Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

lily/text-interface.cc updated.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Ouch...

The problem with '&' is that it fails on lyrics:
this works:
\new Lyrics \lyricmode { a&s; }

but this doesn't:
\new Lyrics \lyricmode { &s; }

There is the same kind of issues with almost every easy-to-type special
character:
@ % $ # \ / < > ^ ~ + = * ; ( ) [ ] { }

This is the exact list of every possible escape characters for a french
keyboard under linux:
§ £ µ € ¤ ¹ ² ' ` © ¨ ø Ø ≤ ≥ « » “ ” ↓ ¬ × ÷ ¿ ¡ ∕ ⋅ …

Of course, only a few of them are available under windows:
§ £ µ € ¤ ' `

If we consider US, british, german and spanish keyboards, this only
gives these two very bad characters:
' `

The best solution may be to solve this lyric problem first :\

Bertrand

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl Sorensen]

On 7/31/11 11:41 AM, "bordage.bertr...@gmail.com"
 wrote:

> I updated the patch.
> 
> There's now a list of special characters and a \replace command for
> markups.
> 
> The escape character is now '§'.  It's the only one that works great
> with lyrics.  And it isn't used elsewhere in LilyPond's syntax.

This escape is not available on US keyboards, so it's as much work to use
the escape character as to put in the UTF character directly.  For me, as a
US user, that seems to negate the purpose for the patch.

What was the problem with the previous escape characters?

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[pkx166h]

passes make and reg tests

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

I updated the patch.

There's now a list of special characters and a \replace command for
markups.

The escape character is now '§'.  It's the only one that works great
with lyrics.  And it isn't used elsewhere in LilyPond's syntax.

The syntax for using the list of special characters
#(include-special-characters) is a bit ackward but I didn't found
anything better.

Regards,
Bertrand

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[pkx166h]

passes make and reg tests

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

A new file in ly with definitions using "add-text-replacements!"?
Like this?

germanHTML = #(add-text-replacements! '(("&ss;" . "ß")
[...])

englishLaTeX = [...]

This way, users can easily stack special characters with this syntax:
\paper {
  \englishHTML
  \frenchLigatures
}

Besides, I made some performance tests.
With a big replacement alist, building Nicolas Sceaux's huge Atys takes
0.7s more than without it.

Thanks,
Bertrand

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

LGTM.

You could add a .ly file that defined a more comprehensive set of
special characters as an optional item that the user includes with
\include.  That would allow its use without requiring its use.

THanks,

Carl


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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Patch updated.
I abandonned the idea of including a special characters list.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[nicolas . sceaux]

A replacement function for text is a very good idea, and would be very
useful.

General comments:
A regtest for lyrics might be missing.

The current implementation of replacement function, in the C++ part,
need some rework.

An alternate design might be:
Define in the guile part the replacement function. The C++ code would
just call that function on the string. By default, the replacement
function could do exactly the job that is done in current LilyPond
version (replacing line feeds, etc, by spaces).
Another replacement function would be proposed, doing the work you
propose here, e.g. compiling and applying a regexp, instead of manually
implementing the replacement (in a possibly less efficient way than the
built-in would do).
And a \useTheFancyTextReplacementThing switch could select the later
replacement function.
(just brainstorming)

If the second replacement function has not much impact on performances,
it may even be the default.


http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters-shorthands.ly
File input/regression/markup-special-characters-shorthands.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters-shorthands.ly#newcode15
input/regression/markup-special-characters-shorthands.ly:15:
(additional-replacements text-font-defaults
The interface for adding replacements/shortcuts seems a bit complicated.
Maybe a function call modifying text-font-defaults behind the scene
would be better?

#(add-text-replacements! '(...))

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/lily/text-interface.cc
File lily/text-interface.cc (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/lily/text-interface.cc#newcode46
lily/text-interface.cc:46: for (int j = 0; j < scm_to_int (scm_length
(replacement_alist)); j++)
This is not the way to loop over a list: the idiom can be found many
times in the C++ code. scm_length and scm_list_ref are O(n).

What's more, at this point the `str' argument is not yet used. So maybe
this could be cached to avoid being computed again each time.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/lily/text-interface.cc#newcode62
lily/text-interface.cc:62: str->replace (i, j, ligature);
We see three embedded loops: while, for, and a call to ly_assoc_get...
The previous add only one loop.
What is the impact on performance, wrt to current version?

Have you considered compiling (and caching) a regexp and use the
appropriate builtin function which will do all the replacement work?

Or maybe... get this remplacement part out of C++ code, and define in
the scheme part a replacement function, that will be called here. A
default replacement function might do the \n, \t \v replacement alone
(as on current version). An other replacement function would be proposed
which does more complicated things.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[mtsolo]

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm
File scm/output-lib.scm (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode958
scm/output-lib.scm:958: ; Punctuation
On 2011/06/07 09:45:12, Bertrand Bordage wrote:

I understand your concerns and I'm a little embarrassed to introduce a

new

syntax for the risk of disrupting the users understanding. But it also

lacks a

lot of people.
In the list, I added the characters which are not allocated in the

French Linux

keyboard (except the ellipsis, the non-breaking space and the dashes).
It does bother me however to remove this list.


It may be worth testing this out on multiple platforms - I've sometimes
had difficulty opening up my .ly files on Windows machines if they
contain special characters.  To what extent is UTF-8 easy to work with
outside of a posix environment?

In general, one way to work this into LilyPond may be to include the
basic functionality, send the string-replacement-alist out to
lilypond-user, and see to what extent people desire to use it.  I've
done this for a couple things and been able to scrap/add functionalities
accordingly.  If it seems like it's something that many people would
want to use, then it should probably be part of the distro.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly
File input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly#newcode7
input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly:7:
#(define-markup-list-command (show-special-characters layout props) ()
It was a way to remember this piece of code. I will not do all the
documentation before deciding if the list remains.
Anyway, there are other examples of such lists in regression testing.
For example, 'chord-name-entry' or 'woodwind-diagrams-empty'.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm
File scm/output-lib.scm (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode958
scm/output-lib.scm:958: ; Punctuation
I understand your concerns and I'm a little embarrassed to introduce a
new syntax for the risk of disrupting the users understanding. But it
also lacks a lot of people.
In the list, I added the characters which are not allocated in the
French Linux keyboard (except the ellipsis, the non-breaking space and
the dashes).
It does bother me however to remove this list.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

Patch LGTM.  I still have concerns about  maintaining a list of ascii
definitions for UTF-8 characters, as described in the comments.


http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly
File input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly#newcode7
input/regression/markup-special-characters.ly:7:
#(define-markup-list-command (show-special-characters layout props) ()
If we're going to do this, this code should be added to the appendices
of the Notation Reference, so it will be included in the documentation.
I don't really think it should be part of the regression test suite, but
I could be convinced otherwise.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm
File scm/output-lib.scm (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/9003/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode958
scm/output-lib.scm:958: ; Punctuation
I'm still not convinced that we should get in the business of defining
these ascii-based characters instead of using UTF-8 directly as part of
the core lilypond distribution.  But if nobody else is opposed to it
then I will not maintain my objection and I will agree with the patch.

I have *no* objections to including the functionality with whitespace
defined in the default-string-replacement-alist, and having an LSR
snippet with additional replacements.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Done !
Regression tests are ok.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Ok, I'll change these. What about 'No.' ? '№', 'N°' or '&N°;' ?

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[k-ohara5a5a]

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/5002/scm/output-lib.scm
File scm/output-lib.scm (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/5002/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode959
scm/output-lib.scm:959: ("..." . "…")
("…" . "…")
("&emdash;" . "–")
etc.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/5002/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode974
scm/output-lib.scm:974: ("&ordM" . "º")
("º" . "º")
etc.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/5002/scm/output-lib.scm#newcode979
scm/output-lib.scm:979: ("&s" . "ſ")))
HTML just uses the unicode number ſ for long s, so maybe just &s;

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[k-ohara5a5a]

Philosophically, utf-8 is the One True Way, but I am sympathetic to laxy
typists.

On 2011/06/03 11:11:57, Bertrand Bordage wrote:

I don't know if replacement-alist should be defined by default.

The shorter the default list, the fewer surprises.
The keys should not include any possibly-desired input.


Nor if '&' is a good escape character.

It is reasonable, but draw from an existing string-replacement set like
HTML and use the closing ;.
Then we will be less-likely confused when I reference a&s records (or
when you reference r&s records) in a markup on a score.

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

New patch set with Carl's ideas.
I don't know if replacement-alist should be defined by default.
Nor if '&' is a good escape character. I chose it because it's quicker
to type on a french keyboard than '@'.

Bertrand.

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

On 2011/05/23 23:11:33, Bertrand Bordage wrote:

Making this easier should be the OS's job.


Yes, I agree.  That's why I'm not in favor of making it part of LilyPond
for us to maintain.

Having the facility to do the general substitution as part of LilyPond
is fine, IMO.

Having the list of all the Unicode characters is not a good idea.
Having that list as an LSR snippet would be OK.  That way it's not part
of the contract we have with users to maintain it.

Thanks,

Carl



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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

...definitely not user-friendly!
I totally agree it's better to type in UTF and that's what I always did
with LilyPond. But this REALLY wastes time when we type several symbols
and ligatures.
Making this easier should be the OS's job.
I'll think more about this and make another patch set.

Bertrand

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

On 2011/05/23 22:15:38, Bertrand Bordage wrote:

Yes.
Knowing this, I suggest we keep whitespaces, punctuation, quotes and

word

dividers (with some small changes).



There's still something that bothers me : isn't there some special

characters

that you can't do with you keyboard ?
Even on linux I can't type some symbols like ſ or • without

copying/pasting.

So, to your question "What is the advantage to typing \\aa instead of

å?" I

answer "I don't have any key for this".


See the Wikipedia entry on Unicode input for ways to get characters that
aren't on your keyboard:

 


HTH,

Carl


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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Yes.
Knowing this, I suggest we keep whitespaces, punctuation, quotes and
word dividers (with some small changes).

There's still something that bothers me : isn't there some special
characters that you can't do with you keyboard ?
Even on linux I can't type some symbols like ſ or • without
copying/pasting.
So, to your question "What is the advantage to typing \\aa instead of
å?" I answer "I don't have any key for this".

Cheers,
Bertrand

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl Sorensen]

On 5/23/11 3:32 PM, "bordage.bertr...@gmail.com"
 wrote:

> http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/lily/text-interface.cc#newcode40
> lily/text-interface.cc:40: int max_length = scm_to_int
> (ly_chain_assoc_get (ly_symbol2scm ("replacement-string-max-length"),
> It is needed line 50.
> This can be inferred from "replacement-alist".
> But with this property we can disable every shorthand or just those
> longer than replacement-string-max-length.

The ideas of disabling shorthands by the length of the replacement string
seems very hackish to me.  It seems unlikely to me that I would ever decide
which replacement strings to disable by the length.

To disable all replacement strings, we should have something like the
following functionality

#(define default-string-replacement-alist '(;  This would be your list
))


to enable replacements:

\override TextScript #'replacement-alist =
#'default-string-replacement-alist

to disable replacements:

\override TextScript #'replacement-alist = #'()_


> 
> @Carl :
> I agree for the .scm file.
> Why do you think it is going in the wrong direction ?

Because we are making up our own syntax for characters that are already
defined as UTF characters.  We should avoid making up syntax if at all
possible.

For the ligatures, I'm supportive; we don't have a text processor that will
automatically handle ligatures.

For the special characters like trademark, and super2, we should just have
them inserted into the file as UTF characters, IMO.

I don't think we should be trying to (for example) handle TeX input in
LilyPond strings.  I see that as a maintenance pain in the neck.

We're moving in the direction (if we're not there already) of correctly
handling UTF text.  Why not just let the person who wants to use UTF text do
so?  What is the advantage to typing \\aa instead of å?

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

Response to Reinhold and Carl's concerns.


http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/lily/text-interface.cc
File lily/text-interface.cc (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/lily/text-interface.cc#newcode40
lily/text-interface.cc:40: int max_length = scm_to_int
(ly_chain_assoc_get (ly_symbol2scm ("replacement-string-max-length"),
It is needed line 50.
This can be inferred from "replacement-alist".
But with this property we can disable every shorthand or just those
longer than replacement-string-max-length.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly
File ly/special-characters.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode1
ly/special-characters.ly:1: #(define special-characters-alist
@Reinhold :
Of course, otherwise it would be seriously annoying :o)
It is called "additional-replacement" in ly/parper-defaults-init.ly.
There is an example in the regression test.

@Carl :
I agree for the .scm file.
Why do you think it is going in the wrong direction ?
The main issue I see is that it makes the syntax messy.
This can easily be improved:
see the following response to Reinhold.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode14
ly/special-characters.ly:14: ("\nbhyphen" . "‑")
No, because '\' is sometimes an escape character (in '\t', '\n' and
'\v').
\markup "\n" si the same as (markup "\n")
whereas \markup "\g (or anything else)" that means (markup "\\g").
This is why there's only one backslash on the lines you commented.

There's also other problems with this use of the backslash :
as Mike reported, \markup { \solidus } or \lyricmode { \solidus } won't
work.
LilyPond will interpret \solidus as being a markup command.

And this will be hard for the user to understand the difference between
a command and an alias.

That's why I suggest this : use another escape character for these
special characters. Do you think '@' is a good idea?
Beside this, I will introduce this idea of "alias" in the doc.
Do you agree ?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode36
ly/special-characters.ly:36: ("_" . " ") ; thinspace
No, but there's '\_' line 55.
If I remember well, thinspace is '~' in LaTeX.
But the tilde is also used for tied-lyrics...
A better idea would be welcome !

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode85
ly/special-characters.ly:85: ("\\OE" . "Œ")
Yes, the replacement always takes the longest string found.

For these characters, I just copied LaTeX since I don't use them (except
æ and œ who already have a shortcut in linux's french keyboard).
But LaTeX may be wrong for this.
The international community will have to improve and complete this
table.

Another detail : every character in this alist is defined in Century
Schoolbook.

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[Carl . D . Sorensen]

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/lily/text-interface.cc
File lily/text-interface.cc (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/lily/text-interface.cc#newcode40
lily/text-interface.cc:40: int max_length = scm_to_int
(ly_chain_assoc_get (ly_symbol2scm ("replacement-string-max-length"),
Why is string-max-length needed?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly
File ly/special-characters.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode1
ly/special-characters.ly:1: #(define special-characters-alist
I think this should be a .scm file, rather than a .ly file.

I'm concerned about the default position of moving from UTF-* to ascii
for special characters.  I think that's moving in the wrong direction.

I do think the ligature replacement is very good.

But I could easily be persuaded that this is the right thing to do.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[reinhold . kainhofer]

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly
File ly/special-characters.ly (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode1
ly/special-characters.ly:1: #(define special-characters-alist
Is there any (public) command to add a replacement to that alist (or
remove one)?
Or do you have to repeat the whole list if you want to add/remove just
one entry?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode14
ly/special-characters.ly:14: ("\nbhyphen" . "‑")
\\nbhyphen?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode36
ly/special-characters.ly:36: ("_" . " ") ; thinspace
Will this work with words that have a wanted underscore? Or will the
underscore always be replaced with a thinspace?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode41
ly/special-characters.ly:41: ("\textbullet" . "•")
\\textbullet ?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode80
ly/special-characters.ly:80: ("\ng" . "ŋ")
Should that be \\ng?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode85
ly/special-characters.ly:85: ("\\OE" . "Œ")
Is the replacement always done on the longest string found? In
particular, if you wan to write ØE (Øe is a danish name apparently),
you'll have to use \\OE, which might or might not be matched with the
sequence for Πinstead...

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode88
ly/special-characters.ly:88: ("\th" . "þ")
\\th?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode94
ly/special-characters.ly:94: ("\times" . "×")
\\times

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode97
ly/special-characters.ly:97: ("\twosuperior" . "²")
\\twosupererior

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/diff/1/ly/special-characters.ly#newcode98
ly/special-characters.ly:98: ("\threesuperior" . "³")
\\threesuperior ?

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/
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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On May 23, 2011, at 1:08 PM, bordage.bertr...@gmail.com wrote:

> (1) You can do it using \override #'(replacement-string-max-length . 0)
>But I agree, there's a problem with backslashes.

I am the worst person in the world for advice on the most straightforward way 
to do something...I'll let others chime in on how to solve this problem.  You 
may want to note as well in the docs that if someone puts:

\markup { \italic { foo \emdash bar } }

Lilypond will think \emdash is a function.  They'd need to do: \markup { 
\italic { foo "\emdash" bar } }

> (2) What if we define something like "\tz" when we want 'ꜩ' and just
> write "tz" when no ligature is needed ? This isn' t so constraining.

This sounds like a good idea!

> (3) I know, this is another change to be done. And when this patch will
> be pushed, I'll take time to add a doc entry.
> 

Good stuff.

Cheers,
Mike


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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

(1) You can do it using \override #'(replacement-string-max-length . 0)
But I agree, there's a problem with backslashes.
(2) What if we define something like "\tz" when we want 'ꜩ' and just
write "tz" when no ligature is needed ? This isn' t so constraining.
(3) I know, this is another change to be done. And when this patch will
be pushed, I'll take time to add a doc entry.

Bertrand

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/
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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On May 23, 2011, at 12:38 PM, bordage.bertr...@gmail.com wrote:

> This prints every character with its shorthand, but works bad because of
> '\t', '\v' and '\n' :
> 
> \version "2.15.0"
> \include "special-characters.ly"
> #(define-markup-list-command (show-special-characters layout props) ()
> (interpret-markup-list layout props
>   (map (lambda (pair)
>(markup #:fill-line (
>#:null
>#:override
> 
> '(replacement-string-max-length . 0)
>(car pair)
>(car pair)
>#:null)))
>special-characters-alist)))
> \markuplines \show-special-characters


Good work!

A couple things :

(1) If I want to write "\emdash is a command in lilypond", that won't work 
(I think) with this patch.  You need to create either a ("" . "\\") special 
character or another workaround for the backslash.
(2) For ligatures that arrive at the end of the word like in some German 
texts, you'll need to figure out where the ligature falls in the word.  Writing 
a single exception to do this in C++ is easy, but if ligatures are any hairier 
than this (i.e. if in Nabakov's Zemblan there is an ie ligature except after 
c), then you'd be better off porting the whole thing to Scheme and doing it via 
regular expressions or some other sorta text replacement algorithm.  The added 
advantage of this is that users can specify their own rules.
(3) Newbs will invariably learn about this feature, want to use it, and 
then complain that the ligature they want is in a different font than Century 
Schoolbook in the PDF.  Perhaps lilypond should issue a warning if a character 
is found in a font that is not the one you currently have selected like 
"Warning: Charater `foo' found, but not in the current font."

Cheers,
MS
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Re: New alist to replace special characters. (issue4553056)

[bordage . bertrand]

This prints every character with its shorthand, but works bad because of
'\t', '\v' and '\n' :

\version "2.15.0"
\include "special-characters.ly"
#(define-markup-list-command (show-special-characters layout props) ()
 (interpret-markup-list layout props
   (map (lambda (pair)
(markup #:fill-line (
#:null
#:override

'(replacement-string-max-length . 0)
(car pair)
(car pair)
#:null)))
special-characters-alist)))
\markuplines \show-special-characters

http://codereview.appspot.com/4553056/

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