif-Web-Regular.ttf
pt-serif-font-1.W/PT_Serif-Web-Italic.ttf
pt-serif-font-1.W/PT_Serif-Web-BoldItalic.ttf
pt-serif-font-1.W/OFL.txt
pt-serif-font-1.W/PT_Serif-Web-Bold.ttf
This is - as seen above - OFL, which *is* accepted in Debian.
http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#The_Open_Font_License
- I assume with Open Sans you mean these:
$ tar xfvz 7a15edea7d415ac5150ea403e27401fd-open-sans-font-ttf-1.10.tar.gz
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/OpenSans-BoldItalic.ttf
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/OpenSans-Regular.ttf
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/OpenSans-Bold.ttf
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/LICENSE.txt
open-sans-font-ttf-1.10/OpenSans-Italic.ttf
This is ALv2. OBVIOUSLY free
- I assume with Source * Pro you mean these:
$ tar xfvz 0279a21fab6f245e85a6f85fea54f511-source-code-font-1.009.tar.gz
source-code-font-1.009/
source-code-font-1.009/SourceCodePro-Regular.ttf
source-code-font-1.009/SourceCodePro-Bold.ttf
source-code-font-1.009/OFL.txt
This is also OFL. See PT Serif.
All free.
(On contrast to the Ubuntu one.)
Regards,
Rene
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Rene Engelhard wrote: > Becaudse *you* don't care about what "Open Source" is doesn't mean that all > the > people who care should do stuff to clean it up. Hello, Rene Engelhard. It is the first time you and I talk to each other, and we had never met face-to-face. Is this the way you talk to people, assuming things like “you don’t care”? This says a lot from you, and if you want to know: I do care, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t spend so much of my free time contributing to LibreOffice. Now, going on-topic: the UFL does not forbid LibreOffice from including Ubuntu [1], we are not renaming it, and honestly, calling it “distro-specific” based on just the name, is throwing bullshit. There is a cola beverage named Ubuntu, and it is not affiliated with Canonical, why including the fonts in LibreOffice would be interpreted as endorsing the distro? Even if it did, that would be a benefit to Debian, come on! Rene Engelhard, let’s not make this a discussion on the Debian bug you linked, this is not the appropriate place. [1]: http://font.ubuntu.com/ufl/FAQ.html -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > Now, going on-topic: the UFL does not forbid LibreOffice from > including Ubuntu [1], we are not renaming it, and honestly, calling it > “distro-specific” based on just the name, is throwing bullshit. There > is a cola beverage named Ubuntu, and it is not affiliated with > Canonical, why including the fonts in LibreOffice would be interpreted > as endorsing the distro? If the name was so inconsequential, why did the author choose a license that forbid _changing_ the name ? It is one thing to get distros to cooperate together one large project like libreoffice, it is quite another to purposefully try to piss-off their respective Marketing Dept. Norbert (who is not working for any distro, but can imagine why they would find that irritating) ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: > If the name was so inconsequential, why did the author choose a > license that forbid _changing_ the name ? > > It is one thing to get distros to cooperate together one large project > like libreoffice, it is quite another to purposefully try to piss-off > their respective Marketing Dept. > > Norbert (who is not working for any distro, but can imagine why they > would find that irritating) IMHO it is really wrong to imply we’re trying to do free advertising by suggesting the addition of the Ubuntu font to LibreOffice. That’s not the intent, and great typography shouldn’t go to the trash basket just because some don’t like the name. It is my desire that Windows users of LibreOffice —those who don’t know a bit about Linux distros—get another set of great fonts for their use and pleasure. (See also: http://pad.lv/703990 “Can the Ubuntu font license avoid advertising-style clause?”) -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: >> If the name was so inconsequential, why did the author choose a >> license that forbid _changing_ the name ? >> >> It is one thing to get distros to cooperate together one large project >> like libreoffice, it is quite another to purposefully try to piss-off >> their respective Marketing Dept. >> >> Norbert (who is not working for any distro, but can imagine why they >> would find that irritating) > > IMHO it is really wrong to imply we’re trying to do free advertising > by suggesting the addition of the Ubuntu font to LibreOffice. Sure, I do not believe Bjoern proposing to put that font in Lo is a marketing ploy; But certainly, in general, naming this font that way and using a license that prevent renaming is; Neither of these being under the control of Bjoern. (afaik :-) ) So, that was surely not done with LibreOffice in mind in particular... but still the intent is there... and even if not the intent, the consequences are. Note: I will abide by whatever decision is reached, either way.. _I_ don't care that much. I just wanted to point out that it is Rob-esque to pretend that the naming and licensing choice were a pure coincidence, with no marketing consideration... >(See also: http://pad.lv/703990 “Can the Ubuntu font license avoid advertising-style clause?”) Sure, the above rationalized it as not being an 'advertising clause'... but you still have to call it 'Ubuntu' or change it 'substantially' -- which would defeat the purpose of using them as a base for templates. It is hand-waving... (these are not the droid you are looking for...). Canonical is certainly free to do as it please with its creation... but let's not pretend that this is not, for all practical purpose, an advertising clause. Norbert. -+-+-+- "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
> "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, > then it probably is a duck." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test Oh well, I will not try to convince you, you seem to believe this is marketing. I’m not the appropriate person to keep arguing, because: 1) I’m a typography lover that happened to like Dalton Maag’s work; 2) I am an Ubuntu translator as well as LibreOffice’s (so you’d think I’m biased) and 3) I’m not yet a TDF member and I don’t seem to have more voice here than your neighbourhood complainer. The detractors of this proposal are pointing out unrelated issues with the font and excuses to not considering, people loves to hate Canonical —why is everybody happy to do “free advertising” for Ascender/Google, ParaType and Adobe then?— and I’m tired by today. So… -- Adolfo ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:44 PM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: >> "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, >> then it probably is a duck." >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test > > Oh well, I will not try to convince you, you seem to believe this is > marketing. I'm not the one to convince. as I said previously: "Note: I will abide by whatever decision is reached, either way.. _I_ don't care that much." > and 3) I’m not yet a TDF member and I don’t seem to have more > voice here than your neighbourhood complainer. Honestly I really don't think that anyone here will judge your arguments and/or opinions based on whether or not you are a TDF member or not. You are a contributor, and that is all that matter, to me at least. You are welcomed to voice you opinion and advocate for a proposal you think is good. Norbert ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] including Ubuntu fonts in Windows/OSX installers
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 04:51:11PM -0600, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > Becaudse *you* don't care about what "Open Source" is doesn't mean that all > > the > > people who care should do stuff to clean it up. > > Hello, Rene Engelhard. It is the first time you and I talk to each > other, and we had never met face-to-face. Is this the way you talk to > people, assuming things like “you don’t care”? This says a lot from > you, and if you want to know: I do care, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t spend > so much of my free time contributing to LibreOffice. Yes, we never met, but from your last post it *seems* you don't care, as you say LO should include the non-fee font and Debian should remove it. If you cared about OSS you would defend a software containing only that and would reject non-free fonts outright. > Now, going on-topic: the UFL does not forbid LibreOffice from > including Ubuntu [1], we are not renaming it, and honestly, calling it Not allowing to rename it fails the DFSG/Open Source Definition. > as endorsing the distro? Even if it did, that would be a benefit to > Debian, come on! Rene Engelhard, let’s not make this a discussion on How? Regards, Rene ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
