Re: Manual engraving video

[Arvid Grøtting]

Joseph Haig  gmail.com> writes:

> Note the second comment: "It will be a long time before this beautiful
> process can be replicated by computers."  Erm ...

It took Henle three years, from the video was made in 1997 until they stopped
hand-engraving in 2000.  Three years should not be a long time from a music
publisher's point of view...

Anyway.  I'm considering placing an order for HN 901 with one of my music
dealers.  I hope it's a used item, though... ;-)

-- 

Arvid





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Re: lily doc in french ?

[Jean-marc LEGRAND]

Wow : my first question should have been : does anything already exists !

Your answer makes me really happy !

I've just suscribed to the french mailing list, and I'm still postulating to 
the translation team !

Just one question : are the two lists linked together ? Or is there a french 
lilyworld and a english
spoken one ?

Anyway, je me lance dans la liste française !

A très bientôt
PS : merci aux personnes qui ont répondu à mon appel !

JMarc



   
 John Mandereau
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  

  A
 21/11/2006 23:28Jean-marc LEGRAND <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>

 cc
 lilypond-user@gnu.org 

  Objet
 Re: lily doc in french ?
   
   
   
   
   
   




Le mardi 21 novembre 2006 à 16:50 +0100, Jean-marc LEGRAND a écrit :

> Hi all !
>
> Two years have passed, and I'm still wondering if a french translation of 
> Lilypond Docs wouldn't
be
> a good thing (well, for french users, I think...). Here's my previous mail on 
> this question, and
> Mat's answer was quite wise (I was just discovering Lilypond)
> :http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg07983.html

I hope you've noticed lilypond.org French translation, released together
with LilyPond 2.6 in June 2005.

Don't miss the one-year-old [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list, where
French-speaking users give and get support and discuss translations.
Suscribe to it at http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user-fr
and you'll be welcome to the translation team!



> Would anyone be ok to translate the docs with me ? I know that lily evolves a 
> lot, and it's a good
> thing ! But if we manage to translate 2.10 docs together (lots of 
> "togethers", actually), I think
> updates can be quite easy if we are numerous enough.
>
> The fact is this has to be strongly organized, by someone who is in charge of 
> doc, for example ;o)

All this won't be a problem, and it's a hot topic!


> - does any french user is ok to translate the doc ?

In fact, the tutorial is already translated, see
http://john.mandereau.free.fr
That's a draft which will be removed as soon as it is integrated in the
official docs.


> - is a lily author ok to manage a translation team ?

If managing the translation team means telling what should be
translated, managing commits to the git source repository, helping
translators with technical aspects, I am one of the French managers.

More actually, the Translations Big Boss is one of LilyPond authors, Jan
Nieuwenhuizen, who is currently working on integration of translated
docs into the official docs.

So, for any French translation question, please send a email to the
lilypond-user-fr list first; then, if a complex or technical issue that
I can't solve appears, we'll forward the discussion to the appropriate
English-speaking list.


Cheers,
--
John Mandereau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>





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which language for programming

[Jean-marc LEGRAND]

hi all !

I'm trying to choose a language to learn programming. i know, it depends en 
what I want dto do with
it : but I don't have particular project on my table.

So I was wondering if a good idea wouldn't be to use the same language as 
lilypond, which is C++, i
think.

My questions are :

- is C++ the language used for lilypond sources ?
- are the different tools, espacially in §12, but also in all chaging default 
tricks, based upon C++
?

Well, if I learn to use C++, will I be able to help, in a few years, lily dev ?

Best regards !

JMarc



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RE: which language for programming

[Ed Ardzinski]

I am a programmer so I'll give a few comments...


I'm trying to choose a language to learn programming.


Very well and admirable.  Programming is nothing mysterious.  Juat a 
rigorous application of logic.  IMO creating a computer program is not all 
that much different from writing a piece of music.



but I don't have particular project on my table.


This is somewhat of a problem.  You can get tutorial books, but unless you 
have something in mind that you want to do the tutorial books can become 
dead ends.


So I was wondering if a good idea wouldn't be to use the same language as 
lilypond


If Lilypond is written in C++ (and I do see some hints of C type syntax when 
I use Lilypond) this *might* be a factor to consider.  But... C and C++ are 
fairly complex languages and have steep learning curves.  If you an abject 
beginner with programming I suggest starting out with Visual Basic and 
concentrating on trying to develop good programming practices.  That will 
make a switch to a more difficult language easier.


Good luck!

_
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme002001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview




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Re: lily doc in french ?

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Jean-marc LEGRAND <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Wow : my first question should have been : does anything already exists !

An experimental version is now available on

http://peder.xs4all.nl/fr

Click on -> Tutorial >>> bottom of page -> French

This url will disappear when the manual is released.  There are known
bugs here (no content negociation, polishing of translation).

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien   | http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: which language for programming

[Doug Wellington]

Previously:

If you an abject beginner with programming I suggest starting out with Visual 
Basic


Excellent idea if you're on a Windows platform.  If you're on a Mac,
you might try AppleScript, which will let you build useful little
applications quickly, somewhat like VB.  If you're using Linux or some
other Unix system, I'd suggest Python or maybe Ruby...

Doug


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Re: which language for programming

[bbarros]

python?

it has a simple syntax and it is very powerful,
a nice first language and for experienced programmers too.

2006/11/22, Ed Ardzinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


I am a programmer so I'll give a few comments...

>I'm trying to choose a language to learn programming.

Very well and admirable.  Programming is nothing mysterious.  Juat a
rigorous application of logic.  IMO creating a computer program is not all
that much different from writing a piece of music.

>but I don't have particular project on my table.

This is somewhat of a problem.  You can get tutorial books, but unless you
have something in mind that you want to do the tutorial books can become
dead ends.

>So I was wondering if a good idea wouldn't be to use the same language as
>lilypond

If Lilypond is written in C++ (and I do see some hints of C type syntax
when
I use Lilypond) this *might* be a factor to consider.  But... C and C++
are
fairly complex languages and have steep learning curves.  If you an abject
beginner with programming I suggest starting out with Visual Basic and
concentrating on trying to develop good programming practices.  That will
make a switch to a more difficult language easier.

Good luck!

_
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme002001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview



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Re: which language for programming

[Geoff Horton]

Lilypond also makes fairly extensive use of Scheme, which might be
easier to learn.

Geoff


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Re: which language for programming

[Bob Kline]

Ed Ardzinski wrote:

> If Lilypond is written in C++ (and I do see some hints of C type syntax
> when I use Lilypond) this *might* be a factor to consider.  But... C and
> C++ are fairly complex languages and have steep learning curves.  If you
> an abject beginner with programming I suggest starting out with Visual
> Basic and concentrating on trying to develop good programming
> practices.  That will make a switch to a more difficult language easier.

I thought I read somewhere that while Lilypond had originally been
written in C++ it has since been reimplemented in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp.  I would recommend Python as a good first language for
learning to program.

http://www.python.org

-- 
Bob Kline
http://www.rksystems.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: which language for programming

[Arvid Grøtting]

Jean-marc LEGRAND  total.com> writes:

> 
> 
> hi all !
> 
> I'm trying to choose a language to learn programming. i know, it depends en
what I want dto do with
> it : but I don't have particular project on my table.
> 
> So I was wondering if a good idea wouldn't be to use the same language as
lilypond, which is C++, i
> think.

Well.  See below for that, but C++ is *not* a beginner's language.

In my opinion, good beginners' languages include Python and Lisp/Scheme (Scheme
is a dialect of Lisp).

I don't know enough about Visual Basic to comment on that language specifically,
but where I come from Basic-related languages are not considered a good starting
point either, as they may tend to shape your thinking in ways that really won't
help much when you transition to another language.  That said, I started out
with Basic (long before Visual anything).

> My questions are :
> 
> - is C++ the language used for lilypond sources ?

Large parts of them, yes.

> - are the different tools, espacially in §12, but also in all chaging default
tricks, based upon C++
> ?

No; for the kind of tweaks mentioned in chapter 12 of the manual, you need
Scheme, not C++.

Luckily, Scheme is not a bad beginner's language.  It's very logical, very
consistent in how it behaves and has a very simple and consistent syntax, yet it
is immensely powerful.

> Well, if I learn to use C++, will I be able to help, in a few years, lily dev 
> ?


I've learned C++ years ago, and I don't touch the C++ sources of Lilypond with a
10-foot pole.  (That said, I don't *use* C++ for anything, and haven't for ages.
 Someone who uses C++ or even Java daily may have other views.)

Anyway, good luck, and if don't despair if you find out that programming is not
for you; you can always conttribute in other ways.  (I'm a programmer myself,
but with the limited time I have to contribute I'm probably more useful sending
in detailed bug reports than I would be programming...)

-- 

Arvid





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Re: Midi problem

[Erik Sandberg]

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 23:37, Lasse Rempe wrote:
> First of all --- thanks for the help on the hairpintobarline question; my
> reply on that message doesn't seem to have gone through. I thought I had
> installed the most current LilyPond version, but clearly not :doh:.
>
> I've now installed LilyPond 2.10, and I seem to be getting problems with
> the \tempo command where I wasn't getting these before. Is this a bug, am I
> doing something wrong or was the correct handling of this changed? If the
> latter, what is the new method? Sorry if this is a known issue.

The syntax has changed. You can try writing \tempo in a 2.8 and use convert-ly 
to see the new syntax, or alternatively you can read the Fine Manual.

hth,
-- 
Erik


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Re: which language for programming

[Nick Bailey]

On 22 Nov 2006, at 2:06 pm, Ed Ardzinski wrote:



If Lilypond is written in C++ (and I do see some hints of C type  
syntax when I use Lilypond) this *might* be a factor to consider.   
But... C and C++ are fairly complex languages and have steep  
learning curves.  If you an abject beginner with programming I  
suggest starting out with Visual Basic and concentrating on trying  
to develop good programming practices.  That will make a switch to  
a more difficult language easier.


Good luck!


Wise words, but I'd forget VB or Applescript. Why? Python, for  
example, runs on both these platforms and more, introduces the  
concepts of an object-oriented language, and its portability means  
you won't need to learn another language if you want to make a useful  
(cross-platform) piece of code.


Our computing department now use Python as an introductory language  
to teach their new students good programming practice, and because  
it's so widely used and so generally applicable, it'll still be  
useful to them when they graduate.


Of course other good languages also exist (ruby was mentioned) but in  
general one learns a language in order to communicate with others, so  
Visual Basic and Applescript need not apply (unless you don't want to  
talk to many other people!).


Nick/.



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Re: which language for programming

[Erik Sandberg]

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 15:53, Bob Kline wrote:
> Ed Ardzinski wrote:
> > If Lilypond is written in C++ (and I do see some hints of C type syntax
> > when I use Lilypond) this *might* be a factor to consider.  But... C and
> > C++ are fairly complex languages and have steep learning curves.  If you
> > an abject beginner with programming I suggest starting out with Visual
> > Basic and concentrating on trying to develop good programming
> > practices.  That will make a switch to a more difficult language easier.
>
> I thought I read somewhere that while Lilypond had originally been
> written in C++ it has since been reimplemented in Scheme, which is a
> dialect of Lisp.  I would recommend Python as a good first language for
> learning to program.
>
> http://www.python.org

In addition, Python is used for most lilypond-related tools (convert-ly, 
lilypond-book, etc), so if you want to start hacking lilypond it can be a 
good choice (plus it's in general very good as a first language, as other 
people already mentioned).


Scheme is the language used for music functions in LilyPond; you can write 
Scheme code in a .ly file to manipulate music. So Scheme is good if you want 
to find a real use for your programming skills quickly.

However, Scheme is considered by some people as difficult, as a side-effect of 
its extremely simple grammar. E.g., in order to express 3 + 8, you write
(+ 3 8) in Scheme, this confuses some people. If you are mathematically 
minded, this should not be a problem.

-- 
Erik


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Re: Manual engraving video

[Erik Sandberg]

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 09:20, Arvid Grøtting wrote:
> Joseph Haig  gmail.com> writes:
> > Note the second comment: "It will be a long time before this beautiful
> > process can be replicated by computers."  Erm ...
>
> It took Henle three years, from the video was made in 1997 until they
> stopped hand-engraving in 2000.  Three years should not be a long time from
> a music publisher's point of view...

The fact that they chose to switch to computer-engraving doesn't contradict 
that hand-engraving is far better; see:
http://lilypond.org/web/about/automated-engraving/introduction.html

-- 
Erik


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Re: which language for programming

[Bertalan Fodor]

If you'd like to learn something that you can use in LilyPond activity I 
would suggest Java and/or the Java-like script language of jEdit, that 
is BeanShell. In BeanShell you can actually write anything that you can 
in Java, but can be more lazy. There are excellent Java Tutorials on the 
net, like http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
If you can afford a 120MB download and have a computer with quite much 
memory, I suggest to download JDK 5.0 Update 9 with NetBeans 5.5 at 
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download-netbeans.html


Java is a very powerful and versatile system (it's not just a language), 
and one of the current standards of enterprise application programming.


Now, here is an example of a macro written in Java/BeanShell used in 
LilyPondTool - it will set the score size. This will work only in jEdit 
with installed LilyPondTool, because it uses LilyPondTool's and jEdit's 
features. But you can see, that it's not too complicated.


firstAsset = 
lilytool.macrohelp.MacroUtils.getFirstAsset(view).start.getOffset()); // 
LilyPondTool finds the position of the first element in our LilyPond 
source file
start=textArea.getLineStartOffset(textArea.getLineOfOffset(firstAsset); 
// we find the position of the first character of the first element

textArea.setCaretPosition(start); // set the current caret position at start
size=Macros.input(view, "Global staff size:", "20"); // get the required 
staff size from the user

if (size!=null) { // if something has inputted
   text="#(set-global-staff-size "+size+")"; // this will be the text 
we write
   textArea.setSelectedText(text+"\n\n"); // we write the text into the 
text area
   textArea.setCaretPosition(start+text.length()); // set the caret 
position after the newly inserted text
   textArea.setSelection(new Selection.Range(start, 
start+text.length()));  // select the text we inserted

}



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Re: Manual engraving video

[Arvid Grøtting]

Erik Sandberg  gmail.com> writes:

> The fact that they chose to switch to computer-engraving doesn't contradict 
> that hand-engraving is far better; [...]

True.  On the other hand, hand-engraved doesn't always mean better.  I've seen,
sung from and copied hand-engraved scores (or photocopies thereof) that were
quite unreadable.  A good hand-engraved score (as well as a recent
LilyPond-engraved score) is quite beautiful and can withstand photocopying very
well.

On another note, I'm looking for the paper quality, printing technique and
printer that will best do LilyPond justice.  Office laserprinter on 80g A4 white
office paper is all quite well, but I'm thinking along the lines of 120g or
heavier, off-white or even recycled paper, and of course I dream of etching a
LilyPond score into a plate and printing it in some kind of gravure printer ;-)

-- 

Arvid




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Re: lily doc in french ?

[John Mandereau]

Jean-marc LEGRAND wrote:
> Just one question : are the two lists linked together ? Or is there a french 
> lilyworld and a english
> spoken one ?

The only link between the lists is the number of users who are suscribed
to both. I sometimes summarize some threads from lilypond-user on
lilypond-user-fr, and when we can't solve an issue on lilypond-user-fr,
we propose the concerned person to send an email to the appropriate
english-speaking list. Since its creation one year ago, I've only seen
one topic that should be useful to forward on lilypond-user, about
microtones; however it can't be forwarded now because it involves a
complex theory. Except discussions on French translations, all other
topics are similar to those on lilypond-user (user support, well-known
issues, ...)


-- 
John Mandereau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: lily doc in french ?

[John Mandereau]

Le mercredi 22 novembre 2006 à 07:18 +0100, Guy Durrieu a écrit :
> I could help for this translation, although I have no clear idea now
> about  the technical aspects.

You need at least an utf-8 text editor, preferably with syntax
highlighting for Texinfo (the source format of the docs), like vim or
emacs. If you want to help maintaining the translation too, you need a
Unix shell box with the revision control system git, Make and Python.


> Maintaining the translation is, in my opinion, a major aspect.

Yes, but we already have experience with lilypond.org translation, so
the real problem is the need of enough people to maintain the
translation. Moreover, the game could not only be translation, but also
improving the docs and translate back to English these improvements.

Cheers,
-- 
John Mandereau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: Manual engraving video

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hello, all!

On another note, I'm looking for the paper quality, printing  
technique and

printer that will best do LilyPond justice.


I find the Rockland 70lb (140g), 11x17, cream-coloured paper lives up  
to Lilypond standards!


Best,
Kieren.


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Music for the Martians?

[arjan.bos]

Dear List,

When upgrading from 2.8.6 to 2.10.0 one of my files was producing this strange 
error message:

Preprocessing graphical objects...
/Users/arjanbos/Music/Gitaarles/Boek-2/MusicForTheMartians.ly:12:28: Music for 
the martians
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f
_6 |

What is music for the martians? The purpose of the file is to help beginning 
classical guitar players to understand a 6/8 beat. The numbers are there to 
indicate the counting. The solution I found is to simply put the f_6 as f_"6".
But what are martians and why are they playing my music? Shouldn't this message 
simply state that a 6 is a strange number to indicate a finger with? But I know 
that already, and obviously I want the 6 to be in, otherwise it wouldn't be in. 
So clearly it is not meant to indicate a finger, so I feel that the message can 
safely be removed from Lilypond. ;-)

The smallest file I found to reproduce it is
\version "2.10.0"
\score {
  \context Staff = guitar {
\key c \major \time 6/8
\relative c'' {
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f_6 |
}
  }
}


---
Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you think before you break 
'em.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time)
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Music for the Martians?

[arjan.bos]

Dear List,

When upgrading from 2.8.6 to 2.10.0 one of my files was producing this strange 
error message:

Preprocessing graphical objects...
/Users/arjanbos/Music/Gitaarles/Boek-2/MusicForTheMartians.ly:12:28: Music for 
the martians
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f
_6 |

What is music for the martians? The purpose of the file is to help beginning 
classical guitar players to understand a 6/8 beat. The numbers are there to 
indicate the counting. The solution I found is to simply put the f_6 as f_"6".
But what are martians and why are they playing my music? Shouldn't this message 
simply state that a 6 is a strange number to indicate a finger with? But I know 
that already, and obviously I want the 6 to be in, otherwise it wouldn't be in. 
So clearly it is not meant to indicate a finger, so I feel that the message can 
safely be removed from Lilypond. ;-)

The smallest file I found to reproduce it is
\version "2.10.0"
\score {
  \context Staff = guitar {
\key c \major \time 6/8
\relative c'' {
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f_6 |
}
  }
}


---
Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you think before you break 
'em.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time)
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Music for the Martians?

[arjan.bos]

Dear List,

When upgrading from 2.8.6 to 2.10.0 one of my files was producing this strange 
error message:

Preprocessing graphical objects...
/Users/arjanbos/Music/Gitaarles/Boek-2/MusicForTheMartians.ly:12:28: Music for 
the martians
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f
_6 |

What is music for the martians? The purpose of the file is to help beginning 
classical guitar players to understand a 6/8 beat. The numbers are there to 
indicate the counting. The solution I found is to simply put the f_6 as f_"6".
But what are martians and why are they playing my music? Shouldn't this message 
simply state that a 6 is a strange number to indicate a finger with? But I know 
that already, and obviously I want the 6 to be in, otherwise it wouldn't be in. 
So clearly it is not meant to indicate a finger, so I feel that the message can 
safely be removed from Lilypond. ;-)

The smallest file I found to reproduce it is
\version "2.10.0"
\score {
  \context Staff = guitar {
\key c \major \time 6/8
\relative c'' {
  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f_6 |
}
  }
}


---
Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you think before you break 
'em.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time)
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Re: which language for programming

[Doug Wellington]

On 11/22/06, Nick Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Of course other good languages also exist (ruby was mentioned) but in
general one learns a language in order to communicate with others, so
Visual Basic and Applescript need not apply (unless you don't want to
talk to many other people!).


I'm not sure I follow you there.  (Maybe if you write it in python
I'll understand...)  ;-)

Why can't you communicate with others using VB and/or AppleScript?  I
would submit that it's easier to create a graphical application with
VB than just about any other programming language.  If you want to
communicate via windows, menus, buttons, etc, what's easier than VB?
(And heck, once you learn VB, you can leverage that to write scripts
in MS Office apps if you're so inclined...)

On the other hand, if you're trying to communicate with others via the
web, PHP might be the better way to program.

There's a reason so many different languages continue to exist...

Doug


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changing the appearance of noteheads

[Martijn Vromans]

Hello!

I was wondering how I can change the appearance of a notehead, so that a
sixteenth note looks like a half note. I cannot find this in the archive or
user manual.

Best wishes,

Martijn Vromans
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Re: lily doc in french ?

[David R. Linn]

>> From: John Mandereau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: Jean-marc LEGRAND <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:48:03 +0100
>> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

>> Jean-marc LEGRAND wrote:
>> > Just one question : are the two lists linked together ? Or is there a 
french lilyworld and a english
>> > spoken one ?
>> 
>> The only link between the lists is the number of users who are suscribed
>> to both. I sometimes summarize some threads from lilypond-user on
>> lilypond-user-fr, and when we can't solve an issue on lilypond-user-fr,
>> we propose the concerned person to send an email to the appropriate
>> english-speaking list.

There is one other point of possible interest:  when unsubscribe
people send messages to the lists that I manage, those messages
are held for my review.  When such a message is written in French
including a statement that the writer cannot read English (this
happens about once each month), I suggest (in French) that they may
want to subscribe to the French users list and ask their questions
there.


While I read French, I'm no longer very good at generating it so
this seems like a more useful way for them to get help than for
me to try to help directly.


David
-- 
David R. Linn - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (a) mailing list maintainer for
the Lilypond project





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Re: which language for programming

[Joseph Wakeling]

Doug Wellington wrote:
> Why can't you communicate with others using VB and/or AppleScript?  I
> would submit that it's easier to create a graphical application with
> VB than just about any other programming language.  If you want to
> communicate via windows, menus, buttons, etc, what's easier than VB?
> (And heck, once you learn VB, you can leverage that to write scripts
> in MS Office apps if you're so inclined...)

Simple---because with VB and/or AppleScript you are tying yourself to
one platform, or at any rate biasing yourself heavily.  If I write in
Perl or Python or Ruby, or for that matter C or C++, code is much more
portable.

Additionally, there's the question of what you want to do.  If you want
to learn *programming*, I think VB is considered a bad environment.

> There's a reason so many different languages continue to exist...

Sure.  All the more reason to make sure that when you learn, you learn
to *program*, not to be trapped by one language, one platform or one
implementation.

Your beginning language should therefore be something that opens your
horizons instead of restricting them.

I think the earlier poster who suggested going straight for Scheme may
have a point.  Not only is it the core language for working with
Lilypond, but it's a Lisp dialect, and Lisp is both the grandaddy of
programming and the most flexible language there is.  See for example,
http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html



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Re: which language for programming

[Doug Wellington]

Simple---because with VB and/or AppleScript you are tying yourself to
one platform, or at any rate biasing yourself heavily.


Ah...  I look at that as a different problem than "communicating with
others".  I didn't think we were talking about portability.  I think
that when you start talking about cross-platform portability, the core
language isn't as important as the graphics library is...


Additionally, there's the question of what you want to do.  If you want
to learn *programming*, I think VB is considered a bad environment.


Heck, LOTS of things have been considered bad.  Isn't there a famous
article somewhere titled something to the effect of "C Shell
Programming Considered Harmful"?  Ah yes, here it is:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/shell/csh-whynot/

Heehee...  And I know plenty of people who still write csh scripts...
(And isn't VB still the most used programming language in the world?)


All the more reason to make sure that when you learn, you learn
to *program*, not to be trapped by one language, one platform or one
implementation.


Agreed.  Different languages for different problem sets...


Your beginning language should therefore be something that opens your
horizons instead of restricting them.


Well, here's where I disagree, if only in the sense that some
languages have such open horizons that a beginning programmer could be
overwhelmed...  That's where "bad environments" like VB and
AppleScript can help.  :)


I think the earlier poster who suggested going straight for Scheme may
have a point.  Not only is it the core language for working with
Lilypond, but it's a Lisp dialect, and Lisp is both the grandaddy of
programming and the most flexible language there is.


Were you around when Stallman was trying to push Scheme as the one
true GNU scripting language?  (As for "flexible", how about we define
the problem set first?)

:)

Doug


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Re: which language for programming

[Mike Blackstock]

Joseph Wakeling wrote:



I think the earlier poster who suggested going straight for Scheme may
have a point.  Not only is it the core language for working with
Lilypond, but it's a Lisp dialect, and Lisp is both the grandaddy of
programming and the most flexible language there is.  See for example,
http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html



 

You know, I was going to suggest that if one were to take up 
programming, one
might benefit from looking into some of the principles of generative 
grammar that
came out of MIT in the late 1950's  (Chomsky et al). I'm thinking of 
recursion;
recursion is now considered by some (Chomsky, Fitch and Hauser, in a  
2002 paper
in Science) to be the only truly unique feature of the human  language 
faculty. At any rate,
I see from the excellent link  above [thanks for that!] that Lisp was 
developed around

the same time. Concidence? I wonder.

I digress. What I meant to suggest was that since recursion is central 
to programming, it
might be worth the effort to have a look at how it is used in human 
languages in general,
since every would-be programmer is already a master of recursion in his 
own native
tongue; a grasp of the recursion in human language might make it a 
little easier to transter

the knpwledge over to programming lanuages.

I'm writing in haste - does any of the above make sense?

Cheers,
Mike



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Re: Manual engraving video

[Johan Vromans]

Arvid Grøtting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> and of course I dream of etching a LilyPond score into a plate and
> printing it in some kind of gravure printer ;-)

Lilypond produces PostScript (or PDF) which means it has infinite
sharpness. It is the reproduction device that controls how the result
looks. If you use a professional quality printer the result will be
splendid. Maybe you can contact a real printer (not the copy shop at
the end of the street) and ask whether they can produce high qaulity
prints on manually factured sheets of paper.

Of course, if you want to feel the print you need to etch a plate and
use a real press. But I'm sure that there are PostScript driven
etching devices for this purpose.

Or maybe I'm dreaming as well ;-).

-- Johan


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Re: Manual engraving video

[Arvid Grøtting]

Johan Vromans  squirrel.nl> writes:
 
> Lilypond produces PostScript (or PDF) which means it has infinite
> sharpness. It is the reproduction device that controls how the result
> looks. If you use a professional quality printer the result will be
> splendid. Maybe you can contact a real printer (not the copy shop at
> the end of the street) and ask whether they can produce high qaulity
> prints on manually factured sheets of paper.

Actually, the copy (and print) shop at the middle of the next street[1] produces
quite magnifically sharp prints.  That's not the problem.

The problem is twofold: This print shop doesn't stock any cream-colored A3 paper
which would be nice, and the finished sheet music is almost *too* sharp.

So what I'm looking for is a bit more smudge, a bit of roughness, some printing
artefacts.

> Of course, if you want to feel the print you need to etch a plate and
> use a real press.

I don't think you get to "feel the print" in any literal sense with
traditionally engraved scores -- the ink is in the depressions, remember...

> But I'm sure that there are PostScript driven
> etching devices for this purpose.

Oh, I would guess so, although I'm sure I'd get as good results with a good
print to transparent film and then photoetching.  Perhaps even better.

> Or maybe I'm dreaming as well .

I sure hope dreaming is allowed on this list.  :-)

[1] there's no copy shop at the end of my street, but there are several printers
of varying professionality, including a big newspaper printer, within five
minutes' walk.
-- 

Arvid






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Re: Manual engraving video

[fiëé visuëlle]

Am 2006-11-22 um 21:26 schrieb Arvid Grøtting:

The problem is twofold: This print shop doesn't stock any cream- 
colored A3 paper
which would be nice, and the finished sheet music is almost *too*  
sharp.


So what I'm looking for is a bit more smudge, a bit of roughness,  
some printing

artefacts.


I guess you get the right paper at an artists supplier.
If you need really much, ask at a printshop for samples and if they  
would order for you.



I don't think you get to "feel the print" in any literal sense with
traditionally engraved scores -- the ink is in the depressions,  
remember...


Depends on the ink. There are "thick" gravure inks. (for artists, not  
industrial print)



But I'm sure that there are PostScript driven
etching devices for this purpose.


There are - for industrial gravure printing. But if you don't sell  
your scores in millions, that doesn't make sense. ;-)


There are different methods of "computer to gravure cylinder"...


Greetlings from Lake Constance
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)




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Exporting timing information out of lilypond

[Thomas Tensi]

Hello,


I'm trying to make MPEG-4 notation files from lilypond
output.  Each key frame is a score sheet (a PNG picture)
shown for a specific time, but it has to be synchronous with
the music played (also generated from lilypond).

To achieve that I need a list of play times per sheet and
the total number of sheets produced automatically.

One idea is to have lilypond put out some MIDI meta event
into its generated midi file whenever the page is broken.
When looking at the MIDI generation code, it seems that no
meta events are written at all, are they?

Another idea is to link into the page breaking via some
callback and to write a sequential file with the measures at
page breaks.  Together with the MIDI tempo track this should
help in finding the absolute time positions.

Is this possible or completely nonsensical?


 Best regards,

  Thomas



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Re: adding fingering diagrams

[Chris Capoccia]

> is there a way to make the circles closer in the macro definition?
> 

i overrode the baseline-skip property, and now the circles are closer together.

fingerD = \markup{\override #'(baseline-skip . 2) \column{◍ ● ● }}



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Re: which language for programming

[Eduardo Vieira]

Jean wrote:

"I'm trying to choose a language to learn programming. i know, it depends en
what I want dto do with
it : but I don't have particular project on my table."

I had been wondering with the same questions lately and, having Lilypond in
mind, and lot of survey on forums. I decided I'd go for Python and then, later,
Scheme. Well, I haven't gone very far in Python, due mostly to my limited time,
but I'm finding it understanble and not so hard. And hope I can go deeper in my
learning sometime. If you learn Python, there's more chance to contribute to
Lilypond than if you learn, say, Pascal, or whatever.
To have a project in mind is a good starting point, however, I found that once
you learn some programming skills new ideas pop up about how to use them.
What I have in mind is more text manipulation: maybe improve Musicxml2ly,
abc2ly, etc., Automation scripts, and so on.

let us see what are our conclusions, say within 6 more months.

Best regards,

Eduardo Vieira
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Re: Music for the Martians?

[Graham Percival]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
/Users/arjanbos/Music/Gitaarles/Boek-2/MusicForTheMartians.ly:12:28: 
Music for the martians

  e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f
_6 |

What is music for the martians?


I think this is referring to people with 6-fingers.  Typing e8_1 means 
"first finger"; typing e8_"1" prints "1" as a TextScript.


But what are martians and why are they playing my music? Shouldn't this 
message simply state that a 6 is a strange number to indicate a finger 
with?


Yes, but somebody was feeling creative when they wrote that code.  :) 
What message do you propose to change it with?


Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Hiding empty staves

[Graham Percival]

Bob Kline wrote:

Could one of you have pity on a poor clueless user and give an example
showing where these two directives go?


There is only one command, which can be entered in two different ways.


I have looked at chapter 5 of the docs (I assume we're talking about the
chapter 5 in the latest released version of lp, rather than the versions
currently shipped with most Linux distros), and my poor brain just isn't
getting it, as I don't see the part that says *where* to put the
\override command.


Have you read chapter 9 as well?  If not, could you read that and let me 
know if it helps?  Once you do understand it, could you also propose an 
addition to the docs to clear this up?


Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: (double)Slurs on whole Notes

[Graham Percival]

Thanks, this bug has been entered as
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=156

Note that it has nothing to do with double slurs, are your final line 
demonstrates.  I've simplified the example for the bug tracker.


Cheers,
- Graham


Thomas Frank wrote:
The follwing snippet shows a very strange behaviour of slurs on whole notes 
which are not placed on the 'default'-side of the note. While the quarter 
notes in the first line are just perfect, the same fails with the whole notes 
in the second and third line.


Is there a way to work around this?

Is it a known bug?

cheers
Thomas

%% BEGIN CODE SNIPPET

\version "2.10.0"

\relative c'' {
\set doubleSlurs = ##t
4( )( )( ) |
\break
1( | )( | )( | ) |
\set doubleSlurs = ##f
\break
1_( | )_( | )_( | ) |
}

%% END CODE SNIPPET







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Re: binary eps files in 2.10 break lilypond-book workaround

[Graham Percival]

Entered as
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=157

Cheers,
- Graham

Laura Conrad wrote:

Sometime very late in the 2.9 release cycle, the eps files generated
by lilypond-book (on ubuntu edgy linux; presumably really by "lilypond
-b eps") became binary instead of text.

This means that I can't fix the bounding box problem
 by
using Arvid's sed workaround any more.

Can we either get the bounding boxes to be right in the first place
or change the EPS files back to text files?

Or does someone feel like writing a program that fixes them in the
binary file?  


I don't understand why this is either a feature or a bug that's
difficult to fix.  I really want to be able to print books two-sided,
and there's no way I'm going to be able to do that with lilypond-book
in its current state.  I understand that this bug isn't important to
people who only use lilypond-book for including music snippets in a
text, but if you're writing a real music book, it's a critical bug.





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Re: broken crescendo

[Graham Percival]

Orm Finnendahl wrote:

thanks for the help! I found the following solution:

\override DynamicLineSpanner #'layer = #0
deh2~\< 
\override TextScript #'layer = #1

deh16_\markup { \postscript #"2.5 -4 translate 6.2 4 scale 1 setgray 0 0 moveto 
0 1 lineto 1 1 lineto 1 0 lineto 0 0 lineto fill" }
r8. deh8. deh16\sff bes4~

If someone doesn't know postscript: In order to find the right place
where to white out the hairpin I used a smaller number just before the
"setgray" in the postscript (0 means black, 1 means white). The two
numbers before "scale" change the x and y size of the whiteout
rectangle and the two numbers before the "translate" shift it into
position. If the whiteout has to be in the staff, I guess the
'extra-offset property has to be used.


Could you add this snippet to LSR?  A longer snippet would be nice if 
there's no copyright problems, but this current amount is well-worth 
including in LSR.


Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: hairpinToBarline (bug or feature?)

[Graham Percival]

Thomas Frank wrote:
To me it seems like hairpinToBarline works correctly in 2.10 as long as the 
(de-)crescendo ends in '\!' and not in an absolute dynamic like '\f'.


Is this the way it is supposed to work? Is there any switch to make it work 
with absolute dynamics, too? '\!\f' doesn't work.


Thanks for the report; this has been entered as
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=158

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Music for the Martians?

[Daniel Tonda]

For pedagogical purposes, ¿wouldn't it be better if the timing was shown in
a different font than the font used for fingerings?

Such as:

%%
\version "2.10.0"
\score {
 \context Staff = guitar {
   \key c \major \time 6/8
   \relative c'' {
 <<
   {
 e8 e e f f f
   } \\
   {
 s8_\markup{\italic{1}}
 s8_\markup{\italic{2}}
 s8_\markup{\italic{3}}
 s8_\markup{\italic{4}}
 s8_\markup{\italic{5}}
 s8_\markup{\italic{6}}
   }
 >>
   }
 }
}
%%


2006/11/22, Graham Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> /Users/arjanbos/Music/Gitaarles/Boek-2/MusicForTheMartians.ly:12:28:
> Music for the martians
>   e8_1 e_2 e_3 f_4 f_5 f
> _6 |
>
> What is music for the martians?

I think this is referring to people with 6-fingers.  Typing e8_1 means
"first finger"; typing e8_"1" prints "1" as a TextScript.

> But what are martians and why are they playing my music? Shouldn't this
> message simply state that a 6 is a strange number to indicate a finger
> with?

Yes, but somebody was feeling creative when they wrote that code.  :)
What message do you propose to change it with?

Cheers,
- Graham


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--
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Re: Manual engraving video

[Martial]

The fact that they chose to switch to computer-engraving doesn't contradict 
that hand-engraving is far better; see:

http://lilypond.org/web/about/automated-engraving/introduction.html


And the Lilypond product is great !

http://cathemline.org/lily/fragment_typo.html




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