Goodbye

[Peter Toye]

Circumstances have dictated that I shall no longer be able to take part in 
discussions on this platform. I would like to take this opportunity to thank 
everyone here for their help, and offer my apologies, especially to Federico, 
Harm and David, for not being able to follow through with the help you have 
given me with the documentation.

 
Best wishes to all,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Doc: Some miscellaneous suggestions from Peter Toye (issue 579280043 by michael.kaepp...@googlemail.com)

[Peter Toye]

Sunday, February 9, 2020, 2:09:09 PM, you wrote:


>> On 9 Feb 2020, at 13:23, lilyp...@ptoye.com wrote:
>> 
>> -
>> Friday, February 7, 2020, 8:39:36 PM, you wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 06.02.2020 um 22:55 schrieb
>>> thomasmorle...@gmail.com:
 https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/diff/563480043/Documentation/learning/common-notation.itely
 File Documentation/learning/common-notation.itely (right):
 
 https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/diff/563480043/Documentation/learning/common-notation.itely#newcode162
 Documentation/learning/common-notation.itely:162: @notation{note names}
 and @notation{accidentals},
 Here I disagree.
> From wikpedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alteration
 "In music, alteration is the use of a neighboring pitch in the chromatic
 scale in place of its diatonic neighbor."
 An _accidental_ is the printed ♯-sign or ♭-sign, etc, indicating the
 alteration.
 Thus "accidentals" is plain wrong here. Please keep "alterations"
>>> That were my thoughts, too.
>>> But I ascribe more importance to Peter's
>>> opinion (as a native speaker)
>>> than to mine, so
>>> it is difficult for me to decide now...
>> 
>> Is 'alteration' an American English term? I've never heard it in British 
>> English. But our languages diverge... Are there any US speakers in this 
>> discussion? Wikipedia tends to have a US bias IMHO.

> +1, with respect to accidentals.  I'm an en_GB speaker.
>> 
>> 'Alteration' does not appear at all as a heading in the Oxford Companion to 
>> Music. However, 'accidental' is defined as a 'sign used in musical 
>> notation', which rather leaves open the question of how to describe a change 
>> to a note in the abstract. Something I've not really thought about. Hmmm...

> From a speed-reading of Gould, it appears that
> she uses the verb "alter" and the adjective
> "altered", but _not_ the noun "alteration" in this context.

> It is worth noting that "alteration" has a very
> specific and well-established meaning in early
> music.  This meaning has nothing whatsoever to
> do with pitch.  I've, ahem, altered that
> Wikipedia disambiguation page accordingly.

> The original section header in the LM seemed
> fine to me, but if it needs to change, how about
> "Note names and use of accidentals" ?  It seems
> to me that a user wanting to use the document to
> figure out how to specify an accidental, is
> quite likely to search for that word.

I like that one.

>> 
>> But this leaves me very unhappy about NR 1.1.1.4, which is called 
>> 'accidentals' when the first sentence is describing alterations: cis in D 
>> major is an alteration, not an accidental.
>> 
 
 Probably:
 @notation{note names} and their @notation{alterations},
 
 https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/

Re: Doc: Some miscellaneous suggestions from Peter Toye (issue 579280043 by michael.kaepp...@googlemail.com)

[Peter Toye]

-
Thursday, February 6, 2020, 3:00:35 PM, you wrote:

> An important nit to check...

> Besides this, LGTM, thanks!


> https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/diff/567170044/Documentation/notation/input.itely
> File Documentation/notation/input.itely (right):

> https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/diff/567170044/Documentation/notation/input.itely#newcode464
> Documentation/notation/input.itely:464:
> @code{αβγXII} or @code{Теноры}
> work.
> Not sure whether this works.  We are using
> Computer Modern fonts for
> typesetting the PDF manuals; this font family
> comes with some (limited)
> Greek support, but it doesn't contain glyphs for Russian...  Please
> check the resulting PDFs to be sure!

I didn't know this. But check 
https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/computer-modern which says that Computer 
Modern supports the Russian language (which I assume means that it has Cyrillic 
glyphs).

> https://codereview.appspot.com/579280043/

Re: Documentation suggestions.

[Peter Toye]

Dear Michael,

That's very kind of you. When my life gets sorted out I may return to the fray. 
I've got a few comments below.

I don't have a Reitveld account so can't reply there. Should I get one?

I have another small patch for LR: Section 1.1.4 the first example needs the 
version number correcting to whatever the next publication references. The 
other uses of \version are OK.

Best regards,

Peter


-
Wednesday, February 5, 2020, 1:08:55 PM, you wrote:

> Hello Peter,


> Am 04.02.2020 um 10:44 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> I'm posting this here, as no-one on the devel list has answered, although 
>> most of the discussion went on in that list.
> I think that many developers spend their effort on core topics like the
> guile-2/3 transition,
> or improving the contribution process, etc. at the moment.
> I prepared a patch, mostly following your suggestions. Now every
> developer can discuss your suggestions
> during the formal code review procedure.

I thought that too.

> The review is here:
> http://codereview.appspot.com/579280043

> The tracker issue is:
> https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/5738/
>> LM 1.2.1 Simple notation. Add a paragraph after the 1st music example:
>>
>> Note-names in all examples use the English or Dutch naming system 
>> (white piano keys are C-B).
> As Kieren pointed out it cannot be the English system (at least if
> alterations come into play),
> I think it is sufficient to mention the Dutch system.

I didn't give you a very good patch - I really should have said "Note-names in 
all examples in this section...". Later sections use alterations/accidentals 
freely, of course.

I'm slightly worried that new users who aren't Dutch will immediately be put 
off LilyPond by not understanding the very first real example, or thinking that 
they have to learn Dutch names for all the musical elements. Users of the Do-Si 
notation styles may like to know that they can use their native musical 
language.

>> LM 2.1.2 Pitches and key signatures. Subsection Pitch alterations. 3rd 
>> paragraph
>> (1)after 'alterations' add 'and note-names'.
>> (2) append:
>>
>> The default language for note-names and alterations is 
>> nederlands (Dutch).
>>
>> A question: is "alterations" a good word throughout this subsection? The 
>> normal English one is "accidentals", which is used in the Music Glossary 
>> reference.
> IMHO, alteration applys to the underlying
> process of "altering" a note,
> which is part of the input,
> "accidental" is the graphical sign that does
> show the alteration, hence
> rather part of the rendering.

You don't think it necessary to reference the default? Maybe that should be in 

Hmmm. I've never heard the word 'alteration' used in this context. If I refer 
(in English) to 'F sharp' I call the 'sharp' an accidental, whether it's 
printed or merely played/heard. 'Alter' can refer to any sort of change, not 
just semitone pitch adjustments. It might be an ottava sign, for instance. I 
also note that the corresponding section in NR 1.1.1 is titled 'Accidentals'. 
We should be consistent here.

I agree that accidentals aren't always alterations - they may be there as a 
courtesy to the player, or even prefixed to every note whether or not it is 
necessary.

>> 
>> NR 3.1.5 File Structure. Subsection Using variables. Add  a "Known Issues"  
>> subsection at end:
>>
>>
>> In addition to the normal convention for variable names [add 
>> reference to LM 2.4.1] variable names can include non-ASCII characters and 
>> non-adjacent single underscores and dashes. Any combination of characters is 
>> allowed if the variable name is enclosed in double quotation marks. In this 
>> case backslashes and double quotation marks need to be escaped with 
>> backslashes.

I mostly used David Kastrup's text here. I see that lemzwerg has objected on 
the grounds that "'Alphabetic characters' and 'non-ASCII characters' are not 
different sets but are overlapping".. I would point out that LM 2.4.1 uses the 
term 'alphabetic', presumably meaning [A-Z] and [a-z]. These are all ASCII 
characters. My text admits the use of single underscores and dashes, lemzwerg's 
does not. A reference manual shold be complete, while pointing out the 
difference between best practice (Alpha) and other forms of variable name.

I like the examples he gives, but should point out that 'HornIII' is composed 
entirely of ASCI

Re: Documentation suggestions.

[Peter Toye]

I've now consolidated the various replies to my original suggestions - sorry 
it's been so long. Unfortunately I spent far too much time fighting VirtualBox 
and Linux without as much success as I'd like. So here are my - fairly small- 
documentation ideas. Sorry I couldn't make formal patches but I'll be far too 
busy with the real world for the next month.

Peter



LM 1.2.1 Simple notation. Add a paragraph after the 1st music example:

Note-names in all examples use the English or Dutch naming system 
(white piano keys are C-B).

LM 2.1.2 Pitches and key signatures. Subsection Pitch alterations. 3rd paragraph
(1)after 'alterations' add 'and note-names'.
(2) append:

The default language for note-names and alterations is 
nederlands (Dutch).

A question: is "alterations" a good word throughout this subsection? The normal 
English one is "accidentals", which is used in the Music Glossary reference.

NR 3.1.5 File Structure. Subsection Using variables. Add  a "Known Issues"  
subsection at end:


In addition to the normal convention for variable names [add reference 
to LM 2.4.1] variable names can include non-ASCII characters and non-adjacent 
single underscores and dashes. Any combination of characters is allowed if the 
variable name is enclosed in double quotation marks. In this case backslashes 
and double quotation marks need to be escaped with backslashes.
---
NR 1.2.5  Bars. Sub section Bar and bar number checks. Add a "known issues" 
section at end:

If MIDI output is selected and volta repeats are in place, the bar 
number check may fail. It is best to suppress MIDI output whle checking bar 
numbers.
--
NR 3.3.2 Different editions from one source. Subsection Using tags. Add before 
paragraph 3 ("The arguments..."):

\tag, \keepWithTag and \removeWithTag are music functions which take a 
music expression as their second argument. Thus they cannot be used to filter 
items such as  \book or \score blocks.
--
NR 3.2.1 Creating titles headers and footers. Subsection Default layout of 
headers and footers. Rename to:

Default layout of page headers and footers

and index it as "page headers", "page footers", "headers, page", "footers, 
page".
Possibly also promote it to a 3rd-level section? It doesn't have anything in 
common with the previous two subsections.

Re: Is the CG out of date?

[Peter Toye]

Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:17:42 AM, Michael Käppler wrote:

> Am 20.01.2020 um 11:04 schrieb Michael Käppler:
>>
>> Attached is an extract of the CG pages we're discussing, with my recent
>> (yet only local) changes.
>>
> Urgh, sorry. Really(tm) attached now.

Just noticed a silly typo here - in 'Installing LilyDev in VirtualBox" step 11 
/keybord/keyboard/

Hope it's not too late, but doesn't really matter.

I was hoping to get my amendments to NR and LM organised, but haven't been able 
to as I've been having problems with VirualBox and am very busy now.

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 1:38:45 PM, Federico Bruni wrote:

> Il giorno gio 23 gen 2020 alle 22:11, Federico Bruni
>  ha scritto:
>> I will let you know when v2 is released.

> Now released:
> 

Grazie molto


Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Friday, January 24, 2020, 3:29:54 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> Friday, January 24, 2020, 1:32:32 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
>>

>> But if bash can't find the app in the first place,
>> clearing   the   hash   table   wno't   make  much
>> difference!

> I have no idea what you mean by "in the first place".

I mean that trying to execute lsusb by typing its name produces the bash error 
message saying that it can't be found. SO clearing the hash table won't have 
any effect.

> Have you tried

> hash -r

> or haven't you?  It is not clear from what you wrote.

Yes I did, but same result. But I've found that dpkg (which I've only just 
found out about) says that the package isn't installed, which would explain a 
lot.
So I've just tried using apt-get again. It came up with what look like the same 
set of messages, and this time lsusb works. Don't understand what went wrong 
the first time, but now it's sorted. Thanks for the help.

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Friday, January 24, 2020, 1:32:32 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> Friday, January 24, 2020, 11:34:24 AM, Peter Toye wrote:
>>
>> That's easier said than done. I found the relevant package name and
>> used apt-get to install it. At least, I think I did, but typing lsusb
>> comes up with bash: lsusb: command not found so that's obviously not
>> right. i tried searching for a file called lsusb but came up with no
>> result.

> hash -r

> or open a new terminal window.

But if bash can't find the app in the first place,
clearing   the   hash   table   wno't   make  much
difference!

>> So (newbie Linux question again) - where does apt-get put the
>> installed package? Or do I have to do something else first?

> Should be installed where it's getting found as long as your shell is
> not convinced otherwise from previous tries.

But it's not getting found - that's the issue! 

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Friday, January 24, 2020, 11:34:24 AM, Peter Toye wrote:

> Thursday, January 23, 2020, 5:40:00 PM, Michael Käppler wrote:

>> Do you think that 'lsusb' could be necessary? I think Federico's
>> intention was to keep the image as small as possible,
>> because one can easily install every debian
>> package in the stretch repo
>> afterwards.

> Fine, Makes sense. I'll work out how to get it.

That's easier said than done. I found the relevant package name and used 
apt-get to install it. At least, I think I did, but typing lsusb comes up with 
bash: lsusb: command not found so that's obviously not right. i tried searching 
for a file called lsusb but came up with no result.

So (newbie Linux question again) - where does apt-get put the installed 
package? Or do I have to do something else first?

Sorry for my ignorance. I think I shall have to buy a book - there's a 
wholeload in the catalogues, but I suspect most of them don't deal with this 
sort of question. I used to use Frisch for Unix admin help, but that looks very 
out of date (2009) now.

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, January 23, 2020, 9:11:34 PM, Federico Bruni wrote:

> Il giorno gio 23 gen 2020 alle 18:30, Michael Käppler
>  ha scritto:
>> 
>>  What we both noticed was that startup occassionally fails with a
>>  console prompt "Enter Maintenance mode...".
>>  Have you ever noticed this behaviour, too? I was not able to 
>> reproduce it reliably, so
>>  it's hard to track down.

> No, but I tested VirtualBox just a few times.

It happens about half the time on my system, and doesn't seems to correlate 
with any actions I've taken when booting the guest in. As Michael suggested, I 
just hit ctrl-D and ignore it.

> I will let you know when v2 is released.

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, January 23, 2020, 5:40:00 PM, Michael Käppler wrote:

> Am 23.01.2020 um 11:45 schrieb Peter Toye:
>>
>> I hadn't realised that your new instructions were for the next issue
>> of LilyDev. Are there any other missing bits? I noticed that some of
>> the utilities for listing hardware like lsusb aren't there.
> Do you think that 'lsusb' could be necessary? I think Federico's
> intention was to keep the image as small as possible,
> because one can easily install every debian
> package in the stretch repo
> afterwards.

Fine, Makes sense. I'll work out how to get it.

> Best regards,
> Michael

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 10:35:45 PM, Michael Käppler wrote:


Am 22.01.2020 um 14:03 schrieb Peter Toye:

> Yes, I would suggest that you start from scratch again.

That's because the keyboard-layout package is not installed in LilyDev v1 by 
default. In LilyDev v2, it will be there.

I hadn't realised that your new instructions were for the next issue of 
LilyDev. Are there any other missing bits? I noticed that some of the utilities 
for listing hardware like lsusb aren't there.



So the basic question is: why isn't it starting up? I used to be a Solaris 
sysadmin, but that ended 20 years ago and my copy of Frisch is long gone.
I don't really know because I can't reproduce this behaviour on my machine.

Oh dear. It looks as if I'll have to work out how to do it myself. I know 
there's a way of starting up programs on boot, but I've completely forgotten 
what it is. Will do some research.


Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 6:43:48 AM, Michael Käppler wrote:


> Am 21.01.2020 um 20:44 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox
>> This time after the reboot I got the same result. No sharing of
>> clipboard, no more processes. Tried closing VBox and restarting it,
>> but same result.
> Try to start the client manually and see what happens:
> /usr/bin/VBoxClient --clipboard

>>
>> There's one slight oddity: often (but not always) when booting the
>> LilyDev guest I get an error message - a bit too long to copy the text
>> so here's a screenshot:
>>
>> I don't know if it's significant. It doesn't change the clipboard
>> behaviour.
>  From time to time, this happens on my machine, too.
> I thought it would be a problem specific to my
> combination of VirtualBox
> version / host os
> and guest os, but if you encounter the same problem it could be a
> general issue.

It's not important as long as it's not significant. I thought it might be 
affecting the boot process.

>> It's possible that my hamfisted attempts to install LilyDev as a guest
>> without all the instructions has screwed something up. I could start
>> again tomorrow using the instructions you sent me and see if it makes
>> any difference.
> Yes, I would suggest that you start from scratch again.

I made a new guest machine using your instructions. There are a few issues 
here: 
 
Step 3: the file names are LilyDev-1-debian-vm and the raw fle is .iso not .raw

Step11: I got an error from the command:
[dev@LilyDev:~]$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-layout
[sudo] password for dev: 
debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Dialog
debconf: (No usable dialog-like program is installed, so the dialog based 
frontend cannot be used. at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/FrontEnd/Dialog.pm line 
76.)
debconf: falling back to frontend: Readline
dpkg-query: package 'keyboard-layout' is not installed and no information is 
available
Use dpkg --info (= dpkg-deb --info) to examine archive files,
and dpkg --contents (= dpkg-deb --contents) to list their contents.
/usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: keyboard-layout is not installed
[dev@LilyDev:~]$

So I used the mechanism in the current CG Step 8 to change the keyboard - 
probably a better idea and more user-friendly. Unless, of course, the clipboard 
is working.

After all that I tried your idea of starting the clipboard manually - it 
worked!! Or I'd never have managed to get the above text right :)

So the basic question is: why isn't it starting up? I used to be a Solaris 
sysadmin, but that ended 20 years ago and my copy of Frisch is long gone.

> Best regards,
> Michael



Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 6:24:25 PM, Michael Käppler wrote:


Am 21.01.2020 um 11:13 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox
Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:24:13 PM, you wrote:


Am 20.01.2020 um 16:04 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox
Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:26:55 AM, you wrote:


Am 20.01.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

Hmm...weird. Could you please check if the virtual box modules are loaded
with
lsmod | grep vbox
Which VirtualBox version do you use? What is you host OS?

lsmod gives: vboxguest2949120
There should be some more kernel modules running.
Please try reinstalling the guest additions at first with:
sudo apt install --reinstall virtualbox-guest-dkms virtualbox-guest-x11 
virtualbox-guest-utils

That didn't work: got a message:

E: Command line option 'r' [from -reinstall] is not understood in combination 
with the other options.
Seems you accidentally omitted one dash (should be --reinstall, not -reinstall)

Oops - the problems of not being able to do cut-and-paste between machines. On 
my terminal the two '-'s merged into one.

That command produced a load of output. Maybe I should have redirected it to a 
file.


Then reboot your virtual machine. If that does not work, please
post the output of

ps aux | grep '/usr/bin/VBoxClient --clipboard'

This time after the reboot I got the same result. No sharing of clipboard, no 
more processes. Tried closing VBox and restarting it, but same result.

There's one slight oddity: often (but not always) when booting the LilyDev 
guest I get an error message - a bit too long to copy the text so here's a 
screenshot:



I don't know if it's significant. It doesn't change the clipboard behaviour.



Without rebooting (there didn't seem much point) I got:

dev7010.00.011108932pts/0   
 S+11:100:00 grep /usr/bin/VBoxClient --clipboard

which I guess is the process that I just ran.


so that we can see if the shared clipboard service is running

Best regards,
Michael

All the best,

Peter

It's possible that my hamfisted attempts to install LilyDev as a guest without 
all the instructions has screwed something up. I could start again tomorrow 
using the instructions you sent me and see if it makes any difference.

Best regards,

Peter

   

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:24:13 PM, you wrote:


Am 20.01.2020 um 16:04 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox
Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:26:55 AM, you wrote:


Am 20.01.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

Hmm...weird. Could you please check if the virtual box modules are loaded
with
lsmod | grep vbox
Which VirtualBox version do you use? What is you host OS?

lsmod gives: vboxguest2949120
There should be some more kernel modules running.
Please try reinstalling the guest additions at first with: 
sudo apt install --reinstall virtualbox-guest-dkms virtualbox-guest-x11 
virtualbox-guest-utils

That didn't work: got a message:

E: Command line option 'r' [from -reinstall] is not understood in combination 
with the other options.

Then reboot your virtual machine. If that does not work, please
post the output of

ps aux | grep '/usr/bin/VBoxClient --clipboard'

Without rebooting (there didn't seem much point) I got:

dev 701 0.0 0.0 11108   932 pts/0   S+  11:10   0:00 
grep /usr/bin/VBoxClient --clipboard

which I guess is the process that I just ran.


so that we can see if the shared clipboard service is running

Best regards,
Michael

All the best,

Peter

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:26:55 AM, you wrote:


Am 20.01.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Peter Toye:

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

Hmm...weird. Could you please check if the virtual box modules are loaded
with
lsmod | grep vbox
Which VirtualBox version do you use? What is you host OS?

lsmod gives: vboxguest  294912  0

VirtualBox 6.1
Windows 10 Home update 1903

Hope this helps.



As it seems that you are keeping the CG up to date there's no point in my 
trying to help. We'll just get in each other's way.
No, definitely not! Your help is very much appreciated! 
When LilyDev v2 will be out and the CG patch is in review (in a few days, 
maybe), it would be great if you could 
walk your way through the install steps again and comment on every ambiguity 
you noticed.
And after that there will be >many< further sections in the CG that would 
deserve further clarification / extension.

Cheers,
Michael


Thanks,

Peter

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Michael,

I have to go out now - will reply this afternoon (UK time).

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:26:55 AM, Michael Käppler wrote:

> Am 20.01.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox
>> No, I didn't receive it. And it's not in my junk mailbox either, so it
>> must have disappeared entirely. That's a nuisance.

>> Clipboard was already activated as bidirectional. But it's not
>> working. I copied text from Lilydev but there was nothing in the host
>> (Windows) clipboard. I copied text from the host, and the Lilydev
>> clipboard had what I just copied from Lilydev. So it seems that the
>> clipboards aren't integrating. Or am I doing something wrong?
> Hmm...weird. Could you please check if the
> virtual box modules are loaded
> with
> lsmod | grep vbox
> Which VirtualBox version do you use? What is you host OS?


>> As it seems that you are keeping the CG up to date there's no point in
>> my trying to help. We'll just get in each other's way.
> No, definitely not! Your help is very much appreciated!
> When LilyDev v2 will be out and the CG patch is in review (in a few
> days, maybe), it would be great if you could
> walk your way through the install steps again and comment on every
> ambiguity you noticed.
> And after that there will be >many< further sections in the CG that
> would deserve further clarification / extension.

> Cheers,
> Michael

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Monday, January 20, 2020, 9:46:58 AM, Michael Käppler wrote:



Am 20.01.2020 um 10:34 schrieb Peter Toye:

Reposted with additions:


I'm slowly working my way through CG Section 2.1, but have reached an impasse. 
In "Configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox". Step 1 tells me to "install Guest 
Addition...". That's been changed to "Insert..." but that's obvious. The 
VBoxGuestAdditions.iso CD is in the virtual drive, but it seems but there's no 
autorun, and clicking on it merely asks if I want to eject it.

I've now worked out how to mount the CD, and I followed the instructions in the 
VirtualBox FAQ page to install the missing bits. But when I try to install the 
Guest Additions it says they're already installed. has the LilyDev distro 
changed to include the Guest Additions? Because, if so, I can't get the shared 
clipboard to work, and that's rather necessary for my setup.



Hi Peter, I did answer almost immediately: 


Am 18.01.2020 um 13:40 schrieb Peter Toye: 

I'm slowly working my way through CG Section 2.1, but have reached an impasse. 
In "Configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox". Step 1 tells me to "install Guest 
Addition...". That's been changed to "Insert..." but that's obvious. The 
VBoxGuestAdditions.iso CD is in the virtual drive, but it seems but there's no 
autorun, and clicking on it merely asks if I want to eject it. 

It looks as if there's a step missing, as the CD doesn't seem to be mounted in 
the file system, which would explain everything. But I'm not sure (as a Linux 
newbie) where to look for it. 
You won't need that. The guest additions have been incorporated into 
LilyDev. 
My patch for the CG will reflect this change. 
If you have problems resizing the VM window to full size, try to change 
the Display->Graphics controller to VBoxVGA in VirtualBox settings. 
You can activate clipboard sharing in General->Advanced->Bidirectional. 

So it seems you did not receive my response?
I did only reply to the list, but you should have received it, anyway.

No, I didn't receive it. And it's not in my junk mailbox either, so it must 
have disappeared entirely. That's a nuisance.

Clipboard was already activated as bidirectional. But it's not working. I 
copied text from Lilydev but there was nothing in the host (Windows) clipboard. 
I copied text from the host, and the Lilydev clipboard had what I just copied 
from Lilydev. So it seems that the clipboards aren't integrating. Or am I doing 
something wrong?

As it seems that you are keeping the CG up to date there's no point in my 
trying to help. We'll just get in each other's way.


Cheers,
Michael



All the best,

Peter

Re: Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

Reposted with additions:


I'm slowly working my way through CG Section 2.1, but have reached an impasse. 
In "Configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox". Step 1 tells me to "install Guest 
Addition...". That's been changed to "Insert..." but that's obvious. The 
VBoxGuestAdditions.iso CD is in the virtual drive, but it seems but there's no 
autorun, and clicking on it merely asks if I want to eject it.

I've now worked out how to mount the CD, and I followed the instructions in the 
VirtualBox FAQ page to install the missing bits. But when I try to install the 
Guest Additions it says they're already installed. has the LilyDev distro 
changed to include the Guest Additions? Because, if so, I can't get the shared 
clipboard to work, and that's rather necessary for my setup.



If someone could help I'd be most grateful. I realise that this mailing list 
isn't for support, but it seemed more relevant than the user mailing list.

Peter

Re: Is the CG out of date?

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, January 16, 2020, 7:40:55 PM, you wrote:

> Hello,

> On 16/01/2020 14:52, Peter Toye wrote:
>> Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 10:31:49 PM, you wrote:

>>
>> It looks as if one of my jobs is going to be bringing the CG up to date. But 
>> as I'm a total newbie here I'll need support in making sure that anything I 
>> write is accurate. Will the LilyDev system be likely to change in the near 
>> future? In that case there wouldn't be any point.

>>
> Perhaps the best way would be to 'remove'
> information from the CG and
> replace it with reference/links to the github location rather than
> duplicate instructions.

Good idea.. But until I can get an answer to the mail I posted on this list on 
18th I can't do anything at all :(

> James

Peter

Looking for help in configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox

[Peter Toye]

I'm slowly working my way through CG Section 2.1, but have reached an impasse. 
In "Configuring LilyDev in VirtualBox". Step 1 tells me to "install Guest 
Addition...". That's been changed to "Insert..." but that's obvious. The 
VBoxGuestAdditions.iso CD is in the virtual drive, but it seems but there's no 
autorun, and clicking on it merely asks if I want to eject it.

It looks as if there's a step missing, as the CD doesn't seem to be mounted in 
the file system, which would explain everything. But I'm not sure (as a Linux 
newbie) where to look for it.

If someone could help I'd be most grateful. I realise that this mailing list 
isn't for support, but it seemed more relevant than the user mailing list.

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Is the CG out of date?

[Peter Toye]

Dear Federico,

Thanks. The GitHub file has the changed file name (which I'd worked out), but 
links to the CG documentation which says to install it as Fedora rather than 
Debian. I'm a Linux newbie, and don't know if it will make any difference. Any 
hints are welcome.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 10:31:49 PM, you wrote:



> Il giorno mar 14 gen 2020 alle 18:21, Peter
> Toye  
> ha scritto:
>> I'm trying to work out how to run LilyDev in VirtualBox on a Windows 
>> system., but the information in section 2.1 of the CG seems to be 
>> inaccurate, and I suspect it's a bit out of date.
>> 
>> Under "Installing LilyDev in VirtualBox" the filename is given as 
>> lilydev-vm-fedora-VERSION.raw but the downloaded version form the 
>> website was LilyDev-1-debian-vm.zip
>> 
>> I assume that this is correct, but in that case should I install it 
>> as Debian rather than Fedora?
>> 


> Yes, the CG is not up-to-date.
> Please follow the README files in Github.

Is the CG out of date?

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to work out how to run LilyDev in VirtualBox on a Windows system., 
but the information in section 2.1 of the CG seems to be inaccurate, and I 
suspect it's a bit out of date.

Under "Installing LilyDev in VirtualBox" the filename is given as 
lilydev-vm-fedora-VERSION.raw but the downloaded version form the website was 
LilyDev-1-debian-vm.zip 

I assume that this is correct, but in that case should I install it as Debian 
rather than Fedora?
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: How to use LilyDev without systemd

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, January 9, 2020, 11:08:57 AM, Federico Bruni wrote:


> Hi Peter

> Il giorno gio 9 gen 2020 alle 10:18, Peter Toye
>  ha 
> scritto:
>> Dear Federico,

>> Thomas Morley forwarded you an email from 
>> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/A-suggestion-add-rf-to-built-in-dynamics-td226659.html

>> One issue in it was that my Linux distro (antiX) does not have 
>> systemd, and it appears from the documentation that LilyDev needs it. 
>> I am a Linux newbie, and don't fully understand the container system. 
>> Apparently you are the expert on this.


> Only the container (Lilydev-1-debian.tar.xz file) needs systemd.
> The virtual machine (LilyDev-1-debian-vm.zip
> file) can be installed in 
> VirtualBox or GNOME Boxes (or any libvirt frontend).


> Another option, if you want to keep your
> lilypond dev environment 
> separated from your system, is Debootstrap:
> https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap

> but then you must set up the system following the CG:
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/contributor/requirements-for-compiling-lilypond#ubuntu
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/contributor/requirements-for-building-documentation

> and build guile-1.8 using these commands:
> https://github.com/fedelibre/LilyDev/blob/master/mkosi/debian/mkosi.postinst#L42

> (copy lines 23-35 of that file to ~/.bashrc
> before compiling guile-1.8)


>> Is there any chance you could find time to let me know whether the 
>> container version of LilyDev will run under any of the 
>> easily-available container managers (Docker, LXC...)? If it wn't, I 
>> suppose that I will  have to try to find a Linux version that will 
>> run on my rather ancient laptop.



> Yes, if you can install Docker, you can use the Dockerfile contributed
> by Dan Eble:
> https://github.com/fedelibre/LilyDev/tree/master/docker

> It would be very useful to upload that Docker
> image to Docker Hub but I 
> haven't found the time to do it yet (especially because I'm using
> Fedora, which switched to Podman as alternative to Docker.. and Podman
> doesn't have yet the Docker-compose feature..).

Thanks very much for this. It seems I have quite a few choices. I'll have to go 
away and have a big think.

Best wishes,

Peter

How to use LilyDev without systemd

[Peter Toye]

Dear Federico,

Thomas Morley forwarded you an email from 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/A-suggestion-add-rf-to-built-in-dynamics-td226659.html
 

One issue in it was that my Linux distro (antiX) does not have systemd, and it 
appears from the documentation that LilyDev needs it. I am a Linux newbie, and 
don't fully understand the container system. Apparently you are the expert on 
this.

Is there any chance you could find time to let me know whether the container 
version of LilyDev will run under any of the easily-available container 
managers (Docker, LXC...)? If it wn't, I suppose that I will  have to try to 
find a Linux version that will run on my rather ancient laptop.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Sunday, January 5, 2020, 10:28:43 PM, you wrote:

> Am So., 5. Jan. 2020 um 14:20 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

>> But I'm really not familiar in any detail with the whole patching process, 
>> whether or not I use git directly or via LilyDev and/or lily-git and/or 
>> git-cl (the relationship between these components is a bit pobscure to me).

> git-cl is a different tool

I thought so - thanks for the confirmation.

> Once you've access to the source-files then
> many parts fall into the
> right place automatically, at least I hope so ;)

So do I :)

>> there's the business of submitting it. CG section 3 says at the head "Send 
>> patch files to the appropriate place:".

> Using git-cl will do the job for you.

Thanks.

> Well, the idea of mentoring is a very nice one. As far as I can tell it never 
> worked really.
> Though, you'll get always support here. At least as long as people are 
> available.
> Speaking only for me, tomorrow my winter-break ends, meaning I'll have less 
> time for LilyPond.

I see - I'll have to get to grips with git-cl then.

> I'm not a programmer, and I never got any formal lessons on it, i.e. I'm an 
> autodidact.

I was a programmer (and I think quite a good one) many years ago, but the 
thought of learning another programming style at my age (I last looked at list 
processing languages at university in the 1960s) is a bit daunting.

>> Also, I'm a Linux newbie - still trying to get my head around the whole 
>> 'container' concept. There seem to be a number of different container 
>> management systems: Docker and LXC to name but two. Does it matter which one 
>> I use? My system is systemd-free (on purpose), and the instructions you 
>> pointed out to me earlier imply that I should have it. Is this a 
>> show-stopper?

> Don't know. I hope Federico does. cc-ing him.

Thanks - I hope he has time to answer.

>Well, I have some practise in _writing_ mails, but you never heard my _spoken_ 
>english ;)

Better than my spoken German, I assure you.

Best regards,

Peter

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Sunday, January 5, 2020, 5:11:16 PM, you wrote:

> On 05/01/20 13:20, Peter Toye wrote:

> Any particular reason you're systemd-free? 
> Okay, my pc is, also, but I
> run gentoo which defaults to OpenRC.

I decided to go for antiX as I was able to get it to install on my antique 
laptop, which Ubuntu won't - diesn't have the right driver for the graphics 
card. And they don't like systemd.

> Most distros are systemd these days, it's much
> simpler and more reliable
> than SysVInit, and the people who are so vocal
> against it seem mostly to
> be in the "fanatic" category - "I don't like it so you should do the
> work so I don't have to use it". Sorry,  linux doesn't work like that!

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether the antiX team are fanatics or 
not. And I don't want to get into a flame war, thanks.

> Linux is only  "free" as in "freedom" - if  you want something you have
> to pay for  it one way  or another.  If you
> want "\rf" then  you  do it
> yourself or you get someone to do it for you -
> and if you do the latter
> then whether in money or kind you're expected to pay.

I was engraving some 19th century music which uses rf throughout, and was 
surprised not to find it built into LilyPond. I created a custom dynamic 
without difficulty (and several others which aren't built in). It's simply that 
I thought that adding \rf to the list of "normal" LP dynamics so that it would 
be useful. The reason I'm installing Linux (which I've not used before) and all 
the rest is so that I can help the community. I don't expect anything - apart 
possibly from some advice - for free, and I don't know why you should think I 
do.

> Anyways, I'll give you a little tip, and attach my "dynamics.ily" file.
> All my custom dynamics live in here,  and I
> include it in any work that
> might need them.  I'm *guessing* that it's very similar to the standard
> definitions that exist in lilypond,  so all you will need to do is edit
> the standard file and they'll appear by magic.
> Only snag, if you modify
> your local version of lilypond,  they'll
> disappear with any upgrade :-(

Thanks - I've got a similar one with a different selection!

> Cheers,
> Wol

Best regards,

Peter

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Saturday, January 4, 2020, 6:46:56 PM, you wrote:

> Am Sa., 4. Jan. 2020 um 16:44 Uhr schrieb Peter
> Toye :

> Well, coding new functionality is only one possibility.

...and debugging someone else's code is even worse. Especially in a language I 
dn't speak fluently.
But I'm really not familiar in any detail with the whole patching process, 
whether or not I use git directly or via LilyDev and/or lily-git and/or git-cl 
(the relationship between these components is a bit pobscure to me). And even 
when I've worked out exactly what text/code needs to go where, there's the 
business of submitting it. CG section 3 says at the head "Send patch files to 
the appropriate place:". But I don't have an official mentor (How does one get 
one? Ask for one here?), nor am I an "experienced developer" in any way. I 
imagine you are.

Also, I'm a Linux newbie - still trying to get my head around the whole 
'container' concept. There seem to be a number of different container 
management systems: Docker and LXC to name but two. Does it matter which one I 
use? My system is systemd-free (on purpose), and the instructions you pointed 
out to me earlier imply that I should have it. Is this a show-stopper?

> Sometimes there are typos/grammar/syntax to correct.

That's slightly more my line.

> Furthermore, our documentation always needs people working on it.
> Not being a native speaker I often hesitate
> doing so myself and if I
> try, it's a major task for me...

You could have kidded me - I think your English is at least as good as mine.

> Cheers,
>   Harm
 
Best regards,

Peter

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Saturday, January 4, 2020, 1:57:25 PM, you wrote:

> Am Sa., 4. Jan. 2020 um 14:02 Uhr schrieb Peter
> Toye :

>> Thanks. CG chapter 2 starts off by saying that LilyDev has everything I 
>> should need, but then only mentions how to install it under VirtualBox 
>> (which I don't know at all) in Windows or MacOS. I'm a Linux newbie and 
>> haven't used Unix since about 2000 (on a Sun box), so it's all a bit of a 
>> learning curve.
>>
>> Should I be looking at lily-git instead?

> Nope.

> Personally I'd follow "CG 3.2 Starting with Git", doing all stuff
> myself where needed. As said before.

Ah - the hair-shirt approach :) I'm too soft - spent too much time on Windows.

> If you want a LilyDev then:
> For LINUX probably best to download
> LilyDev-1-debian.tar.xz
> from
> https://github.com/fedelibre/LilyDev/releases
> and follow the instructions in section "Container" from here:
> https://github.com/fedelibre/LilyDev/tree/master/mkosi

So LilyDev always runs in a VM. Now I see what the documentation is getting at. 
I'm not sure my antique laptop is powerful enough so may end up with VirtualBox 
anyway.

>> I'm not an experienced git user, and  it's beginning to look as if a minor 
>> change to three text files is going to end up with me being swamped in new 
>> software :)

> Well, to submit a patch you'll need git.
> Once the setup works, you may want to do more than one patch.

I was rather hoping my coding days were over :(

> Doing development-work will always come along
> with some new software ;)

True

> At least the LilyDev-container will help a bit.

> Maybe Federico steps in, he knows his stuff best, of course


> Cheers,
>   Harm

All the best,

Peter

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Apologies.



-
Saturday, January 4, 2020, 3:23:30 PM, Dan Eble wrote:

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 06:09, Peter Toye
>  wrote:

>> Thanks for that. As everyone seems to be on all the mailing lists. I sort of 
>> assumed that cross-links wouldn't be necessary.

> I am subscribed to lilypond-devel only.
> — 
> Dan

Apologies

Peter

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Thomas,

Thanks. CG chapter 2 starts off by saying that LilyDev has everything I should 
need, but then only mentions how to install it under VirtualBox (which I don't 
know at all) in Windows or MacOS. I'm a Linux newbie and haven't used Unix 
since about 2000 (on a Sun box), so it's all a bit of a learning curve.

Should I be looking at lily-git instead? I'm not an experienced git user, and  
it's beginning to look as if a minor change to three text files is going to end 
up with me being swamped in new software :)

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, January 4, 2020, 12:10:23 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Am Sa., 4. Jan. 2020 um 12:09 Uhr schrieb Peter
> Toye :

>> Yes, I'm on Windows, but have just resurrected an old laptop and have 
>> managed to get a Linux (antiX) system on it. And there's a spare partition 
>> to install LilyDev. I'll download it today.

> Well, if you have a LINUX-machine, you may consider not to install
> LilyDev at all, i.e. clone the git-repo directly.

> LilyDev is meant to be used by windows users in a VirtualBox on their
> windows-system.
> It comes along with some other preinstalled things you will want.

> If you don't use LilyDev you'll need to get those stuff yourself.
> Otoh, going for LilyDev has it's own hassles.

> Your decision.


> Speaking only for me, I started with LilyDev,
> although being on LINUX.
> After some time I switched to my host-system for any LilyPond-work.

> Though I kept all old and outdated LilyDevs, to keep the possibility
> to compile checkouts of old patches for research-purposes.
> Using old versions of gcc, ghostscript etc
> I doubt you'll need that.

> Cheers,
>   Harm

Re: A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Thomas,

Thanks for that. As everyone seems to be on all the mailing lists. I sort of 
assumed that cross-links wouldn't be necessary.

Yes, I'm on Windows, but have just resurrected an old laptop and have managed 
to get a Linux (antiX) system on it. And there's a spare partition to install 
LilyDev. I'll download it today.

CG is a bit blank on what to do with the downloaded tarball though. Does it 
have a stand-alone disk image to install in its own partition, or should I 
install VirtualBox under Linux?

CG also seems a bit out of date as it mentions both Fedora and Debian . Github 
only seems to have Debian on it. Shouldn't be a problem - antiX is based on 
Debian.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, January 4, 2020, 10:36:09 AM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Hi Peter,

> Am Sa., 4. Jan. 2020 um 11:04 Uhr schrieb Peter
> Toye :

>> I suggest that \rf (for rinforzando) be added to the built-in dynamic list.

>> I suggested this on the users list, and got two replies, one fairly 
>> positive, one negative.

> Please link to previous discussions you refer to.
> Afaict, it's
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/A-suggestion-add-rf-to-built-in-dynamics-td226397.html

>> My rationale is that it's accepted as a synonym of rfz, and was used as such 
>> by both Beethoven (who also used rfz and rinf.) and Brahms. And also by a 
>> far lesser composer whose work I've just engraved.

>> As far as I can see, it would need an addition to dynamic-scripts-init.ly 
>> and modifications to both LM and NR (a rare occasion in which both manuals 
>> have the same information!). I'd be willing to do this myself if it's 
>> accepted, once I've got my head round the modification process (I may need a 
>> mentor here...).

> Iirc, you are on windows.
> I think best would be to set up LilyDev first.

> Cheers,
>   Harm

A suggestion: add \rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

I suggest that \rf (for rinforzando) be added to the built-in dynamic list.

I suggested this on the users list, and got two replies, one fairly positive, 
one negative.

My rationale is that it's accepted as a synonym of rfz, and was used as such by 
both Beethoven (who also used rfz and rinf.) and Brahms. And also by a far 
lesser composer whose work I've just engraved.

As far as I can see, it would need an addition to dynamic-scripts-init.ly and 
modifications to both LM and NR (a rare occasion in which both manuals have the 
same information!). I'd be willing to do this myself if it's accepted, once 
I've got my head round the modification process (I may need a mentor here...).
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Documentation suggestions.

[Peter Toye]

-
Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 8:06:06 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter (et al.),

>> 2. Neither LM nor NR mention that the default language for entering pitches 
>> is English.

> It is?! When did that change?

> If I write

> \version "2.19.83"
> { fis'4 }

> it compiles without error. So I think the default is not English.

Dealt with in previous emails to the mailing list

>> 6. NR Section 3.2 'Titles and Headers" is very confusing: the word "header" 
>> is used both for the \header command and for page headers. It is obviously 
>> far too late to change the former

> It’s never too late to improve the Lilypond codebase.  ;)
> Indeed, that’s exactly what convert-ly is for.

But easier I think to change the documentation as I suggested.

>> Also - should it be "Contributors' Guide". Presumably you have more than one 
>> contributor.

> It’s fine as is: it’s a guide for you to use if you’re a contributor.
> One doesn’t [usually] find a "Users’ Guide", right?

Sorry - missing smiley :(

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Documentation suggestions.

[Peter Toye]

I originally sent this to the bug mailing list. Thomas Morley suggests that it 
would be better on this list.



As an occasional and fairly new Lilypond user I've found that the documentation 
is occasionally obscure or misleading. I've made a few suggestions below.

I've used the 2.19.83 documentation as the baseline.

Have a great 2020.
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

1. There is no index entry in NR for the \language command. It is mentioned 
only once: in Section 1.1.1 'Note names in other languages' - I suggest adding 
an index entry for it.

2. Neither LM nor NR mention that the default language for entering pitches is 
English. This might be confusing to non-English newbie engravers. I suggest 
adding to LM Section 1.2.1 'Pitches' something like:

'By default, note names are written using English notation. You can change this 
using the \language command. See [add reference to NR 1.1.1 "Note names in 
other languages"]'

3. In NR 1.2.5 'Bar and bar number checks' I suggest adding a paragraph at the 
bottom of the section:

'Note that if MIDI output is selected and volta repeats are in place, the bar 
number check will fail. It is best to suppress MIDI output whle checking bar 
numbers.'

4. The characters allowed in variable names are only briefly touched upon: in 
LR 2.4.1 the use of only alphabetic characters is mentioned as a convention, 
while NR 3.1.5 states this as a requirement. In a LilyPond-user email David 
Kastrup said "It's alphabetic characters in the ASCII set plus all non-ASCII 
characters, potentially interspersed with isolated single underlines or 
dashes." From other hints and experiments it appears that any characters are 
allowed if the name is enclosed in double quotation marks. I suggest in NR 
3.1.5 'File Structure' in the bullet point 'A variable...' the last sentence is 
replaced by:

'By convention, the name of a variable consists of upper- and lower-case 
alphabetic characters only. In addition, non-ASCII characters and non-adjacent 
single underscores and dashes are also allowed. Any combination of characters 
is allowed if the variable name is enclosed in double quotation marks.'

I've changed David's wording slightly to be marginally more accurate (IMO). 
This may need to be checked for accuracy.

5. The context of the various \tag commands is not described. I had assumed 
that they were lexical items, similar to many directives for conditional 
compilation; this was not correct! I suggest adding the following text to NR 
3.3.2 'Using Tags', but I'm not sure of the best placement. Either close to the 
top of the section, before the examples, or at the very end, before "see also":

'Note that \keepWithTag and \removeWithTag are themselves music expressions and 
so must appear within a \score block.'

6. NR Section 3.2 'Titles and Headers" is very confusing: the word "header" is 
used both for the \header command and for page headers. It is obviously far too 
late to change the former, so I suggest that where page headers are implied 
they should be mentioned explicitly. In detail, in NR 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 the 
sections '...layout of headers and footers' be retitled:

 '...layout of page headers and footers'.

7. Contributor's Guide is a bit confusing. Section 1.2 'Overview of work flow' 
paragraph 3 says that a contributor's patch needs to be approved for inclusion 
(usually through the mailing list). But which mailing list? devel, bug or user? 
And who does the approving? Consensus? I made one suggestion on the user list 
and got 2 replies, one pro and one against. I can't suggest any concrete text 
here as I don't (but would like to) know the answer.

Also - should it be "Contributors' Guide". Presumably you have more than one 
contributor.


===8<===End of original message text===   As an occasional and fairly new Lilypond user I've found that the
   documentation is occasionally obscure or misleading. I've made a few
   suggestions below.
   I've used the 2.19.83 documentation as the baseline.
   Have a great 2020.

   Regards,
   Peter
   [1]mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
   [2]www.ptoye.com
   1. There is no index entry in NR for the \language command. It is
   mentioned only once: in Section 1.1.1 'Note names in other languages' -
   I suggest adding an index entry for it.
   2. Neither LM nor NR mention that the default language for entering
   pitches is English. This might be confusing to non-English newbie
   engravers. I suggest adding to LM Section 1.2.1 'Pitches' something
   like:
   'By default, note names are written using English notation. You can
   change this using the \language command. See [add reference to NR 1.1.1
   "Note names in other languages"]'
   3. In NR 1.2.5 'Bar and bar number checks' I suggest adding a paragraph
   at the bottom of the section:
   'Note that if MIDI output is selected and volta repeats are in place,
   the bar number check will fail. It is best to suppress MIDI output whle
   checki

Re: How should I submit ideas?

[Peter Toye]

David,

Thanks David. I'll think about it!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, December 28, 2019, 12:23:26 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> I hope this email gets through - I tried to subscribe, but haven't had any 
>> confirmation.

>> During my newbie attempts to use LilyPond I've had various problems,
>> all solved with the help of the community. I feel that some of them
>> could have been solved with slightly better documentation, and have
>> some suggestions.

>> I see from the CG that I should submit documentation patches to the
>> bug mailing list. I've got five. Should I put them all into a single
>> file submission or submit five separate emails?

> Trivial clear improvements like typo fixes can
> usually be bundled.  More
> extensive additions may warrant separate
> Emails/patches/commits/issues.

How should I submit ideas?

[Peter Toye]

I hope this email gets through - I tried to subscribe, but haven't had any 
confirmation.

During my newbie attempts to use LilyPond I've had various problems, all solved 
with the  help of the community. I feel that some of them could have been 
solved with slightly better documentation, and have some suggestions. 

I see from the CG that I should submit documentation patches to the bug mailing 
list. I've got five. Should I put them all into a single file submission or 
submit five separate emails?

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com