Re: promoting LilyPond
On 03/12/13 22:47, David Kastrup wrote: You are aware that the Sibelius development team has been laid off due to financial problems of their parent company in spite of Sibelius having a paying market and turning a profit? Yes, fully. But there is still _a_ Sibelius development team, there is still commercial support and maintenance available, etc. etc. The worries are obvious, but only time will tell how damaging this really is to the software. Well, you can't lay them off, and you can't prohibit them from continuing to work on their software like the original authors of Sibelius who have no right to do anything with the sources written by themselves any more. And you can't prohibit anybody else from working on LilyPond in order to meet a company's needs. You should not take my words as an endorsement of non-free software, merely a recognition of the factors that many users take into account. Whether or not we like it, there is a general perception that commercially-backed software (whatever the licence) is in general more viable and future-proof than volunteer-driven efforts. Yes, the processes of contribution-based free software break in different ways to the processes of commercial proprietary software -- there are different risks and different benefits. But the fact is, someone using Sibelius now does not have to worry about the product being discontinued. Even if Avid decided to discontinue the product, its userbase, brand value and commercial viability would mean that someone would step in to buy it. By contrast, I do worry about what happens to Lilypond if for example you find yourself indisposed. I think we can all agree it would be a severe blow. :-) No question about that. I think a necessary step would be to move to GUILE2 first because the costs and tradeoffs of refactoring stuff between C++ and Scheme will be different, so this is more or less a prerequisite to make decisions and be able to factor in their costs. Makes sense to me. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ly:context-mod? list to string
Am 04.12.2013 07:46, schrieb David Kastrup:
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes:
Thanks for pointing this out.
with write I indeed see what I want to.
But when I try to pass that to a ly:message I'll get
Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting string): (critical-remark)
ly:message expects a string. You are passing it a list. That its first
element is a string does not change that.
The documentation says:
LY_DEFINE (ly_message, ly:message,
1, 0, 1, (SCM str, SCM rest),
A Scheme callable function to issue the message @var{str}.
The message is formatted with @code{format} and @var{rest}.)
So you need a format string here.
You can write (ly:message ~s\n your-variable) here and get what you
want output in Scheme form. If you don't want strings to be quoted, use
~a instead.
Thanks again. Now I see that this actually is what you already referred
you in your previous email.
Still driving me crazy all this ...
+1
You know you are agreeing with yourself?
Yes.
I wanted to express my frustration about the fact that yesterday I
thought I'd understood the issue and this morning - after changing a
tiny bit - I'm as dumb as before. ;-)
When in doubt, use
git grep
on the LilyPond code base to find usage examples for functions. I see
dak@lola:/usr/local/tmp/lilypond$ git grep ly:message
Documentation/contributor/programming-work.itexi:@tab @code{(ly:message msg args
input/regression/loglevels.ly:#(ly:message Test message\n)
lily/warn-scheme.cc:LY_DEFINE (ly_message, ly:message,
po/zh_TW.po:#. (ly:message (_ Converting to `~a'...)
scm/backend-library.scm:(ly:message (_ Converting to `~a'...\n) pdf-name)
scm/backend-library.scm:(ly:message (_ Converting to ~a...) PNG)
scm/backend-library.scm: (ly:message (_ Writing header field `~a' to `~a'...)
scm/documentation-lib.scm: (ly:message (_ Writing ~S...) x))
scm/framework-eps.scm: (ly:message (_ Writing ~
scm/framework-svg.scm:(ly:message (_ Updating font into: ~a) u
scm/graphviz.scm:(ly:message (format #f (_ Writing graph `~a'...) (port-fi
scm/lily.scm:(else (ly:message
scm/lily.scm:(ly:message
scm/lily.scm:(ly:message
scm/lily.scm:(ly:message (_ Redirecting output to ~a...) log-name)
scm/lily.scm:(ly:message # -*-compilation-*-))
scm/lily.scm:(ly:message (_ Invoking `~a'...\n) cmd)
scm/music-functions.scm:(apply ly:message msg rest
scm/safe-lily.scm: ly:message
scm/song.scm: (ly:message Writing Festival XML file ~a... filename)
scm/song.scm:(apply ly:message message (map pp args
scm/stencil.scm: (ly:message Writing ~a outname)
anf there are a few examples fitting your use case.
Ah, I'd already grepped the git repo in the past, but didn't see it as a
standard means when looking up usage information. Thanks.
Urs
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Re: Denemo-feedback
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 08:23 +0100, Johan Vromans wrote: Richard Shann richard.sh...@virgin.net writes: Right now I have a new entry option nearly complete - playing on a MIDI keyboard and then entering the rhythm. By hitting a MIDI keyboard key in the desired rhythm? Well, that is what is interesting: if you played in on a MIDI keyboard in perfect rhythm then you would be able to hit the accept key to accept the rhythm Denemo has computed. Indeed, if it was going to be perfect, you wouldn't need any second step, you could just go straight on to adding non-music features - repeat bar lines, rehearsal marks or WHY. What happens in practice is that the rhythm computed from your playing is full of errors and an artificial intelligence (AI) step is needed to get close to something that would be acceptable. (It has to be near perfect to make it worth giving to the user to check over, as fixing mistakes is far more costly than playing in the music). At the moment this AI step is the simplest possible, it goes through the durations that you played assigning them to the nearest note lengths using only whole-note 1/256th note and dotted versions of them (no triplet values have been entered in the table of durations). There are then two ways to go: Write some Scheme procedures to work out what the user likely wants, asking for the user to intervene where necessary Let the user start typing in the actual durations (on the numeric keypad) and learn from the first few what the likely durations of the succeeding notes are. So, once you have covered the rhythmic variety that you have in the passage, you would be able to go over to just hitting Return to accept Denemo's idea of the rhythm. This could include stuff like staccato markings, so that once you had shown it what you mean by a certain duration it could guess between say, a quarter note, a staccato quarter note and an eighth note followed by eighth note rest. At the moment, you can type in the duration on the numeric keypad or hit Return to accept the suggested duration. The note is played as you do this, so you can actually hear the piece as you go through it if you keep time. You have to enter rests, staccato markings etc. yourself. I will need to gain more experience of this system before deciding where to go next. The stuff is in Denemo's git now though, if folk like to experiment. The table of durations and the decision calculation using it is not currently available to Scheme, but if someone with Scheme wants to start experimenting it could be made available without problem, just ask. The system also works with imported MIDI files, which can have perfect rhythm if machine generated. Richard ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes: Yes, the processes of contribution-based free software break in different ways to the processes of commercial proprietary software -- there are different risks and different benefits. But the fact is, someone using Sibelius now does not have to worry about the product being discontinued. Even if Avid decided to discontinue the product, its userbase, brand value and commercial viability would mean that someone would step in to buy it. Uh, the original developers of Sibelius made Avid an offer for buying Sibelius back. The offer was turned down. The situation you are talking of is that of a complete discontinuation of every developer continuity: what someone would be buying would be a final dump, not a project in development. Even porting to a different platform will be difficult. Betting on Sibelius is nowhere like betting on Microsoft Office on Windows (which feels more like betting on a race track than on a horse since if it goes down, it will change how races are done). It's already a bouncing ball. By contrast, I do worry about what happens to Lilypond if for example you find yourself indisposed. I think we can all agree it would be a severe blow. :-) It would be a blow for its progress but not for its existence. I fancy myself to believe that I make a difference regarding where the equilibrium between maintainability, usability, bit rot, user experience, releasability and a few other things lies (or rather where it gravitates quite slowly). Without me, the equilibrium would likely move differently. But hopefully we are nowhere near the state that me quitting would lead to an unstable situation. And I have been cited as a reason that scares off new developers, so it would appear the vacuum would be filled by such new developers stepping in, and it's to be hoped that they'd be interested enough in maintaining stability and usability that they'd take care not to go off the deep end. Let's not forget that Han-Wen and Jan are basically indisposed (though available for reference) for most purposes, and that would appear to have been quite a larger blow that LilyPond got over reasonably well. Not to mention that Graham left, and it's hard to estimate what the ultimate cost of that will be, particularly regarding community building and maintaining. A good technical lead can't make up for everything: that's another shift in the equilibrium that happened in the recent past. What I am saying is that LilyPond survived a lot, and it survived this with a reasonable amount of continuity. A _sale_ of a software without accompanying infrastructure is not the same. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ly:context-mod? list to string
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Ah, I'd already grepped the git repo in the past, but didn't see it as a standard means when looking up usage information. Thanks. Well, in doubt the documentation string is relevant, but you have to find it first. git grep has the main advantage of being really fast. When I know some half-answer, I usually git-grep with parts of it, see where it can be found in the documentation, look for some context there, feed it into a web search engine and cite the result in answers. Alternatively, I use C-h i in Emacs and then the index for LilyPond's documentation (which is rather good, and Emacs searches the LilyPond doc's and follows index entries with autocompletion again basically instantaneously). And then I pick context, search in the HTML and so on. It's perhaps a bit of a letdown that a flat git-grep at the start often leads to results faster than a hierarchical search, but then with git-grep you know where to go in the hierarchy without having to backtrack. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
On 04/12/13 10:33, David Kastrup wrote: Uh, the original developers of Sibelius made Avid an offer for buying Sibelius back. The offer was turned down. Happy to have this discussion if you want it, but I think it's getting away from the point I wanted to make. It's simply that I don't see the risk of proprietary software stopping being maintained or developed as one that is appealing to many current Finale/Sibelius users. The risk of the software being sold to an irresponsible or greedy investor, or the risk of development being messed around with for commercial reasons, is a different risk (and an argument that IMO carries much more weight). I understand that we may have simply been talking about the same thing in different words, though. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes: On 04/12/13 10:33, David Kastrup wrote: Uh, the original developers of Sibelius made Avid an offer for buying Sibelius back. The offer was turned down. Happy to have this discussion if you want it, but I think it's getting away from the point I wanted to make. It's not really a discussion: I am just reiterating points already made a lot of times with regard to Free Software. Corporate parents can easily become a liability rather than an asset, and when that happens, you are powerless as a user. If you take a look at serious general-purpose programmers' editing environments, the market is more or less Eclipse, Emacs, vi clones (mostly vim). Open Source and/or Free Software. general-purpose programmers' are the buzz phrases where an open community really pays off for a product. general-purpose since it serves and is served back a larger variety of applications than the original developers imagined and/or could hope to care for, programmers' because those are in the situation to indeed contribute back. So we need to get LilyPond into the shape where an average programmer caring about mongolic double flute music can do what is needed to let LilyPond support it nicely without too many unexpected road blocks. We're not there yet. LilyPond is more a humongous blob of an application rather than a music typesetting _platform_, like Emacs is an easily extended editing platform. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Am 04.12.2013 11:18, schrieb David Kastrup: We're not there yet. LilyPond is more a humongous blob of an application rather than a music typesetting_platform_, like Emacs is an easily extended editing platform. Of course this would be a beautiful idea. And it's of course very good to work into that direction as we (and particularly you) do. But would you really think it is possible (actually, not theroretically) to reach such a state? Maybe Framework would be a nice label too. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Am 04.12.2013 11:18, schrieb David Kastrup: We're not there yet. LilyPond is more a humongous blob of an application rather than a music typesetting_platform_, like Emacs is an easily extended editing platform. Of course this would be a beautiful idea. And it's of course very good to work into that direction as we (and particularly you) do. But would you really think it is possible (actually, not theroretically) to reach such a state? Maybe Framework would be a nice label too. Oh, it's not a realistic goal to set. It never was a goal for Emacs to become a platform. It's just more or less a consequence if you have to serve a lot of different and possibly temporary interests very well while trying to keep the code base from becoming unmaintainable. Platform basically implies that the code base needs to get divided along similar lines as the interest of the community and the various applications. The alternatives are staying single-purpose (where single is not literal but implies a small number), or becoming unmaintainable. We'll see where LilyPond will end up. But it's not really a goal you can set yourself, it's more or less _how_ you go about reaching the goals that you actually _do_ set yourself. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
On 04/12/13 11:18, David Kastrup wrote: It's not really a discussion: I am just reiterating points already made a lot of times with regard to Free Software. Corporate parents can easily become a liability rather than an asset, and when that happens, you are powerless as a user. Yes, I'm very familiar with those arguments, and in the general sense I strongly agree with them. It's just that in practice, based on experience, I find that the weight others will give to those arguments tend to vary a great deal based on context. So, if you're trying to promote your software solution to other people, you need to tailor the message with that in mind. For example, the risk of your software ceasing to be maintained or developed is often (for good reason) not seen as a high risk by users of major proprietary software tools. The risk of a business decision being taken that undermines the software's usefulness is taken much more seriously, but even then that risk gets offset against costs of migration, and the perceived maintainability of alternatives. In that context having a corporate body to deal with is generally considered a major plus (and a volunteer community, often something of a negative) regardless of the licensing situation, because it generally attests to the economic sustainability of the software in question. So I'm not disagreeing with you or the general free software philosophy, I'm just pointing out that -- like free-as-in-beer -- not all of these benefits are necessarily perceived as such by prospective users. And I think one particular point you raised fits that bill. So we need to get LilyPond into the shape where an average programmer caring about mongolic double flute music can do what is needed to let LilyPond support it nicely without too many unexpected road blocks. Yes. Generally speaking whenever I consider some development idea in Lilypond, I quickly come up against the realization that the investment of time required just to work out how to _start_ doing it is extremely large, and doesn't bring with it a lot of transferable knowledge. So, it's difficult to justify putting that effort in compared to (say) providing an overview of what I want and offering a bounty. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Inconsistent behavior with additional staves?
Hello everyone,
first: I'm new on this mailing list, so I hope I'm on the right place
for my question:
today when working with LilyPond, I noticed some strange behaviour with
additional staves. Have a look at the LilyPond code below. When
interpreting this, the staves named eigth and sixteenth do not end
after the end of the note but contine futher on. The staves named
full, half and quarter end after the end of the note as expected.
I think you will be able to reproduce this behavior, i checked it with
LilyPond 2.16 and 2.17.95. This inconsistency also happens in a slightly
different manner when changing \context to \new. I cannot see this
is intended, so is it a bug?
(If someone is not able to reproduce what I'm talking about, please tell
me...)
Thank you in advance :)
Lovis
[Lilypond Source Code below]
-
\version 2.17.95
\new Staff = main {
c''1 |
\context Staff = full { c'1 }
\context Staff = half { c'2 }
\context Staff = quarter { c'4 }
\context Staff = eigth { c'8 }
\context Staff = sixteenth { c'16}
|
c''1 |
\context Staff = full { c'1 }
\context Staff = half { c'2 }
\context Staff = quarter { c'4 }
\context Staff = eigth { c'8 }
\context Staff = sixteenth { c'16}
|
c''1 |
\context Staff = full { c'1 }
\context Staff = half { c'2 }
\context Staff = quarter { c'4 }
\context Staff = eigth { c'8 }
\context Staff = sixteenth { c'16}
|
c''1 |
}
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New ancient music font available, but not for us
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/leipzig-urtext-fonts-now-available-from-fontshop/ I like these fonts, but do you agree with me that the second example partially spoils the impression through too regular spacing? I would love to see the same typeset through LilyPond ... One more point for the wish (I know that's difficult) to be able to use arbitrary fonts with LilyPond ... Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
type of location argument
Hi, next helpless question: what Scheme type is the location argument used for Scheme functions? (write)ing location gives #location /home/uliska/git/openLilyLib/snippets/editorial-tools/annotate/examples.ly:29:3 While I didn't find anything about the # combination in Scheme in general I have the impression that is an object of some kind. Looking for the definition of ly:input-message I was lead to unsmob_input in input-smob.cc - but that doesn't help me any further to understand what's going on (I can read C++ like I can read a Spanish newspaper based on my knowledge of French and (partially) Italian). How can I access the items in this location individually, at least the string, better the file, line and cursor position independently? And how could I create something like ly:input-message, but without quoting the respective input? I would like to create a clickable input message, but in the context of a series of information, so the output of the code context lines should be avoided. Thanks Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: type of location argument
Am 04.12.2013 14:58, schrieb Urs Liska: Hi, next helpless question: what Scheme type is the location argument used for Scheme functions? (write)ing location gives Hi, its: ly:input-location? HTH ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: type of location argument
Am 04.12.2013 15:00, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:
Am 04.12.2013 14:58, schrieb Urs Liska:
Hi,
next helpless question: what Scheme type is the location argument used
for Scheme functions?
(write)ing location gives
Hi, its:
ly:input-location?
HTH
Unfortunately not (TH).
This is what redirects me to
Input *
unsmob_input (SCM s)
{
if (SCM_IMP (s))
return 0;
if (SCM_CAR (s) == (SCM)input_tag) // ugh.
return (Input *) SCM_CDR (s);
else
return 0;
}
And that's where I get stuck. This function looks like it somehow munges
a Scheme pair or list, so I tried to access it through
(car location)
but that didn't work. Which isn't surprising because the original
(write) would have printed something like (location ...) if it were a
list, isn't it?
Urs
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Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
Hi, when I'm trying to determine the the position in a piece when inside a music function I think I have to use either ly:context-current-moment or ly:context-now Both functions take a 'context' as argument, but I don't see where this should be taken from. so a) how do I get a current context from when inside a Scheme function? and b) how would I proceed to determine the position in a score when the Scheme function is called? I don't know if I need a) for b) but wanted to ask for it anyway. Best Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: type of location argument
Am 04.12.2013 15:04, schrieb Urs Liska:
Hi, its:
ly:input-location?
HTH
Unfortunately not (TH).
This is what redirects me to
Input *
unsmob_input (SCM s)
{
if (SCM_IMP (s))
return 0;
if (SCM_CAR (s) == (SCM)input_tag) // ugh.
return (Input *) SCM_CDR (s);
else
return 0;
}
And that's where I get stuck. This function looks like it somehow munges
a Scheme pair or list, so I tried to access it through
(car location)
but that didn't work. Which isn't surprising because the original
(write) would have printed something like (location ...) if it were a
list, isn't it?
What are you trying to do? If you want to pass a location to a
music(scheme/void)-function, it looks like:
%%%
\version 2.17.96
% save the current location
saveLocation =
#(define-void-function (parser location name)(symbol?)
(ly:parser-define! parser name location))
% show the file path of the given location
showFile =
#(define-void-function (parser location loc)(ly:input-location?)
(ly:message file '~A' (car (ly:input-file-line-char-column location
% save location
\saveLocation hier
% show file name
\showFile \hier
%%%
The showFile function takes a ly:input-location as argument.
Or is it something else, you are going to do?
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Re: type of location argument
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes:
Am 04.12.2013 15:00, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:
Am 04.12.2013 14:58, schrieb Urs Liska:
Hi,
next helpless question: what Scheme type is the location argument used
for Scheme functions?
(write)ing location gives
Hi, its:
ly:input-location?
HTH
Unfortunately not (TH).
Wanna bet?
This is what redirects me to
Input *
unsmob_input (SCM s)
{
if (SCM_IMP (s))
return 0;
if (SCM_CAR (s) == (SCM)input_tag) // ugh.
return (Input *) SCM_CDR (s);
else
return 0;
}
And that's where I get stuck. This function looks like it somehow
munges a Scheme pair or list, so I tried to access it through
(car location)
but that didn't work.
Oh, that's bloody entrails you are dealing with here, the raw C++ code
used for implementing a Scheme type. You don't want to go there. Not
even the C++ code wants to go there more than once.
Which isn't surprising because the original (write) would have printed
something like (location ...) if it were a list, isn't it?
#... basically means Uh, I have no way of printing this primitive
type in a way that could be read back in, but here is some information
anyway.
The naming consistency for input locations and their related Scheme and
C++ types and print results is actually screwed up much more than any
other type I can think of. It was probably implemented before Jan and
Han-Wen figured out how to do things systematically.
You won't learn anything useful from _this_ code.
What are you trying to achieve?
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Hi, when I'm trying to determine the the position in a piece when inside a music function I think I have to use either ly:context-current-moment or ly:context-now That's stupid: they do the same thing. Why do we have the same function twice? Both functions take a 'context' as argument, but I don't see where this should be taken from. so a) how do I get a current context from when inside a Scheme function? That one's easy: there first _has_ to be a current context. Contexts are only created when a music expression is getting iterated. So you need to have your Scheme function called during iteration. The easiest way to do this is to use \applyMusic. It will be called for every iteration of a score, so if you are doing midi, you'll get it called there as well. and b) how would I proceed to determine the position in a score when the Scheme function is called? Seems like it would do that. Again: what are you trying to do? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: type of location argument
Am 04.12.2013 16:34, schrieb David Kastrup:
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes:
Am 04.12.2013 15:00, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:
Am 04.12.2013 14:58, schrieb Urs Liska:
Hi,
next helpless question: what Scheme type is the location argument used
for Scheme functions?
(write)ing location gives
Hi, its:
ly:input-location?
HTH
Unfortunately not (TH).
Wanna bet?
This is what redirects me to
Input *
unsmob_input (SCM s)
{
if (SCM_IMP (s))
return 0;
if (SCM_CAR (s) == (SCM)input_tag) // ugh.
return (Input *) SCM_CDR (s);
else
return 0;
}
And that's where I get stuck. This function looks like it somehow
munges a Scheme pair or list, so I tried to access it through
(car location)
but that didn't work.
Oh, that's bloody entrails you are dealing with here, the raw C++ code
used for implementing a Scheme type. You don't want to go there. Not
even the C++ code wants to go there more than once.
Which isn't surprising because the original (write) would have printed
something like (location ...) if it were a list, isn't it?
#... basically means Uh, I have no way of printing this primitive
type in a way that could be read back in, but here is some information
anyway.
The naming consistency for input locations and their related Scheme and
C++ types and print results is actually screwed up much more than any
other type I can think of. It was probably implemented before Jan and
Han-Wen figured out how to do things systematically.
You won't learn anything useful from _this_ code.
What are you trying to achieve?
I want to write a function \annotate that (among other things) does
- use the location to write out annotation lists to auxiliary files, for
this I need the separate parts of the location
- print a message to the console like ly:input-message, but without
quoting what is in the input file at the location.
I'm quite sure Jan-Peter's answer will keep me going (until the next
obstacle arrives ...)
Thanks
Urs
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Re: type of location argument
Am 04.12.2013 16:33, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:
Am 04.12.2013 15:04, schrieb Urs Liska:
Hi, its:
ly:input-location?
HTH
Unfortunately not (TH).
This is what redirects me to
Input *
unsmob_input (SCM s)
{
if (SCM_IMP (s))
return 0;
if (SCM_CAR (s) == (SCM)input_tag) // ugh.
return (Input *) SCM_CDR (s);
else
return 0;
}
And that's where I get stuck. This function looks like it somehow munges
a Scheme pair or list, so I tried to access it through
(car location)
but that didn't work. Which isn't surprising because the original
(write) would have printed something like (location ...) if it were a
list, isn't it?
What are you trying to do? If you want to pass a location to a
music(scheme/void)-function, it looks like:
%%%
\version 2.17.96
% save the current location
saveLocation =
#(define-void-function (parser location name)(symbol?)
(ly:parser-define! parser name location))
% show the file path of the given location
showFile =
#(define-void-function (parser location loc)(ly:input-location?)
(ly:message file '~A' (car (ly:input-file-line-char-column location
% save location
\saveLocation hier
% show file name
\showFile \hier
%%%
The showFile function takes a ly:input-location as argument.
Or is it something else, you are going to do?
Thanks a lot. It's _nearly_ what I want to do, but I'm quite sure it
will help me do it.
(cdr (ly:input-file-line-char-column location))
was the thing ...
Urs
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Re: Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
Am 04.12.2013 16:39, schrieb David Kastrup: Again: what are you trying to do? Probably my reply to your previous answer will have told you in the meantime. My \annotate function should also store the position in the score (to print that out and to sort by it). So when I use the function in the input file it should store location elements and current measure and measure position in several variables. The main goal of that is to make it possible to annotate a score with different types of comments (general annotation, todo, technical question, musical question, critical note etc.). When compiling the score it will (among other things) output one or several files (don't know yet) with sorted list(s) of (clickable) annotations. That way I'll have a list of things that still have to be done. Reading the list I can simply click on an item and go to the input file. Once that's reasonably stable I intend to write a LaTeX package that can use the output of \annotate (at least the critical notes) and insert them as a critical report in a LaTeX file. (Of course it won't be trivial to make that generally useful, but I think it's possible). This way one will be able to edit a critical report directly in the musical score. I found proof-reading of our Fried songs edition _very_ tedious. I had repeatedly (and with repeatedly I mean 7 pages of three-column scriptsize revision entries) to - compare original edition with new engraving - if there was a difference: check if there is an entry for that - if not: decide if it's an error in our score or if I have to add an entry. always switching between paper print, LilyPond edition and files and the LaTeX file with the report. With that \annotate framework I could immediately see if there's an entry - in the .ly file - and add or edit it. Also, while preparing the edition I could add an annotation at any time when I notice a questionable item. And when I'm decided about the issue I can change the annotation type from question to critical-note to make it available for the official report. Surely a long way to go (particulary if I'm still having to poke around so much with Scheme basics), but hopefully very rewarding. If it works out it will be a big selling point towards professional academics. Best Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
Am 04.12.2013 17:01, schrieb Urs Liska: My \annotate function should also store the position in the score (to print that out and to sort by it). So when I use the function in the input file it should store location elements and current measure and measure position in several variables. so yout need some kind of music function, that inserts an info to the music objects, which will be caught by an engraver, or you use applyContext. Then you need some kind of singleton, which holds the annotations. Then you can add them anywhere and get the list afterwards. Later more on that ... ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Different beaming for triplets
I've been asked a beaming rule question:
Is it possible to specify a different beaming rule if a beat is divided
into a triplet? In this example
\version 2.16.0
\score {
{\time 3/8
d''4 \times 2/3 { bes''16 a'' bes'' }
fis''8 g''8 r
ees'' \times 2/3 { d''16 c'' bes' } \times 2/3 { a' g' fis' }
g'16. a'32 bes'8 a'
}
}
The triplet is beamed together with the 1/8 notes, this override
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'(1 1 1) #'()
breaks up the beaming at each beat so that the 1/8th notes in the second
bar are not beamed. Is there a way to frame an override that applies to
notes shorter than a certain amount, or some such?
Richard
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Re: Inconsistent behavior with additional staves?
- Original Message -
From: Lovis Suchmann panlo...@aol.com
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: Inconsistent behavior with additional staves?
Hello everyone,
first: I'm new on this mailing list, so I hope I'm on the right place for
my question:
today when working with LilyPond, I noticed some strange behaviour with
additional staves. Have a look at the LilyPond code below. When
interpreting this, the staves named eigth and sixteenth do not end
after the end of the note but contine futher on. The staves named full,
half and quarter end after the end of the note as expected. I think
you will be able to reproduce this behavior, i checked it with LilyPond
2.16 and 2.17.95. This inconsistency also happens in a slightly different
manner when changing \context to \new. I cannot see this is intended,
so is it a bug?
(If someone is not able to reproduce what I'm talking about, please tell
me...)
Thank you in advance :)
Lovis
I've no idea what you're trying to achieve, or why LilyPond is doing this,
but it's easy to work around:
\context Staff = eigth { c'8 s128 }
\context Staff = sixteenth { c'16 s128 }
--
Phil Holmes
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Re: Help ~ LilyPond Tablature
Hello, I need some help with this concern. I just wanted to know what is this bongos notation about, I do not understand what “bohm” or “boho” is, it would be a pleasure to get some help of you guys, I would definitely thank you if you send me a brief description of this notation, it is interesting because I use the bongos and I teach how to play them, having handy this notation is a plus to enhance the teaching. Thank you in advance.attachment: lily-4934413a.png___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Different beaming for triplets
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
I've been asked a beaming rule question:
Is it possible to specify a different beaming rule if a beat is divided
into a triplet? In this example
\version 2.16.0
\score {
{\time 3/8
d''4 \times 2/3 { bes''16 a'' bes'' }
fis''8 g''8 r
ees'' \times 2/3 { d''16 c'' bes' } \times 2/3 { a' g' fis' }
g'16. a'32 bes'8 a'
}
}
The triplet is beamed together with the 1/8 notes, this override
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'(1 1 1) #'()
breaks up the beaming at each beat so that the 1/8th notes in the second
bar are not beamed. Is there a way to frame an override that applies to
notes shorter than a certain amount, or some such?
Yes, that's what the last argument is for (the second to last can just
be #'() as this will default to beaming on the beat).
You'd write
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'()
\beamExceptions { 8[ 8 8] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { 16[ 16 16] } }
Except that you are not using 2.19.0. In 2.16.0, the beam exceptions
(calculated above with \beamExceptions) would look like
#'((end . (((1 . 8) . (3)) ((1 . 24) . (3 3 3)
This will beam the tuplets or shorter on the beat.
--
David Kastrup
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RE: Different beaming for triplets
Richard,
This may help:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/beams#setting-autom
atic-beam-behavior
Mark
-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Shann
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 8:30 AM
To: lilypond-user
Subject: Different beaming for triplets
I've been asked a beaming rule question:
Is it possible to specify a different beaming rule if a beat is divided into
a triplet? In this example
\version 2.16.0
\score {
{\time 3/8
d''4 \times 2/3 { bes''16 a'' bes'' }
fis''8 g''8 r
ees'' \times 2/3 { d''16 c'' bes' } \times 2/3 { a' g' fis' }
g'16. a'32 bes'8 a'
}
}
The triplet is beamed together with the 1/8 notes, this override
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'(1 1 1) #'()
breaks up the beaming at each beat so that the 1/8th notes in the second bar
are not beamed. Is there a way to frame an override that applies to notes
shorter than a certain amount, or some such?
Richard
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Re: Help ~ LilyPond Tablature
hi, On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Раул Апонт raulapo...@bk.ru wrote: I just wanted to know what is this bongos notation about, I do not understand what bohm or boho is, it would be a pleasure to get some help of you guys, I would definitely thank you if you send me a brief description of this notation, it is interesting because I use the bongos and I teach how to play them, having handy this notation is a plus to enhance the teaching. Thank you in advance. boh = bongo high boho = bongo high open bohm = bongo high muted ssh = side stick high bol = bongo low bolo = bongo low open bolm = bongo low muted ssl = side stick low the -o form prints an o symbol over the notehead. the -m form prints a + symbol over the notehead. regards, sb -- Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
Warning. I this message, Why don't we does not mean do it, you slave. It means just asking do you think it's a worthwhile idea? The thread about usability and promoting has forked too much and my thoughts are somewhat related to both. I am crossposting to hear users feedback also, sorry for that. I keep seeing newcomers double-clicking the LilyPond icon on the desktop despite of our warnings about not to do that. LaTeX is also just a typesetting engine and people do not try to work with it by first clicking on a desktop icon, do they? I don't really know what's the Windows LaTeX experience like, but I can assume the user base of LaTeX is far greater than LilyPond's, and newcomers have always an experienced user in the nearby ready to help. That's the critical mass effect that Finale and Sibelius already have and we don't. Despite of having a README just in front of your eyes, IMO we should expect people will always try to open lilypond to work in a typical program window. Why don't we just give them what they want? That is: a program you open. All programs are opened and it doesn't matter how hard we try, most people want to open the program. We could make the lilypond icon to launch a shell applet to open ly projects and a button to compile. Of course, a console output window and a PDF pre-viewer are necessary. I see the drag-drop ritual in the tutorial too few standard, too weird and too much lilypond-specific. That scares newcomers. But wait: this has been done. Valentin Villenave dit it once. A bundle that installed a PDF viewer and a small button panel with all the most basic operatons. I don't remember if it included a message output. But wait again: Frescobaldi already does this. It is super-easy to install on windows and it has got all the necessary items: an editor, a pre-viewer and a message output panel. Of course it has many, many more features, but even so it is lightweight (unlike the now almost defunct jEdit/lilypondtool). Why don't we do a cut-down Frescobaldi-like shell for the absolute beginner? The File-Open... menu entry must include a sub-menu with a lot of ready_to_compile fancy or real-world examples. Yes, we already promote easier environments, but in my opinion the bare minimum we offer is too weak as to be useful for all except mid-high level nerdies. I always think all you do to lower the entry threshold is never enough and ours is currently a bit too high. It's not the language, it's the experience. And never forget Windows users are potentially way more numerous than command line users. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Different beaming for triplets
Thank you David (and to the others that replied), I had a go at getting
my head round this before I asked, I find it a serious challenge. It
would be nice to have a graphical way of selecting what you want
visually and letting the computer do the hard work...
Your new 2.19 syntax certainly looks an improvement!
Richard
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 18:00 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
I've been asked a beaming rule question:
Is it possible to specify a different beaming rule if a beat is divided
into a triplet? In this example
\version 2.16.0
\score {
{\time 3/8
d''4 \times 2/3 { bes''16 a'' bes'' }
fis''8 g''8 r
ees'' \times 2/3 { d''16 c'' bes' } \times 2/3 { a' g' fis' }
g'16. a'32 bes'8 a'
}
}
The triplet is beamed together with the 1/8 notes, this override
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'(1 1 1) #'()
breaks up the beaming at each beat so that the 1/8th notes in the second
bar are not beamed. Is there a way to frame an override that applies to
notes shorter than a certain amount, or some such?
Yes, that's what the last argument is for (the second to last can just
be #'() as this will default to beaming on the beat).
You'd write
\overrideTimeSignatureSettings 3/8 1/8 #'()
\beamExceptions { 8[ 8 8] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { 16[ 16 16] } }
Except that you are not using 2.19.0. In 2.16.0, the beam exceptions
(calculated above with \beamExceptions) would look like
#'((end . (((1 . 8) . (3)) ((1 . 24) . (3 3 3)
This will beam the tuplets or shorter on the beat.
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Re: Different beaming for triplets
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 16:52 +, Phil Holmes wrote: - Original Message - From: Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 4:30 PM Subject: Different beaming for triplets I've been asked a beaming rule question: Is it possible to specify a different beaming rule if a beat is divided into a triplet? In this example ... Can you use manual beaming? you can, and if you don't want to look at the LilyPond output you can even set up a snippet in Denemo with this beaming in it and use that just as easily as the default triplet. But it would be nice not to clutter the output, hence the beaming rule question. Richard ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
On 04/12/13 17:24, Francisco Vila wrote: Warning. I this message, Why don't we does not mean do it, you slave. It means just asking do you think it's a worthwhile idea? The thread about usability and promoting has forked too much and my thoughts are somewhat related to both. I am crossposting to hear users feedback also, sorry for that. I keep seeing newcomers double-clicking the LilyPond icon on the desktop despite of our warnings about not to do that. LaTeX is also just a typesetting engine and people do not try to work with it by first clicking on a desktop icon, do they? I don't really know what's the Windows LaTeX experience like, but I can assume the user base of LaTeX is far greater than LilyPond's, and newcomers have always an experienced user in the nearby ready to help. That's the critical mass effect that Finale and Sibelius already have and we don't. Despite of having a README just in front of your eyes, IMO we should expect people will always try to open lilypond to work in a typical program window. Why don't we just give them what they want? That is: a program you open. All programs are opened and it doesn't matter how hard we try, most people want to open the program. We could make the lilypond icon to launch a shell applet to open ly projects and a button to compile. Of course, a console output window and a PDF pre-viewer are necessary. I see the drag-drop ritual in the tutorial too few standard, too weird and too much lilypond-specific. That scares newcomers. But wait: this has been done. Valentin Villenave dit it once. A bundle that installed a PDF viewer and a small button panel with all the most basic operatons. I don't remember if it included a message output. But wait again: Frescobaldi already does this. It is super-easy to install on windows and it has got all the necessary items: an editor, a pre-viewer and a message output panel. Of course it has many, many more features, but even so it is lightweight (unlike the now almost defunct jEdit/lilypondtool). Why don't we do a cut-down Frescobaldi-like shell for the absolute beginner? The File-Open... menu entry must include a sub-menu with a lot of ready_to_compile fancy or real-world examples. Yes, we already promote easier environments, but in my opinion the bare minimum we offer is too weak as to be useful for all except mid-high level nerdies. I always think all you do to lower the entry threshold is never enough and ours is currently a bit too high. It's not the language, it's the experience. And never forget Windows users are potentially way more numerous than command line users. Like this : http://lilypond.org/macos-x.html Are you just asking for a 'Lilypad' but for Windows? James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
- Original Message - From: Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com To: LilyPond-User list lilypond-user@gnu.org; LilyPond-Devel list lilypond-de...@gnu.org Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 5:24 PM Subject: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc) Warning. I this message, Why don't we does not mean do it, you slave. It means just asking do you think it's a worthwhile idea? The thread about usability and promoting has forked too much and my thoughts are somewhat related to both. I am crossposting to hear users feedback also, sorry for that. I keep seeing newcomers double-clicking the LilyPond icon on the desktop despite of our warnings about not to do that. LaTeX is also just a typesetting engine and people do not try to work with it by first clicking on a desktop icon, do they? I don't really know what's the Windows LaTeX experience like, but I can assume the user base of LaTeX is far greater than LilyPond's, and newcomers have always an experienced user in the nearby ready to help. That's the critical mass effect that Finale and Sibelius already have and we don't. Despite of having a README just in front of your eyes, IMO we should expect people will always try to open lilypond to work in a typical program window. Why don't we just give them what they want? That is: a program you open. All programs are opened and it doesn't matter how hard we try, most people want to open the program. We could make the lilypond icon to launch a shell applet to open ly projects and a button to compile. Of course, a console output window and a PDF pre-viewer are necessary. I see the drag-drop ritual in the tutorial too few standard, too weird and too much lilypond-specific. That scares newcomers. But wait: this has been done. Valentin Villenave dit it once. A bundle that installed a PDF viewer and a small button panel with all the most basic operatons. I don't remember if it included a message output. But wait again: Frescobaldi already does this. It is super-easy to install on windows and it has got all the necessary items: an editor, a pre-viewer and a message output panel. Of course it has many, many more features, but even so it is lightweight (unlike the now almost defunct jEdit/lilypondtool). Why don't we do a cut-down Frescobaldi-like shell for the absolute beginner? The File-Open... menu entry must include a sub-menu with a lot of ready_to_compile fancy or real-world examples. Yes, we already promote easier environments, but in my opinion the bare minimum we offer is too weak as to be useful for all except mid-high level nerdies. I always think all you do to lower the entry threshold is never enough and ours is currently a bit too high. It's not the language, it's the experience. And never forget Windows users are potentially way more numerous than command line users. For me, I'd say that we should not install Frescobaldi as a pre-requisite of running Lily on Windows. I'm a heavy Windows user, and would not want another program installed by default. I've not used it, but I do understand that many people feel it's excellent - so an option would be to promote it more heavily for Windows users? I am willing to look at improving the Windows experience, although this would need to wait until my degree finishes next Summer. However, there's one thing I don't know: what should happen when you double-click a .ly file in Explorer: open an editor or compile the file? And if the former, how should the file be compiled? -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Different beaming for triplets
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
Thank you David (and to the others that replied), I had a go at
getting my head round this before I asked, I find it a serious
challenge.
Yes.
It would be nice to have a graphical way of selecting what you want
visually and letting the computer do the hard work...
Your new 2.19 syntax certainly looks an improvement!
Note:
\beamExceptions { 8[ 8 8] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { 16[ 16 16] } }
rather than
#'((end . (((1 . 8) . (3)) ((1 . 24) . (3 3 3)
Well, you can also write
\beamExceptions { c8[ c c] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { c16[ c c] } }
which will look more familiar. But I am rather fond of the 2.19 way of
being able to enter rhythms without the distraction of pitches.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
I am willing to look at improving the Windows experience, although this would need to wait until my degree finishes next Summer. However, there's one thing I don't know: what should happen when you double-click a .ly file in Explorer: open an editor or compile the file? And if the former, how should the file be compiled? -- Phil Holmes I think double-clicking should open an editor while there should be a right-click command to compile (maybe evon label it Create PDF). Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
LilyPond (and Denemo?)
Hello, Can someone take a quick look at this and see if what I'm experiencing is normal? I just did a fresh install of Denemo and opened it for the first time. This is what I see: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22105560/Denemo%20Startup%20Config.mp4 (I've also attached a small (2MB) video file if you prefer to watch it offline and not stream it.) The bottom of the screen is what I'm mainly concerned with (clutter?). Thank you so much for taking a look! Ben Denemo_Startup_Config.mp4 http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/n155027/Denemo_Startup_Config.mp4 - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-and-Denemo-tp155027.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
pkx166h wrote On 04/12/13 17:24, Francisco Vila wrote: Warning. I this message, Why don't we does not mean do it, you slave. It means just asking do you think it's a worthwhile idea? The thread about usability and promoting has forked too much and my thoughts are somewhat related to both. I am crossposting to hear users feedback also, sorry for that. I keep seeing newcomers double-clicking the LilyPond icon on the desktop despite of our warnings about not to do that. LaTeX is also just a typesetting engine and people do not try to work with it by first clicking on a desktop icon, do they? I don't really know what's the Windows LaTeX experience like, but I can assume the user base of LaTeX is far greater than LilyPond's, and newcomers have always an experienced user in the nearby ready to help. That's the critical mass effect that Finale and Sibelius already have and we don't. Despite of having a README just in front of your eyes, IMO we should expect people will always try to open lilypond to work in a typical program window. Why don't we just give them what they want? That is: a program you open. All programs are opened and it doesn't matter how hard we try, most people want to open the program. We could make the lilypond icon to launch a shell applet to open ly projects and a button to compile. Of course, a console output window and a PDF pre-viewer are necessary. I see the drag-drop ritual in the tutorial too few standard, too weird and too much lilypond-specific. That scares newcomers. But wait: this has been done. Valentin Villenave dit it once. A bundle that installed a PDF viewer and a small button panel with all the most basic operatons. I don't remember if it included a message output. But wait again: Frescobaldi already does this. It is super-easy to install on windows and it has got all the necessary items: an editor, a pre-viewer and a message output panel. Of course it has many, many more features, but even so it is lightweight (unlike the now almost defunct jEdit/lilypondtool). Why don't we do a cut-down Frescobaldi-like shell for the absolute beginner? The File-Open... menu entry must include a sub-menu with a lot of ready_to_compile fancy or real-world examples. Yes, we already promote easier environments, but in my opinion the bare minimum we offer is too weak as to be useful for all except mid-high level nerdies. I always think all you do to lower the entry threshold is never enough and ours is currently a bit too high. It's not the language, it's the experience. And never forget Windows users are potentially way more numerous than command line users. Like this : http://lilypond.org/macos-x.html Are you just asking for a 'Lilypad' but for Windows? James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@ https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user I'm confused. There is a Lilypad for Windows. It comes standard w/ the LilyPond installation. ? - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/A-thought-on-Windows-Experience-was-useability-promoting-etc-tp155017p155028.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
From: Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 6:16 PM I am willing to look at improving the Windows experience, although this would need to wait until my degree finishes next Summer. However, there's one thing I don't know: what should happen when you double-click a .ly file in Explorer: open an editor or compile the file? And if the former, how should the file be compiled? -- Phil Holmes I think double-clicking should open an editor while there should be a right-click command to compile (maybe evon label it Create PDF). Urs +1 Phil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond (and Denemo?)
Am 04.12.2013 19:23, schrieb SoundsFromSound: Hello, Can someone take a quick look at this and see if what I'm experiencing is normal? I just did a fresh install of Denemo and opened it for the first time. This is what I see: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22105560/Denemo%20Startup%20Config.mp4 (I've also attached a small (2MB) video file if you prefer to watch it offline and not stream it.) Thats exactly my experience, too. (as reported yesterday). Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond (and Denemo?)
Noeck wrote Am 04.12.2013 19:23, schrieb SoundsFromSound: Hello, Can someone take a quick look at this and see if what I'm experiencing is normal? I just did a fresh install of Denemo and opened it for the first time. This is what I see: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22105560/Denemo%20Startup%20Config.mp4 (I've also attached a small (2MB) video file if you prefer to watch it offline and not stream it.) Thats exactly my experience, too. (as reported yesterday). Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@ https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user Thanks for checking! (and sorry about putting this on the LP mailing list) - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-and-Denemo-tp155027p155031.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
2013/12/4 SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com: I'm confused. There is a Lilypad for Windows. It comes standard w/ the LilyPond installation. ? Yes. But it opens IIRC when you right-click on a ly document, then choose Edit. This lilypad editor does have a menu entry to compile. So, it is a sort of shell/editor. I find this path tortuous. People double-click the lilypond icon, and don't see this shell as many of them could expect. Instead, ugly things happen. Therefore, lilypond is ugly. I think this summarizes the start and the end of a newcomer's experience. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com writes: But wait: this has been done. Valentin Villenave dit it once. A bundle that installed a PDF viewer and a small button panel with all the most basic operatons. I don't remember if it included a message output. I was of the impression that LilyPad _was_ what was delivered with the Windows installer. But wait again: Frescobaldi already does this. It is super-easy to install on windows and it has got all the necessary items: an editor, a pre-viewer and a message output panel. Of course it has many, many more features, but even so it is lightweight (unlike the now almost defunct jEdit/lilypondtool). Why don't we do a cut-down Frescobaldi-like shell for the absolute beginner? The File-Open... menu entry must include a sub-menu with a lot of ready_to_compile fancy or real-world examples. The last time this discussion came up, Frescobaldi did not work on MacOSX. And it comes with its own dependencies. And installers. I always think all you do to lower the entry threshold is never enough and ours is currently a bit too high. It's not the language, it's the experience. And never forget Windows users are potentially way more numerous than command line users. Catering for integration of Frescobaldi would be a real headache. And the documentation would need adapting as well. That's not to say anything about the value provided by such an approach, but it would likely make a lot more sense and a lot less work if the primary installed application was Frescobaldi and it offered to install LilyPond for you using one of our installers, rather than trying to do it the other way round. It would also make juggling with several versions a lot nicer since then Frescobaldi can manage paths, and knows where it put things. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Different beaming for triplets
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 19:05 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
Thank you David (and to the others that replied), I had a go at
getting my head round this before I asked, I find it a serious
challenge.
Yes.
It would be nice to have a graphical way of selecting what you want
visually and letting the computer do the hard work...
Your new 2.19 syntax certainly looks an improvement!
Note:
\beamExceptions { 8[ 8 8] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { 16[ 16 16] } }
rather than
#'((end . (((1 . 8) . (3)) ((1 . 24) . (3 3 3)
Well, you can also write
\beamExceptions { c8[ c c] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { c16[ c c] } }
which will look more familiar. But I am rather fond of the 2.19 way of
being able to enter rhythms without the distraction of pitches.
Ha! I had just been mulling this over when you emailed. It looks like we
could offer a Denemo command to extract beam exceptions from the current
selection just by copying its LilyPond representation into a
\beamExceptions parameter. I was just trying to track down
\beamExceptions in the unstable documentation but that seems only to go
as far as 2.17 and you mentioned 2.19. I guess the documentation, such
as it is, is still in the devel-discussions (naturally). Well, all in
good time.
Richard
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Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
2013/12/4 Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net: For me, I'd say that we should not install Frescobaldi as a pre-requisite of running Lily on Windows. I'm a heavy Windows user, and would not want another program installed by default. But you _already_ have another program installed by default: the lilypad editor. What I suggest is to replace this by a proper windows mini-shell with the essential buttons clearly visible. Open Document. Edit Document. Compile Document. All with Auto PDF view, a selectable external viewer in the Edit-Preferences menu. And (very important!) message output console. Not a paragraph in the docs explaining you have to find a log and read it. This is impossible to be popular. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
2013/12/4 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: The last time this discussion came up, Frescobaldi did not work on MacOSX. And it comes with its own dependencies. And installers. Fresco is now in Macports (whatever that means) and I think that means it is now very easy to install there. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 04.12.2013 19:44, schrieb David Kastrup: Catering for integration of Frescobaldi would be a real headache. And the documentation would need adapting as well. That's not to say anything about the value provided by such an approach, but it would likely make a lot more sense and a lot less work if the primary installed application was Frescobaldi and it offered to install LilyPond for you using one of our installers, rather than trying to do it the other way round. It would also make juggling with several versions a lot nicer since then Frescobaldi can manage paths, and knows where it put things. I don't know if that's something which could get a sufficient majority because it somehow would make Frescobaldi look like an official editor ;-) Bit I'm quite sure it would be trivial to include such a functionality in Fresobaldi. It would be simple to add a menu item that looks for updates, fetches and installs LilyPond, and finally adds it to the list of configured LilyPond instances. Such a function could easily be added to the installation process of Frescobaldi. Well, maybe a good idea to add that anyway. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
altering stem length of tuplets
Hi all, I'm trying to figure out how to alter the stem length of tuplets. I've tried \override Stem #'length = #1 for example. It did not work. The piece contains 3 voices, and it is the stem length of second voice I'm trying to change. The explanation on 'Altering the length of beamed stems' in the snippets did not seem to work either, : e.g.: \override Stem.details.beamed-lengths = #'(2) There is very little space between the middle and lowest voice. Using the last method, I get some effect, but random, when I increase the number the stems can get shorter, or longer, as if lilypond tries to override the override to avoid collisions. Is there a specific method for tuplets to change the stem length? So far I haven't found it. Using lilypond 2.17.95 grtz, Bart http://www.bartart3d.be/ On facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/BartArt3D/169488999795102 On Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/Bart_Issimo On Identi.ca http://identi.ca/bartart3d On Google+ https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116379400376517483499/ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: altering stem length of tuplets
If you don't mind setting explicit beam positions, you probably could go with: \override Beam #'positions = #'(-2 . -2) % adjust the numbers Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
Am 04.12.2013 17:15, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt: Am 04.12.2013 17:01, schrieb Urs Liska: My \annotate function should also store the position in the score (to print that out and to sort by it). So when I use the function in the input file it should store location elements and current measure and measure position in several variables. so yout need some kind of music function, that inserts an info to the music objects, which will be caught by an engraver, or you use applyContext. Then you need some kind of singleton, which holds the annotations. Then you can add them anywhere and get the list afterwards. Later more on that ... Yes, that's for later. Now I first need to collect information on the current moment. And I _do_ have read the whole section of lalily's edition.scm. But it's _way_ too complex, in particular because it references so much other code from outside the file. IISC it isn't exactly what I need so I'm afraid I have to build up my stuff from ground up. Also in order to have understood what it does. Best Urs PS: I'll surely come back on this current issue because I doubt I have fully grasped it yet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: altering stem length of tuplets
Noeck, thank you, that did the trick :-) . Adding to snippets in frescobaldi :-D grtz, Bart http://www.bartart3d.be/ On facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/BartArt3D/169488999795102 On Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/Bart_Issimo On Identi.ca http://identi.ca/bartart3d On Google+ https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116379400376517483499/ 2013/12/4 Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de If you don't mind setting explicit beam positions, you probably could go with: \override Beam #'positions = #'(-2 . -2) % adjust the numbers Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
This editor in Windows is deterrent. When I started, it took several weeks after I gave LP a second try. The first thing I then did, was changing the default-opening-program to the standard windows notepad editor, because the fonts an the look of this LP editor window was so ugly. An I am glad that I came back to LP in the end. IMHO users should always be pointed to Frescobaldi and install it. Could Lilypond be included in the Frescobaldi download? For an average user, Lilypond behaves quite strange: - Doubleclick does not open a window - Drag and drop for compiling (what is compiling anyway?) - Editor window is not looking nice - black window opens shortly (users did already complain about the viruses in LP because they interpreted the command line window as such) What could be expected of a windows program: - installing one program that can be executed right a way - main window opens from desktop or system menu short cut - what is needed happens in this window In that sense Frescobaldi is the program and it just uses LP in the back. Should we then promote Frescobaldi as music engraving program instead of LP? It would be strange as the engraving is done by LP, but from the user’s perspective Frescobaldi is the tool he works with. These names and startup issues can be quite confusing for new users. Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 04.12.2013 20:56, schrieb Noeck: IMHO users should always be pointed to Frescobaldi and install it. Could Lilypond be included in the Frescobaldi download? As said I wouldn't want to promote that too much because I'm biased. But if there was an agreement on this it would be quite simple to arrange. Frescobaldi should _not_ include LilyPond in its download because - many people already have LilyPond - which version should be included? - would blow up download size Instead I suggest that after finishing the installation Frescobaldi's installer looks for an existing LilyPond installation, and if it doesn't find one it suggests to download, install and configure it. By default this should take the latest stable version, but could also offer to look for the latest development version. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Get context in Scheme function (determining current moment)
On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:45 PM, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Am 04.12.2013 17:15, schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt: Am 04.12.2013 17:01, schrieb Urs Liska: My \annotate function should also store the position in the score (to print that out and to sort by it). So when I use the function in the input file it should store location elements and current measure and measure position in several variables. so yout need some kind of music function, that inserts an info to the music objects, which will be caught by an engraver, or you use applyContext. Then you need some kind of singleton, which holds the annotations. Then you can add them anywhere and get the list afterwards. Later more on that ... Yes, that's for later. Now I first need to collect information on the current moment. And I _do_ have read the whole section of lalily's edition.scm. But it's _way_ too complex, in particular because it references so much other code from outside the file. IISC it isn't exactly what I need so I'm afraid I have to build up my stuff from ground up. Also in order to have understood what it does. Best Urs From practice, my advice is to create a music function that does all this bookkeeping for you by iterating through your stream, minding time signatures, counting durations and adding events when appropriate. All this before it hits the engravers. I wrote a function that that did this back when I removed all the Es from the Overture to Fidelio (http://bit.ly/1gEXXJ7), but I lost the function when my hard drive crashed. It was a day of work, though, so it’s re-doable and probably very useful for lots of people. Cheers, MS ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience (was: useability, promoting, etc)
On 05/12/13 05:02, Phil Holmes wrote: I am willing to look at improving the Windows experience, although this would need to wait until my degree finishes next Summer. However, there's one thing I don't know: what should happen when you double-click a .ly file in Explorer: open an editor or compile the file? And if the former, how should the file be compiled? Well, if it were a .c or .cpp file, I would expect it to open in an editor. On both my Linux and Windows machines, a double-click on an ly file opens it in Frescobaldi. Nick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/4 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: The last time this discussion came up, Frescobaldi did not work on MacOSX. And it comes with its own dependencies. And installers. Fresco is now in Macports (whatever that means) and I think that means it is now very easy to install there. It is very easy to install there is not the same as it is very easy to integrate into LilyPond's installer. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Different beaming for triplets
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 19:05 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
Thank you David (and to the others that replied), I had a go at
getting my head round this before I asked, I find it a serious
challenge.
Yes.
It would be nice to have a graphical way of selecting what you want
visually and letting the computer do the hard work...
Your new 2.19 syntax certainly looks an improvement!
Note:
\beamExceptions { 8[ 8 8] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { 16[ 16 16] } }
rather than
#'((end . (((1 . 8) . (3)) ((1 . 24) . (3 3 3)
Well, you can also write
\beamExceptions { c8[ c c] | \repeat unfold 3 \tuplet 3/2 { c16[ c c] } }
which will look more familiar. But I am rather fond of the 2.19 way of
being able to enter rhythms without the distraction of pitches.
Ha! I had just been mulling this over when you emailed. It looks like we
could offer a Denemo command to extract beam exceptions from the current
selection just by copying its LilyPond representation into a
\beamExceptions parameter.
If the music has been written for that. If you just pick some random
example measures, it is likely that the exceptions will end up being
incomplete.
I was just trying to track down \beamExceptions in the unstable
documentation but that seems only to go as far as 2.17 and you
mentioned 2.19. I guess the documentation, such as it is, is still in
the devel-discussions (naturally).
No, it is checked into master. But it won't appear on the web site
before 2.19.0 is released.
The info looks something like
Beaming based on ‘beamExceptions’
.
Special autobeaming rules (other than ending a beam on a beat) are
defined in the ‘beamExceptions’ property.
The value for ‘beamExceptions’, a somewhat complex Scheme data
structure, is easiest generated with the ‘\beamExceptions’ function.
This function is given one or more manually beamed measure-length
rhythmic patterns (measures have to be separated by a bar check ‘|’
since the function has no other way to discern the measure length).
Here is a simple example:
\time 3/16
\set Timing.beatStructure = #'(2 1)
\set Timing.beamExceptions =
\beamExceptions { 32[ 32] 32[ 32] 32[ 32] }
c16 c c |
\repeat unfold 6 { c32 } |
Note: A ‘beamExceptions’ value must be _complete_ exceptions
list. That is, every exception that should be applied must be
included in the setting. It is not possible to add, remove,
or change only one of the exceptions. While this may seem
cumbersome, it means that the current beaming settings need
not be known in order to specify a new beaming pattern.
When the time signature is changed, default values of
‘Timing.baseMoment’, ‘Timing.beatStructure’, and ‘Timing.beamExceptions’
are set. Setting the time signature will reset the automatic beaming
settings for the ‘Timing’ context to the default behavior.
\time 6/8
\repeat unfold 6 { a8 }
% group (4 + 2)
\set Timing.beatStructure = #'(4 2)
\repeat unfold 6 { a8 }
% go back to default behavior
\time 6/8
\repeat unfold 6 { a8 }
The default automatic beaming settings for a time signature are
determined in ‘scm/time-signature-settings.scm’. Changing the default
automatic beaming settings for a time signature is described in *note
Time signature::.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Am 04.12.2013 19:44, schrieb David Kastrup: Catering for integration of Frescobaldi would be a real headache. And the documentation would need adapting as well. That's not to say anything about the value provided by such an approach, but it would likely make a lot more sense and a lot less work if the primary installed application was Frescobaldi and it offered to install LilyPond for you using one of our installers, rather than trying to do it the other way round. It would also make juggling with several versions a lot nicer since then Frescobaldi can manage paths, and knows where it put things. I don't know if that's something which could get a sufficient majority because it somehow would make Frescobaldi look like an official editor ;-) Not really. We'd just recommend downloading and installing Frescobaldi on certain platforms for getting a customary user experience rather than a command line application. Bit I'm quite sure it would be trivial to include such a functionality in Fresobaldi. For a very variable value of trivial. But I think it would make sense to do this distribution of labor/development for platforms where it would work. It would be simple to add a menu item that looks for updates, fetches and installs LilyPond, and finally adds it to the list of configured LilyPond instances. Such a function could easily be added to the installation process of Frescobaldi. Well, maybe a good idea to add that anyway. It seems like a more common use case to use Frescobaldi for managing multiple LilyPond's installed by LilyPond's installer than the other way round, namely managing multiple Frescobaldi instances. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 04.12.2013 20:24, schrieb David Kastrup:
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes:
Am 04.12.2013 19:44, schrieb David Kastrup:
Catering for integration of Frescobaldi would be a real headache. And
the documentation would need adapting as well. That's not to say
anything about the value provided by such an approach, but it would
likely make a lot more sense and a lot less work if the primary
installed application was Frescobaldi and it offered to install LilyPond
for you using one of our installers, rather than trying to do it the
other way round.
It would also make juggling with several versions a lot nicer since then
Frescobaldi can manage paths, and knows where it put things.
I don't know if that's something which could get a sufficient majority
because it somehow would make Frescobaldi look like an official editor
;-)
Not really. We'd just recommend downloading and installing Frescobaldi
on certain platforms for getting a customary user experience rather than
a command line application.
OK. Then I suggest we will come back if we have managed to integrate
LilyPond installation in Frescobaldi (Actually Wilbert says it was in
Frescobaldi 1, although Linux only).
I think it's a good idea to do it in Frescobaldi anyway, then we/you can
still consider how to communicate it to the end-user.
Bit I'm quite sure it would be trivial to include such a functionality
in Fresobaldi.
For a very variable value of trivial. But I think it would make sense
to do this distribution of labor/development for platforms where it
would work.
Of course.
It would be simple to add a menu item that looks for updates, fetches
and installs LilyPond, and finally adds it to the list of configured
LilyPond instances.
Such a function could easily be added to the installation process of
Frescobaldi.
Well, maybe a good idea to add that anyway.
It seems like a more common use case to use Frescobaldi for managing
multiple LilyPond's installed by LilyPond's installer than the other way
round, namely managing multiple Frescobaldi instances.
{
\updateFrescobaldi #'stable-only
}
LOL
But actually I've implemented a menu in Frescobaldi that allows you to
switch versions based on Git branches available. The next steps will be
to update through Git, then allow switching to versions on branches of
other remotes (i.e. contributors).
Of course everything can be done with a few Git commands. But I'm sure
it will boost the collaborative spirit if there's a menu structure
telling me which branches other contributors are working on.
Urs
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Re: LilyPond (and Denemo?)
Not having a problem here. I installed Denemo 1.0.4-1 on Arch and it works fine. What OS are you running? - Ryan McClure Luna Music Engraving www.lunamusicengraving.com -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-and-Denemo-tp155027p155057.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Denemo-feedback
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: At the moment this AI step is the simplest possible, it goes through the durations that you played assigning them to the nearest note lengths using only whole-note 1/256th note and dotted versions of them (no triplet values have been entered in the table of durations). I assume this is customizable to, e.g., whole-note...1/8th or something similar. But even if only 80% of the durations are correct, this would already be helpful (for me, in some situations). I'm not a piano player. I can, however, enter notes using a (MIDI) keyboard in a slow and rhythmless pace, and I can tap the correct rhythm on a single key. I'd love to combine these two inputs. -- Johan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Supporting my work on LilyPond financially
Hi, we are nearing the end of the year, and, uh, it looks like I could make use of some of the spirit of giving. As you can see from the accompanying report, the current number of people supporting my work on LilyPond financially is on the decline: while there are a few large donors, many of them actually have done so much for LilyPond in other ways that it is embarrassing I am dependent on their continued _large_ contributions. So taking some of the load off them will not just express your gratitude towards the work I do myself on LilyPond but also towards them. It would be fabulous if I could get along well with mostly small donations in the monthly €15-€25 range, but that requires quite a few more who are willing to pitch in. Think about it. You can ask me for my SEPA bank account number (SEPA order should be the cheapest variant within the Euro zone), this mail address is registered at Paypal, and you can use the account number 1Kw7HZMd8L52BCL9vEjSxdPG4p3phRvtQF for Bitcoin transfers. There is still a lot LilyPond is in need of doing, I am pretty positive that 2.18 will be out before Christmas, and I am responsible for a large part of the developments even though the majority of contributions and of organizational tasks and efforts and translation work and user help and so on is done by volunteers working in their spare time. But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we keep this up? Thanks for your help! -- David Kastrup David's post generated some interesting threads and discussion. But, it strayed from the original point. He needs more donors to continue his work for us in the LilyPond community. I just wanted to re-emphasize that original point and hope the discussion has convinced a few more of us to make a small, but regular donation. Thanks, Chris Crossen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Hi, a couple of thoughts: 2013/12/4 Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com: I find this path tortuous. People double-click the lilypond icon, and don't see this shell as many of them could expect. Instead, ugly things happen. Therefore, lilypond is ugly. I think this summarizes the start and the end of a newcomer's experience. AMEN. Francisco nailed it on the head. Such things may seem small, but they make all the difference, and the biggest companies (like Apple) know about this. First impression, elegance, simplicity, intuitiveness, etc. are very important. Currently LilyPond's first impression (via LilyPad) is that it's a second-rate program, looking as if it was written by a student in a garage during the last holidays. And it may seem that Lily is free because it's not good enough to be worth any money. Seriously, i think that's the impression we're currently making. While i'm sure that the people who created LilyPad had good intentions, i really believe that LilyPad doesn't make sense (please don't get offended by this). For advanced users it's dramatically underfeatured, while for newbies it's still not making things clear enough. And - at least the last time i checked - it lacks most text editing tools, like syntax highlighting. Only Windows notepad.exe has less features i think. David may be right that it'd be easier to integrate LilyPond into Frescobaldi's installer than the other way round. Or maybe there won't be an easy way to have an installer that actually installs everything - but maybe it would be enough if it downloaded other program setup files and ran them? Anyway, what about something like this: a higher-level installer that installs LilyPond and lets user choose what editing program he wants to use: LilyPond files can be edited using different programs. Pleasse choose what to install additionally: * Denemo (has a GUI but it cannot open lilypond files created with other programs) * Frescobaldi (gives you more control, but doesn't have a GUI) * I'm a computer wizard, and I'll use my own EMACS/vim/Notepad++ This way we avoid the problem of favoring one editor over the other. I believe that the most important thing is just to have a powerful editor installed with LilyPond so that people get the most of LilyPond right away. best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Symmetrical ties in TieColumn
Hi, David Your function for offsetting control-points of a TieColumn is very useful to me. Now it would be great if someone could improve it to make it work with ties over the line break. Best Karol Dnia 20-10-2013 o godz. 0:39 David Nalesnik napisał(a): Hi Karol, On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Karol Majewski karo...@wp.pl wrote: Hi Currently I'm making some experiments with ties. What I need is a function that makes all ties in TieColumn have the same length (see attachment). I tried to achieve this by changing some values from Tie.details, but couldn't find the right configuration. Then I tried to modify shapeTieColumn.ly (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2012-06/msg00285.html) but that's probably not the way it should be done. My question: how difficult would be to write such function? The problem here is that AFAIK you can't tell LilyPond: here are the attachment points I want for my ties; draw nice ones. . I've come up with a sketch which does something like what you want, but you have to play around with numbers to get a good result. Basically, it draws however many ties you need, but draws them with the same shape, lined up. You need to specify the shape of one of them by giving a list resembling control points. The y coordinates in this list are relative to 0. The x-coordinates represent the horizontal distance of the control points from the first NoteColumn associated with the TieColumn. I don't think that makes a lot of sense--and I'm a little too tired to do better--but I fiddling with the numbers should make it clear. Now the problems :) --Layout changes will mess up your hard work. --Won't work with broken ties as of yet. Anyway, it's something. --David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: Anyway, what about something like this: a higher-level installer that installs LilyPond and lets user choose what editing program he wants to use: LilyPond files can be edited using different programs. Pleasse choose what to install additionally: * Denemo (has a GUI but it cannot open lilypond files created with other programs) * Frescobaldi (gives you more control, but doesn't have a GUI) * I'm a computer wizard, and I'll use my own EMACS/vim/Notepad++ This way we avoid the problem of favoring one editor over the other. Are you going to implement this for all GUB targets? MacOSX, MacOS PowerPC, Windows, FreeBSD, and so on? Write a higher-level installer for all of these that will know how to get at all the editors for all of these? I believe that the most important thing is just to have a powerful editor installed with LilyPond so that people get the most of LilyPond right away. It would even better to have a friendly human tutor installed automatically. We just need to get her into the installer, same problem. For better or worse, I think that the interactive task of managing LilyPond versions is better placed with the editors which are supposed to interact with the user than the other way round. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
From: Janek Warchol janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:55 PM Hi, a couple of thoughts: 2013/12/4 Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com: I find this path tortuous. People double-click the lilypond icon, and don't see this shell as many of them could expect. Instead, ugly things happen. Therefore, lilypond is ugly. I think this summarizes the start and the end of a newcomer's experience. AMEN. Francisco nailed it on the head. Such things may seem small, but they make all the difference, and the biggest companies (like Apple) know about this. First impression, elegance, simplicity, intuitiveness, etc. are very important. AMEN+1 I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
2013/12/5 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net: I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. are you visiting http://lilypond.org/ or http://lilypond.org/web/ ? Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
- Original Message - From: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com To: Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net Cc: LilyPond Users lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 12:19 AM Subject: Re: A thought on Windows Experience 2013/12/5 Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net: I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. are you visiting http://lilypond.org/ or http://lilypond.org/web/ ? Janek http://lilypond.org/ Of course it's a matter of taste, but that's how I see it - sorry:( Phil. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond (and Denemo?)
Ryan McClure wrote Not having a problem here. I installed Denemo 1.0.4-1 on Arch and it works fine. What OS are you running? Hi Ryan. I wasn't necessarily reporting any problem, just a question or concern about how Denemo loads a ton of different mini-windows on startup. Were you able to check out the video I included? It shows what I was trying to describe. Ben - composer | sound designer LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) -- http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-and-Denemo-tp155027p155071.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net wrote: From: Janek Warchol janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:55 PM Hi, a couple of thoughts: 2013/12/4 Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com: I find this path tortuous. People double-click the lilypond icon, and don't see this shell as many of them could expect. Instead, ugly things happen. Therefore, lilypond is ugly. I think this summarizes the start and the end of a newcomer's experience. AMEN. Francisco nailed it on the head. Such things may seem small, but they make all the difference, and the biggest companies (like Apple) know about this. First impression, elegance, simplicity, intuitiveness, etc. are very important. Apple's applications are written by a legion of well paid professionals who do nothing but live up to the Apple aesthetic. Lilypond is written by a bunch of volunteers in their spare times, none of whom (as far as I know) is an GUI interface expert. Powerful software and simple software are usually mutually exclusive. Compare Word, Pages and LaTeX, for example. Pages is more elegant but can do a small fraction of what Word can do. Word can't do a lot of things that LaTeX can. AMEN+1 I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. All things considered, I'd rather focus Lilypond's meager resources to software that creates beautifully engraved sheet music. The printed output of Lilypond is vastly superior (and more readable by musicians) than MuseScore, Finale or Sibelius. I'm always amazed at how crappy Finale output looks, in particular. If you think that Lilypond's web page needs a facelift, then volunteer to roll up your sleeves and help change it by writing text blocks, creating better HTML, creating better graphics, etc. There is no well-funded corporation behind Lilypond, just a bunch of dedicated and amazingly talented volunteer programmers. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond (and Denemo?)
I saw your video and kind of chuckled at how many windows popped up... not to make light of how many come up :) I only have two, the main window and a PDF viewer. - Ryan McClure Luna Music Engraving www.lunamusicengraving.com -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/LilyPond-and-Denemo-tp155027p155073.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net wrote: I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. All things considered, I'd rather focus Lilypond's meager resources to software that creates beautifully engraved sheet music. The printed output of Lilypond is vastly superior (and more readable by musicians) than MuseScore, Finale or Sibelius. I'm always amazed at how crappy Finale output looks, in particular. If you think that Lilypond's web page needs a facelift, then volunteer to roll up your sleeves and help change it by writing text blocks, creating better HTML, creating better graphics, etc. There is no well-funded corporation behind Lilypond, just a bunch of dedicated and amazingly talented volunteer programmers. Where do I sign up and what do I need to know about the way the current site works? I cannot write a single line of C++, my Scheme skills are meager at best (limited mostly to taking existing code and tweaking parameters), and I've only looked into MetaFont enough to send a patch to Janek to review to refine the shape note parameters to deal with unsightly MI and SO noteheads. (speaking of which, Janek... :) ). But I can do web development. Carl P. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 2013-12-05 um 01:12 schrieb David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/4 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: The last time this discussion came up, Frescobaldi did not work on MacOSX. And it comes with its own dependencies. And installers. Fresco is now in Macports (whatever that means) and I think that means it is now very easy to install there. It is very easy to install there is not the same as it is very easy to integrate into LilyPond's installer. Right, and „very easy to install“ is not true for the average Mac user - MacPorts is kind of a Linux parallel installation on your mac, controlled by command line. And Frescobaldi has so much dependencies, it pulls in nearly a complete Linux with some hours of compile time. I’m glad it works, but it doesn’t avoid the command line problem for clicky users. Greetlings, Hraban --- fiëé visuëlle Henning Hraban Ramm http://www.fiee.net http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/ https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Phil Burfitt phil.burf...@talktalk.net wrote: I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. If you think that Lilypond's web page needs a facelift, then volunteer to roll up your sleeves and help change it by writing text blocks, creating better HTML, creating better graphics, etc. There is no well-funded corporation behind Lilypond, just a bunch of dedicated and amazingly talented volunteer programmers. Where do I sign up and what do I need to know about the way the current site works? I cannot write a single line of C++, my Scheme skills are meager at best (limited mostly to taking existing code and tweaking parameters), and I've only looked into MetaFont enough to send a patch to Janek to review to refine the shape note parameters to deal with unsightly MI and SO noteheads. (speaking of which, Janek... :) ). But I can do web development. One thing you have to realize that much of the content is created programmatically with a uniform look and feel. So much is contained in style sheets, and most of the rest is basically hand-written fragments combined by procedures. Which, in comparison to the popular HTML authoring tools generating oodles of garbage that fortunately nobody peruses closely, exactly entails the workflows that would have been used for something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. So if you are versed with modern tools for web development, you may easily be frustrated at just how little possibility there is for employing them as you are used to do. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Schikkers List
Federico Bruni writes: I'm not a coder, so nothing. I was just thinking that I may test it better if I could run it on my computer. Okay...thanks for the offer! I'll think about it. Because development is so slow the code is only available to the actual developers for now. I see that the demo doesn't work always: for example, now I refreshed the page and the canvas is empty (no staff). Oh, that's bad. It's up again... Sure, but the thing is: why showing the text input if you cannot modify it? Why enable editing the text input as long as it's next to useless because it's slow and buggy? Your request is noted, though. It's a nice idea if the purpose of the application is teaching lilypond syntax by interacting with a GUI. That's one of the main purposes, to help people make jump the hurdle of text input. I predict that some people who would never consider using text input, may still start to use it once they experience that all their clumsy mousings can be described so short and simple in text. Actually, it's a great idea: I would add a link in the website introduction once you feel that it's stable enough. Thanks. I was thinking of active panes in the tutorial. What if you could edit all these snippets: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/learning/simple-notation OTOH if you want to create a GUI application, I'd remove the text input (at least, until you implement the two-way edit). There are many GUI applications that have this feature: only editable by mouse already. I don't think that brings anything new and interesting to this world. I have a feature request that it may make this app special: note entry using a tablature instead of a staff. You choose the tuning and then enter numbers on each string, then the number should be turned into the right pitch. I guess this is not easy to implement. But it may attract users of Tuxguitar, Guitarpro and similar. I'm not a guitar player/tab staff reader, so I don't really get the idea of what this should look like. How/why would you enter numbers rather than click on the Tab staff? Can we do away with choosing the tuning, isn't there a common tuning for guitar that 90% of guitars use? If someone would want to have a go with implementing this, I'd be glad to talk with them. How can I make an horizontal selection? Push down mouse-1, drag to the left or right. I think that yesterday somehow I managed to select more than a note, using Alt or Ctrl; but then slur didn't work. Today the demo is not working, so I'm stuck... Did I say that I'd like to install it on my PC? :-) :-) You can always ask, I'll think about it. Jan -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
I also think lilypond's website is terrible. It looks like something out of the eighties knocked up on a dos machine. By comparison, take a look at the home pages of musescore, finale and sibelius. Actually, I don't see a very big difference between lilypond's and musescore's site. But improvements are always possible, of course. Do you want to work on that? We don't have a specialist who really likes to dive into the nifty HTML and Java issues while creating the contents via the texinfo format so that the PDF stays in sync with the HTML and info output. Werner ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Schikkers List
Noeck writes: how do you generate the visual output? Using LilyPond. Does this scale to larger scores? It depends. Larger score support will need a lot of work. The first thing is to get this project really started. Is there a possibility to compile line by line to get smaller changes quicker? Yes, that was the main reason for me to create the prototypes of Schikkers List that were released three years ago. Greetings, Jan -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Schikkers List
2013/12/5 Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org Federico Bruni writes: I'm not a coder, so nothing. I was just thinking that I may test it better if I could run it on my computer. Okay...thanks for the offer! I'll think about it. Because development is so slow the code is only available to the actual developers for now. ok, I supposed that was the reason It's a nice idea if the purpose of the application is teaching lilypond syntax by interacting with a GUI. That's one of the main purposes, to help people make jump the hurdle of text input. I predict that some people who would never consider using text input, may still start to use it once they experience that all their clumsy mousings can be described so short and simple in text. Actually, it's a great idea: I would add a link in the website introduction once you feel that it's stable enough. Thanks. I was thinking of active panes in the tutorial. What if you could edit all these snippets: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/learning/simple-notation Edit locally in your browser, right? Using the software on the server.. Cool I have a feature request that it may make this app special: note entry using a tablature instead of a staff. You choose the tuning and then enter numbers on each string, then the number should be turned into the right pitch. I guess this is not easy to implement. But it may attract users of Tuxguitar, Guitarpro and similar. I'm not a guitar player/tab staff reader, so I don't really get the idea of what this should look like. How/why would you enter numbers rather than click on the Tab staff? When you click on the TabStaff you can only select the string, there's no pitch. When you enter the fret number, the program can find the right pitch combining string + fret number (and taking the tuning into account). Can we do away with choosing the tuning, isn't there a common tuning for guitar that 90% of guitars use? If someone would want to have a go with implementing this, I'd be glad to talk with them. Sure, you should let the default guitar tuning but also offer the option to change the tuning. If the tuning changes, obviously string + fret number combination will refer to a different pitch. All the guitar players I know work with software which uses this kind of input. MuseScore already have this feature in the current development version (2.x), but I did just a quick test. How can I make an horizontal selection? Push down mouse-1, drag to the left or right. I managed to get it one after several tries. Now I can't make it working anymore. There's something buggy? Or maybe I lost the ability to use the mouse since I use lilypond :-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
