Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[David Wright]

On Fri 08 Mar 2019 at 17:45:00 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> Hi
> Lilypond allows you to get the notations for the real music.

Does it? When I hear real music (J) and want a score (S), I either
transcribe it into LilyPond (L) by hand, or look for a printed score
from a publisher, or look at sources like IMSLP or CPDL for a download.

> I was thinking of a new feature for users -
> Allowing them to create a new music.

That's what I call composition, but somehow I don't think that's what
you're talking about. "New music" isn't in my list of definitions so
you need to define what you mean by it.

> With notations, it would be new and innovative way, which can catch
> everyone's attention.

That statement doesn't say whether the notations (again, not in my list)
are new or the music is new, nor what you mean by "new".

> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 11:59 PM Urs Liska  wrote:
> > Am 7. März 2019 16:54:33 MEZ schrieb David Wright 
> > :
> > >On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> > >> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get
> > >notations.
> > >> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real
> > >music as
> > >> output.
> > >> Like we give 2 options-
> > >> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
> > >> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to
> > >enter and
> > >> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.
> > >
> > >I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
> > >So far we have:
> > >
> > >MIDI files
> > >notations (stored)
> > >real music
> > >music
> > >notation (given) to enter to something
> > >translations of notations (stored)
> > >audio
> > >lyrics
> > >suggestions of notations (popping up)
> > >
> > >I understand the following:
> > >
> > >M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
> > >L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly
> > >P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly
> > >(leaving aside binaries)
> > >S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the
> > >same
> > >J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3
> > >player
> > >G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various
> > >devices
> > >
> > >LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
> > >Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
> > >midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.
> > >
> > >I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
> > >program's version of L, say, a .sib file.
> >
> > More generally: from scanned sheet music to MusicXML, from which it can be
> > converted to LilyPond source files. Both steps need manual proofreading.

I'm happy with the proofreading: I can proofread by ear (using process
S→(software)→XML→L→M) much more easily than I can type from S→L. But
I don't know of any FOSS programs to fill that (software) slot.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Akshita,

I have no idea what unreal music could be. Do you mean ‘user self-defined 
notations’? Unless you supply an example of what you’re after, this discussion 
will remain aimless and useless.

JM

> Le 8 mars 2019 à 14:41, m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl a écrit :
> 
> As mentioned before please don't use the terms "notations" and "real music". 
> It's not clear what you exactly mean to discuss.
> 
> MT
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon
> 
> 
> ---- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----
> Onderwerp: Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)
> Van: AKSHITA TYAGI 
> Aan: Urs Liska 
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> 
> 
> Hi
> Lilypond allows you to get the notations for the real music.
>  I was thinking of a new feature for users -
> Allowing them to create a new music.
> With notations, it would be new and innovative way, which can catch 
> everyone's attention.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 11:59 PM Urs Liska  <mailto:li...@openlilylib.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 7. März 2019 16:54:33 MEZ schrieb David Wright  <mailto:lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk>>:
> >On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> >> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get
> >notations.
> >> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real
> >music as
> >> output.
> >> Like we give 2 options-
> >> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
> >> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to
> >enter and
> >> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.
> >
> >I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
> >So far we have:
> >
> >MIDI files
> >notations (stored)
> >real music
> >music
> >notation (given) to enter to something
> >translations of notations (stored)
> >audio
> >lyrics
> >suggestions of notations (popping up)
> >
> >I understand the following:
> >
> >M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
> >L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly <http://foo.ly/>
> >P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly 
> ><http://bar.ly/>
> >(leaving aside binaries)
> >S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the
> >same
> >J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3
> >player
> >G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various
> >devices
> >
> >LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
> >Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
> >midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.
> >
> >I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
> >program's version of L, say, a .sib file.
> 
> More generally: from scanned sheet music to MusicXML, from which it can be 
> converted to LilyPond source files. Both steps need manual proofreading.
> 
> Urs
> 
> >
> >Given those terms, I can't quite figure out what's being discussed
> >here.
> >
> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High  >> <mailto:karlinh...@gmail.com>>
> >wrote:
> >> 
> >> > If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the
> >sender,
> >> > the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
> >> > lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org> as a TO or CC 
> >> > address in future messages. A
> >GSoC
> >> > discussion requires input from others besides me.
> >> >
> >> > On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> >> > > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get
> >music as
> >> > > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can
> >create a new
> >> > > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
> >> > > complicated but worth trying I think.
> >> > > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display
> >it is
> >> > > translated to both audio and lyrics.
> >> > > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
> >> > > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the
> >library.
> >> > > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that
> >are found
> >> > > of music.
> >> >
> >> > The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the
> >MIDI
> >> > files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature
> >for
> >> > translating to real music be something like that?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >David.
> >
> >___
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> >lilypond-user@gnu.org <mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user 
> ><https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user>
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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl]

As mentioned before please don't use the terms "notations" and "real music". It's not clear what you exactly mean to discuss.MTVerzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon Oorspronkelijk bericht ----Onderwerp: Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)Van: AKSHITA TYAGI Aan: Urs Liska Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.orgHiLilypond allows you to get the notations for the real music. I was thinking of a new feature for users -Allowing them to create a new music.With notations, it would be new and innovative way, which can catch everyone's attention.On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 11:59 PM Urs Liska <li...@openlilylib.org> wrote:

Am 7. März 2019 16:54:33 MEZ schrieb David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk>:
>On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
>> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get
>notations.
>> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real
>music as
>> output.
>> Like we give 2 options-
>> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
>> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to
>enter and
>> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.
>
>I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
>So far we have:
>
>MIDI files
>notations (stored)
>real music
>music
>notation (given) to enter to something
>translations of notations (stored)
>audio
>lyrics
>suggestions of notations (popping up)
>
>I understand the following:
>
>M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
>L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly
>P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly
>                        (leaving aside binaries)
>S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the
>same
>J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3
>player
>G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various
>devices
>
>LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
>Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
>midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.
>
>I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
>program's version of L, say, a .sib file.

More generally: from scanned sheet music to MusicXML, from which it can be converted to LilyPond source files. Both steps need manual proofreading.

Urs

>
>Given those terms, I can't quite figure out what's being discussed
>here.
>
>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High <karlinh...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> 
>> > If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the
>sender,
>> > the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
>> > lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A
>GSoC
>> > discussion requires input from others besides me.
>> >
>> > On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
>> > > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get
>music as
>> > > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can
>create a new
>> > > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
>> > > complicated but worth trying I think.
>> > > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display
>it is
>> > > translated to both audio and lyrics.
>> > > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
>> > > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the
>library.
>> > > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that
>are found
>> > > of music.
>> >
>> > The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the
>MIDI
>> > files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature
>for
>> > translating to real music be something like that?
>
>Cheers,
>David.
>
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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[AKSHITA TYAGI]

Hi
Lilypond allows you to get the notations for the real music.
 I was thinking of a new feature for users -
Allowing them to create a new music.
With notations, it would be new and innovative way, which can catch
everyone's attention.


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 11:59 PM Urs Liska  wrote:

>
>
> Am 7. März 2019 16:54:33 MEZ schrieb David Wright <
> lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk>:
> >On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> >> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get
> >notations.
> >> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real
> >music as
> >> output.
> >> Like we give 2 options-
> >> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
> >> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to
> >enter and
> >> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.
> >
> >I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
> >So far we have:
> >
> >MIDI files
> >notations (stored)
> >real music
> >music
> >notation (given) to enter to something
> >translations of notations (stored)
> >audio
> >lyrics
> >suggestions of notations (popping up)
> >
> >I understand the following:
> >
> >M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
> >L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly
> >P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly
> >(leaving aside binaries)
> >S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the
> >same
> >J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3
> >player
> >G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various
> >devices
> >
> >LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
> >Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
> >midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.
> >
> >I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
> >program's version of L, say, a .sib file.
>
> More generally: from scanned sheet music to MusicXML, from which it can be
> converted to LilyPond source files. Both steps need manual proofreading.
>
> Urs
>
> >
> >Given those terms, I can't quite figure out what's being discussed
> >here.
> >
> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High 
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the
> >sender,
> >> > the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
> >> > lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A
> >GSoC
> >> > discussion requires input from others besides me.
> >> >
> >> > On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> >> > > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get
> >music as
> >> > > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can
> >create a new
> >> > > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
> >> > > complicated but worth trying I think.
> >> > > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display
> >it is
> >> > > translated to both audio and lyrics.
> >> > > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
> >> > > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the
> >library.
> >> > > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that
> >are found
> >> > > of music.
> >> >
> >> > The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the
> >MIDI
> >> > files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature
> >for
> >> > translating to real music be something like that?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >David.
> >
> >___
> >lilypond-user mailing list
> >lilypond-user@gnu.org
> >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[Urs Liska]

Am 7. März 2019 16:54:33 MEZ schrieb David Wright :
>On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
>> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get
>notations.
>> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real
>music as
>> output.
>> Like we give 2 options-
>> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
>> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to
>enter and
>> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.
>
>I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
>So far we have:
>
>MIDI files
>notations (stored)
>real music
>music
>notation (given) to enter to something
>translations of notations (stored)
>audio
>lyrics
>suggestions of notations (popping up)
>
>I understand the following:
>
>M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
>L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly
>P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly
>(leaving aside binaries)
>S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the
>same
>J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3
>player
>G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various
>devices
>
>LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
>Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
>midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.
>
>I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
>program's version of L, say, a .sib file.

More generally: from scanned sheet music to MusicXML, from which it can be 
converted to LilyPond source files. Both steps need manual proofreading.

Urs

>
>Given those terms, I can't quite figure out what's being discussed
>here.
>
>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High 
>wrote:
>> 
>> > If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the
>sender,
>> > the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
>> > lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A
>GSoC
>> > discussion requires input from others besides me.
>> >
>> > On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
>> > > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get
>music as
>> > > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can
>create a new
>> > > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
>> > > complicated but worth trying I think.
>> > > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display
>it is
>> > > translated to both audio and lyrics.
>> > > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
>> > > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the
>library.
>> > > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that
>are found
>> > > of music.
>> >
>> > The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the
>MIDI
>> > files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature
>for
>> > translating to real music be something like that?
>
>Cheers,
>David.
>
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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[David Wright]

On Thu 07 Mar 2019 at 19:32:27 (+0530), AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get notations.
> But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real music as
> output.
> Like we give 2 options-
> 1.music to notations (the usual one)
> 2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to enter and
> he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.

I'm getting very confused by the terminology in this thread.
So far we have:

MIDI files
notations (stored)
real music
music
notation (given) to enter to something
translations of notations (stored)
audio
lyrics
suggestions of notations (popping up)

I understand the following:

M) MIDI files with the filename foo.mid or foo.midi
L) LilyPond source with the filename foo.ly
P) LilyPond program source with filenames like foo.scm and bar.ly
(leaving aside binaries)
S) Scores, varying from a Bach manuscript to printed editions of the same
J) Real music which I hear in the concert hall or off the radio/MP3 player
G) Synthesised music which I hear when I play MIDI files on various devices

LilyPond can do L→S and L→M using various fragments of P.
Frescobaldi does much the same, displaying L and S on the screen.
midi2ly does M→basic L, and I've tried Rosegarden for this too.

I think programs exist that can turn a scanned S into a proprietary
program's version of L, say, a .sib file.

Given those terms, I can't quite figure out what's being discussed here.

> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High  wrote:
> 
> > If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the sender,
> > the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
> > lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A GSoC
> > discussion requires input from others besides me.
> >
> > On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> > > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get music as
> > > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can create a new
> > > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
> > > complicated but worth trying I think.
> > > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display it is
> > > translated to both audio and lyrics.
> > > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
> > > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the library.
> > > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that are found
> > > of music.
> >
> > The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the MIDI
> > files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature for
> > translating to real music be something like that?

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[AKSHITA TYAGI]

I mean like there are files in MIDI and for that we can get notations.
But we can also use those stored notations as input and get real music as
output.
Like we give 2 options-
1.music to notations (the usual one)
2.notations to music- In which we can give user the notations to enter and
he/she will get to listen to the music generated by those notations.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 5:20 PM Karlin High  wrote:

> If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the sender,
> the rest of the list will not see them. Please include
> lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A GSoC
> discussion requires input from others besides me.
>
> On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
> > Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get music as
> > output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can create a new
> > library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit
> > complicated but worth trying I think.
> > Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display it is
> > translated to both audio and lyrics.
> > And pop up with suggestions of notations.
> > And for more languages we can add on more languages in the library.
> > Because India and China are one of the top most countries that are found
> > of music.
>
> The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the MIDI
> files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature for
> translating to real music be something like that?
> --
> Karlin High
> Missouri, USA
>
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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[Karlin High]

If replies to lilypond-user messages are only addressed to the sender, 
the rest of the list will not see them. Please include 
lilypond-user@gnu.org as a TO or CC address in future messages. A GSoC 
discussion requires input from others besides me.


On 3/7/2019 3:42 AM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
Translating to real music- like we input the notations and get music as 
output. For that maybe we can reverse the program or we can create a new 
library which stores the translation of the notations maybe a bit 
complicated but worth trying I think.
Maybe we can add more features and make it look better as display it is 
translated to both audio and lyrics.

And pop up with suggestions of notations.
And for more languages we can add on more languages in the library. 
Because India and China are one of the top most countries that are found 
of music.


The Frescobaldi editor for LilyPond has a MIDI player. It plays the MIDI 
files made by LilyPond for the given notation. Would your feature for 
translating to real music be something like that?

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Discussion about Lilypond(for GSoC 2019 project)

[Karlin High]

On 3/6/2019 12:02 PM, AKSHITA TYAGI wrote:
What I think is that it should work on more languages. Like India, 
Chinese etc these are the countries that are really found of music and 
use of Lilypond would increase if it is available in more languages.


More translations sounds like a welcome effort. There is already one 
listed for Chinese.  But I am not 
aware of anything currently being done for any of India's languages.


I am thinking that a translation project also needs ongoing maintenance 
work, as new material gets added to LilyPond. A GSoC project would be 
just a starting point.


And it will be fun to see musical notations to music. like one form 
his/her own notations on Lilypond and it is translated to real music.

Please let me know what you think about the ideas.


LilyPond currently has MIDI output, which other tools can convert to 
audio or even video formats. "Translating to real music" - can you 
further explain what result you want to have?


For other kinds of Asian notation, LilyPond has seen some work for 
Chinese Jianpu notation, and a request for Bengali Swaralipi is 
currently "shelved" for lack of resources.




--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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