Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Simon Albrecht 

On 29.01.2017 13:38, Robert Blackstone wrote:

My problem with your advice "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur 
is_started_, not when it already had ended." was : How does a beginner know what is 
the right moment?


You’ve got a point there, that was kind of ‘Lily-speak’. ‘moment’ means 
a musical moment, or timestep, and not a position in the source code. 
All of the events in { c4^(--_"foo" } happen at the same moment.


\slurUp is an override and thus a music expression of its own. It could 
be turned into a tweak using \single, which makes the following 
possible: { c4-\single\slurUp ( } However, that would be a quite lengthy 
version of { c4^( }.


HTH, Simon

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread David Kastrup 
Robert Blackstone  writes:

> Hi Richard,
>
> Thanks for your clarification. 
> My problem is: How does one know at which moment something, for
> example a slur, or the call for the grob "slur", is started? A case in
> point is \arpeggio. Naively one may think this command has to be
> placed before the notes, not after. Wrong! No idea why.
> I realise that my intuition is sometimes correct, or that up till now
> I've just got away with my mistakes.

When everything else fails, reading the manual might help.  And when
reading the manual doesn't help (the Learning Manual would likely be the
first thing to look at), complaining on the lists about where you would
have expected this information to be found might eventually help others
facing the same problem: namely when the manuals get corrected.

I have to admit that the manuals describe the constituents of a note
(pitch, duration, expressive marks) in isolation, and they describe how
more complex expressions are assembled using simultaneous and sequential
music expressions and contexts into an overall score.  But exactly what
combines into a single music expression that can then arranged in
simultaneous/sequential music: there is a noticeable dearth on that
information.

> Maybe rules, general and/or specific, concerning the placement of
> commands, like \override and \tweak, can be found somewhere in the
> documentation, but so far I have not seen any.

For \tweak, this is better than for \override.  \slurUp falls into the
class of \override.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Robert Blackstone 
Hi Richard,

Thanks for your clarification. 
My problem is: How does one know at which moment something, for example a slur, 
or the call for the grob "slur",  is started? A case in point is \arpeggio. 
Naively one may think this command has to be placed before the notes, not 
after. Wrong! No idea why.
I realise that my intuition is sometimes correct, or that up till now I've just 
got away with my mistakes.

Maybe rules, general and/or specific, concerning the placement of commands, 
like \override and \tweak, can be found somewhere in the documentation, but so 
far I have not seen any.

Best regards,

Robert

 
On 29 Jan 2017, at 12:13 , Richard Shann  wrote:

> On Sun, 2017-01-29 at 11:57 +0100, Robert Blackstone wrote:
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> 
>> Ref.: "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not
>> when it already had ended." That sounds perfectly logical but
> 
> I think you may not be aware that the word "moment" here is being used
> as a LilyPond-specific technical term - meaning something like "the
> particular time in the course of the music". As David explains it does
> not specify a place in the syntax, but the place you choose must be at
> the correct "moment" (? and syntactically earlier?).
> 
> Richard
> corrections to my understanding welcome!
> 
> 


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Robert Blackstone 
Hi David,

Thanks for your reply (and your admonition to read more carefully next time(s)).

My problem with your advice "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is 
_started_, not when it already had ended." was : How does a beginner know what 
is the right moment? 

Apparently for this event it is at the very beginning of a new bar, before any 
note, stem, beam or slur has been called. And it will be inherited in the 
following bars.
Good to know. I hadn't realized that.

Of course I fully agree with your concluding remark. Unfortunately there are 
sometimes way too many sentences to be read for a real understanding ...  
Thanks again,
Robert


On 29 Jan 2017, at 12:06 , David Kastrup  wrote:

> Robert Blackstone  writes:
> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> Ref.: "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not
>> when it already had ended." That sounds perfectly logical but when I
>> place \slurUp before the ( or \( I get the error message "error:
>> syntax error, unexpected EVENT_IDENTIFIER" No idea why.
> 
> "At the moment a slur is started" is not the same as "square in the
> middle of the musical expression when a moment is started".
> 
> And it's not like I have not explicitly explained it:
> 
>>> You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not when it
>>> already had ended.
>>> 
>>> In this case this means either writing \slurUp/\phrasingSlurUp together
>>> with the respective \stemUp (usually all of those would rather be \once
>>> \whateverUp ).
> 
> Sometimes it pays to read more than one sentence.  But if people did
> that, our political landscape would likely be different.  Which does not
> need to be a bad thing.
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Richard Shann 
On Sun, 2017-01-29 at 11:57 +0100, Robert Blackstone wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> 
> Ref.: "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not
> when it already had ended." That sounds perfectly logical but

I think you may not be aware that the word "moment" here is being used
as a LilyPond-specific technical term - meaning something like "the
particular time in the course of the music". As David explains it does
not specify a place in the syntax, but the place you choose must be at
the correct "moment" (? and syntactically earlier?).

Richard
corrections to my understanding welcome!



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread David Kastrup 
Robert Blackstone  writes:

> Hi David,
>
> Ref.: "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not
> when it already had ended." That sounds perfectly logical but when I
> place \slurUp before the ( or \( I get the error message "error:
> syntax error, unexpected EVENT_IDENTIFIER" No idea why.

"At the moment a slur is started" is not the same as "square in the
middle of the musical expression when a moment is started".

And it's not like I have not explicitly explained it:

>> You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not when it
>> already had ended.
>> 
>> In this case this means either writing \slurUp/\phrasingSlurUp together
>> with the respective \stemUp (usually all of those would rather be \once
>> \whateverUp ).

Sometimes it pays to read more than one sentence.  But if people did
that, our political landscape would likely be different.  Which does not
need to be a bad thing.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Robert Blackstone 
Hi David,

Ref.: "You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not when it 
already had ended." That sounds perfectly logical but when I place \slurUp 
before the ( or \( I get the error message "error: syntax error, unexpected 
EVENT_IDENTIFIER" No idea why.

But your advice is very helpful. Thanks in particular for \once \whateverUp. It 
will  save me a lot of typing. 

Best regards,

Robert Blackstone

On 29 Jan 2017, at 10:47 , David Kastrup  wrote:

> Robert Blackstone  writes:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> In some passages like the one shown in the ME the composer (long dead)
>> wants a slur positioned above the beam.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> {\clef "treble" \key b \minor \time 3/8
>> \stemUp 8  ( [ g''8 ) \slurUp  8 ] | % 137
>> \stemUp 8  \( [ g''8 \) \phrasingSlurUp  8 ] | % 137
>> }
>> 
>> 
>> As one can see, the usual tools don't work here and I have not been
>> able to find something that does work.
>> 
>> Can anyone help me?
> 
> You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not when it
> already had ended.
> 
> In this case this means either writing \slurUp/\phrasingSlurUp together
> with the respective \stemUp (usually all of those would rather be \once
> \whateverUp ).  Or you just put ^ before the slur in question to make it
> point upwards.
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread David Kastrup 
Robert Blackstone  writes:

> Dear all,
> In some passages like the one shown in the ME the composer (long dead)
> wants a slur positioned above the beam.
>
> 
>
> {\clef "treble" \key b \minor \time 3/8
> \stemUp 8  ( [ g''8 ) \slurUp  8 ] | % 137
> \stemUp 8  \( [ g''8 \) \phrasingSlurUp  8 ] | % 137
> }
> 
>
> As one can see, the usual tools don't work here and I have not been
> able to find something that does work.
>
> Can anyone help me?

You have to use \slurUp at the moment a slur is _started_, not when it
already had ended.

In this case this means either writing \slurUp/\phrasingSlurUp together
with the respective \stemUp (usually all of those would rather be \once
\whateverUp ).  Or you just put ^ before the slur in question to make it
point upwards.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: How to draw a slur above beamed notes with their stems up.

2017-01-29 Thread Andrew Bernard 
Hi Robert:

Would this help?

Andrew

== snip

{
  \clef "treble" \key b \minor \time 3/8
  \stemUp 8^( [ g''8 ) 8 ] | % 137
  \stemUp 8^( [ g''8 ) 8 ] | % 137
}

== snip



On 29 January 2017 at 20:40, Robert Blackstone 
wrote:

> Dear all,
> In some passages like the one shown in the ME the composer (long dead)
> wants a slur positioned above the beam.
>
>
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user