Re: Lilypond Website Work
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.comwrote: I have something in development for #2 on Federico's list. I've parsed through enough of the texi2html script that I was able to insert CSS classes into the body tag that will allow me to color code each manual. One thing that is very strange that I've noticed in working on this is that if I modify Documentation/lilypond-texi2html.init (which impacts virtually every part of the website) and build the documentation, nothing happens, but if I change one of the stylesheets (which is a superficial thing that does not, to my knowledge, impact the building of any other file), the entire documentation gets rebuilt. This is backwards. When I've been working on the lilypond-texi2html.init file, I've been having to go in and touch one of the manual pages (usually changes.tely, since it's probably the smallest and easiest to build) to get it to recompile that manual so I can see what my changes did. If you feel comfortable figuring out what change would be required to the makefiles or makefile inclusion files, you can propose a patch after checking it does what you think it does. Other than that, report a bug. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work
2013/12/9 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: 2013/12/6 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: A complete color _scheme_ might be distracting, but it may make sense to have a title or side bar or other obvious always on-screen element color-coded. Okay, so I have a patch set ready to go with this. The only differences are that the Usage book is yellow, the Internals book is purple, and I made the Contributor's Guide black. Where should I submit the patches for review? I've tried reading the Contributor's Guide and I come up with about 3 or 4 different methods, and this sort of work is kind of in a no-man's land anyway. Please upload it using git cl tool, as described in http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/contributor/commits-and-patches#uploading-a-patch-for-review After doing so, there should be a new issue in the tracker (http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/list) about your patch, and inside that issue there should be a link to http://codereview.appspot.com/something If you have problems, let us know. thanks! Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 09.12.2013 07:28, schrieb Carl Peterson: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:12 AM, James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com mailto:jamshar...@gmail.com wrote: Carl's two-column approach is pretty much what I had in mind. Although, he suggests this would be only a slight improvement. I think it could be more than that. Suppose we introduce the downloads with a couple of paragraphs across the top: ~~ IMPORTANT: A complete working environment for LilyPond consists of two components: LilyPond itself, and a music editor. If you have installed only one of these, then you're not experiencing LilyPond's full power. NEW USERS: After installing LilyPond for your operating system, review the editors in the right-hand column and install one of them. Use the editor as your primary LilyPond interface. ~~ I didn't intend my statement to be intended as my thinking it is only a slight improvement. I meant primarily that regardless of however slight it *might* be, it is an improvement, nonetheless. The page flow I usually see is something like: Front page -- Download page. We have most of that. I think we need to find some way to make the front-ends like Frescobaldi and Denemo clearly visible on the downloads page. Go ahead and put in the disclaimer that these aren't maintained by the LP project itself (just to try to stave off confusion). I see the following needs: a) Do what you (and some others) say above: Edit the text of the Download page to make explicit that you _do_ need _any_ editing environment and that this is separate from the LilyPond download. b) Rename Easier Editing to Editing After all, that's what we're talking about here. While technically you could argue Editing can be done with any text editor and Easier Editing is done with dedicated tools this isn't relevant for someone looking for initial information. If I were looking at the website the first time I'd probably think: Easier Editing? OK, let's give the default tools a try first. If I decide to stick with that program I can always go back and look for easier Editing. c) Add an introductory text at the top of the Editing page. d) (_slightly_ OT, but important anyway: improve the structure on the Introduction and Features page from the perspective of that imaginary new user. The question that remains in my mind is whether it is more beneficial to redirect to the project site (to get specific install instructions) or to hotlink the install binaries. It's been awhile since I've installed an LP front-end to remember whether there are particular installation things that have to happen outside of download and run (I know there is for Frescobaldi for Mac, as has been discussed numerous times on this list). Perhaps coordinate with the people on the respective projects to arrange for a download link that always provides the latest stable version? I suggest to link to the project page in any case. If it's possible to link to a latest stable binary then do this additionally. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Heard on Twitter
In a reply the MuseScore Twitter account stated that the LilyPond export function will be removed in the next version: @shoorick77 Lilypond export is removed for next version in favour of consolidating efforts on MusicXML i/o http://twitter.com/musescore/status/409830922658529280 Best Peter ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com writes: Carl's two-column approach is pretty much what I had in mind. Although, he suggests this would be only a slight improvement. I think it could be more than that. Suppose we introduce the downloads with a couple of paragraphs across the top: ~~ IMPORTANT: A complete working environment for LilyPond consists of two components: LilyPond itself, and a music editor. If you have installed only one of these, then you're not experiencing LilyPond's full power. That's nonsensical. You'll be experiencing LilyPond's full power if and only if you have LilyPond itself installed. NEW USERS: After installing LilyPond for your operating system, review the editors in the right-hand column and install one of them. Use the editor as your primary LilyPond interface. Again: I think the graphical environments should cater for downloading/installing LilyPond itself, and at least Denemo currently seems to do this, while Frescobaldi is quite open to that. As long as its developers are actively participating on this list and interested in making things easier for the users, I'd lean towards something like: LilyPond is a _command_ _line_ application translating files written in LilyPond's music description language [see text input] into complete scores. It does _not_ constitute a work environment. What you will be working with for entering your scores is either a text editor of your choice, or a tool specialized for creating LilyPond files. Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. While working with it, you will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all, and the LilyPond documentation will be mostly irrelevant. Since it has a number of input methods as well as Midi input, it may also be used as an input tool for entering the bulk of your music material first and exporting it to native LilyPond format for further editing. If you employ it in this manner, you will still need an editor suitable for working directly with the LilyPond language. Denemo already includes a version of LilyPond and can be downloaded here [Download from external link]. Frescobaldi: this is a specialized editor with lots of support for creating and maintaining scores in the LilyPond language itself. As opposed to Denemo, you'll be responsible for writing every bit, and your main reference will be the LilyPond documentation which is also accessible from within Frescobaldi. Frescobaldi can download and install any version of LilyPond itself via the .../... menu and is available here [Download from external link]. LilyPond: command line driven compiler of the LilyPond language. If you want to install just LilyPond itself and will be working with an editor of your choice, you can download it from here [Download] Something like that. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 00:10 +0100, Federico Bruni wrote: 2013/12/5 Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com The Denemo windows and mac binaries have LilyPond built in. Not sure about the GNU/Linux one. I would bet that it's not built in. I just checked, and the GNU/Linux one does in fact have lilypond built in. (It is not surprising - once you have got GUB working you are not going to start unpicking the installer to give the user more to do) In debian lilypond is recommended, it's not a dependency of denemo: $ apt-cache depends denemo | grep lilypond Recommends: lilypond This is nothing to do with these Denemo binaries (or the LilyPond ones either), these binaries are just user programs - another user cannot even execute them without the original installer changing the permissions. They don't affect your system stability and so on for that reason - the cost is disk space, you have copies under your home directory of many libraries and executables that you have already installed in the system. Indeed if you use the LilyPond installer as well (and point Denemo to use that) you will have e.g. three versions of ghostscript, one in /usr/bin one in ~/lilypond/usr/bin and one in ~/denemo/usr/bin Richard BUT Note that apt-get now installs recommended packages as default and is the preferred program for package management from console to perform system installation and major system upgrades for its robustness. Source: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Monday, December 9, 2013 4:52:08 PM HKT, David Kastrup wrote: James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com writes: Carl's two-column approach is pretty much what I had in mind. Although, he suggests this would be only a slight improvement. I think it could be more than that. Suppose we introduce the downloads with a couple of paragraphs across the top: ~~ IMPORTANT: A complete working environment for LilyPond consists of two components: LilyPond itself, and a music editor. If you have installed only one of these, then you're not experiencing LilyPond's full power. That's nonsensical. You'll be experiencing LilyPond's full power if and only if you have LilyPond itself installed. tongue in cheek That's splitting hairs, isn't it? If you install only an editor, you'll get 0% of LilyPond's power. This is, indeed, less than full power. My wording underestimates the severity of failing to install LilyPond, but one would hope (of all possible details to omit) that this might go without saying. /tongue in cheek LilyPond is a _command_ _line_ application translating files written in LilyPond's music description language [see text input] into complete scores. It does _not_ constitute a work environment. What you will be working with for entering your scores is either a text editor of your choice, or a tool specialized for creating LilyPond files. Sure, that sounds good. Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. I think this is too much to ask people to read on the download page. The download page should be as simple as possible and direct people toward the resources they need. Much more than that, and you get into TL;DR territory. Linking directly from the proposed editors section of the download page to the Easier editing page would be more appropriate, I think. What we want users to get is the idea that they will need *some* editor, which the download page can do in a compact way. Providing a brain-dead easy can't miss it link to profiles of the various editors, and links directly to the Denemo and Frescobaldi homepages, would be enough. hjh ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Am 09.12.2013 10:15, schrieb James Harkins: Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. I think this is too much to ask people to read on the download page. The download page should be as simple as possible and direct people toward the resources they need. Much more than that, and you get into TL;DR territory. Linking directly from the proposed editors section of the download page to the Easier editing page would be more appropriate, I think. What we want users to get is the idea that they will need *some* editor, which the download page can do in a compact way. Providing a brain-dead easy can't miss it link to profiles of the various editors, and links directly to the Denemo and Frescobaldi homepages, would be enough. I will use most of David's suggestion quite literally but will see how to distribute it on the different pages. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 09:52 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com writes: Carl's two-column approach is pretty much what I had in mind. Although, he suggests this would be only a slight improvement. I think it could be more than that. Suppose we introduce the downloads with a couple of paragraphs across the top: ~~ IMPORTANT: A complete working environment for LilyPond consists of two components: LilyPond itself, and a music editor. If you have installed only one of these, then you're not experiencing LilyPond's full power. That's nonsensical. You'll be experiencing LilyPond's full power if and only if you have LilyPond itself installed. NEW USERS: After installing LilyPond for your operating system, review the editors in the right-hand column and install one of them. Use the editor as your primary LilyPond interface. Again: I think the graphical environments should cater for downloading/installing LilyPond itself, and at least Denemo currently seems to do this, while Frescobaldi is quite open to that. As long as its developers are actively participating on this list and interested in making things easier for the users, I'd lean towards something like: LilyPond is a _command_ _line_ application translating files written in LilyPond's music description language [see text input] into complete scores. It does _not_ constitute a work environment. What you will be working with for entering your scores is either a text editor of your choice, or a tool specialized for creating LilyPond files. Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. While working with it, you will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all, This is incorrect. If you double click on a note, repeat bar ... you are told the LilyPond syntax that this element has created. If you switch to the LilyPond view of the Denemo score you see the LilyPond syntax and can edit it. There are some limitations still in that editing (e.g. changing a note to a different note is still not possible, and there is no syntax highlighting, but you can re-write entirely the score layout starting from the default). and the LilyPond documentation will be mostly irrelevant. I think this is not so either: it is slightly daft that you need to run the insert LilyPond command in the main Denemo display rather than in the LilyPond view in order to start inserting text, but the LilyPond syntax is entirely relevant if you want to do things that Denemo does not have built in. Ok, so it is mostly irrelevant if you just want to do things that Denemo has built in, but I am sure you have written all that other LilyPond syntax for very good reasons :) Richard Since it has a number of input methods as well as Midi input, it may also be used as an input tool for entering the bulk of your music material first and exporting it to native LilyPond format for further editing. If you employ it in this manner, you will still need an editor suitable for working directly with the LilyPond language. Denemo already includes a version of LilyPond and can be downloaded here [Download from external link]. Frescobaldi: this is a specialized editor with lots of support for creating and maintaining scores in the LilyPond language itself. As opposed to Denemo, you'll be responsible for writing every bit, and your main reference will be the LilyPond documentation which is also accessible from within Frescobaldi. Frescobaldi can download and install any version of LilyPond itself via the .../... menu and is available here [Download from external link]. LilyPond: command line driven compiler of the LilyPond language. If you want to install just LilyPond itself and will be working with an editor of your choice, you can download it from here [Download] Something like that. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond 2.17.97 released!
Not Found The requested URL /lilypond/binaries/linux-64/lilypond-2.17.97-1.linux-64.sh was not found on this server. Original-Nachricht We are excited to announce the release of LilyPond 2.17.97 as a potential final beta release for the upcoming stable release 2.18. The developers believe this to be feature-complete, the documentation to be accurate, and no important issues to be overlooked. For upgrading the syntax of your input files to the latest version, see Updating files with convert-ly. Please test this release and report back any problems, see Bug reports. -- Phil Holmes ___ Info-lilypond mailing list info-lilyp...@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-lilypond ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond 2.17.97 released!
couldn't find the windows version! Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Re-LilyPond-2-17-97-released-tp155413p155414.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 09:52 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. While working with it, you will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all, This is incorrect. If you double click on a note, repeat bar ... you are told the LilyPond syntax that this element has created. If you switch to the LilyPond view of the Denemo score you see the LilyPond syntax and can edit it. There are some limitations still in that editing (e.g. changing a note to a different note is still not possible, and there is no syntax highlighting, but you can re-write entirely the score layout starting from the default). Ok ok, I guess I'll get the Midi-equipped accordion from the storage, see whether any contacts are stuck, install a current version of Denemo and get myself informed. and the LilyPond documentation will be mostly irrelevant. I think this is not so either: it is slightly daft that you need to run the insert LilyPond command in the main Denemo display rather than in the LilyPond view in order to start inserting text, but the LilyPond syntax is entirely relevant if you want to do things that Denemo does not have built in. Ok, so it is mostly irrelevant if you just want to do things that Denemo has built in, but I am sure you have written all that other LilyPond syntax for very good reasons :) How does Denemo's relation to LilyPond compare to LyX's with LaTeX? Anybody here who knows both? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes: Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 09:52 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. While working with it, you will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all, This is incorrect. If you double click on a note, repeat bar ... you are told the LilyPond syntax that this element has created. If you switch to the LilyPond view of the Denemo score you see the LilyPond syntax and can edit it. There are some limitations still in that editing (e.g. changing a note to a different note is still not possible, and there is no syntax highlighting, but you can re-write entirely the score layout starting from the default). Ok ok, I guess I'll get the Midi-equipped accordion from the storage, see whether any contacts are stuck, install a current version of Denemo and get myself informed. _Very_ frustrating and unusable. Complains about missing libraries when starting but those are available in Ubuntu. Opens what feels like dozens of overlapping windows you first need to cleanup. Refuses to compile anything, stating in the print preview window that LilyPond can't compile stuff (there is a version of LilyPond in the path). One can open the LilyPond source file window (looks like it should work in 2.19.0), but Denemo refuses to open the LilyPond error window. So it is impossible to figure out _why_ compilation fails. On stderr, there is a flurry of messages like ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintB.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory Switched to Default Score Layout finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintB.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintB.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond which is probably related to the problem in some kind: there is no directory DenemooneMNfd anywhere and I don't see why it should. This was using the Denemo 1.1 installer for GNU/Linux from the Denemo download page, on an Ubuntu 13.10 installation. It seems pretty much unusable. I can enter notes, but I don't get anywhere with trying to generate output. The print preview has several buttons labelled things like Print and other, and it is totally unclear what they will actually do. Pressing them does not cause any effect (apart from error messages on stderr). So much for the binary install. I am not too enthused about the prospect of having to compile from source just to be able to test basic functionality and possibly get a better clue about the intended startup behavior. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes: ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory starting to generate LilyPond finished generating LilyPond which is probably related to the problem in some kind: there is no directory DenemooneMNfd anywhere and I don't see why it should. Now I have to take that one back: there is such a directory: dak@lola:~$ ls /tmp/DenemoneMNfd/ denemoprintA.ly denemoprintB.ly I just happened to type the ls command in a window logged into a different computer. The rest is pretty much as described. This was using the Denemo 1.1 installer for GNU/Linux from the Denemo download page, on an Ubuntu 13.10 installation. It seems pretty much unusable. I can enter notes, but I don't get anywhere with trying to generate output. The print preview has several buttons labelled things like Print and other, and it is totally unclear what they will actually do. Pressing them does not cause any effect (apart from error messages on stderr). So much for the binary install. I am not too enthused about the prospect of having to compile from source just to be able to test basic functionality and possibly get a better clue about the intended startup behavior. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
LilyPond editing environments
Hi, I have a few questions about the contents of the Easier editing page on lilypond.org. a) LilyPondTool. The link is broken, and http://lilypondtool.blogspot.de/ states (as of 2012-09-14) that development of LilyPondTool is stopped. Should I move it to the Other programs not being actively developed section? b) What is the reason that Tunefl is the topmost item in this list Shouldn't we instead add a new subsection for Online tools? - Tunefl - Schikker's list - lilybin - more? I would even add the MediaWiki extension to Wikipedia there. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond 2.17.97 released!
I've just been informed by Phil that due to internet connection problems during the upload not all files have reached the server - this will be fixed as soon as possible! Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Re-LilyPond-2-17-97-released-tp155419.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Unaccepted #t
The following snippet gives an error because ##t
Why
Tom
\version 2.16.2
freeformat = #f
\score{
\new Staff
\relative c'{ c d e f a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a
g a g a \break a b f}
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = ##t
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f
}
}
%\midi{}
}
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Re: Unaccepted #t
Am 09.12.2013 13:00, schrieb Tom van der Hoeven:
The following snippet gives an error because ##t
Why
Tom
\version 2.16.2
freeformat = #f
\score{
\new Staff
\relative c'{ c d e f a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g
a g a g a \break a b f}
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = ##t
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f
}
}
%\midi{}
}
In order for this to be compiled without errors you'd have to write
freeformat = ##f
#f
is the Scheme representation of false
and you need the second # to tell LilyPond that there is going to be a
Scheme expression.
But you don't use that value in your code, so what is it for?
HTH
Urs
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Re: Unaccepted #t
Am 09.12.2013 13:00, schrieb Tom van der Hoeven: The following snippet gives an error because ##t Why \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = ##t \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f Hi Tom, both the line- and the page-break-permissions expect one of these key words: 'allow or 'force and not boolean values (#t or #f). For example: \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = #'force \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = #'allow HTH, Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Unaccepted #t
both the line- and the page-break-permissions expect one of these key words: 'allow or 'force and not boolean values (#t or #f). PS: Btw, this documented here: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/internals/nonmusicalpapercolumn PPS: If you put this in the layout block, they are valid for each point in time and thus line breaks or page breaks are allowed or forced at each barline. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 11:51 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes: Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 09:52 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: Denemo: this is a GUI application for writing music scores that uses LilyPond internally for creating its output. While working with it, you will not be exposed to the LilyPond language at all, This is incorrect. If you double click on a note, repeat bar ... you are told the LilyPond syntax that this element has created. If you switch to the LilyPond view of the Denemo score you see the LilyPond syntax and can edit it. There are some limitations still in that editing (e.g. changing a note to a different note is still not possible, and there is no syntax highlighting, but you can re-write entirely the score layout starting from the default). Ok ok, I guess I'll get the Midi-equipped accordion from the storage, see whether any contacts are stuck, install a current version of Denemo and get myself informed. _Very_ frustrating and unusable. Complains about missing libraries when starting but those are available in Ubuntu. Opens what feels like dozens of overlapping windows you first need to cleanup. Yes, this has annoyed all ponders who have tried the latest Denemo. I guess they will have to stay closed on the first run. (Once you close them they stay closed if you quit cleanly). It will then be up to the user to find the palettes in the View menu and start exploring them. Refuses to compile anything, stating in the print preview I wonder why - it works for some distros out of the box - otherwise you have to give the path to LilyPond in Edit-Change Prefs-Externals window that LilyPond can't compile stuff (there is a version of LilyPond in the path). One can open the LilyPond source file window (looks like it should work in 2.19.0), but Denemo refuses to open the LilyPond error window. It does actually open the LilyPond Errors pane, but as Denemo is unable to run LilyPond that is empty. The LilyPond Errors item is not a separate window but a pane in the LilyPond view, it would be better if the toggle for this lived in the LilyPond window. So it is impossible to figure out _why_ compilation fails. On stderr, there is a flurry of messages like ** (denemo:6378): WARNING **: Trying to read the pdf file file:///tmp/DenemoneMNfd/denemoprintA.pdf gave an error: Error opening file: No such file or directory [,,,] which is probably related to the problem in some kind: there is no directory DenemooneMNfd anywhere and I don't see why it should. This was using the Denemo 1.1 installer for GNU/Linux from the Denemo download page, on an Ubuntu 13.10 installation. It seems pretty much unusable. well, it is until it has found LilyPond. I can enter notes, but I don't get anywhere with trying to generate output. The print preview has several buttons labelled things like Print and other, and it is totally unclear what they will actually do. If you hover over them the tooltip will tell you. When you get tired of the tooltips popping up so quickly and obtrusively you cut out the real newbie ones from the Help menu and alter the time to pop up tooltips from the Preferences menu. Pressing them does not cause any effect (apart from error messages on stderr). Well as this is a LilyPond output window with no LilyPond executable found this is not by itself surprising. It should tell you (once only) that it didn't find LilyPond. So much for the binary install. I am not too enthused about the prospect of having to compile from source just to be able to test basic functionality and possibly get a better clue about the intended startup behavior. For folk with compilers, autotools and so on already installed building from source is painless - it is not like running GUB. The list of packages needed is on the Download page. (Hmm, pretty painless, but there is some squabble amongst the distros about splitting up one library into two ...) I have put in bug reports for the problems you have unearthed - Thank you! Richard ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Website Work
Il 09/dic/2013 09:22 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2013/12/9 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: 2013/12/6 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: A complete color _scheme_ might be distracting, but it may make sense to have a title or side bar or other obvious always on-screen element color-coded. Okay, so I have a patch set ready to go with this. The only differences are that the Usage book is yellow, the Internals book is purple, and I made the Contributor's Guide black. Where should I submit the patches for review? I've tried reading the Contributor's Guide and I come up with about 3 or 4 different methods, and this sort of work is kind of in a no-man's land anyway. Please upload it using git cl tool, as described in http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/contributor/commits-and-patches#uploading-a-patch-for-review After doing so, there should be a new issue in the tracker (http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/list) about your patch, and inside that issue there should be a link to http://codereview.appspot.com/something I've already created the issue in the tracker. Carl, put the issue number in your commit message and IIRC git-cl will be able to understand ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Unaccepted #t
Urs,
thank for you quick reply.
I am translating pieces with clef alto to clef treble
First step by just copy the original.
At checking time I want to be in sink with the original
Second step clef treble and free format, because the spacing of Lilypond
is the best.
For free format you need changes at 2 places.
The trick with mbreak = {} %\break
and give line break permission.
I want to handle them both with a boolean in the masterfile
freeformat = #t
or
freeformat = #f
So this is the underlying problem
Tom
Noeck,
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = #'force
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = #'allow
this solves the problem, but is is strange that
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f
is accepted
Tom
Urs Liska schreef op 9-12-2013 13:30:
Am 09.12.2013 13:00, schrieb Tom van der Hoeven:
The following snippet gives an error because ##t
Why
Tom
\version 2.16.2
freeformat = #f
\score{
\new Staff
\relative c'{ c d e f a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g a g
a g a g a \break a b f}
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = ##t
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f
}
}
%\midi{}
}
In order for this to be compiled without errors you'd have to write
freeformat = ##f
#f
is the Scheme representation of false
and you need the second # to tell LilyPond that there is going to be a
Scheme expression.
But you don't use that value in your code, so what is it for?
HTH
Urs
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Re: Unaccepted #t
Hi Tom, Am 09.12.2013 14:05, schrieb Tom van der Hoeven: \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'line-break-permission = #'force \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = #'allow this solves the problem, but is is strange that \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f is accepted #f is often just interpreted as nil or null. So \override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f would be something like NonMusicalPaperColumn.page-break-permission = null in another language. HTH, Jan-Peter ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
2013/12/9 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org: Hi, I have a few questions about the contents of the Easier editing page on lilypond.org. a) LilyPondTool. The link is broken, and http://lilypondtool.blogspot.de/ states (as of 2012-09-14) that development of LilyPondTool is stopped. Should I move it to the Other programs not being actively developed section? absolutely! b) What is the reason that Tunefl is the topmost item in this list Shouldn't we instead add a new subsection for Online tools? - Tunefl - Schikker's list - lilybin - more? I would even add the MediaWiki extension to Wikipedia there. Hard to say. And I think there was some licensing problem with Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend non-free programs). But i agree that Frescobaldi should be on top, then Denemo, and then Tunefl (as it does allow only to create small scores). Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
adding engravers
Hi,
Inside a \with context or for the default context, this is short and
nice to write. But it gets more lengthy for general settings in the
layout block when different contexts are addressed. I always have to
look it up as for the former #' syntax.
Is there a shorter way for a general setting like this?
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists Ambitus_engraver
}
}
Would it be difficult to implement something like this?
\layout {
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
or
\layout {
\add Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
Cheers,
Joram
--
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Re: adding engravers
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
Inside a \with context or for the default context, this is short and
nice to write. But it gets more lengthy for general settings in the
layout block when different contexts are addressed. I always have to
look it up as for the former #' syntax.
Perhaps time to learn what each line means.
Is there a shorter way for a general setting like this?
\layout {
\context {
context definition follows:
\Staff
like \music copying a music variable, \Staff copies a context
definition. The salient point is that this context definition contains
a \name Staff, so without overriding \name (which is perfectly
feasible), the new definition will get stored back into \Staff again.
\consists Ambitus_engraver
This changes the context definition.
}
}
Would it be difficult to implement something like this?
\layout {
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
That would only make any kind of sense if you could actually write
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver also in mid-music. However, engravers
are not usually prepared to be added and removed from already live
contexts, so this would likely cause huge messes and new bugs.
or
\layout {
\add Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
That does not resemble anything else. I'm not in favor of adding random
syntactic variations of already existing features.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 14:15 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 11:51 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes: _Very_ frustrating and unusable. Complains about missing libraries when starting but those are available in Ubuntu. I missed this bit when I replied before. Remarkable that it does actually start then, in fact, bizarre, this is not a static executable but a dynamic one with a bunch of shared libraries bundled in (like LilyPond, in fact, built with the same GUB machinery). Opens what feels like dozens of overlapping windows you first need to cleanup. Yes, this has annoyed all ponders who have tried the latest Denemo. I guess they will have to stay closed on the first run. (Once you close them they stay closed if you quit cleanly). It will then be up to the user to find the palettes in the View menu and start exploring them. Refuses to compile anything, stating in the print preview I wonder why - it works for some distros out of the box - otherwise you have to give the path to LilyPond in Edit-Change Prefs-Externals Nope. Not even with an explicit path to either 2.19.0 or 2.16.2. Just displays the following screen shot. Also seems to have some memory managing problems: the fonts in the windows displayed E instead of k. This does indeed look like memory corruption - the other symptoms you give are not like anything I have seen with Denemo running correctly either. I thought I would test out the binary that is on denemo.org and downloaded it in a virtual machine running a vanilla Debian stable O/S, the result: it will not even start. The executables ~/usr/bin/denemo and ~/usr/bin/lilypond are present and have the right permissions but attempting to execute them from the bash prompt results in a baffling No such file or directory message: ls -l denemo -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 1479840 Nov 25 23:00 denemo rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./denemo bash: ./denemo: No such file or directory rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ and then the same thing for lilypond: ls -l lilypond -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 4377128 Nov 25 23:00 lilypond rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./lilypond bash: ./lilypond: No such file or directory This is something I've seen before and assumed was to do with my development environment. I think it gets tested on Ubuntu distributions before being uploaded, and certainly it seems to get a bit further on your distro. I can only appeal to anyone with a GNU/Linux system to test it out. window that LilyPond can't compile stuff (there is a version of LilyPond in the path). One can open the LilyPond source file window (looks like it should work in 2.19.0), but Denemo refuses to open the LilyPond error window. It does actually open the LilyPond Errors pane, but as Denemo is unable to run LilyPond that is empty. The LilyPond Errors item is not a separate window but a pane in the LilyPond view, it would be better if the toggle for this lived in the LilyPond window. No, there is no LilyPond error view, not in a pane or otherwise. Well as this is a LilyPond output window with no LilyPond executable found this is not by itself surprising. It should tell you (once only) that it didn't find LilyPond. It's a text in the window, and it does not change. So much for the binary install. I am not too enthused about the prospect of having to compile from source just to be able to test basic functionality and possibly get a better clue about the intended startup behavior. For folk with compilers, autotools and so on already installed building from source is painless - it is not like running GUB. The list of packages needed is on the Download page. (Hmm, pretty painless, but there is some squabble amongst the distros about splitting up one library into two ...) I have put in bug reports for the problems you have unearthed - Thank you! Do you have any users actually having success with the binary package on Ubuntu? If not, telling people that the ancient versions delivered with the system itself are not to be used is creating a rather large barrier of entry. As I say, I am told that it is a Ubuntu system that it gets tested on, but if would help if we got more feedback from users. I occasionally get visits from people with apple macs and the mac versions have worked on their machines and I test windows versions on two or three machines with various flavors of their o/ses. A GNU/Linux binary you would have thought would be easier than either of those to get working ... (As I wrote this I recalled that I have a small partition with Ubuntu 12.04 installed, I rebooted and went through the same process as with Debian Stable and got the same, bizarre result). I think we need to warn people that they may well need to built it :( Richard
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: I thought I would test out the binary that is on denemo.org and downloaded it in a virtual machine running a vanilla Debian stable O/S, the result: it will not even start. The executables ~/usr/bin/denemo and ~/usr/bin/lilypond are present and have the right permissions but attempting to execute them from the bash prompt results in a baffling No such file or directory message: ls -l denemo -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 1479840 Nov 25 23:00 denemo rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./denemo bash: ./denemo: No such file or directory rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ and then the same thing for lilypond: ls -l lilypond -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 4377128 Nov 25 23:00 lilypond rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./lilypond bash: ./lilypond: No such file or directory That's typical if a) the file is an executable script b) it has a #! comment in its first characters c) the named executable in the #! comment does not exist Do you have any users actually having success with the binary package on Ubuntu? If not, telling people that the ancient versions delivered with the system itself are not to be used is creating a rather large barrier of entry. As I say, I am told that it is a Ubuntu system that it gets tested on, but if would help if we got more feedback from users. I occasionally get visits from people with apple macs and the mac versions have worked on their machines and I test windows versions on two or three machines with various flavors of their o/ses. A GNU/Linux binary you would have thought would be easier than either of those to get working ... (As I wrote this I recalled that I have a small partition with Ubuntu 12.04 installed, I rebooted and went through the same process as with Debian Stable and got the same, bizarre result). I think we need to warn people that they may well need to built it :( It may also help to put the binary directory into PATH proper, like with export PATH=$PATH:$HOME/denemo/usr/bin (don't use ~/denomo/... since that does not work reliably.) -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Hard to say. And I think there was some licensing problem with Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend non-free programs). I see MIT license here: https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
karol wrote This doesn't solve the problem. Look at the example. In the first system spacing is proper, but in the second, distance between 'b' and 'd' is 9 (should be 10.5). I think this is a paradoxical situation: if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group above is applied I'm sorry I can't even see a workaround - I'll report this issue to the bug list. Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/still-no-ultimate-way-to-create-three-staff-piano-layout-tp153648p155440.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 15:56 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes: I thought I would test out the binary that is on denemo.org and downloaded it in a virtual machine running a vanilla Debian stable O/S, the result: it will not even start. The executables ~/usr/bin/denemo and ~/usr/bin/lilypond are present and have the right permissions but attempting to execute them from the bash prompt results in a baffling No such file or directory message: ls -l denemo -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 1479840 Nov 25 23:00 denemo rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./denemo bash: ./denemo: No such file or directory rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ and then the same thing for lilypond: ls -l lilypond -rwxr-xr-x 1 rshanngub rshanngub 4377128 Nov 25 23:00 lilypond rshanngub@debianGUB:~/denemo/usr/bin$ ./lilypond bash: ./lilypond: No such file or directory That's typical if a) the file is an executable script b) it has a #! comment in its first characters c) the named executable in the #! comment does not exist hmm, well they are Elf binary executables (I checked), and when I create a small test script with a bad #! I get a much more helpful bad interpreter error message when I try to execute it. The scripts (as with LilyPond that do start #! /bin/sh) are in ~/bin and they give the bizarre messages: denemo /home/rshann/bin/denemo: 41: /home/rshann/bin/denemo: cannot create : Directory nonexistent /home/rshann/bin/denemo: 45: /home/rshann/bin/denemo: /home/rshann/denemo/usr/bin/gtk-query-immodules-2.0: not found /home/rshann/bin/denemo: 49: exec: /home/rshann/denemo/usr/bin/denemo: not found These seem of a piece with the attempts to get the executables to launch directly - it is as if the command line interpreter is not a normal shell. I see that it is a link to /bin/dash and indeed running the script using bash instead I get a different error message. /bin/bash bin/denemo bin/denemo: line 41: $GDK_PIXBUF_MODULE_FILE: ambiguous redirect bin/denemo: line 49: /home/rshann/denemo/usr/bin/denemo: No such file or directory I've never tried delving into this stuff before, as I assumed it was just my development environment interfering with the normal user experience. Do you have any users actually having success with the binary package on Ubuntu? If not, telling people that the ancient versions delivered with the system itself are not to be used is creating a rather large barrier of entry. As I say, I am told that it is a Ubuntu system that it gets tested on, but if would help if we got more feedback from users. I occasionally get visits from people with apple macs and the mac versions have worked on their machines and I test windows versions on two or three machines with various flavors of their o/ses. A GNU/Linux binary you would have thought would be easier than either of those to get working ... (As I wrote this I recalled that I have a small partition with Ubuntu 12.04 installed, I rebooted and went through the same process as with Debian Stable and got the same, bizarre result). I think we need to warn people that they may well need to built it :( It may also help to put the binary directory into PATH proper, like with export PATH=$PATH:$HOME/denemo/usr/bin (don't use ~/denomo/... since that does not work reliably.) Putting the path to the denemo and lilypond executables still does not make them execute from the command line: /bin/which denemo /home/rshann/denemo/usr/bin/denemo rshann@DebianBox:~$ denemo bash: /home/rshann/denemo/usr/bin/denemo: No such file or directory this was done in my development environment, but now I'm fairly sure that is not relevant. It appears to be the actual Elf executables that cause the bizarre No such file or directory message, there is no symbol main to stop them on, which would indicate that they are not proper executables at all... some sort of trouble with the linker or libtool I guess. But then why does it ever work (or do people quietly go off and build from sources and not mention the problem?). Richard ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
2013/12/9 Federico Bruni fedel...@gmail.com: 2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Hard to say. And I think there was some licensing problem with Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend non-free programs). I see MIT license here: https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE Indeed, i couldn't find any information about problems in the mail archives. So i think it should be added - i think it's very nice, and a terrific introduction to Lilypond! J ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: adding engravers
Hi David,
thanks for patiently answering my mail.
like \music copying a music variable, \Staff copies a context
definition. The salient point is that this context definition contains
a \name Staff, so without overriding \name (which is perfectly
feasible), the new definition will get stored back into \Staff again.
Ok, that's what happens internally. But do I have to care and understand
all that as a user? A user might want all his scores without bar
numbers. The recommended way is to remove the corresponding engraver.
That makes sense. Why does he have to know about \Staff and the
difference to Staff (as in \new Staff)?
If found
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/defining-new-contexts
and I see that this is a powerful syntax. Still I think, the basic
functions of adding and removing engravers to/from their default context
could become easier for newbies (like me who uses LP only for 10 years
now) – in addition to the powerful syntax.
\layout {
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
That would only make any kind of sense if you could actually write
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver also in mid-music.
What is the connection? I would not expect this just because the syntax
to \override is similar.
I know that your are reluctant towards such changes and mostly for good
reasons. In this case the explanation didn't convince me fully so far.
But ok.
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: LilyPond editing environments
Am 09.12.2013 17:34, schrieb Janek Warchoł: 2013/12/9 Federico Bruni fedel...@gmail.com: 2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com Hard to say. And I think there was some licensing problem with Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend non-free programs). I see MIT license here: https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE Indeed, i couldn't find any information about problems in the mail archives. So i think it should be added - i think it's very nice, and a terrific introduction to Lilypond! J Would a section Online Tools better be placed between the full-fledged editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and Text editors or after the Text editors. I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/ or - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which I unfortunately don't find right now. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Would a section Online Tools better be placed between the full-fledged editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and Text editors or after the Text editors. I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/ or - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which I unfortunately don't find right now. Urs I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a Gallery (things that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting, This is what someone has done with LilyPond (similar to Pondings). The difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does one thing through a user interface. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
2013/12/9 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org: Would a section Online Tools better be placed between the full-fledged editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and Text editors or after the Text editors. before text editors imo ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Would a section Online Tools better be placed between the full-fledged editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and Text editors or after the Text editors. I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/ or - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which I unfortunately don't find right now. Urs I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a Gallery (things that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting, This is what someone has done with LilyPond (similar to Pondings). The difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does one thing through a user interface. To clarify on this point, I would separate Gallery items into a separate page from anything related to installing/using LilyPond. This is fairly normal and I would want to maintain a clear distinction between things that let you work with LilyPond to do what *you* want, and things that either (a) have no functional use (e.g., postings of LilyPond-engraved works), or (b) are limited-scope utilities (such as Scale Matcher), particularly in the latter case so that someone doesn't go to the site mistakenly thinking they can use it to do x (in spite of clear disclaimers to the contrary). Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond editing environments
Am 09.12.2013 18:19, schrieb Carl Peterson: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Would a section Online Tools better be placed between the full-fledged editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and Text editors or after the Text editors. I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/ or - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which I unfortunately don't find right now. Urs I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a Gallery (things that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting, This is what someone has done with LilyPond (similar to Pondings). The difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does one thing through a user interface. To clarify on this point, I would separate Gallery items into a separate page from anything related to installing/using LilyPond. This is fairly normal and I would want to maintain a clear distinction between things that let you work with LilyPond to do what *you* want, and things that either (a) have no functional use (e.g., postings of LilyPond-engraved works), or (b) are limited-scope utilities (such as Scale Matcher), particularly in the latter case so that someone doesn't go to the site mistakenly thinking they can use it to do x (in spite of clear disclaimers to the contrary). Carl Actually this is what I thought immediately after sending my message ;-) I think the Gallery of - concerts - published scores - things that have been done with LilyPond also deserves a few thoughts ... Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: adding engravers
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
\layout {
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver
}
That would only make any kind of sense if you could actually write
\consists Staff.Ambitus_engraver also in mid-music.
What is the connection? I would not expect this just because the
syntax to \override is similar.
Well, I don't expect analogous use of equivalent functionality in
several situations to sometimes work, and sometimes not, and to have
people remember which will be the case when.
I don't like exceptions.
I know that your are reluctant towards such changes and mostly for
good reasons. In this case the explanation didn't convince me fully so
far.
Shrug. The proposed syntax also does not work all that well with Scheme
engravers.
--
David Kastrup
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man pages refer to older version in title
I am not sure if this is due to being in development, but I wanted to send a note that the man pages for lilypond, musicxml2ly and such for 2.17.x have version 2.14.2 in the title text of the man page doc. (linux 64bit binary from lilypond.org) $ lilypond --version GNU LilyPond 2.17.97 Copyright (c) 1996--2012 by Han-Wen Nienhuys han...@xs4all.nl Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org and others. $ man lilypond LILYPOND(1) User Commands LILYPOND(1) NAME LilyPond - manual page for LilyPond 2.14.2 $ man musicxml2ly MUSICXML2LY(1) User Commands MUSICXML2LY(1) NAME musicxml2ly - manual page for musicxml2ly (LilyPond) 2.14.2 [snip to bottom] musicxml2ly (LilyPond) 2.14.2 February 2013 MUSICXML2LY(1) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: man pages refer to older version in title
- Original Message - From: Scott Miller To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 9:16 PM Subject: man pages refer to older version in title I am not sure if this is due to being in development, but I wanted to send a note that the man pages for lilypond, musicxml2ly and such for 2.17.x have version 2.14.2 in the title text of the man page doc. I'm guessing the man pages need to be updated separately from the binary? The other docs certainly do. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: man pages refer to older version in title
2013/12/9 Scott Miller scottli...@gmail.com I am not sure if this is due to being in development, but I wanted to send a note that the man pages for lilypond, musicxml2ly and such for 2.17.x have version 2.14.2 in the title text of the man page doc. the man pages are part of your distro lilypond package $ apt-cache policy lilypond will return 2.14.2 in your case ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: man pages refer to older version in title
Ah! Cancel. That appears to be from the Debian stable version of lilypond on the system. :) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
On 09/12/2013 06:12, James Harkins wrote: My flippant response makes it sound like any reasonably intelligent person would find the right information fairly quickly, casting the problem in terms of user carelessness. That was a misstatement. My point is that reasonably intelligent, reasonably careful readers can visit lilypond.org and get from it no strong feeling for the importance of downloading a dedicated editor *in addition to* LilyPond itself. Don't forget, also, that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. Off-topic slightly, but read Feynmann on keeping time in your head. The task was count from 1 to 60 in your head and keep consistent time. MOST people can do that while watching TV, come in bang on time, and answer questions on what they have seen. MOST people, if you hold a conversation with them, either they ignore you or their time-keeping goes to pot. Feynmann was surprised that some of his fellow students could hold a conversation no problem - but watching TV trashed their time-keeping! Turns out MOST people count in their head using silent talking. Make them talk, and they can't keep time. But SOME people watch a ticker-tape, and have no trouble talking. Disrupt their visual sense, however, and they're in trouble... I answer a lot of questions on the SuperCollider mailing list -- a LOT of questions. Often the answers involve See * in the documentation. At some points, I would get frustrated with this... Why can't people find this information? Aren't they reading the help pages? Then I realized, it's not that it all -- it's just that there are so many help pages that nobody can get intimately familiar with them quickly. I have something like a 10 year head start over new SC users in that regard. That's a valuable resource on my part, but not a failing on their part. Are the manual pages in a suitable format? I HATE Word, because its mental map is not mine. On the other hand, I switched to WordPerfect no trouble - it has a different mental map that meshes with mine almost perfectly. The more WP tries to ape Word, the harder it becomes for me to use it. Likewise, I have no trouble using lilypond's *P*D*F* manuals. My mind is very text-oriented. But I HATE HYPERTEXT. My IQ is off the scale (not really, but I'm in the top few percent of the population), but give me a web-site and if what I'm looking for is not staring me in the face, then I have difficulty finding it. So you can NOT conclude that a reasonably intelligent visitor will be able to find what they're looking for. I'm extremely intelligent and I have difficulty. And I doubt I'm alone ... Cheers, Wol ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
2013/12/7 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org: Mike, are you still responsible for this or how will new Pondings be included? Pondings can be added by anyone who has push access (and if someone without it makes a patch, having it pushed by someone should be a no-brainer). David is adding one now: http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3712 and i think it would be generally good if everyone felt responsible for pondings. It would be nice to drop three sentences in the CG about pondings (probably in chapter about website). I'd do it myself, but i already have too much to do :/ best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: adding engravers
Hi David,
I don't like exceptions.
I understand, me neither. But to me the current way looks like an
exception (until the user understands the details). I attached a small
list what users struggle with, whom I help to use LP*.
I know that your are reluctant towards such changes and mostly for
good reasons. In this case the explanation didn't convince me fully so
far.
Shrug. The proposed syntax also does not work all that well with Scheme
engravers.
It's not about my syntax, it's about ease of use for inexperienced
users. I won't propose another syntax. My question was more like: if you
(who knows the details) see a way of simplifying this for the user, I
would welcome it.
Cheers,
Joram
* Here is the list (real life, incomplete and unordered), not with the
intend that this has to be changed, just to give an impression what
exception means for non-programmers (in most cases I know the reason
and try to teach it, but that is a complete new universe for most
musicians):
- what does mean? sometimes enclosing in is needed sometimes not
- sometimes # before the value is needed sometimes not
- sometimes it's Staff sometimes \Staff
- most commands start with \ arguments not, but it is not: \key d major
- mostly spaces do not matter, but sometimes text} is bad
- what is this tagline I didn't call for?
- \transpose c d \relative {…} is ok, but \relative \transpose c d {…} not
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Re: promoting LilyPond
2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: Janek Warchoł wrote Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:29 PM 2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: A simpler approach would be to embed templates into LP so that they could just be invoked. The template would provide the context structure of a particular type of score, and also define the variables needed. I very much like it! Could you add it to https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/tree/master/templates I could, but I'll need to annotate them first. And as I said above, a pair of \include'd files are needed, one at the top and one at the bottom - the user code goes in-between the two. I saw Trevor's snippet and it's really nice! Now i'm waiting for the pull request :) best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: promoting LilyPond
2013/12/6 Johan Vromans jvrom...@squirrel.nl: Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk writes: A real example using a template which provides an SATB choir on two staves with lyrics between them and a piano staff with accompaniment is attached. I've been using a similar approach for SLHML choir, with a skeleton template (attached). I haven't been able to add this to LSR since it's not a snippet file, but a package of associated files. Now, this is *exactly* one of the reasons why i have a beef with current LSR design[1], and why i insisted on creating openlilylib/snippets repository. Johan, feel invited to contribute it to https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets best, Janek [1] i don't mean to say that LSR is wrong and unneeded! LSR is awesome, but we need something more awesome :-) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problems with LilyJAZZ.ily
2013/12/8 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Shall be does not state when. It's certainly not a replacement for a formal submission. If someone finds a way to get hold of the author and get him to place the thing in some public place with a clear license statement, it would not get lost in case he becomes harder to reach. The problem is that he had already become harder to reach. Anyway, i think it would be a good idea to try to contact him using other means - telephone, other email? But this should be done by someone speaking German. For example, i found this http://telefonbuch-suche.com/torsten-h%C3%A4mmerle-kleinschmidtstra%C3%9Fe-69115-heidelberg but i'm not sure if it could be of actual use because i don't understand German and thus don't understand the full context :-/ Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: still no ultimate way to create three-staff piano layout
Hi all, I think this is a paradoxical situation: if a staff (group) is removed then the vertical spacing of the staff group above is applied This isn’t “paradoxical”; it’s a lack in the spacing algorithm/.parameters, one which has irritated me for a long time. There should be a way to set pre-system/pre-staff spacing, not just post-. Regards, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
Urs Liska wrote Step out of the dark and tell the world what we do! I use LilyPond for alternative music notation systems like Clairnote: http://clairnote.org/ http://clairnote.org/sheet-music/ and TwinNote (which was my previous focus): http://clairnote.org/twinnote/ http://clairnote.org/twinnote/sheet-music/ I don't know if this qualifies for a ponding since it is a marginal use case and I suppose there's a rationale for keeping the focus on more mainstream/established uses. On the other hand, it does illustrate the great flexibility and extensibility of LilyPond. -Paul -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-org-Pondings-tp155249p155468.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/7 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org: Mike, are you still responsible for this or how will new Pondings be included? Pondings can be added by anyone who has push access (and if someone without it makes a patch, having it pushed by someone should be a no-brainer). David is adding one now: http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3712 and i think it would be generally good if everyone felt responsible for pondings. It would be nice to drop three sentences in the CG about pondings (probably in chapter about website). I'd do it myself, but i already have too much to do :/ best, Janek There probably should be an easier way to submit these things, as it is truly a no-brainer. The only difficult step is substituting all special characters with HTML codes, which is doable on a number of conversion sites. Cheers, MS ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: A thought on Windows Experience
Anthonys Lists antli...@youngman.org.uk writes: Likewise, I have no trouble using lilypond's *P*D*F* manuals. My mind is very text-oriented. But I HATE HYPERTEXT. My IQ is off the scale (not really, but I'm in the top few percent of the population), but give me a web-site and if what I'm looking for is not staring me in the face, then I have difficulty finding it. How do you get along with the documentation in Info format and TeX as its info reader? I'm interested because that's a) hypertext b) what I use predominantly c) and I hate HTML documentation but it features fast indexing, flat searches and instant response. And I get along very well with it, certainly better than with PDF. Which makes me suspect that it's not as much the hypertext aspect but rather the typical browser representation and nabigation and speed that gets in my way. So you can NOT conclude that a reasonably intelligent visitor will be able to find what they're looking for. My usual way for handing out manual links is to first find them in Info with Emacs (usually using the i command with specific keywords), then use a search engine on key phrases in the right chapter for digging up the web links. I'm extremely intelligent and I have difficulty. And I doubt I'm alone ... See above. But it's not hypertext per se but HTML and its browser universe for me. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond.org Pondings
Am 10.12.2013 04:01, schrieb Paul Morris: Urs Liska wrote Step out of the dark and tell the world what we do! I use LilyPond for alternative music notation systems like Clairnote: http://clairnote.org/ http://clairnote.org/sheet-music/ and TwinNote (which was my previous focus): http://clairnote.org/twinnote/ http://clairnote.org/twinnote/sheet-music/ I don't know if this qualifies for a ponding since it is a marginal use case and I suppose there's a rationale for keeping the focus on more mainstream/established uses. On the other hand, it does illustrate the great flexibility and extensibility of LilyPond. -Paul I wouldn't want to decide this, but both should surely qualify for a link on the What people did gallery on the website. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problems with LilyJAZZ.ily
Am 10.12.2013 00:49, schrieb Janek Warcho?: 2013/12/8 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Shall be does not state when. It's certainly not a replacement for a formal submission. If someone finds a way to get hold of the author and get him to place the thing in some public place with a clear license statement, it would not get lost in case he becomes harder to reach. The problem is that he had already become harder to reach. Anyway, i think it would be a good idea to try to contact him using other means - telephone, other email? But this should be done by someone speaking German. For example, i found this http://telefonbuch-suche.com/torsten-h%C3%A4mmerle-kleinschmidtstra%C3%9Fe-69115-heidelberg but i'm not sure if it could be of actual use because i don't understand German and thus don't understand the full context :-/ Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user I'll give that a try. But it's of course not sure that this actually points at the right place ... ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
