Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op woensdag 12-08-2009 om 17:59 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Graham
Percival:

> It's not that; Jan thought you were objecting to having:
>   LilyPond is Free Software and part of the GNU project.
> on the home page.
> 
> Frankly, I'm still not conviced that's a good thing to add, so

We need "free" (ie: gratis) "music" and "software" to work
as search terms.  We are at position #223 when you search for 
"music software", where our most direct opponents are on
google's front page.

Why is this so hard to see?

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen  | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
Avatar®: http://AvatarAcademy.nl| http://lilypond.org



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Herbert Niemeyer]

Gradients

These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
Which is easier to see?
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Andrew Hawryluk]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Graham
Percival wrote:
> I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
> and put it to a vote.
>
> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
> Which is easier to see?
>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>    (ok, the background to the lily icon doesn't match the other
>     shades; this can be fixed easily)

See? Gradient.
Read? Solid, at least for the current set of colors.

It may just be that the reverse gradient of the selected item is too
strong - it disrupts the apparent curvature that the rest of the menu
seems to have.

Perhaps reducing the contrast within each gradient and increasing the
contrast between the two gradients will do the trick:
http://www.apple.com/mac/

On another note, I like the green --> brown transition, but the way it
is applied to the sub-menu groups the options in distinct bundles of
color, which may not be the optimum presentation. Alas, I have no
suggestions short of a dozen different colors in the CSS file (not
that it would be hard, just boring to type).

Andrew


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Tim McNamara]

On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Graham Percival wrote:


I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
and put it to a vote.

These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
Which is easier to see?
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png


Wow, the second one really stands out.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 06:39:20PM -0300, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Jan
> Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> >> - GNU and (new) website can be trimmed from the title.
> >
> > We do not want to trim GNU.  Remember the long thread on devel,
> > where even contributors did not realise we are GNU, or ever heard of it?
> 
> Whom is this site for?  Are we trying to attract new users (that
> likely will be confounded by the GNU moniker) , or contributors?

The Introduction section is definitely for attracting new users.
The home page... well, I guess that's also mostly aimed at new
users.  As such, I don't mind trimming the GNU from the title.


> I am saying that in the propaganda story, the storyline should not go
> from examples to politics , I think.  Also,  the question

IMO, "you don't need to pay" is a very important part of the
storyline.  Now, I'm not opposed to changing the name from
"Freedom" to "Free".

>   Why do LilyPond developers “give away” their work for free?
> 
> is interesting for a faq, but I doubt the answer will convince users
> to download.  I am assuming that the Introduction part is an attempt
> to convince visitors to download and try lilypond as soon as possible.

Maybe Canadians and Singaporeans are most cynical than
Europeans... actually, I'd be willing to bet money on that,
irregardless of this debate... but as soon as you say that
something is free, people assume that it's garbage.  That _might_
change with high-profile projects like Firefox... but in that
case, most people assume that it's either funded by Netscape or
Google.  (Which is pretty much the truth, anyway.)

IMO, it would be dangerous to say "here's a free music engraver,
without any advertizing, corporate sponsorship[1], or even wacky
EU grants".  Some people *will* assume that it must be junk.

[1] other than the download sponsorship.


The "why do you do this?" is drawn directly from my experience
mentioning lilypond to non-geeks.  It's the first question from
musicians, music teachers, non-musicians, and my parents.
Answering it immediately avoids this confusion.

(I tried to mention that we have a few professors working on
lilypond -- again, trying to reinforce that we are (mostly)
serious, skilled, and professional -- but every attempt ended up
being too wordy.)


Again, this material -- both Freedom in general, and "why do
develoeprs..." -- is clearly marked.  If a reader isn't
interested, it's easy to skip over it and proceed.

> Also, as smart as search engines may be,  I am not sure that there is
> stemming that would correlate [free] (the query word) with [freedom]
> (whats on the page, in the submenu).

It's not that; Jan thought you were objecting to having:
  LilyPond is Free Software and part of the GNU project.
on the home page.

Frankly, I'm still not conviced that's a good thing to add, so
it's understandable that he thought you were complaining about
that.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website non-git help

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:51:07AM -0400, Chris Snyder wrote:
> Andrew Hawryluk wrote:
> > Could we add a link in the first paragraph to the (upcoming) essay?
> > Perhaps on the words "beautifully engraved music". The essay was a
> > prominent feature of the previous web design, and says a lot about the
> > attention to detail that goes into LilyPond.

We try to avoid links with different text, since that doesn't look
so nice in pdf and info.  But I've found a few good places to add
such links.

> Perhaps one place for a link to the essay could be right under the
> "Excellent classical engraving" subheading near the top of the Features
> page: "Read more: The LilyPond philosophy"

Ok, done.

> Glancing at the Features page, I also just noticed a typo under
> "Excellent support:" s/documetation/documentation/

Thanks, fixed.

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Graham,


These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
Which is easier to see?
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png


Solid.


Please DO NOT complain that brown gradients doesn't fit the color
scheme; changing the colors (either of the gradients or the rest
of the page) is easy.


Regardless, you've likely skewed the poll results [which way, I don't  
know] by adding a colour-change as part of the difference!  ;)
For example, I don't know that a green gradient would be harder to  
see than a green solid... because I haven't been given the chance to  
compare them.


Cheers,
Kieren.


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Graham Percival]

I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
and put it to a vote.

These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
Which is easier to see?
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
(ok, the background to the lily icon doesn't match the other
 shades; this can be fixed easily)

Please DO NOT complain that brown gradients doesn't fit the color
scheme; changing the colors (either of the gradients or the rest
of the page) is easy.


For the record, I vote in favor of SOME kind of gradients.  (not
necessarily brown)
Voting will end in 48 hours.

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Michel Villeneuve]

I understood. By searching "lilypond fingering" in Google I found the
2.9 doc page about fingering. The 2.12 doc page on this subject  is
enough detailed for me (beginner point of view who managed this
evening to put fingering indications in the right place).

Thank you very much for you help.

-- 
Michel Villeneuve
43, faubourg Jean Jaurès
07700 Bourg St-Andéol
tel : (+33)(0)961468658   / (+33)(0)601981018
GnuPG Key ID  0019690E


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Trevor Daniels]

Nick Payne wrote Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:59 PM


Yes, the <> construct around the note is needed. If you just have 
e-4 e^4
e_4, all three fingerings will appear above the notes. You need 
 

.

^ and _ also work with articulations and slurs and ties. It's 
briefly
mentioned in s.2.2.3 of the LM as working for articulations and 
fingerings.


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Kulp 


wrote:

Is the use of _ and ^ with fingerings documented anywhere?  I 
don't remember
seeing this. It's certainly easier than using the chord angle 
brackets.


Am I correct in thinking that you'll still have to use <> if you 
want the

fingerings to go left or right of the note? In that case, \set
fingeringOrientations is still necessary for single notes 
sometimes.


The fullest explanation of fingering is in
section 4.4.2 of the Learning Manual, which
deals with the placement of Within-staff objects.
Look for the second subsection there - it's
called Fingering.

Although this subsection is indexed it doesn't
appear in the Table of Contents.  I've fixed that
to make it more visible.

Trevor



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 06:59:01AM +1000, Nick Payne wrote:
> Yes, the <> construct around the note is needed. If you just have e-4 e^4 e_4,
> all three fingerings will appear above the notes.

Really?  That's odd, apparently 2.13.2 is broken.
{
  c'4^3 c_2
}
gives me a 2 below the staff.

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Joseph Wakeling]

Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Jan
> Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
>>> - GNU and (new) website can be trimmed from the title.
>> We do not want to trim GNU.  Remember the long thread on devel,
>> where even contributors did not realise we are GNU, or ever heard of it?
> 
> Whom is this site for?  Are we trying to attract new users (that
> likely will be confounded by the GNU moniker) , or contributors?

It seems to me Lilypond can do GNU more favours by having a brief
discussion of what GNU is (and why Lilypond is a part of it) on the
Freedom page.  That would surely mean more than either having 'GNU' in
the title or the links to www.gnu.org that are currently on the site.



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 01:09:59PM -0500, Jonathan Kulp wrote:
> 
> Is the use of _ and ^ with fingerings documented anywhere?  I don't remember
> seeing this. It's certainly easier than using the chord angle brackets.

"
Fingering instructions may be manually placed above or below the
staff, see Direction and placement.
"

If you complain that Directions and placements could be improved,
then thanks for volunteering.  I'm willing to wait until you've
recovered.

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Jan
Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
>> - GNU and (new) website can be trimmed from the title.
>
> We do not want to trim GNU.  Remember the long thread on devel,
> where even contributors did not realise we are GNU, or ever heard of it?

Whom is this site for?  Are we trying to attract new users (that
likely will be confounded by the GNU moniker) , or contributors?

>> - I think the freedom propaganda should be moved elsewhere.
>
> I think you misinterpreted.  I did some basic search engine tests.
> Try searching for "music software" or "free music software".
>
> If you need to print sheet music, and you have a hope there is
> something you can just download for free, that's what you'd look for,
> right?
>
> LilyPond is on rank #223, Sibelius and Finale are at #6 and #8.
>
> I tried to start a private discussion on search terms and what we
> need on the front page, but "music", "software" and "free" are
> smart things to have, I think?  In the past, we just happened to
> miss "software".

I am saying that in the propaganda story, the storyline should not go
from examples to politics , I think.  Also,  the question

  Why do LilyPond developers “give away” their work for free?

is interesting for a faq, but I doubt the answer will convince users
to download.  I am assuming that the Introduction part is an attempt
to convince visitors to download and try lilypond as soon as possible.


Also, as smart as search engines may be,  I am not sure that there is
stemming that would correlate [free] (the query word) with [freedom]
(whats on the page, in the submenu).

-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

RE: fingering orientation problem

[Nick Payne]

Yes, the <> construct around the note is needed. If you just have e-4 e^4
e_4, all three fingerings will appear above the notes. You need  
. 

 

^ and _ also work with articulations and slurs and ties. It's briefly
mentioned in s.2.2.3 of the LM as working for articulations and fingerings.

 

Nick

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Kulp 
wrote:

 

Is the use of _ and ^ with fingerings documented anywhere?  I don't remember
seeing this. It's certainly easier than using the chord angle brackets.

 

Am I correct in thinking that you'll still have to use <> if you want the
fingerings to go left or right of the note? In that case, \set
fingeringOrientations is still necessary for single notes sometimes.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op woensdag 12-08-2009 om 15:29 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Jan
Nieuwenhuizen:

> I just pushed a couple of build and translation-infrastructure
> fixes for the new site
> 
>http://lilypond.org/~janneke/lilypond.org

Now the essay.tely also works, I added a link to test it...but
...what happened to the essay?  

Shall I junk this and do run html2texi on the old essay?

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen  | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
Avatar®: http://AvatarAcademy.nl| http://lilypond.org



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Mark Polesky]

James E. Bailey wrote:
> Surely the calculations can be performed outside of lilypond,
> and then simply input into lilypond for a score, right? Or am I
> missing something?

Sure, but scheme can greatly facilitate things. I should clarify
that algorithmic music hardly represents the bulk of my LilyPond
work, but I mentioned it as an example of something the benefits
from scheme.

I'll try to respond differently to what you wrote earlier:

> Scheme is, as far as I'm concerned, what other people do to save
> typing. In fact, I'm of the opinion that there's no need to use
> Scheme, it's just there if you know how to use it. So, if you
> take Scheme out of the lilypond learning curve, it's actually
> not that difficult.

I think what David was saying in his earlier post
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-08/msg00323.html)
was that he's gotten to the level where he needs scheme to do what
he wants. As one example, if you need your slurs and ties to hide
behind time-signatures, scheme is absolutely required, as far as I
see it:http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=613

Scheme enables far more functionality than simply saving typing.
So if you find yourself needing scheme in LilyPond, you may very
well find yourself fighting its counterintuitive elements.

Certainly scheme isn't "required" to produce beautiful scores, but
I typeset a lot of contemporary music, and the demands of the new
notation are simply too great to avoid it. So, as I said, perhaps
it just depends on your typesetting needs.

- Mark


  


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Patrick Horgan]

Definitely like alternative style 1 ( the green ) better.

Patrick



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[James E. Bailey]

On 12.08.2009, at 19:33, Mark Polesky wrote:


James E. Bailey wrote:
Personally, I think this is an area where knowing too much gets in  
the

way. I, for example, have no clue about Scheme. Scheme is, as far as
I'm concerned, what other people do to save typing. In fact, I'm of
the opinion that there's no need to use Scheme, it's just there if  
you

know how to use it. So, if you take Scheme out of the lilypond
learning curve, it's actually not that difficult.


Maybe it depends on your typesetting needs. Most of
my projects require scheme in one way or another.

- Mark


Really? What can't you do without Scheme?

James E. Bailey



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[James E. Bailey]

On 12.08.2009, at 20:41, Mark Polesky wrote:


James E. Bailey wrote:

Really? What can't you do without Scheme?


Algorithmic music.

- Mark

Surely the calculations can be performed outside of lilypond, and  
then simply input into lilypond for a score, right? Or am I missing  
something?


James E. Bailey



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Mark Polesky]

James E. Bailey wrote:
> Really? What can't you do without Scheme?

Algorithmic music.

- Mark



  


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Jonathan Kulp]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Kulp wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Mark Knoop  wrote:
>
>> At 18:50 on 12 Aug 2009, michel.villene...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > I don't understand why the fingering indications are up and not
>> > "down" because I specified it by : \set fingeringOrientations =
>> > #'(down) Sorry if it's a stupid question but I can't see where is my
>> > mistake.
>>
>> \set fingeringOrientations is only for chords, just use "_" and "^" to
>> position single note fingerings, or use "-" to let LP decide.
>>
>>
> Is the use of _ and ^ with fingerings documented anywhere?  I don't
> remember seeing this. It's certainly easier than using the chord angle
> brackets.


Am I correct in thinking that you'll still have to use <> if you want the
fingerings to go left or right of the note? In that case, \set
fingeringOrientations is still necessary for single notes sometimes.

Jon
-- 
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Jonathan Kulp]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Mark Knoop  wrote:

> At 18:50 on 12 Aug 2009, michel.villene...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I don't understand why the fingering indications are up and not
> > "down" because I specified it by : \set fingeringOrientations =
> > #'(down) Sorry if it's a stupid question but I can't see where is my
> > mistake.
>
> \set fingeringOrientations is only for chords, just use "_" and "^" to
> position single note fingerings, or use "-" to let LP decide.
>
>
Is the use of _ and ^ with fingerings documented anywhere?  I don't remember
seeing this. It's certainly easier than using the chord angle brackets.

Jon
-- 
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Jonathan Kulp]

For fingering orientation to take effect, you have to put the note inside a
chord construct <>. I thought we had added a warning about this. Here's what
it should look like:

\set fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
   4

Ok I've just added this warning about the chord construct requirement to the
snippet in question in LSR.

Jon

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:

> I don't understand why the fingering indications are up and not "down"
> because I specified it by : \set fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
> Sorry if it's a stupid question but I can't see where is my mistake.
>
> NB : \version "2.12.0" on Debian.
>
> --
> Michel Villeneuve
> 43, faubourg Jean Jaurès
> 07700 Bourg St-Andéol
> tel : (+33)(0)961468658   / (+33)(0)601981018
> GnuPG Key ID  0019690E
>
>
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>


-- 
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: fingering orientation problem

[Mark Knoop]

At 18:50 on 12 Aug 2009, michel.villene...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't understand why the fingering indications are up and not
> "down" because I specified it by : \set fingeringOrientations =
> #'(down) Sorry if it's a stupid question but I can't see where is my
> mistake.

\set fingeringOrientations is only for chords, just use "_" and "^" to
position single note fingerings, or use "-" to let LP decide.

{
c4^3
d4_2
e4-1
\set fingeringOrientations = #'(down) 
4
}

-- 
Mark Knoop


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Mark Polesky]

James E. Bailey wrote:
> Personally, I think this is an area where knowing too much gets in the
> way. I, for example, have no clue about Scheme. Scheme is, as far as
> I'm concerned, what other people do to save typing. In fact, I'm of
> the opinion that there's no need to use Scheme, it's just there if you
> know how to use it. So, if you take Scheme out of the lilypond
> learning curve, it's actually not that difficult.

Maybe it depends on your typesetting needs. Most of
my projects require scheme in one way or another.

- Mark



  


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: staves with example notes, ancient and modern

[James E. Bailey]

On 12.08.2009, at 16:55, denis.roe...@loria.fr wrote:

Yes, thank you! This is almost what I want. Can I also put the
instrument information on several lines, for instance

  mensural
  notation

?

Thanks again,

Denis




Yes you can. Instrument names support markup text, which can be set  
in columns.


James E. Bailey



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[James E. Bailey]

On 12.08.2009, at 12:26, Simon Mackenzie wrote:

Yeah it's proving to be an interesting learning experience trying  
to wrap my head around Lilypond. I feel it is like a multi-headed  
beast with Scheme & Lilypond script intermingled together. It makes  
for an interesting mix to get ones head around. The manuals are  
helpful but there are hugh gaps for any new and inexperienced user  
such as myself.



Personally, I think this is an area where knowing too much gets in  
the way. I, for example, have no clue about Scheme. Scheme is, as far  
as I'm concerned, what other people do to save typing. In fact, I'm  
of the opinion that there's no need to use Scheme, it's just there if  
you know how to use it. So, if you take Scheme out of the lilypond  
learning curve, it's actually not that difficult.


James E. Bailey



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

fingering orientation problem

[michel . villeneuve]

fingering down.ly
Description: Binary data
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Joseph Wakeling]

Graham Percival wrote:
> Make sure you check out the alternate CSS style #2.  This has
> fancy gradient-shaded menu bars, which could be a great hit.  It's
> /much/ easier to see which item you have selected.  If you like
> it, make sure you let us know, so that it can be added to the
> default layout.

The gradients look nice, but not the brown.  It's not so much that brown
is wrong per se as that it doesn't fit with the colours of the rest of
the page -- the green (style 1) main menu bar is much more harmonious.
(I also think that green fits nicely with the living nature oriented
theme that springs to mind when one thinks of lilies on a pond: green is
right for plants and water, whereas brown is for the earth:-)

I don't know if green-with-gradient would work, though, because that
might clash with the slower gradient of the fading green background on
the top left (the one with the little musical extract in white).



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Fwd: staves with example notes, ancient and modern

[Denis . Roegel]

Quoting Marek Klein :


Hi,
something like this?

\version "2.13.2"

pattern = { \cadenzaOn e'4 e'2. e'1 e'\breve e'\longa \bar "|" }
pmensural = {
\set fontSize = #6
\override NoteHead  #'style = #'mensural
\pattern
}
\score {
<<
\new Staff {
  \override Staff.InstrumentName #'self-alignment-X = #LEFT
  \set Staff.instrumentName = "mensural "
  \pmensural
}


Yes, thank you! This is almost what I want. Can I also put the
instrument information on several lines, for instance

  mensural
  notation

?

Thanks again,

Denis



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Fwd: staves with example notes, ancient and modern

[Marek Klein]

Hi,
something like this?

\version "2.13.2"

pattern = { \cadenzaOn e'4 e'2. e'1 e'\breve e'\longa \bar "|" }
pmensural = {
\set fontSize = #6
\override NoteHead  #'style = #'mensural
\pattern
}
\score {
<<
\new Staff {
  \override Staff.InstrumentName #'self-alignment-X = #LEFT
  \set Staff.instrumentName = "mensural "
  \pmensural
}
\new Staff {
  \override Staff.InstrumentName #'self-alignment-X = #LEFT
  \set Staff.instrumentName = "normal "
  \pattern
}
>>

\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
\remove "Clef_engraver"
}
ragged-right = ##t
indent = 3\cm
short-indent = 2\cm
}
}


-- 
Marek Klein
http://gregoriana.sk
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website non-git help

[Chris Snyder]

Andrew Hawryluk wrote:
> Could we add a link in the first paragraph to the (upcoming) essay?
> Perhaps on the words "beautifully engraved music". The essay was a
> prominent feature of the previous web design, and says a lot about the
> attention to detail that goes into LilyPond.

I'd like to see the essay prominently featured in the new design as
well. When I first found LilyPond, reading the essay changed my reaction
from the initial "Great! I found open-source engraving software that
will be useful." to "Damn! LilyPond looks better than any of its
competitors, including the expensive ones. These people know what
they're doing."

Perhaps one place for a link to the essay could be right under the
"Excellent classical engraving" subheading near the top of the Features
page: "Read more: The LilyPond philosophy"

Glancing at the Features page, I also just noticed a typo under
"Excellent support:" s/documetation/documentation/

-Chris

--
Chris Snyder
Adoro Music Publishing
1-616-828-4436 x800
http://www.adoromusicpub.com



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Chris Snyder]

Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
>> IMO, such a page is best reserved until people have a little bit
>> of experience with lilypond.
> Which will be a quite bad experience without a decent editing
> environment...

I agree with Bertalan. Editing environments are great to help people get
up to speed with LilyPond. The first thing I did when helping my wife
get started with LilyPond (she does most of my first drafts) was to set
up LilyPondTool. That removed multiple layers of complexity for her -
running LilyPond was a button-click away (rather than using the
command-line or navigating to the file in Explorer) and previewing was
just as simple as well.

I can understand wanting people to know how the internals work before
everything is wired up for them. The learning from the bottom-up
mentality is definitely the way I think (knowing *how* my car works -
rather than just what it does - for example, has been very valuable),
but I think it's unrealistic to expect potential users to adopt this
mindset overnight, without anyone personally helping them in the process.

Chris Snyder
Adoro Music Publishing
1-616-828-4436 x800
http://www.adoromusicpub.com



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op dinsdag 11-08-2009 om 03:49 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Graham
Percival:

> http://lilypond.org/~graham/

Thanks!

> Most of the people who have been working on the website, including
> me, are fed up with it.  

> If you feel at all
> enthusiastic about the new website, please consider helping.

I just pushed a couple of build and translation-infrastructure
fixes for the new site

   http://lilypond.org/~janneke/lilypond.org

Tiny bits of the Dutch and French home page are translated
so that you can see it works.

Much to my surprise I found we now have hardcoded file and directory
names buried in python scripts and libraries, deep inside scripts/
and python/ .  The funny thing is that all of these names can be
and actually are globbed by the makefile that drives these scripts.

> Make sure you check out the alternate CSS style #2.  This has
> fancy gradient-shaded menu bars, which could be a great hit.

I don't like the brown colours as much as the green ones.  I'm
not sure about the idea of the gradient, but it's better than
what we have now: no real feedback of where you are...

Also, (main) has become unhidden again.  Graham told me this
was a usability issue, ideas to fix this?

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen  | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
Avatar®: http://AvatarAcademy.nl| http://lilypond.org



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: staves with example notes, ancient and modern

[Denis . Roegel]

I would like to reproduce the first two staves of the section "Note  values"
on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensural_notation, with the label
on the left. That is, I am trying to make

 Modern ... staff ...
 notation (possibly with the note names)

 White notation ... staff ...
 (with the note names)



This is a rather general request. What is it that is giving you  difficulty?


Hi, perhaps I wasn't totally clear. I can get the two staves, but I want
the texts "Modern notation" and "White notation" on the left,
as well as an alignment of the notes. I wasn't sure about the best way
to achieve this, either by a LaTeX tabular, or internally in lilypond.

Have you started? Do you have some experience with  lilypond? Have  
you read the Learning Manual?


I have read some material and have typeset a Mozart sonata, as well
as several 16th century mensural pieces. I am currently working
on a very small project, and I have only a few things to do. All my
music is already typeset, but I want to annotate a few items.

Lastly, I don't know if you know about it, but there is a french   
speaking mailing list for lilypond users. It's at http://  
lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user-fr


Thanks, but usually, even when there is a French group, I prefer using
the English one, where people are generally more knowledgeable, and more
numerous.

Denis



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Carl Sorensen]

David,

Thanks for your comments, and for thinking carefully about your LilyPond
use.  I'm not sure exactly what you hoped to have happen as a result of this
post, so it's difficult for me to respond.  However, I do feel like I need
to clear up one point you made:


On 8/11/09 7:37 PM, "David Fedoruk"  wrote:


> 
> Lilypond isn't perfect, recently the way Lilypond works with Jazz chords and
> lead sheets has undergone drastic change. This was a matter of those who knew
> something some of the developers did not know or understand taking the time to
> explain how things worked in real life. It is difficult to tell an expert that
> he may be wrong about something. Choosing words carefully gets good results,
> rants almost never get the required results.
> 

I disagree that the drastic changes in Jazz chords and lead sheets is due to
those who knew something explaining to the developers.  In my opinion, the
drastic changes in Jazz chords and lead sheets is due to people who wanted
to improve things getting involved in making them happen:

1) Improved FretBoards context:  Carl Sorensen wanted it and went after it,
including transposable fret diagrams and N.C. symbol

2) Good chord-name-exceptions lists:  Rick Hansen and others provided them
to the list

3) Transposable lyric chord names: Tao Cumplido decided to create them

4) Improved tablature: Marc Hohl got it implemented

5) Improved chord namer: Thomas Morgan is working on it, and I expect great
results soon


I expect there are more improvements that I haven't included here, but the
key issue is that *somebody* decided they wanted it badly enough to figure
out a way to do it.  LilyPond progress is not limited by the amount the
developers know; it's limited by the amount of time the developers have
available to work on it.  Every developer has a TODO list that's longer than
they have time to deal with, so developers work on what they're interested
in.  And getting development done in some area you care about really means
getting some developer who cares about it as well.

This doesn't mean that non-developers shouldn't ask for features.  Feature
requests are always helpful.  But the best way to get features implemented
is to try to get working on them yourself and then ask for help.

Thanks,

Carl



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Simon Mackenzie]

Yeah it's proving to be an interesting learning experience trying to  
wrap my head around Lilypond. I feel it is like a multi-headed beast  
with Scheme & Lilypond script intermingled together. It makes for an  
interesting mix to get ones head around. The manuals are helpful but  
there are hugh gaps for any new and inexperienced user such as myself.


As for the output and end result. Every single person to whom I have  
presented printouts have only ever made very positive comments, from  
wood-be musicians to music teachers and choir masters all are amazed  
when I tell them I did this with a free music sheet program under  
linux. I'm no musician but the first time I printed one of the sample  
outputs it was easy to see Lilypond really does stand out amongst the  
rest.


Just wish I could figure out the global variable reassignment  
challenge so I can clean up my code and make it more presentable and  
easier to maintain.


Simon

On 12/08/2009, at 10:51, Werner LEMBERG wrote:




One other thing, much of the time I have questions, but do not know
how to ask the question. That is extremely frustrating and I don't
know if there is anything you can do about it. Sometimes i just
don't know the correct terminology to use. Many things that are
assumed when you are playing the music are not assumed when you are
typesetting the music. I've tripped over that one many times.


In most cases it is extremely helpful to provide a small image which
shows the problem you have.  For example, you could use a paint
program of your choice to mark what you want to change.


   Werner


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: problems with learning lilypond

[Werner LEMBERG]

> One other thing, much of the time I have questions, but do not know
> how to ask the question. That is extremely frustrating and I don't
> know if there is anything you can do about it. Sometimes i just
> don't know the correct terminology to use. Many things that are
> assumed when you are playing the music are not assumed when you are
> typesetting the music. I've tripped over that one many times.

In most cases it is extremely helpful to provide a small image which
shows the problem you have.  For example, you could use a paint
program of your choice to mark what you want to change.


Werner


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:07:20AM +0100, Mark Knoop wrote:
> At 20:43 on 11 Aug 2009, Graham Percival wrote:
> > Done; I changed it to "LilyPond... music notation for everyone".
> 
> It's still in the page title:
> 
> LilyPond... music notation for everyone: GNU LilyPond —
> Website

Ick.  Ok, I've managed to bludgeon texi2html into doing what I
wanted, but it wasn't pretty.

Cheers,
- Graham


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website non-git help

[Trevor Daniels]

Graham Percival wrote Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:27 AM


4)  I really want to have a "return to first page in this section"
link.  Currently that's called (main), which is a name that nobody
likes.  Find an alternate name for this, which ideally isn't very
long.  (otherwise the Manuals 2nd menu is too long for 800 pixels)


"Goal", maybe?  Or "Our goal".

Trevor



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Mark Knoop]

At 20:43 on 11 Aug 2009, Graham Percival wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:12:58PM -0300, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> > - GNU and (new) website can be trimmed from the title.
> 
> Done; I changed it to "LilyPond... music notation for everyone".

It's still in the page title:

LilyPond... music notation for everyone: GNU LilyPond —
Website


-- 
Mark Knoop


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up

[Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)]

Graham Percival wrote:

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:55:52AM -0400, Chris Snyder wrote:
  

Graham Percival wrote:


hey, that's life in open-source projects!  If you feel at all
enthusiastic about the new website, please consider helping.
  

I'd like to help, though I realize it's quite late in the game for me to
get up to speed on the environment you're using. One major area I see is
the editing environments page (which, as far as I can see, doesn't
currently exist).



IMO, such a page is best reserved until people have a little bit
of experience with lilypond. 

Which will be a quite bad experience without a decent editing environment...

Berti
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: setting notes alone

[MonAmiPierrot]

Carl Sorensen-3 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why you can't use lilypond-book?  That's the best way I
> know of to combind LilyPond with LaTeX.
> 
> 
> 

It is.
But I use LyX, which simplifies almost every LaTeX operation, it only makes
difficoult - if not impossible - to use third-party multi-pass systems as
lilypondbook is. Anyway LyX has an excellent "insert-Lilypond" tool for
inserting pieces of music. It is connected with lilypond: it refers sto the
.ly files and shows the eps result in the main screen, and with a click you
can modify the .ly files in your favourite editor. When a .ly file is
changed LyX "feels" it and start Lilypond again to render it correctly to
screen or in final pdf output. This environment is perfect to show "floats"
and other middle-size (not more than 1 page) examples. But it works also
with in-line small examples: only it would be much better if lilypond itself
cropped the unused whitespace up and above.




-
Piero Faustini

Main Software used:
- LyX 1.6.2 on WinXP sp3; EndNote & JabRef
- MikTex
- LaTeX class: Koma book
- Lilypond 2.12 for example excerpts
- BibLaTeX for bibliographies 


-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/setting-notes-alone-tp24901934p24931468.html
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: new website non-git help

[Marek Klein]

Hi, I also do like the new web, thank you all!

2009/8/12 Graham Percival 

>
> 1)  The current Introduction->Features and Introduction->Examples
> pages are intended to condense three pages from the old site.  One
> -user reader looked through them and said that the new page looks
> fine, but I'd like a few more people to examine them.
>
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/Features.html
> (I've made the links clearer)
>
> - are we missing any worthwhile info?  (like those bulleted lists
>  of features?)
>

What I like about Lilypond is separation of presentation and content. This
is also great with lyrics. I do much less lyrics typing with Lilypond
comparing with other software - If I have done one mass setting (Kyrie,
Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus, Agnus - plenty of lyrics) the second one
is much more easier. With strophic songs - adding new strophe means minute
or few of work (no matter if I want it one below the other, or one after the
other)
I don't see nice and simple way how to express this on the features page,
but maybe someone else could find it.

-- 
Marek Klein
http://gregoriana.sk
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user