Re: ties between voices
LilyPond 2.11.13, Linux This message pertains to ties between single and multiple voice sections of notation of polyphonic instruments, using a technique suggested by Joe Neeman of moving the Tie_engraver from the default Voice context to the Staff context instead. A Goal -- Piano (and presumably other polyphonic instrument) notation often includes sections where a single polyphonic voice splits into two or more voices for the sake of convenience and clarity of notation. These temporary changes in number of voices per staff, often as brief as a mere fraction of a measure, are common and there are frequently ties between these sections of one-, two-, or three- or more voice sections. It would be very nice if there were an easy way to allow ties to extend from one voice to another voice, from a single voice to multiple voices, or from multiple voices to fewer voices or a single voice, without resorting to code that is complex, verbose or which uses tricks to accomplish the task. A Proposed Solution --- One possible solution, proposed by Joe Neeman, is to cause the Tie_engraver to act at the Staff level instead of the Voice level, by removing it in the \layout section from the Voice context and inserting the Tie_engraver into the Staff context. This seems like a great solution, but because the Tie_engraver was originally intended for a Voice context, some unexpected issues may occur when trying to use the Tie_engraver at the Staff level instead of the Voice level. Issues So Far - In trying the technique of moving the Tie_engraver from the Voice level to the Staff level while notating a piano piece with many instances of single-to-multiple voices and vice versa, with many ties between the sections of fewer and more numerous voices, I have encountered a few issues so far. Issue 1: As illustrated in Figure 1 (attached PNG), LilyPond's default placement of the tie between the top notes of chords 2 and 3 of the illustration is so short (to avoid the flat symbol on the 3rd chord) that it is invisible, unless the chords (and measures that contain the chords) are spaced farther apart horizontally (which I did with the \break command at the end of the second measure), as illustrated in Figure 2. Issue 2: I tried to manually add horizontal space between the second and third chord with the following-- \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #2 --between the 2nd and 3rd chord. However, that had no effect. Does this tweak still work, or has it been deprecated? Issue 3: I tried to manually configure the ties between the second and third chords using-- ees g c8~ \once \override Score.TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'( (4 . 1) #t ) ees aes c4 --However, as is illustrated in Figure 3 (attached PNG image), although the top tie was correctly formatted, the lower tie, which is supposed to be beween the lowest notes of the 3-note chords, was misplaced for some reason by LilyPond. Notice that instead of TieColumn I had to use Score.TieColumn because the Tie_engraver is now in the Staff rather than Voice context, and a simple TieColumn had no effect whatsoever. Also note that I had to raise the top tie to staff position 4 (3 was insufficient to cause the tie to clear the top of the flat symbol on the 3rd chord). *** *** *** *** *** *** *** I would be _happy_to_sponsor_ whatever work these issues might require, if Han-Wen and the developers consider the features worthy enough. :-) I'm sure more issues will come to light as I stress-test this idea of moving the Tie_engraver from the Voice to the Staff context, but I think it's a great idea and a great solution if the kinks can be worked out. Notators of polyphonic instruments such as the piano will be very grateful for this functionality. Best wishes everyone, Steve D New Mexico, US -- Seen at a bicycle enthusiasts' web forum-- Question: How many people with Attention Deficit Disorder does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: Want to go on a bike ride?! figure-1.png Description: PNG image figure-2.png Description: PNG image figure-3.png Description: PNG image ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ties between voices
On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 06:21:53PM -0700, Steve D wrote: Issue 3: I tried to manually configure the ties between the second and third chords using-- ees g c8~ \once \override Score.TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'( (4 . 1) #t ) ees aes c4 --However, as is illustrated in Figure 3 (attached PNG image), although the top tie was correctly formatted, the lower tie, which is supposed to be beween the lowest notes of the 3-note chords, was misplaced for some reason by LilyPond. Notice that instead of TieColumn I had to use Score.TieColumn because the Tie_engraver is now in the Staff rather than Voice context, and a simple TieColumn had no effect whatsoever. I should have tried Staff.TieColumn instead of Score.TieColumn -- So I did try both, but the effect (as in Figure 3 of my previous message) was the same regardless of which (Staff... or Score...) was used. :-) Steve D -- A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -Edward Abbey ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ties between voices
On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 08:15:24AM +0200, Joe Neeman wrote:
We've had a few questions about ties between voices (especially ties from
polyphony to chords). It seems that you can get this behaviour simply by
moving the Tie_engraver form the Voice context to the Staff context. Note
that the Tie_engraver was probably designed to live in the Voice context, so
it may not work perfectly, but if people will test it and report problems
then it will get fixed.
\version 2.10.0
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists Tie_engraver
}
\context {
\Voice
\remove Tie_engraver
}
}
\new Staff {
\relative {
{a' b~ c d} \\
{a, b b' c}
}
}
--- --- ---
Thank you very much for the suggestion, Joe. However, in LilyPond
2.11.12, if I add a layout section such as you suggested above, there is
an error message when I invoke LilyPond to process the file--
--- begin error message ---
GNU LilyPond 2.11.12
Processing `blues-in-c-1.ly'
Parsing...
Interpreting music...
Interpreting music... [8][11]
Preprocessing graphical objects...
/home/xscd/lilypond/usr/bin/../share/lilypond/current/ly/init.ly:37:1:
error: GUILE signaled an error for the expression beginning here
#
(if (or (pair? toplevel-scores) output-empty-score-list)
Wrong type argument in position 1: ()
/home/xscd/lilypond/usr/bin/../share/lilypond/current/ly/init.ly:37:5:
error: syntax error, unexpected '(', expecting '='
#(if
(or (pair? toplevel-scores) output-empty-score-list)
programming error: Parsed object should be dead: static
scm_unused_struct* Prob::mark_smob(scm_unused_struct*)
continuing, cross fingers
programming error: Parsed object should be dead: static
scm_unused_struct* Context_def::mark_smob(scm_unused_struct*)
continuing, cross fingers
error: failed files: blues-in-c-1.ly
--- end quote of error message ---
However, if I comment-out the layout section (with %{ %}), as in the
attached file, no error message occurs.
best wishes,
Steve D
New Mexico, US
--
The military was created to protect the leisure lifestyles of the
ruling class. -Eli Khamarov
% Blues in C 1, work for piano by Stephen C. Doonan, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
\version 2.11.12
\paper { }
\header {
title = Blues in C 1
composer = \markup \center-align { Stephen C. Doonan \small (1952- ) }
piece = \markup { \bold Andantino ( \tiny \note #4 #0.75 \normalsize
= 85-115 \bold ) }
% Mutopiaproject.org headers
mutopiatitle = Blues in C 1
mutopiacomposer = DoonanSC
mutopiainstrument = Piano
date = 2006/Sep
source = Composer
style = Jazz
copyright = Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5
maintainer = Stephen C. Doonan
maintainerEmail = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
maintainerWeb = http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/;
lastupdated = 2006/September/25
}
rightHand = \relative c'' {
% 1
\key c \major \time 4/4 \clef treble e, g c2.. ees g c8~ |
ees g c~ ees aes c4 ees aes c4 f bes d8~ f bes d4 |
g e'4 e c' \new Voice { \voiceOne c'4. r8 } { \voiceTwo e,8 f g
\oneVoice ees g bes8~ } |
ees g bes4. f a8~ \afterGrace f a2 {bes16[ a]} |
e g2.. \new Voice { \voiceTwo ees8~ |
ees2 aes | }
{ \voiceOne g c8~ |
g c8 aes bes c c d ees f \oneVoice | }
% 7
c g'4 g e' \new Voice { \voiceOne c4. r8 } { \voiceTwo e,8 f g
\oneVoice ees g bes8~ } |
ees g bes4. f a8~ \afterGrace f a2 {bes16[ a]} |
e g2 \new Voice { \voiceOne c'4. r8 } { \voiceTwo e, f g \oneVoice
ees g c8~ } |
ees g c~ ees aes c4 f a d4~ f bes d4 g bes ees8~ |
g bes ees8~ g c ees4 aes c f4~ aes d f4. |
}
leftHand = \relative c, {
% 1
\time 4/4 \key c \major \clef bass c8 g' d' e c g' d e f c'~ |
f c' ees d c bes aes g f |
c g' d' e c g' d e f c'~ |
f c' ees f g d'~ g d'2 |
}
\score {
\new PianoStaff
#(set-accidental-style 'piano-cautionary)
\set PianoStaff.printPartCombineTexts = ##f
\new Staff = up \new Voice = rh \rightHand
\new Staff = down \new Voice = lh \leftHand
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 100 4)
}
}
%{\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists Tie_engraver
}
\context {
\Voice
\remove Tie_engraver
}
}
%}
}
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Re: ties between voices
First, on Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 08:15:24AM +0200, Joe Neeman wrote:
We've had a few questions about ties between voices (especially ties from
polyphony to chords). It seems that you can get this behaviour simply by
moving the Tie_engraver form the Voice context to the Staff context. Note
that the Tie_engraver was probably designed to live in the Voice context, so
it may not work perfectly, but if people will test it and report problems
then it will get fixed.
\version 2.10.0
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists Tie_engraver
}
\context {
\Voice
\remove Tie_engraver
}
}
\new Staff {
\relative {
{a' b~ c d} \\
{a, b b' c}
}
}
--- ---
Then, Steve D wrote:
Thank you very much for the suggestion, Joe. However, in LilyPond
2.11.12, if I add a layout section such as you suggested above, there is
an error message when I invoke LilyPond to process the file--
--- ---
Then Han-Wen wrote:
this should be fixed in .13, currently uploading.
--- ---
Steve D continues:
Yes, the error message disappears with LilyPond 2.11.13. Thank you so
much Han-Wen.
And Joe, thank *you* so much for the suggestion to move the Tie_engraver
from the default Voice context to the Staff context instead. So far,
working with staves in a PianoStaff context, your suggestion is working
brilliantly, although I have only begun to test it and the piano piece
I'm working on now will really stress-test the technique I believe,
because it has many of these temporary splitting of the notes of the
right or left hand into two or more voices per hand, often for just a
fraction of a measure or spanning just parts of two or more measures.
If this technique (removing the Tie_engraver from the Voice context to
the Staff context) continues to work well, and if any bugs it causes can
be fixed or sponsored to fix, then this is an incredibly good solution
to the problem of temporary, non-formal, intermittent voices that often
occur in the notated music of polyphonic instruments such as piano. It
*greatly* simplifies the LilyPond code in such circumstances, and I am
personally very excited and enthused about the results so far.
Thank you Joe (Neeman), and thank you Han-Wen and other developers.
-Steve D
New Mexico, US
--
Good fortune is what happens naturally in the life of a happy
man.
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Re: ties between voices
On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 08:15:24AM +0200, Joe Neeman wrote:
We've had a few questions about ties between voices (especially ties from
polyphony to chords). It seems that you can get this behaviour simply by
moving the Tie_engraver form the Voice context to the Staff context. Note
that the Tie_engraver was probably designed to live in the Voice context, so
it may not work perfectly, but if people will test it and report problems
then it will get fixed.
\version 2.10.0
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
\consists Tie_engraver
}
\context {
\Voice
\remove Tie_engraver
}
}
What a great idea and suggestion! Thank you so much Joe. I'm going to
try this right away on a piano piece with many such between-voice or
multi-voice-to-single-voice ties that has had me stumped for quite a few
weeks now.
Thanks!
Steve D
New Mexico, US
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Re: Chordal polyphony - suggestion
On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 11:01:44PM +0100, Tomas Valusek wrote: I'm a pianist, and in piano music, itš quite usual that polyphony is occasional - in many times, I need say that one note is hanging over several other notes in the same hand. Like Tomas, I play piano and compose for that instrument. Piano music, like Tomas writes, often splits into temporary voices within a single staff, all played with the same hand, lasting only a fraction of a measure for instance, that resolve into a single note or chord in one voice, often tied to one or more notes from one or more of those temporary voices. These temporary voices are typically used, in notation, to produce a score that is less cluttered, simpler and better looking than one in which the same effect is produced by using just one voice (per hand) but with numerous extra tied notes for the portions of a chord that are sustained while a few fingers play a melody that interweaves between the notes of the sustained chord. Like Tomas, I would very much like to be able to tie notes from two or more voices, to the single note or chord following (or preceding) those momentary or temporary voices. * I would be very happy to sponsor a solution, if a solution is possible* --so that these pseudo- or temporary voices in polyphonic music, unlike the more strict monophonic voices within polyphonic music, can have ties and perhaps other markings that extend from outside the temporary multi-voice context into the multi-voice context, or vice-versa. The piano piece I'm working on now has many of these temporary, mere portion-of-a-measure polyphonic sections for the right hand, in which a single voice playing individual notes or chords, splits into 2 or 3 voices before merging again into a single voice, often with ties necessary between the multi-voice section and the single voice section. Therefore, I'm personally faced with a decision: whether to try to write tricky and complex lilypond code, or to simplify the notation by ignoring how the piece is actually performed and not breaking into temporary voices which necessitate many messy, cluttered-looking partially tied chords. Steve D New Mexico, US -- Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. -John Adams, 1814 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Chordal polyphony - suggestion
On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 12:59:04PM -0700, Steve D wrote: [...] Piano music, like Tomas writes, often splits into temporary voices within a single staff, all played with the same hand, lasting only a fraction of a measure for instance, that resolve into a single note or chord in one voice, often tied to one or more notes from one or more of those temporary voices. To be less ambiguous, I should have written-- ...that resolve into a single voice composed of either a single note or a chord, in which the single note or notes of that single-voice chord are often tied to notes from one *or more* of the voices of the preceding (or following) multi-voice section. This type of multi-voice polyphony is distinct from more formal structured multi-voice music in that it is often used for the sake of convenience and clarity. When the notes played by either the right or left hand of a pianist are notated with multiple voices at times, it both simplifies the appearance of the score considerably, and gives cues to the performer as to how the music should be performed, making melodies that move within a chord structure more obvious, for example, and with fewer tied notes for the portion of a chord that is sustained while the melody moves and changes. -Steve D -- The objective of the Patriot Act [is to make] the population visible and the Justice Department invisible. The Act inverts the constitutional requirement that people's lives be private and the work of government officials be public; it instead crafts a set of conditions that make our inner lives transparent and the workings of government opaque. -Elaine Scarry, Acts of Resistance, Harper's Magazine, May, 2004 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: M.M.
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 08:29:46AM -0400, Palmer, Ralph wrote:
Greetings -
Is there any simple way to indicate approximate with the M.M. (Maelzel
or metronome Mark)? For example, using a tilde (~) instead of an equal
sign (=), or inserting c. (circa) before the per-minute number?
I use variations of the following in my pieces, in the header {} block:
piece = \markup { \bold Andantino ( \tiny \note #4 #0.75
\normalsize = 85-115 \bold ) }
Which produces the output in the attached png graphic:
-sd
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and
the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell
mm-indication.png
Description: PNG image
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Sponsorship--Merge ties from multiple voices into one voice?
Hello all-- I'm wondering if the following would be possible as a sponsored feature, if it cannot be done somehow already. I mainly write piano music. Often there are temporarily two or more voices in a measure or two, which then merge into one voice soon after. Sometimes (quite often, actually) two or more of the voices end with ties which (should) extend to and end at a single-voice chord: separate voices which resolve into a chord which is tied to the previous individual voices. I know that it is possible for the ties of the primary voice (the voice that was in effect before one or more new voices were temporarily created) to cross the boundary of the simultaneous music (multiple voices) on either side of the or boundaries of the simultaneous music.) However, would it be possible to *merge* the pending ties of all voices with some command, so that all pending ties from any voices could be directed to a specific voice (by default, the primary voice that was in effect before the multiple-voice section)? This feature would be extremely handy for me, and I'm guessing would be gratefully regarded by other composers and notators of polyphonic instruments as well. :-) Best wishes, Steve Doonan Portales, New Mexico US -- Forget and forgive. This is not difficult when properly understood. It means forget inconvenient duties, then forgive yourself for forgetting. By rigid practice and stern determination, it comes easy. -Mark Twain ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: tie problem
On Sat, Sep 16, 2006 at 08:45:16PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
Well, you've run into a subtlety of Lilypond that could, perhaps, be
better documented... ;-)
Consider the following code snippet:
theMusic = \relative c'
{
c d g1 ~ | c d g1\fermata \\ { s2 c4 c } \break
c d g1 ~ | { c d g1\fermata } \new Voice { s2 c4 c }
}
Notice that the tie does not work as expected in the first example,
but does in the second.
This is because, in the first example, the \\ construct
explicitly instantiates TWO voices, BOTH of which are in addition to
the one which contains the c d g that starts the tie -- as a
result, the tie doesn't know where to end, because its Voice doesn't
continue on into the block.
In the second example, the \\ is replaced by an explicit (manual)
instantiation using \new Voice -- this ensures that anything before
the \new Voice command is considered part of the Voice that existed
before the block began, and so the tie knows where to terminate.
Thank you Kieren for that explanation. What about the converse case,
where a tie begins inside a { } \new Voice { } construct, at the
end (in the second voice, and one wishes the tie to continue to the next
note or chord outside that simultaneous music construct, like--
\relative c'' {
\time 4/4
{ c2 r2 } \new Voice { e,4 f g ees g bes~ } |
ees g bes1 |
}
--
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are.
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Thanks for \afterGrace; plus dotted-note space sponsorship
Many thanks to whomever sponsored the \afterGrace feature. It's coming in very handy in a piece I'm notating at present. Also, just a reminder that I am willing to sponsor the work on the issue I mentioned in this email message last month, where the dots of some dotted chords were too close to the following chord-- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2006-08/msg00319.html --although Han-Wen mentioned in a reply-- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2006-08/msg00342.html --that it was more a matter of working on the LilyPond code to take care of cases like this by moving the dots closer to their associated chord, or moving the chords farther apart, than a matter of creating a tweak to add horizontal space as I suggested and wondered about in my original message referred to above. -Steve Doonan New Mexico US -- Everything is in a state of flux, including the status quo. -Robert Byrne ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: tie problem
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 08:38:47PM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
Steve D wrote:
Thank you Kieren for that explanation. What about the converse case,
where a tie begins inside a { } \new Voice { } construct, at the
end (in the second voice, and one wishes the tie to continue to the next
note or chord outside that simultaneous music construct [...]
It's exactly the same idea, keep notes that belong to the
same musical voice in the same Voice context. In your case,
the simplest method is to move \new Voice in front of the
{c2 r2}. (However, you have to be extra careful if you start
your ... at the top of the piece, since LilyPond automatically
tries to create Voice contexts. You probably have to explicitly
say
\new Voice \relative c'' {
\time 4/4
\new Voice { c2 r2 } { e,4 f g ees g bes~ } |
ees g bes1 |
}
/Mats
Thank you so much Mats for your explanation. This aspect of LilyPond is
now beginning to make sense to me.
:-)
-sd
--
Good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately, the
experience usually comes from bad judgement.
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Re: tie problem
Mats and Kieren, thanks again for your explanations of
the {} \\ {} construct (and its variants), and how to make ties
cross the boundaries of the simultaneous music construct into the
non-simultaneous music before or after it. Thanks to those explanations
I was able to solve a problem, in a composition I'm currently notating,
like this--
rightHand = \relative c'' {
% bar 1
\key c \major \time 4/4 \clef treble e, g c2.. ees g c8~ |
ees g c~ ees aes c4 ees aes c4 f bes d8~ f bes d4 |
g e'4 e c' \new Voice { \voiceOne c'4. r8 }
{ \voiceTwo e,8 f g \oneVoice \stemDown ees g bes8~
\stemNeutral } |
ees g bes4. f a8~ \afterGrace f a2 {bes16[ a]} |
}
--which prduced the result in the attached .png graphic (see bars 3-4 of
the treble clef)
--
The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
-Douglas Adams
voices-and-ties-example.png
Description: PNG image
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Re: tie collision
On Sun, Aug 27, 2006 at 03:20:47PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
I sure did, huh?
I have 2.8.6 at the moment.
{
\time 4/4
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
c'8~ e'~ g'~ c' e' g' b'
}
The problem you see (a tie of one note of an arpeggio connecting to the
wrong note of the following chord) existed in the 2.8 series after some
work was done on LilyPond's tie code. It was fixed in the 2.9 series of
LilyPond.
Please see the last item on the following News page for LilyPond 2.9:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.9/Documentation/topdocs/NEWS.html
So, you may wish to try LilyPond 2.9.x
Also, you may wish to consider using the briefer notation for chords,
c' e' g' b'
insted of the simultaneous-music construction:
c' e' g' b'
-Steve D
--
Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are
wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to
rule others. -Edward Abbey
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Re: Sponsored feature request--cross-staff chords, ties
On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 06:22:44PM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Trevor Bača wrote: Yes, exactly. The notes can be separately articulated, with separate accidentals and so on. What the notes share will be spanning stems and a single beam. OK. This is a completely different feature than what Steve is looking for. It's also quite a bit easier, I suspect. Yes, that does seem different. It's true that my interest in cross-staff chords centers around their use in the context of two adjacent staves connected by a brace such as is used for piano or other polyphonic instrument such as organ, harp, harpsichord or marimba. However, I'm willing to sponsor both types of cross-staff chords (for adjacent and non-adjacent staves) if they become considered as different features. Steve -- The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't. -Douglas Adams ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Sponsored feature request--partially-tied chords, Thank You Han-Wen
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 05:39:57PM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Steve D wrote: After thinking about it for awhile, I agree with Werner and like his idea better also, if it can be done. [...] c~ e g bes~ would mean that only the c and b-flat would be tied c e g bes~ would mean that the whole chord would be tied c~ e g bes~~ would mean--well, LilyPond would issue an error message? The whole-chord tie would take precedence? ;-) After some thought, I agree with Werner (as usual), and I've changed the implementation to do this. Thank you so much Han-Wen for implementing this sponsored feature (chords in which some but not all notes are tied) and especially for being able to use Werner's clear and easy idea for notating a partially-tied chord. If you work on the issue where in dotted chords that contain an interval of a second, the dots can be too close to a following chord, discussed in the following thread-- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2006-08/msg00342.html please send the invoice to me and I'll pay for it promptly via PayPal. I'm also interested in sponsoring (preferably with one or more other interested people) work on cross-staff chords as has been discussed on this thread-- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2006-08/msg00379.html I believe that at this point Trevor Baca and I are both willing to co-sponsor it. (Right, Trevor?) Does anyone else wish to help sponsor cross-staff chords, which is an important feature but also a considerable project in terms of Han-Wen's time and attention. Once again, thank you very much Han-Wen, Steve Steve Doonan New Mexico US -- I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened. -Mark Twain ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Sponsored feature request--partially-tied chords
On Tue, Aug 22, 2006 at 10:55:05AM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: it's easiest to add a property so you can do c e \tweak #'forbid-tie = ##t g bes cost: 65 EUR. Werner LEMBERG then asked: Just wondering what the much simpler syntax c~ e~ g b~ costs... Han-Wen Nienhuys responded: I can put it in for 35 eur extra, I hope. (the tie engraver is quite tricky, and handling c~ e~ offers more potential for bugs) After thinking about it for awhile, I agree with Werner and like his idea better also, if it can be done. Aside from being clear and simple (to the end user), it can save a lot of typing, especially because when lots of partially-tied chords appear in a piece of music as the result of a rhythmic or other motive. SO-- c~ e g bes~ would mean that only the c and b-flat would be tied c e g bes~ would mean that the whole chord would be tied c~ e g bes~~ would mean--well, LilyPond would issue an error message? The whole-chord tie would take precedence? ;-) Werner, would you be willing to split the sponsorship of this feature with me 50%/50%? I'll commit to its sponsorship, if Han-Wen approves, right now. Steve Steve Doonan New Mexico, US http://www.xscd.com/pub/ -- Good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgement. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Sponsored feature request--cross-staff chords, ties
On Tue, Aug 22, 2006 at 10:29:49PM -0500, Trevor Bača wrote: On 8/22/06, Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I once made an estimate for doing x-staff chords, for 400 EUR. I think that would be the most difficult task. If the stems + noteheads work correctly, adding arpeggios and ties should be relatively easy. For reference, I insert what I wrote to Hans Forbrich: snip Well I had always wondered why the pricing on cross-staff stuff was so high. I thought it might be because it breaks the Voice model, but I wasn't sure ... Well, if Steve or Vivian or Hans or somebody is willing to help out, then I'm willing to pitch in on the sponsoring too. I am definitely willing and will commit to sponsoring this feature, preferably on an equal basis (2 sponsors, 50%, 3 sponsors, 33.3%, etc.). Thanks Trevor-- Steve D New Mexico US -- We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -Jonathan Swift ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Sponsored feature request--partially-tied chords
On Tue, Aug 22, 2006 at 10:55:05AM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Werner LEMBERG wrote: it's easiest to add a property so you can do c e \tweak #'forbid-tie = ##t g bes cost: 65 EUR. Just wondering what the much simpler syntax c~ e~ g b~ costs... I can put it in for 35 eur extra, I hope. (the tie engraver is quite tricky, and handling c~ e~ offers more potential for bugs) I like Werner's simpler suggestion also, but I am willing to sponsor whatever you think will work best and integrate best into LilyPond. Thank you Han-Wen, Steve S. Doonan New Mexico US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Sponsored feature request--partially-tied chords
On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 12:57:51PM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Steve D wrote: Trevor Baca recently asked how one might write in LilyPond tied chords in which only *some* (one or more, but not all) notes are tied to the following identical chord. I am also interested in this, because it sometimes happens in piano music, and I would be interested in sponsoring a feature in LilyPond which one could use to prevent one or more notes within a chord from being tied. At any rate, if Han-Wen thinks this is worthy of some thought and effort, I would be happy to sponsor such a user-specified selective exclusion of notes or partially tied chord feature. it's easiest to add a property so you can do c e \tweak #'forbid-tie = ##t g bes cost: 65 EUR. Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen LilyPond Software Design -- Code for Music Notation http://www.lilypond-design.com That sounds good to me, Han-Wen. The \tweak would affect only the note immediately after it, right? (like \once \override ?) If a piece has lots of partially tied chords, a person could define a macro at the top of his or her piece to diminish the amount of typing: \notie = \tweak #'forbid-tie = ##t c \notie e \notie g bes4~ c e g bes I will be happy to sponsor this. I can pay now via PayPal or later after the invoice. Thank you, Steve -- The difference between a violin and a viola is that a viola burns longer. -Victor Borge ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Sponsored feature request--cross-staff chords, ties
I know that cross-staff beaming has been mentioned periodically on the LilyPond lists. It would be great, for the sake of piano and other polyphonic instrument scores, for there to exist in LilyPond some mechanism that would allow for chords to change staff, perhaps like single-note melodies already can do (with \change Staff = staff-name), and which includes all of the tie functionality. For an example in piano music-- an arpeggiated chord played with both hands across both staves, tied to a following chord that crosses the staves. I recently wrote a piece in which there is a grace-note descending arpeggio played with both hands (sequentially, first the right then the left), that crosses from the treble to the bass staff, and is tied to every note but the lowest note of the following chord (see attached GIF graphic). To do so required some inventive LilyPond code, hidden notes, etc., and in this case, the chord following the cross-staff grace-note arpeggio was not itself a cross-staff chord. However, it would be great, if it can be implemented, for the following to exist in LilyPond: * chords that cross staves (perhaps like f c \change Staff = bass g d) * cross-staff chords that can be tied to cross-staff chords (using automatic and manual tie formatting) * cross-staff arpeggios that can be tied to cross-staff chords (with auto and manual tie formatting) * grace-note arpeggios that can be tied to cross-staff chords (with auto and manual tie formatting) I would be happy to sponsor such functionality. Best wishes, Steve Stephen Doonan Portales, New Mexico US http://www.xscd.com/pub/ -- I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) cross-staff-tied-chord.gif Description: GIF image ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Dotted chords issue? (was Re: Sponsored feature request--horizontal space)
On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 at 08:55:29PM +0200, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Steve D wrote:
I recently notated a piano piece that has repeated dotted eighth-note
chords, and the dots look too close to the following chord. I would love
to be able to add a little space between the dots and the chord that
follows, for example. (see attached GIF graphic)
Hi,
The real problem is that the dots should either be moved closer to the
note in tight situations (preferred, but hard to do) or that the notes
should be forced apart farther when there are dots: that should be
doable. Would you want to sponsor that?
Thank you for your reply Han-Wen. When Mats Bengtsson mentioned that my
previously attached GIF which illustrated some crowded dotted eigth-note
chords looked like it might be a bug, I decided to take those same notes
out of the context of my piano piece and piano staff, and place them in
a minimal LilyPond file. In that new context, with the same notes and
chords, the dots are not crowded for some reason. I have attached a GIF
graphic of this lilypond file:
--- LilyPond test file below ---
% example of spacing of dotted chords containing intervals of a second
\version 2.9.14
\paper {}
\header {}
\score {
\new Staff \relative c' { \key d \major
\times 2/3 { d d'4~ d g a' } d, e a8.~ d fis a8. d e a8~ |
d e a16~ d fis a8. d e a8.~ d fis a8. d e a8.~ d fis a8. |
c e a8.~ c f a8. c e a8.~ c f a8. c e a8.~ c f a16~ |
c f a8 c e a8.~ c f a8. c e a8.~ c f a16~ c f a4 |
}
\layout { }
\midi { \tempo 4=160 }
}
--- end of LilyPond test file ---
[see attached GIF graphic for output of this file, and compare it to the
GIF attached to my previous message in this thread]
I'm in the mood to sponsor LilyPond again, so if this turns out to be a
bug of some sort, I will find some other worthy feature or work to
sponsor in LilyPond. ;-)
best wishes,
Steve
--
Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it. -Henry
David Thoreau
horiz-spacing4.gif
Description: GIF image
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Sponsored feature request--partially-tied chords
Trevor Baca recently asked how one might write in LilyPond tied chords in which only *some* (one or more, but not all) notes are tied to the following identical chord. I am also interested in this, because it sometimes happens in piano music, and I would be interested in sponsoring a feature in LilyPond which one could use to prevent one or more notes within a chord from being tied. For example, consider a C 7 chord tied to another C 7: c e g bes4~ c e g bes In piano music (and perhaps other polyphonic instruments) a chord can be played in such a way that some notes are sustained (tied) and some are sounded or repeated. Someone might notate a piece in which the c and b-flat of the above chord are held, while the e and g are struck in the second and subsequent identical chords. It might be nice to be able to write something like: c e\noTie g\noTie bes4~ c e g bes At any rate, if Han-Wen thinks this is worthy of some thought and effort, I would be happy to sponsor such a user-specified selective exclusion of notes or partially tied chord feature. Steve Doonan New Mexico US -- Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Sponsored feature request--horizontal space
Hello all-- I would like to sponsor a feature, if it does not already exist in LilyPond and if Han-Wen thinks it would be practical to implement: the ability to quickly and easily add or subtract a little horizontal space between musical elements in a staff, something like \hspace does within markup. I recently notated a piano piece that has repeated dotted eighth-note chords, and the dots look too close to the following chord. I would love to be able to add a little space between the dots and the chord that follows, for example. (see attached GIF graphic) Anyway, if Han-Wen thinks that this is a feature that would benefit LilyPond and its users and if it is not too difficult to implement without all kinds of possibly bad side effects, then I would like to sponsor it. best wishes, Steve Doonan New Mexico US -- Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. -Aldous Huxley horiz-spacing3.gif Description: GIF image ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Will sponsor work on these issues
Hello-- I would be happy to sponsor the work on several issues that Werner Lemberg reported to bug-lilypond last month (in June, 2006), if those issues have not already been addressed. Specifically the issues I refer to are related to ties and are mentioned in the following archived bug-lilypond messages: Minmum Length of Ties http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2006-06/msg00129.html Wrong Tie Direction in a Chord http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2006-06/msg00130.html Ties and Sharps http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2006-06/msg00132.html If those issues have already been resolved, then I would like to request another sponsored feature having to do with tweaking horizontal spacing within a staff or system (such as a piano staff). Best wishes Han-Wen, all-- Steve Doonan New Mexico US -- He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. -Winston Churchill ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
2.8.1 bug in tieWaitForNote
tieWaitForNote bug
LilyPond 2.8.1 installed with GUB on Debian Linux
Using \set tieWaitForNote, which allows for ties between arpeggios and a
following chord, some ties are not attached to or do not extend to the
correct note.
--- begin LilyPond code ---
version 2.8.1
\layout { ragged-right = ##t }
\score {
\new Staff \relative c'' {
\clef treble \key c \major \time 4/4
e c a f2~ e c a f |
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
e8~ c~ a~ f~ e' c a f2 |
f,8~ a~ c~ e~ f, a c e2 |
}
}
--- end LilyPond code ---
Attached: tieWaitForNote_1.png and tieWaitForNote_2.png
* tieWaitForNote_1.png is the output of the LilyPond code above
* tieWaitForNote_2.png is an example of the bug in a piece I'm working on
now. The notes of the grace-note arpeggio should be tied to the
corresponding notes of the following chord.
Best wishes,
Steve D
New Mexico US
tieWaitForNote_1.png
Description: PNG image
tieWaitForNote_2.png
Description: PNG image
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Manual tie formatting, slight inconsistency
I am personally extremely grateful for all of the great changes in LilyPond's tie formatting code during these last many months: both the improvements in the default tie formatting and especially the new ability to override the default formatting with manual adjustments. I have thought of an inconsistency though which may confuse some people, especially new users of LilyPond. As of version 2.7.40 and now 2.8, users may now manually format single ties (between two notes, or chords which have just one note tied between them) in addition to entire tie columns between chords that have more than one tied note. The inconsistency is that in the case of single ties, the manual formatting command(s) *precede* the first of the two tied notes (or chords that have only a single note tied), whereas when manually formatting entire tie columns, the formatting commnd(s) are placed *between* the two tied chords-- Example for single tie formatting (in this case, using chords with only a single tied note between them)-- \once \override Tie #'staff-position = #2.5 c'' e''4 ~ a' e''4 Example for multiple tie (tie column) formatting between chords-- c'' e''4 ~ \once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'((0 . -1) (4.5 . 1)) c'' e''4 As you can see, for single ties the command is placed _before_ the two tied notes or chords, but for multiple simultaneous ties, the command is placed _between_ the two chords. Best wishes all, Steve D New Mexico US -- If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. -Catherine Aird ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problems with ties over line breaks
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 08:54:58AM +1100, Cameron Horsburgh wrote: The score I'm working on has ties going over a page/line break. On the second page, one of the ties is hardly noticeable--in fact, I was alerted to the problem by what I thought was a misplaced staccato! [...] http://web.netcall.com.au/horsburgh/Downloads/brantwood.pdf The problem is at the beginning of page 3 on the second cornet line [...] I had the same problem (though not at the same location within the score (not at a page or line break), so I manually added a little extra space before the note the tie ends at, which lengthened the tie and made it more distinguishable as a tie) using a technique described in the manual at the end of section 10.5.6 (Horizontal Spacing)-- \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #1 -sd It is true that liberty is precious--so precious that it must be rationed. -Vladimir I. Lenin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Tie anomaly in \set tieWaitForNote
Tie Anomaly
LilyPond 2.8.0 on Debian Linux, installed using the GUB
There seems to be an anomaly with ties when using the \set
tieWaitForNote feature, in version 2.8.0. I noticed this anomaly when I
was trying to manually format a tie column between a grace-note arpeggio
and the following chord.
Attached is a LilyPond snippet and a PNG image of the output of that
snippet, to illustrate the point. Notice that the tie for the third note
(second tie from the bottom of the tie column) is not associated with
the correct note, or more accurately, does not begin at the correct
note.--
--- begin LilyPond snippet ---
\version 2.8.0
\score {
\new Staff \relative c'' {
\clef treble \key c \major \time 4/4
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t e8~ c~ a~ f~ f a c e2 |
}
}
--- end LilyPond snippet
Attached: tie-test.png
-sd
tie-test.png
Description: PNG image
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Re: Specify Multiple Properties ?
Steve D had asked if there were any way in LilyPond to specify or set
multiple properties for a single object in one command. Mats Bengtsson
responded:
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:25:37PM +0100, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
What would you gain from it? If you want to do the same
group of settings a number of times in the score, just
make a macro:
set_rit = {
\override TextSpanner #'edge-text = #'(rit. . )
\override TextSpanner #'padding = #1.5
}
/Mats
Hello Mats-- Overnight I did think of one instance where setting
multiple properties for a single object, using just one command, would
be nice. Using LilyPond's new functionality to allow manual formatting
for individual ties (thank you, Han-Wen!), it would be nice, instead of
this--
\once \override Tie #'staff-position = #-5.5
\once \override Tie #'direction = #1
c'4 ~ c'
--if one could write something like this (I'm not a programmer, so pardon
the naive construction ;-)--
\once \override Tie #'(('staff-position = -5.5) ('direction = 1))
c'4 ~ c'
In this case, the ability to specify multiple properties and values for
a single object, all at the same time, would be better than writing a
macro as you suggested, because in this manual formatting the values for
the properties would change throughout the musical score where ties were
each individually formatted.
Once again, thanks for all the wonderful help, comments and advice you
offer to LilyPond users.
Best wishes,
Steve
New Mexico, US
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Specify Multiple Properties ?
Hello all-- Is there a way to condense this-- \override TextSpanner #'edge-text = #'(rit. . ) \override TextSpanner #'padding = #1.5 --into just one \override TextSpanner statement? In more general terms, when one wishes to override or manipulate more than one property of a single object, is there a way to group the properties and values? Best wishes, Steve D, New Mexico US -- Preachers and religious leaders are entirely unnecessary and dispensable. They know that, which is why the worst ones attempt to gain a stranglehold on the minds and hearts of those willing to listen to them. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Specify Multiple Properties ?
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:25:37PM +0100, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
[...] If you want to do the same
group of settings a number of times in the score, just
make a macro:
set_rit = {
\override TextSpanner #'edge-text = #'(rit. . )
\override TextSpanner #'padding = #1.5
}
/Mats
--- --- ---
Wonderful.
Thank you very much Mats, not only for this answer but also for the huge
amount of helpful answers and expert advice and comments you have
generously offered to LilyPond users in the past and continue to offer.
Best wishes,
Steve D
New Mexico, US
--
Good fortune is what happens naturally in the life of a happy
man.
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Re: Manual tie configuration
On Sat, Feb 25, 2006 at 01:28:58AM +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Steve D wrote: [regarding manual tie formatting] But in this case, I'm not sure if TieColumn refers to every note of the first chord, or just the note(s) of the first chord that are actually tied, or what? One chord is composed of two notes, while the second chord that the first is tied to is composed of three. just the tied notes, or more accurately, the ties themselves. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen --- --- Thank you Han-Wen. For some reason, with LilyPond 2.7.35 in Linux, this: e a~ \once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'((0 . 1)) c f a --doesn't work. The tie still remains at LilyPond's default formatting, arcing downward and beginning and ending on staff-vertical-position -2 (the staff line just below the middle line). It's as though the pair I had specified for tie-configuration were (-2 . -1) instead of (0 . 1). I keep thinking I have missed something obvious or made a typo. ;-) Best wishes, Steve D. New Mexico, US -- You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook. -President Harry S. Truman ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Manual tie configuration
Regarding the new manual tie configuration, can anyone help with the
following:
{
e a~
\once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'( )
c f a
}
Only one note of the first chord e a, the upper A, is tied to the following
chord c f a
Normally, either pairs of numbers specifying the vertical position of
the tie with respect to the staff lines (0 is the middle line, 1 is the
space above that line, -1 is the space below, 2 is the line above the
middle line, etc.) and the direction of the arc of the tie (1 is upward
arcing, -1 is downward arcing).
But in this case, I'm not sure if TieColumn refers to every note of
the first chord, or just the note(s) of the first chord that are
actually tied, or what? One chord is composed of two notes, while the
second chord that the first is tied to is composed of three.
This is a real-world example, by the way. ;-)
-sd
--
A man must consider what a rich realm he abdicates when he
becomes a conformist. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Manual tie configuration, continued
Manual Tie Configuration--
In a previous email I asked about how to use LilyPond's new manual tie
configuration for a particular pair of tied chords, in a piano piece I'm
notating, which only share one common pitch and a different number of
notes per chord (2 notes in first chord, 3 notes in second):
{ e a8~ c f a }
LilyPond's default behavior is to tie the only common note between the
two chords, the uppermost A, in a downward arc (please see attached GIF,
which shows these chords in the context of the notated work). I would like
to manually configure the tie with respect to vertical placement on the
staff (position 0 or .5 on the treble staff) as well as arc direction
(upward).
Can anyone help, to tell me how to use the following, between the chords
to produce that result?
{ e a8~ \once \override TieColumn
#'tie-configuration = #'( *what-goes-here?* ) c f a~ }
Thanks,
Steve Doonan, New Mexico, US
--
Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness.
-Chuang-Tzu
manual-tie-config.gif
Description: GIF image
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Note for the manual
For manual, 2.7 series, section 6.2.2, Octave check
Comment and suggestion--
The part of this section that explains \octave is somewhat difficult to
understand. It might be helpful, especially for beginners, to state that
\octave a' and other \octave checks produce no visible output in the
score, but that it is instead strictly a method to verify whether the
pitch that is specified with \octave would be (in \relative mode and if
it indeed were notated) at the absolute location indicated by the
single-quote(s) or comma(s) following that pitch.
One of the confusing things about the example is that, if one were to
think that \octave a' actually produced a notated A in the score, then:
\relative c' {
e
\octave a'
\octave b'
}
would seem confusing, because it would seem that, since the expression
is in relative mode, that \octave b' is checking to see whether the B
that will be notated (if \octave b' did indeed produce output visible in
the score) is actually in the same octave (within an interval of a
fourth higher or lower) as the a' that came before it, when in fact both
\octave checks refer to the e that precedes them.
Best wishes,
-sd
--
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters
compared to what lies within us. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Note for manual, thanks for features
Just several comments-- To Graham Percival, for the LilyPond manual: in section 6.1.10, Tuplets, under Commonly Tweaked Properties, there is an example that includes #(ly:make-moment 1 4) (without the double-quotes). You may want to provide a brief explanation within that example as to what exactly those numbers (1 4, or any pair) mean, although the graphical example that accompanies the code implies what it may mean. To Han-Wen: THANK YOU for your recent work on the tie code. Ties are looking really good in LilyPond now, and with manual formatting the occasional difficult tie or tie-column can be easily altered to one's preference. Because I often use unusual or complex chords for piano, I am extremely grateful for the improvements in ties with respect to chord structures. To Nicolas Sceaux: THANK YOU for the wonderful \parallelMusic functionality. It is so nice to finally be able to notate both the right- and left-hand parts of a piano staff together, alternately, bar by bar! Steve D New Mexico, US -- Switching from one compulsion to another is like switching seats on the Titanic. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Note for manual
For LilyPond manual, 2.7 series, section 6.2.3, Transpose: Current: Consider a part written for violin (a C instrument). If this part is to be played on the A clarinet, the following transposition will produce the appropriate part \transpose a c ... Suggestion: Consider a part written for violin (a C instrument). If this part is to be played on the A clarinet (for which an A is notated as a C, and which sounds a minor third lower than notated), the following transposition will produce the appropriate part \transpose a c ... -sd -- Each person's only hope for improving his lot rests on his recognizing the true nature of his basic personality, surrendering to it, and becoming who he is. -Sheldon Kopp ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Note for manual
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 09:56:55PM -0700, Steve D wrote: For LilyPond manual, 2.7 series, section 6.2.3, Transpose: Suggestion: Consider a part written for violin (a C instrument). If this part is to be played on the A clarinet (for which an A is notated as a C, and which sounds a minor third lower than notated), the following transposition will produce the appropriate part \transpose a c ... That little parenthetical note I suggested, (for which an A is notated as ...) is way too wordy and is itself confusing; sorry. I was just trying to avoid confusion for a manual reader who did not know that an A clarinet is notated a third above the pitch the instrument actually produces. Maybe the following would be better: ... played on the A clarinet (which is customarily notated a minor third above the pitches the instrument produces) ... Best wishes. Sorry Graham. I'm subscribing to the bugs-lilypond list now for future notes/comments/suggestions I may offer for your consideration as I re-read the manual. ;-) -Steve -- Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness. -Chuang-Tzu ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Note for manual
Current manual for LilyPond 2.7 series, section 6.1.12, Stems: The graphical example doesn't seem to accurately illustrate the code above it. The stems for notes on the middle line of the staff all point down, despite \override Stem #'neutral-direction = #up (or #down). -sd -- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. His response was a question: 'Where do you want to go?' 'I don't know,' Alice answered. 'Then,' said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.' -Lewis Carroll ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
(Info) Music Notation Modernization Association
I thought some members of the lilypond-user email list might be interested in the thoughts and ideas regarding new forms of music notation with respect to trying to improve in some way on traditional music notation. Link to the Music Notation Modernization Association website below: http://www.mnma.org/ -sd -- Actual political quote-- We do not have censorship. What we have is a limitation on what newspapers can report. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Co-Sponsoring
On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 07:17:51AM +0300, Mehmet Okonsar wrote: Hi to all I'm willing to co-sponsor the following features: Feathered beams; S shaped slurs Music XML import Dashed barlines Cross-staff chords Dynamic formatting if anyone interested in sharing let's start collecting.. Or there may be another feature as listed in the http://lilypond-design.com/sponsor/open-features.html [. . .] --- --- Starting in November, I plan to contribute 200 Euros per month to Han-Wen, for at least 4 months and perhaps 6 months, for whatever work he happens to do on LilyPond. If he wishes to take into account some of my own personal preferences, my own wish-list includes the cross-staff chords you mentioned, as well as automatic and manual tie formatting (Han-Wen mentioned that during the last tie-rewrite, he thought of a possibly better way to rewrite the tie code), and the higher-level \override mentioned at the open-features URL above. Monthly pledges might make it easier on the budgets of cosponsors, for features that will require a relatively greater amount of Han-Wen's time and effort. If anyone else considers cross-staff chords, tie formatting (automatic and manual) and the higher-level \override functionality important, he or she might wish to consider joining me in making monthly pledges as mentioned above. Just an idea-- ;-) -Steve D New Mexico US -- Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others. -Edward Abbey ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: New slur/tie behaviour
Werner LEMBERG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, regarding ties and rules for their placement in chords: Here are my rules again for reference: sequentially from top to bottom: + The topmost tie is always `up'. + If there is a vertical gap to the last note above larger than or equal to a fifth (or sixth?), the tie is `up', otherwise it is `down'. + The bottommost tie is always `down'. Werner --- --- Hello Werner-- Just out of curiosity, how would your rules above accommodate a tied version of the following voicing of an A minor 9 chord, a voicing I tend to use frequently, which has an interval of a second internal to the chord rather than at top or bottom: treble clef staff, notes (from top to bottom): e'' c'' b' g' Wouldn't your rule specify that the c'' and b' would both have ties that arc down, since that interval (a second) is smaller than a fifth? In this case, the rule Han-Wen mentioned of ties of seconds arcing in opposite directions would seem preferable, right? Best wishes, Steve D ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: tie behavior (was: New slur/tie behaviour)
Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, regarding general default tie rules or behavior: Well, AFAIK engraving conventions are: * outer ties point outward * double directions for seconds * direction otherwise determined by vertical position. --- --- Piano is my instrument, and as a polyphonic instrument it can have complex and sometimes crowded chord structures, multiple voices and chords per staff, etc. So ties are personally very important to me. A default behavior and rules for placing ties is very helpful, but there can also occur numerous specific situations in which default behavior is not optimal. So I personally hope that, in any future rewriting of the LilyPond tie code, users will remain able to override default behavior and specify at least the vertical placement and arc-direction for each individual tie, between single notes (that are not part of a chord) as well as for the notes of a chord, and perhaps also be able to stretch or compress the tie horizontally along the X-axis, either the tie as a whole or the individual beginning and ending points of a tie, if the person notating the score thinks the tie would look better a little shorter or longer in any particular circumstance. However, I have no idea whether this last feature (overriding the horizontal length of an individual tie) would be worth the time and effort to implement. Regarding the engraving conventions listed above, they seem generally sound to me and applicable in most situations, although I don't claim to be an expert in such matters. All three conventions would need to be altered in some cases, which is why I hope that users will be able to override default tie behavior. The only thing I would add, personally, to the conventions listed above is a corollary to the first one, outer ties point outward. To me (and I wonder if others agree), although outer notes of a chord should ideally arc outward from the chord, the vertical or Y-axis placement of the beginning and ending points for those outermost ties should be different for tied notes that fall within a staff or ledger *space*, than for ties between notes that fall on a staff or ledger *line*. In the case of notes that fall within a staff space rather than on a line, and merely in my opinion, the ties would look better if the beginning and ending points of the ties were placed in the staff space *adjacent* to the space in which the notes exist, rather than in the same staff space as the notes themselves. For example, in a chord within a treble clef staff, the uppermost note of which is c'', the tie connecting that note would begin and end in the staff space that would be occupied by the note e'', which is more or less exactly the same place that such a tie would be drawn if the uppermost note of the chord were a d'' (placed on a line) instead of a c'' (placed in a space). Just my opinion. ;-) Han-Wen recently mentioned that, in rewriting the tie code a week or 10 days ago, he thought of a possibly better conceptual approach to and foundation for LilyPond's tie code. I would be very willing, in a couple months (like in November for example) to help sponsor such a re-thinking and rewriting of the tie code. Although the recent rewrite is a lot better than the older default behavior for ties, if Han-Wen thinks it can be improved, I'm personally enthusiastic about helping to sponsor an improvement in this (to me) very important aspect of music notation. I am thinking about helping to sponsor such a project by making monthly payments of perhaps 200 Euros or more each, for 4 or more consecutive months, depending on how much time and effort Han-Wen spends on this functionality, should he wish to direct his thought and attention toward it. I would hope that others might be interested in helping to sponsor such a project as well. Best wishes, Steve D New Mexico US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: New slur/tie behaviour
Trevor Baca wrote: I agree. Although I have no idea how to verbally state a better rule ... maybe something like consecutive ties between like pitches should appear at like vertical positions ... ? --- --- To me that seems like it would be a good default behavior. In addition, although I am personally very impressed and pleased with the new tie behavior in general, and love the fact that tie configuration can be manually adjusted, it seems to me (as I mentioned in a recent post, and I wonder if others agree) that in tied chords, the ties for the outer notes (uppermost and lowermost notes of the chord), when they appear on a staff *space* rather than a staff line, would look better if the ties were placed, not horizontally within the same space that the outermost notes occupy, as seems to be the default behavior now, but instead within the staff space just above the staff space that the tied notes occupy (in the case of the uppermost note of the tied chord), or within the staff space just below the staff space that the tied notes occupy (in the case of the lowermost note of the tied chord). -Steve D ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: New slur/tie behaviour
- Original Message - From: Walter Hofmeister [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New slur/tie behaviour I agree, I don't recall seeing a printed edition where the ties or slurs begin and end on the same staff space if the note is in a space, or on the line that the note occupies (which Lilypond now does not do, ie. Lily does now avoid the lines). Walter Hofmeister --- --- There are some instances, such as when chords are crowded, have intervals of a second and so forth, where ties between *interior* (not outermost) notes of the chord have ties placed within the same staff space as the notes that are being tied, for the sake of clarity and readability. But it seems like the default behavior should be to place ties (of notes that are in staff spaces) in the adjacent staff space (above or below, depending on whether the notes are uppermost or lowermost in a chord), rather than within the same space as the tied notes. In addition, this default behavior would remedy the other issue that Trevor B. and others have mentioned--instead of three or more successively tied notes of the same pitch having their ties appear within different spaces (depending on the note durations and horizontal spacing of the notes), the ties for the same pitches would all be placed within the same staff space. This behavior seems also to be what is suggested in various books on notation, such as Gardner Read's, Gerou and Lusk's, etc. ;-) -Steve D ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Rewritten tie code: great
Most of the ties placed by the default behavior of the newly rewritten tie code look great, as shown in the regression tests for tie-chord.ly: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.7/input/regression/out-www/collated-files.html It is so nice to have this aspect of LilyPond improved. Thank you Han-Wen. In addition, it is satisfying to be able to manually format ties in some of the extreme cases (multiple intervals of a second spaced closely within a chord, etc.). I admit that I am a little confused about the newly implemented manual tie configuration, as exemplified by: \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'((0 . -1) (2 . -1) (5.5 . 1) (7 . 1)) b d f g ~ b d f g In each pair of parameters following the #'tie-configuration = I assume that the second parameter represents the direction of the tie (-1 for a downward arc and 1 for an upward arc), and I assume that the first parameter represents the vertical location of each tie, but I can't figure out exactly what the numbers (0, 2, 5.5, 7 in the example above) correspond with or refer to. Anyway, it's wonderful to have this improved functionality. Steve D New Mexico, US P.S. I paid my co-sponsor pledge for the tie rewriting using PayPal. Is the use of PayPal now discouraged? (A few messages in lilypond-devel seemed to indicate that might be.) If so, what is now a preferred method to send donations/sponsorship funds? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Price quote for better tied chords?
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 11:52:47AM -0500, Trevor Baca wrote: [quoting Vincent (VSD)] So we would have now (please correct me if I'm wrong): - Steve D: EUR 100 - Kieren Richard MacMillan: EUR 100 - me (Vincent): EUR 100 - Jay Hamilton: EUR 50 - Bertalan Fodor: EUR 50 that's EUR 400. Then we would just need another EUR 50. a-ny-bo-dy-el-se? Trevor Baca: EUR 50 (Sorry: I mailed Han-Wen privately but forgot to copy the list.) :-) Trevor. --- --- Great! :-) I'm personally so happy that people are willing to sponsor this functionality, and that Han-Wen is willing to work on it. I'll pay my pledge using PayPal, if that's OK, whenever you specify, Han-wen. -Steve D -- The objective of the US Patriot Act [is to make] the population visible and the Justice Department invisible. The Act inverts the constitutional requirement that people's lives be private and the work of government officials be public; it instead crafts a set of conditions that make our inner lives transparent and the workings of government opaque. -Elaine Scarry, Acts of Resistance, Harper's Magazine, May, 2004 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: evince doesn't display 3's
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 11:59:20PM -0700, D Josiah Boothby wrote: Graham Percival wrote: On 16-Aug-05, at 8:03 PM, D Josiah Boothby wrote: Using the 2.6.0 autopackage on Debian sarge/sid, Evince (v. 0.3.0) doesn't display the 3's in the time signatures. --- --- I know what you are talking about. I mentioned it a few weeks ago in this lilypond-user message to which I attached a small image of the anomaly: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2005-07/msg00317.html However, when I print the scores with 3/4 or 5/4 time signatures, the printed copy looks perfect. Therefore I assume it is a problem with how the .pdf files are currently *displayed* by evince and some (but apparently not all) PDF or PostScript viewers, rather than a problem with the underlying .ps or .pdf file itself, or with LilyPond. Please try printing the file, and see if the 3s and 5s in the time signatures are printed correctly. -sd -- Quip: I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: collecting praise quotes for webpages?
Here's some such unsolicited praise, which probably could be condensed and worded better, but-- ;-) As a former Finale user, I was originally daunted by LilyPond's very different approach, where the music notation exists in a plain-text file that the user can create and edit him or herself. But after mere hours of learning how to enter music by typing in a text file, and seeing how brilliantly LilyPond interprets that text to produce a beautiful score, I came to prefer the technique to the often cumbersome, slow process of music notation using a full-blown GUI application like Finale, Sibelius or Igor. In addition, with LilyPond it feels more like one is actually writing the music quickly and spontaneously, leaving the laborious task of score engraving to LilyPond's capable hands. -Steve Doonan, New Mexico, US -- If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. -Thomas Jefferson ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Tie a tremolando - tremolo tied to chord
A while back I asked about the possibility of, and then sponsored, a
feature to tie grace note and other arpeggios to a following chord.
Han-Wen created the
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t (or ##f, as the case may require)
feature as a result, which greatly simplified the piano score I was
notating at the time.
I have found another real-world practical use for the tieWaitForNote
feature: tieing a tremolando (tremolo) chord to a following chord. The
following bit of lilypond code for the upper staff of a piano score:
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t \repeat tremolo 12 { ef'32~ ef,~ }
ef' ef,4 \set tieWaitForNote = ##f df df,4 c c,4
produces the result shown in the PNG image attached to this email
(tied-tremolando-example.png).
Thank you so much for this feature Han-Wen.
-sd
tied-tremolando-example.png
Description: PNG image
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Re: sponsoring better tied chords?
On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 09:14:55PM +0200, VSD wrote: All, it seems that Lilypond still manages the tied chords poorly, and the ties in chords collide very often. e.g. see: http://personales.ya.com/v_s_d/tied_chords.png imho this problem should be solved to avoid poor looking spots in the otherwise gorgeously engraved lilypond scores, so I would be willing to sponsor a feature which helps to improve this issue. Anyone would like to join forces (budget) with me to help me to afford the sponsoring? :) --- --- I would be happy to help co-sponsor such a feature, if Han-Wen considers it worthwhile to study the issue to see if there may be a practical approach to its implementation. I have attached a PNG image that illustrates the default behavior of LilyPond 2.6.3 with respect to ties and chords, especially with respect to intervals of a second, and below that, in the same image, is an example of what I would like to be able to achieve with respect to those same types of chords. Thank you Vincent, for bringing the subject up. It has been on my mind recently too. Anyone else willing to help co-sponsor Han-Wen's work on this feature, if he considers it feasible? -Steve D New Mexico US (I apologize for the size of the PNG attachment. I made it as small as I felt it could be while trying to retain the clarity of the illustration.) ties-and-chords.png Description: PNG image ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: unexpected digit with tied chords
On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 09:21:37AM -0700, Jay Hamilton, Sound and Silence wrote: I'm getting an error message syntax error, unexpected DIGIT, expecting DRUM_PITCH or NOTENAME_PITCH or '' Instead of this: a4 c ~ Type this: a c4~ Instead of this: a2. c Type this: a c2. The duration of all the notes of the chord (within the same voice on the staff), are the same, so it is not merely an arbitrary convention but logical that the duration would be placed following the chord as a whole, not after a particular note *within* the chord. -sd -- Quip: I have plenty of talent and vision; I just don't give a damn. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
3/4 time oddity
Using LilyPond 2.6.1, does anyone else notice an oddity with: \time 3/4 Using gs the 3 seems to be displayed correctly, over the 4, in both the .pdf and .ps versions of the document. In xpdf the .pdf looks fine, but in gpdf and the evince document viewer the 3 is either invisible or distorted or seems to be only partially displayed. This phenomenon sometimes changes with the magnification. The 4 is displayed correctly by all four applications (gs, xpdf, gpdf, evince) at all sizes. It's only the 3 that is invisible or odd-looking. sd ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: 3/4 time oddity
On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 12:10:11AM -0600, Steve D wrote:
Using LilyPond 2.6.1, does anyone else notice an oddity with:
\time 3/4
--- ---
What a horrible question I asked, with no indication of operating
environment, PDF application version numbers, with imprecise phrases
like odd looking and [the phenomenon] changes with different
magnifications, etc. Sorry everyone. I'll work on trying to figure it
out.
Basically, if I include the following in a .ly file:
\time 1/2 { c2 }
\time 2/4 { c2 }
\time 3/4 { c2. }
\time 4/8 { c4 c }
\time 5/4 { c4 c c c2 }
\time 6/8 { c4 c c }
\time 7/8 { c4 c c c8 }
\time 8/8 { c1 }
\time 9/8 { c1 c8 }
\time 13/8 { c2 c c c8 }
--only the time signatures that include a 3 (or 5, it turns out) as
the upper number are displayed in such a way that the 3 (in some PDF
viewers) is either invisible or seems to have the left half of the glyph
chopped off, as well as seeming displaced slightly downward and to the
left of its usual position above the lower number.
Here's a small cropped screenshot of the 13/8 time signature change in
the LilyPond fragment above, as displayed by Gnome PDF Viewer (gpdf):
http://www.xscd.com/pub/pics/tmp/thirteen-eight.gif
Operating environment:
* Tyan dual-CPU (AMD MP) motherboard
* AGNULA DeMuDi 1.2.1 (Debian based Linux distro, latest release, recently
installed)
* Gnome desktop environment
* gs - GPL Ghostscript 8.15 (2004-09-22)
* xpdf - xpdf version 3.00
* gpdf - Gnome PDF Viewer 2.8.2
* evince document viewer - v 0.3.0
Anyway, gs displays both the postscript and PDF versions of the file
created by LilyPond just fine, and xpdf displays the PDF version fine as
well. It's just gpdf and evince (the only two other programs on my
machine that can display PDF files, that I know of) that display the
anomalous '3' (and '5'). However, that did make me wonder if there was
something unusual about the glyph(s) or postscript code that creates the
glyph(s).
Apologies again for such an awkwardly expressed question in the first
place.
-sd
--
He is simply a shiver looking for a spine to run up. -Paul
Keating
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Re: Showing Chord Names
Claude Lord wrote:
This is a repeat of a question I sent last Sunday.
Could someone show me how to modify the following code so that chord names
would appear above the upper staff? I have been unable to find the answer to
this in the online documentation.
If my question is not clear, I would appreciate somebody to tell me so that
I can try to clarify it.
If my question is too trivial, I would also appreciate knowing about it.
Thanks.
\version 2.4.0
upper = \relative c' { \clef treble \key c \major \time 4/4
c1 ~
c4. c8~c d4 e8
e4. d8 d2 ~
d4 r4 a'2
}
lower = \relative c { \clef bass \key c \major \time 4/4
g' c e1 ~
a c e1
a c d fis1 ~
a c d fis1 ~
}
text = \lyricmode { Love __ look __ at the two of us }
\score {
\context GrandStaff
\set PianoStaff.instrument = Piano
\context Staff = upper {
\context Voice = singer \upper }
\lyricsto singer \new Lyrics \text
\context Staff = lower
\clef bass
\lower
\layout {
\context { \GrandStaff \accepts Lyrics }
\context { \Lyrics \consists Bar_engraver }
}
\midi { \tempo 4=180 }
}
--- --- ---
Hello Claude-- I'm just a beginner, but I edited your .ly file above
until it came out as a piano staff with chord symbols above and the
lyrics between the staves. I'm currently using LilyPond version 2.4.2
Here is the version of your file that works and looks as you seem to
want, although I'm sure it is not the most efficient or best solution:
--- modified .ly file ---
\version 2.4.2
upper = \relative c' { \clef treble \key c \major \time 4/4
c1 ~
c4. c8~c d4 e8
e4. d8 d2 ~
d4 r4 a'2
}
lower = \relative c { \clef bass \key c \major \time 4/4
g' c e1 ~
a c e1
a c d fis1 ~
a c d fis1 ~
}
text = \lyricmode { Love __ look __ at the two of us }
chordsymbols = \chordmode { c1 c d:7 d:7 }
\score {
\context ChordNames {
\set chordChanges = ##t \chordsymbols
}
\context PianoStaff
\set PianoStaff.instrument = Piano
\context Staff = upper {
\context Voice = singer \upper
}
\lyricsto singer \new Lyrics \text
\context Staff = lower \lower
\layout {
\context { \PianoStaff \accepts Lyrics }
\context { \Lyrics \consists Bar_engraver }
}
\midi { \tempo 4=180 }
}
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Re: Showing Chord Names
Claude-- In my recent response to you, where I pasted a version of your .ly file that I modified, the output looks better if you substitute the word GrandStaff for every instance of PianoStaff in the file. Your original file used GrandStaff and I changed it to PianoStaff so it would have a brace at the left between staves, but with the lyrics the staves of PianoStaff are very widely spaced vertically; GrandStaff looks much more compact and visually better. -Steve ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: feta in text
David Bobroff wrote: I'm sure this question has been answered already. I did try searching the mail archives, but perhaps my search criteria were not clever enough. How does one include feta glyphs in text? Specifically, I want to be able to indicate an instrument name: Trumpet in Bb. I want to have a real flat symbol, not B-flat or Big B little b as in my example. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond.html Search on the page for: \flat -sd ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Feature request - extended ties, addendum
Hello Han-Wen, all--
Han-Wen, if you do decide to consider my previously mentioned
feature request (if it seems like a worthy feature and feasible
to you in terms of coding complexity, and worthy of your time
when I'm sure there are many things that vie for your attention),
I guess I ought to add a few comments to what I have already
written about extended or deferred ties (in piano score notation,
for example)--
Using this hypothetical construct:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ g~ } c e g bes4
It would be nice if the block that contains the notes the ties of
which should be extended, were to be able to arbitrarily contain
any of the following in addition to regular notes as shown in the
example above (because all of the following can potentially
appear in piano scores in examples of extended/deferred ties):
* grace notes
* tuples (triplets, etc.)
* chords
So, it would be nice if any of the following were possible:
\relative c' {
\extendTies { \grace { c'16~ g'~ bes~ d~ e~ a~ } }
c,, g' bes d e a4
}
\relative c' {
\extendTies { c8~ g'~ \times 2/3 { bes8~ d~ e~ } }
c, g' bes d e a2
}
\relative c' {
\extendTies { c e8~ g' bes d e a~ }
c, e d' e a2
}
Those are just hypothetical examples for your consideration, of
course. As I mentioned previously, if you consider this a worthy
addition to the already excellent and wonderful tool that
LilyPond is, I am more than happy to pay for the feature, your
time, effort and expertise. I have already received an email from
another LilyPond user who also considers this a useful feature
and is willing to contribute financially as well.
Thank you very much for your attention and consideration, and
thank you for a great product that I am personally very grateful
to be able to use.
Best regards,
Steve Doonan, New Mexico, US (UTC -7)
--- previous backgroud material quoted below ---
--- (please forgive the top-posting ---
Steve D wrote:
Han-Wen, all--
Han-Wen, there is a feature for LilyPond that I would be happy to pay
for you to develop, whatever amount you think would be appropriate.
It is a feature that persons who score for piano would benefit from and
appreciate, so on behalf of myself and future LilyPond users who score
for piano, I would like to suggest the feature and ask what you think.
The feature request involves ties. Normally, a tie only appears for a
note of exactly the same pitch that immediately follows the note with
the tie indicator (~), whether the following note is singular or within
a chord. If the following note in the same voice is not the same pitch,
or the following chord contains no note of the same pitch, the tie does
not appear. Correct?
What would be useful, in piano scoring, is to have a feature to extend a
tie or ties of notes within a block, so that the searching for a note
with the same pitch, to tie to, is deferred until the end of the block.
For example:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ g~ } c e g bes4
which would extend the ties of the 16th notes in the preceding block to
the c , e and g of the following chord. Likewise:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ f g a b c~ } c e c'
would tie the c , e and octave-c of the notes in the block (played with
both hands) to the c , e and octave-c in the following chord. If the
notes that follow the block are not a chord but instead a single note,
then only the note that matches the pitch in the preceding block (and
includes a tie marking, of course) would tie to the note following the
block. Any other notes in the block that have tie markings would be
disregarded.
I'm not sure what other instruments would make use of such notation, but
it is not uncommon to see in piano scores. Here is a webpage that
illustrates the notation, with references to several popular books on
notation that describe this notational convention:
http://www.greschak.com/notation/finale/iwbni/fs711.htm
The feature I am requesting is already possible to implement, but only
by writing some fairly complex-looking notation (temporary multiple
voices with invisible notes (with visible ties) that precisely duplicate
the pitches and horizontal positions of the notes within a primary,
visible single voice on a staff, for example).
Thank you for your time and consideration, and thank you, and Jan, and
all the developers and contributors to this excellent program.
Best wishes,
Steve Doonan, New Mexico, US (-7 UTC)
--- --- ---
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Re: Feature request - extended ties, addendum
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Using this hypothetical construct:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ g~ } c e g bes4
It would be nice if the block that contains the notes the ties of
which should be extended, were to be able to arbitrarily contain
any of the following in addition to regular notes as shown in the
example above (because all of the following can potentially
appear in piano scores in examples of extended/deferred ties):
* grace notes
* tuples (triplets, etc.)
* chords
In current CVS, we have
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
\grace { c16[~ e~ g]~ } c, e g4
By toggling tieWaitForNote where necessary, you can get any of the
things you need.
If there is sufficient interest, I will do a backport to 2.4, once
this code has been tested ok'd.
--- --- ---
Thank you very much Han-Wen. That looks great.
-Steve D
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Feature request - extended ties
Han-Wen, all--
Han-Wen, there is a feature for LilyPond that I would be happy to
pay for you to develop, whatever amount you think would be
appropriate.
It is a feature that persons who score for piano would benefit
from and appreciate, so on behalf of myself and future LilyPond
users who score for piano, I would like to suggest the feature
and ask what you think.
The feature request involves ties. Normally, a tie only appears
for a note of exactly the same pitch that immediately follows the
note with the tie indicator (~), whether the following note is
singular or within a chord. If the following note in the same
voice is not the same pitch, or the following chord contains no
note of the same pitch, the tie does not appear. Correct?
What would be useful, in piano scoring, is to have a feature to
extend a tie or ties of notes within a block, so that the
searching for a note with the same pitch, to tie to, is deferred
until the end of the block. For example:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ g~ } c e g bes4
which would extend the ties of the 16th notes in the preceding
block to the c , e and g of the following chord. Likewise:
\extendTies { c16~ e~ f g a b c~ } c e c'
would tie the c , e and octave-c of the notes in the block
(played with both hands) to the c , e and octave-c in the
following chord. If the notes that follow the block are not a
chord but instead a single note, then only the note that matches
the pitch in the preceding block (and includes a tie marking, of
course) would tie to the note following the block. Any other
notes in the block that have tie markings would be disregarded.
I'm not sure what other instruments would make use of such
notation, but it is not uncommon to see in piano scores. Here is
a webpage that illustrates the notation, with references to
several popular books on notation that describe this notational
convention:
http://www.greschak.com/notation/finale/iwbni/fs711.htm
The feature I am requesting is already possible to implement, but
only by writing some fairly complex-looking notation (temporary
multiple voices with invisible notes (with visible ties) that
precisely duplicate the pitches and horizontal positions of the
notes within a primary, visible single voice on a staff, for
example).
Thank you for your time and consideration, and thank you, and
Jan, and all the developers and contributors to this excellent
program.
Best wishes,
Steve Doonan, New Mexico, US (-7 UTC)
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email list rules and guidelines, attachments?
Regarding lilypond-user, are there guidelines for posting, whether attachments are allowed, what kind of attachments are allowed, etc.? In searching the archives I found that PNG images were at one time discouraged (during the first quarter of 2004). If PNG or GIF images are now allowed (to illustrate notation problems/solutions), must they not exceed a certain filesize? Should they be attached inline or as an attachment (would that be Base64-encoded MIME?) in one's email program. I recently solved one of my own notation problems and wished to attach a PNG image as well as include an annotated excerpt from the .ly file to illustrate how I solved the problem. Although I could upload a PNG to my own webspace and provide a link, that may not be as permanent for the email list archives since my webspace and its contents may change. Thank you, Steve D, NM US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
first small LilyPond score
I finished my first small score today (a four-page piano piece). LilyPond is a great program. This has been an interesting and challenging learning experience. The last two bars of the piece took almost as long as the entire rest of the work, but I finally figured out one way to solve the problem I mentioned recently: placing ties from a fully notated, written-out arpeggio to a following chord. Thank you Maurizio Tomasi for pointing me to: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2004-11/msg00465.html The score, in .PDF format, is here if anyone has any curiosity about it: http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/ (It's a piece I wrote way back in my early 20s that I chose because I thought it would be fairly simple to notate (except for those problematic final two bars!)) -Steve D, NM US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Newbie and Documentation
New users of any particular product often encounter or discover difficulties or obstacles that more experienced users have gone past and forgotten. As a new user of LilyPond, I would like to report or comment on difficulties I encounter with the documentation for the sake of the documentation editor and for other newbies who follow and consult the mailing list archives. Should I address such comments to the lilypond-user or the lilypond-devel email list? Thank you, Steve D, NM US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Grace notes, ties, optimum notation
David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Steve D wrote: I have recently begun to learn LilyPond, which is an exceptionally nice program, though I have a tremendous amount to learn about it. I would like to ask if anyone might have a suggestion how better to notate the last measure of the piano piece linked to below http://www.xscd.com/pics/lilypond-example.PNG I don't know about better, but you could write the grace notes in sequence and tie each to its note in the chord. daveA --- --- --- Thank you for the reply, David. Your suggestion is what I originally wanted to do. It would look a lot cleaner, less confusing. I simply wanted to write the grace notes, and have each one tied to the same note in the chord. But as a new user of LilyPond I couldn't find a way to accomplish that. Might you have a suggestion as to what features of LilyPond I might study in order to accomplish this? Thank you, Steve D, NM US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: quarter note triplets just don't want to behave properly
Chip wrote:
I am having a heck of a time with quarter note triplets. 1/8th note
triplets work fine. Here is the code I am using -
\times 2/3 {r4 cs'[ cs] cs[ c b]}
What am I doing wrong with the 1/4 note triplets?
--
Chip
--- ---
I'm just a beginner with LilyPond, but it looks like you are trying to
beam quarter notes (with the square brackets []). That would make them
eighth notes, which is not correct and gives an error when the music
expression is interpreted, right?
Three quarter notes in the space of two are still notated as quarter
notes. There would have to be 5 or more notes in the place of two
quarter notes for them to be notated as eighth notes, right?
Best wishes,
Steve D, NM US
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Re: Grace notes, ties, optimum notation
Steve D wrote: I have recently begun to learn LilyPond, which is an exceptionally nice program, though I have a tremendous amount to learn about it. I would like to ask if anyone might have a suggestion how better to notate the last measure of the piano piece linked to below (it is a screen capture of LilyPond's PDF output of the piece). The last chord of the piece is arpeggiated, but not in exact sequence of notes from bottom to top: one note (the F second to top) is out of order. http://www.xscd.com/pics/lilypond-example.PNG --- --- I found an example on the Internet of the type of ties I would ideally like to use in a piano score, mentioned above, extending from the notes of an ascending arpeggiated figure to the same notes of a following chord: http://www.greschak.com/notation/finale/iwbni/fs711.htm Does anyone know if there is a fairly straightforward way to do this using LilyPond? Thank you, and best wishes, Steve D, NM US ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Grace notes, ties, optimum notation
I have recently begun to learn LilyPond, which is an exceptionally nice program, though I have a tremendous amount to learn about it. I would like to ask if anyone might have a suggestion how better to notate the last measure of the piano piece linked to below (it is a screen capture of LilyPond's PDF output of the piece). The last chord of the piece is arpeggiated, but not in exact sequence of notes from bottom to top: one note (the F second to top) is out of order. Link to .png image of .pdf output of lilypond: http://www.xscd.com/pics/lilypond-example.PNG Thank you, and best wishes, Steve D, New Mexico US P.S. Should I have attached the .png image instead, for the sake of the archives? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
