Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
Sorry for the long quoted text.
On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:59:07PM +0100, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
James Bailey wrote:
This is basically what confuses people. No, it's not any different
than what's explained elsewhere, it's just that it's not explained all
together. All of the consituent pieces are explained, but nowhere is
really explained that this is how to have a short section of polyphony
when lyrics are present. I think we can leave the LSR examples if
lyrics need to be placed above the staff (for a descant, or some such).
\version 2.12.3
vocals = \relative {
c4 d e f
{
\voiceOne
g2 g
}\new Voice {
\voiceTwo
f4( e) e( d)
}
\oneVoice
c1
}
textAll = \lyricmode { This is some text that goes here }
\score {
\new Staff \new Voice = vocals \vocals
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vocals \textAll
}
The main point of confusion is that you cannot do what seems most
intuitive, namely to use the \\ construct. You will never be able
to make this point in the manual, unless you also include an example of
what does not work. I was convinced that I had seen such an example
somewhere in the documentation, but cannot find it right now.
Here's a version of James' example that does not do what most users
intuitively would expect.
\version 2.12.3
vocals = \relative {
c4 d e f
{ g2 g } \\ { f4( e) e( d) }
c1
}
textAll = \lyricmode { This is some text that goes here }
\score {
\new Staff \new Voice = vocals \vocals
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vocals \textAll
}
Note also that this problem must be pointed out both when talking about
the \\ construct and when talking about \lyricsto.
Ok. Could somebody make up a patch that adds Mats' example, then
James' example, into a **new** node in the LM, immediately after
Voice and Vocals? Call it something like... err... well, come up
with some witty name to do with voices not working, or lyrics not
printed, or whatever.
That way, if the \\ construct gets fixed, we can easily
remove that portion.
Cheers,
- Graham
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
Mats Bengtsson mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se writes: Xavier Scheuer wrote: There used to be a warning that said voices in a \\ structure are different from voices outside and thus forbid slurs, hairpins, ... to continue from voice outside the strucure to a voice inside. But I must admit I couldn't find that warning again in the doc. Hint: Look in the Learning manual. Maybe one should be able to declare one of the inner voices as \mainVoice and have it take the identity of the enclosing voice. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
oh, and stop lilyponding, and rest and get better. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
James Bailey wrote:
On 01.03.2010, at 14:28, Graham Percival wrote:
On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 01:03:02PM +0100, James Bailey wrote:
On 01.03.2010, at 12:11, Graham Percival wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 201Thanks for the offer, but isn't this exactly the
second example from
the bottom in LM 3.2.3 Voices and vocals ?
Yes and no. Yes, the judas maccabeus example does exactly what's
discussed here, single-staff polyphony with lyrics, but it's not really
clear that single-staff polyphony is at work here, and definitely
doesn't
show the usage of a short section of single staff polyphony. If need
be,
I can whip something super-simple up.
Sorry, I'm not following this at all. Please make up an example,
and explain why it's different/better than the current thing.
Note that I never use polyphony or lyrics, and have a fever, so
I'll either need a very simple explanation or have another
developer take over this discussion from me.
Cheers,
- Graham
This is basically what confuses people. No, it's not any different
than what's explained elsewhere, it's just that it's not explained all
together. All of the consituent pieces are explained, but nowhere is
really explained that this is how to have a short section of polyphony
when lyrics are present. I think we can leave the LSR examples if
lyrics need to be placed above the staff (for a descant, or some such).
\version 2.12.3
vocals = \relative {
c4 d e f
{
\voiceOne
g2 g
}\new Voice {
\voiceTwo
f4( e) e( d)
}
\oneVoice
c1
}
textAll = \lyricmode { This is some text that goes here }
\score {
\new Staff \new Voice = vocals \vocals
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vocals \textAll
}
The main point of confusion is that you cannot do what seems most
intuitive, namely to use the \\ construct. You will never be able
to make this point in the manual, unless you also include an example of
what does not work. I was convinced that I had seen such an example
somewhere in the documentation, but cannot find it right now.
Here's a version of James' example that does not do what most users
intuitively would expect.
\version 2.12.3
vocals = \relative {
c4 d e f
{ g2 g } \\ { f4( e) e( d) }
c1
}
textAll = \lyricmode { This is some text that goes here }
\score {
\new Staff \new Voice = vocals \vocals
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vocals \textAll
}
Note also that this problem must be pointed out both when talking about
the \\ construct and when talking about \lyricsto.
/Mats
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=
Mats Bengtsson
Signal Processing
School of Electrical Engineering
Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se
WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
Mats Bengtsson wrote Monday, March 01, 2010 2:59 PM The main point of confusion is that you cannot do what seems most intuitive, namely to use the \\ construct. You will never be able to make this point in the manual, unless you also include an example of what does not work. I was convinced that I had seen such an example somewhere in the documentation, but cannot find it right now. You may be thinking of 5.1.3 in the Notation Reference, which shows a similar situation but where the point being made is how to keep contexts alive when the melody line is silent for a few bars. Although even here there is no example of a construct that does not work. Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
Trevor Daniels wrote: Mats Bengtsson wrote Monday, March 01, 2010 2:59 PM The main point of confusion is that you cannot do what seems most intuitive, namely to use the \\ construct. You will never be able to make this point in the manual, unless you also include an example of what does not work. I was convinced that I had seen such an example somewhere in the documentation, but cannot find it right now. You may be thinking of 5.1.3 in the Notation Reference, which shows a similar situation but where the point being made is how to keep contexts alive when the melody line is silent for a few bars. Probably! Although even here there is no example of a construct that does not work. It's my experience based on a number of years of teaching, that in situations like this one where the most intuitive approach does not work, it's far from enough to tell how to do it the right way, you also have to show why the intuitive approach does not work, preferably even by letting the student do the mistake himself first. There's still the risk that a few readers don't get the point and stick to the first (i.e. the erroneous) approach, but then they at least have been to the relevant page of the manual when doing it and is more likely to find their way back to the relevant information once they discover the problem. /Mats Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- = Mats Bengtsson Signal Processing School of Electrical Engineering Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM Sweden Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260 Email: mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe = ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
See the thread here. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/
2009-02/msg00877.html
On 28.02.2010, at 22:46, Alberto Simões wrote:
Hello
I have a music where in some places the voice splits, like:
{ g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
I was trying to make lyrics align with the top voice of these splits.
I tried to use:
{ \voiceOne g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
but it is not working.
I think I asked this before, but I can't find any similar thing in all
my musics. So, sorry to (probably) repeat the question.
Cheers
Alberto
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
2010/2/28 Alberto Simões al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt:
Hello
I have a music where in some places the voice splits, like:
{ g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
I was trying to make lyrics align with the top voice of these splits.
I tried to use:
{ \voiceOne g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
Hi,
Voices in a { ... } \\ { ... } structure are both different than
voices outside that structure.
You should either name you main, outside Voice 1 (because in the
{ ... } \\ { ... } structure first Voice is called 1,
second 2 and so on...).
Either use explicit instantiated Voices, like this :
{ \voiceOne g2 ~ g8 }
\new Voice = blabla { \voiceTwo s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
\oneVoice
The first { ... } that appears in a ... with instanciated Voices
(i.e. without \\) is considered as the continuation as the main
Voice outside the ... structure.
Hope it is clear,
Xavier
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
Alberto == Alberto Simões al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt writes:
Alberto Hello I have a music where in some places the voice splits,
Alberto like:
Alberto { g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
Alberto I was trying to make lyrics align with the top voice of these
Alberto splits. I tried to use:
You need to tell LilyPond which voice is which.
The \\ construct creates two new voices, neither of which is aligned
with your lyrics. What you probably want is something like this:
\context Voice = tune { a b c
\context Voice = tune { \voiceOne g2 ~ g8 }
\context Voice = alternate { \voiceTwo s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
\oneVoice a b c
}
\lyricsto tune \theWords
Grahame, this is such a FAQ thaqt we either need to add a section to
the LM in `voices and vocals', or modify the `I'm hearing voices'
section, or add an explicit `implicit voice instantiation with vocals'
section. Or some other solution?
If you tell me which you'd prefer I'll try to whip yup a patch this week.
--
Dr Peter Chubb peter DOT chubb AT nicta.com.au
http://www.ertos.nicta.com.au ERTOS within National ICT Australia
All things shall perish from under the sky/Music alone shall live, never to die
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
No worries. clearly you use this once a year. I just happen to have
all my emails easily searchable. If it makes you feel any better,
there was a more recent thread about this on the only 3 weeks ago.
You're not the only one.
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2010-02/msg00289.html
On 28.02.2010, at 22:58, Alberto Simões wrote:
/me blushes.
Thank you!
On 28/02/2010 21:59, James Bailey wrote:
See the thread
here. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-02/
msg00877.html
On 28.02.2010, at 22:46, Alberto Simões wrote:
Hello
I have a music where in some places the voice splits, like:
{ g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
I was trying to make lyrics align with the top voice of these
splits.
I tried to use:
{ \voiceOne g2 ~ g8 } \\ { s8 e8[ dis d] cis }
but it is not working.
I think I asked this before, but I can't find any similar thing
in all
my musics. So, sorry to (probably) repeat the question.
Cheers
Alberto
--
Alberto Simões
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Alberto Simões
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Re: Lyrics across multi-voice sections
2010/2/28 Peter Chubb lily.u...@chubb.wattle.id.au:
Grahame, this is such a FAQ thaqt we either need to add a section to
the LM in `voices and vocals', or modify the `I'm hearing voices'
section, or add an explicit `implicit voice instantiation with vocals'
section. Or some other solution?
Or wait that Kieren (or another lily dev) change the \\ construct
so that it behave like a shortcut for
% mainVoice
{ ... } % continuation of the main voice
\new Voice = mainVoiceName2 { % the name of the voice is a
personal suggestion
...
}
\oneVoice
;-)
There used to be a warning that said voices in a \\ structure
are different from voices outside and thus forbid slurs, hairpins, ...
to continue from voice outside the strucure to a voice inside.
But I must admit I couldn't find that warning again in the doc.
Cheers,
Xavier
--
Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com
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