Re: Newbie Question

[Mark Gould]

Hi,

A reboot seemed to fix my issue... I have a working LilyPond now - so time to 
do some reading of the manuals!

Mark

Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Mats Bengtsson]

Tim Rowe wrote:


My case is like:

chorus = \relative c' {
  c4 d e f |
  g a b
}

verse = \relative c'' {
  \partial 4 c4 |
  d e d c |
}

\new Staff {
  \new Voice = "mel" { \chorus }  \new Voice = "vs" {\verse}
}

So actually
\bar "|"
does just what I needed all along!
  
Excellent, then it was a simple problem to solve. Just remember to 
remove the \partial command that is no longer needed.


/Mats


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Capo Chords (was: Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus)

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/12 Carl D. Sorensen :

> To do this on double rows is not too hard.  I made it easier by developing a
> parenthesizeAll function.
>
> (I haven't put in the instrument name or the instrument_name_engraver that
> was in the archives, but I think you can do that).
>
> parenthesizeAll =
> #(define-music-function (parser loc myMusic) (ly:music?)
>  (music-map
>    (lambda (ev)
>      (if (or (memq 'note-event (ly:music-property ev 'types))
>              (memq 'rest-event (ly:music-property ev 'types)))
>          (set! (ly:music-property ev 'parenthesize) #t))
>      ev)
>    myMusic)
>  myMusic)
>
>
> mychords = \chordmode {
>  c1 g1 c1
> }
>
> <<
>  \new ChordNames {
>    \mychords
>  }
>  \new ChordNames {
>    \parenthesizeAll
>      \transpose c a {\mychords}
>  }

That's useful -- I'd prefer side-by-side, but two rows will have to
do, it seems.

> So I think the best way to go is to just mess with the chordNames function.
> If I recall correctly, in the last year or so somebody posted on the list a
> transposition function for chord names.  You might be able to make that work
> and to create a new chord name creation function that would create the chord
> name, transpose it, and then combine the two with the second one in
> parentheses.  This would require Scheme knowledge.

That was how I thought it would be done. Well, I'd already added
"Learn Scheme" to my to-do list!

> P.S.  It's generally a good idea to start a new thread when you change the
> topic; it helps in archive searches later.

I wasn't really expecting a reply (your helpfulness has exceded my
expectations!) but topic drift happens often enough on mailing lists
for it to be easily fixable ;-)


-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Carl D. Sorensen]

On 5/12/09 4:44 AM, "Tim Rowe"  wrote:

> 
> Now on to my next exercise -- working out how to print capo chords in
> parentheses after the regular chord, so I get:
>   (capo 3)   C (A)   G7 (E7)
> The nearest I can find is at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg24850.html, but
> that does them on different rows and without parentheses.
> 

To do this on double rows is not too hard.  I made it easier by developing a
parenthesizeAll function.

(I haven't put in the instrument name or the instrument_name_engraver that
was in the archives, but I think you can do that).

parenthesizeAll =
#(define-music-function (parser loc myMusic) (ly:music?)
  (music-map
(lambda (ev)
  (if (or (memq 'note-event (ly:music-property ev 'types))
  (memq 'rest-event (ly:music-property ev 'types)))
  (set! (ly:music-property ev 'parenthesize) #t))
  ev)
myMusic)
  myMusic)


mychords = \chordmode {
  c1 g1 c1
}

<<
  \new ChordNames {
\mychords
  }
  \new ChordNames {
\parenthesizeAll
  \transpose c a {\mychords}
  }
>>


Doing the two side-by-side will be a bit harder, because we'll need to
figure out a scheme for the timing.  My initial thought was to just cut the
duration in half and add a \parenthesize{\transpose {}}.  But this would be
really ugly if the chords were full duration.  For example, if each chord
were a whole note, then the capo chords would be off half a measure from the
regular chords.  Further, that scheme would mess up the chordChanges
behavior.

So I think the best way to go is to just mess with the chordNames function.
If I recall correctly, in the last year or so somebody posted on the list a
transposition function for chord names.  You might be able to make that work
and to create a new chord name creation function that would create the chord
name, transpose it, and then combine the two with the second one in
parentheses.  This would require Scheme knowledge.

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful.

Carl

P.S.  It's generally a good idea to start a new thread when you change the
topic; it helps in archive searches later.



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/12 Mats Bengtsson :
>
>
> James E. Bailey wrote:
>>
>> I would just not use partial. You know that you can put in a bar line even
>> if the measure isn't complete.
>> James E. Bailey
>
> Yes, in situations like the following one:
> \relative c'{
>  \partial 4 c4 | c d e f | g2. \bar "||" \break
>  e4 | g f e d | c2. \bar "|."
> }
>
> but not in situations like
>
> \relative c' {
>  c4 d e f  | g1 \bar "||" \break
>  \set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 3 4)
>  e | g f e d | c2. \bar "|."
> }
>
> where the upbeat does not match the preceding measure. I suspect that Tim's
> question was about the latter case.
> (Of course you can question the mathematical abilities of the composer in
> this case, but I've seen several printed scores that use this kind of
> construct.)

My case is like:

chorus = \relative c' {
  c4 d e f |
  g a b
}

verse = \relative c'' {
  \partial 4 c4 |
  d e d c |
}

\new Staff {
  \new Voice = "mel" { \chorus }  \new Voice = "vs" {\verse}
}

So actually
\bar "|"
does just what I needed all along!

Thanks.

Now on to my next exercise -- working out how to print capo chords in
parentheses after the regular chord, so I get:
  (capo 3)   C (A)   G7 (E7)
The nearest I can find is at
http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg24850.html, but
that does them on different rows and without parentheses.

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Mats Bengtsson]

James E. Bailey wrote:


I would just not use partial. You know that you can put in a bar line 
even if the measure isn't complete.

James E. Bailey

Yes, in situations like the following one:
\relative c'{
 \partial 4 c4 | c d e f | g2. \bar "||" \break
 e4 | g f e d | c2. \bar "|."
}

but not in situations like

\relative c' {
 c4 d e f  | g1 \bar "||" \break
 \set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 3 4)
 e | g f e d | c2. \bar "|."
}

where the upbeat does not match the preceding measure. I suspect that 
Tim's question was about the latter case.
(Of course you can question the mathematical abilities of the composer 
in this case, but I've seen several printed scores that use this kind of 
construct.)


/Mats



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[James E. Bailey]

Am 11.05.2009 um 20:24 schrieb Tim Rowe:

The only thing wrong is that the verse starts with an anacrusis -- a
pickup beat, for which I've used \partial. The notes look perfect, but
the bar numbering is wrong because it's treating the incomplete bar at
the end of the chorus and the completion in the verse as two separate
bars.

I can kludge that by using:
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #9
but that involves me counting the bars, so I'd sooner do something  
like

  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- 'internalBarNumber 1)
except not that because it doesn't work. Drat. Am I going to have to
learn more scheme, or am I getting at the bar number in the wrong way?
--
Tim Rowe


I would just not use partial. You know that you can put in a bar line  
even if the measure isn't complete.

James E. Bailey



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Mats Bengtsson :

> Here, I would rather say
> \new Staff {
>  \autoBeamOff \new Voice = "mel" { \chorus }  \new Voice = "vs" {\verse} }

That is clearer, yes. I'm still a bit shaky about when I can cascade
things in sequence and when I can't. The rule so far seems to be that
when I try it it doesn't work and when others do it it works fine! But
I'll get there...


> If you use \partial 8, it is equivalent to using
> \set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment -1 8)
>
> If you instead insert
> \set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 7 8)
> (assuming that the piece is in 4/4), the incomplete bar shouldn't be counted
> as a separate bar but as part of the existing bar.

And since I have \partial 4, I need
\set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 3 4)

Excellent, thanks. At the moment ly:make-moment looks a bit esoteric
-- is it reasonable for a beginner to treat that as magic, or is it
something I should know about sooner rather than later?


-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Mats Bengtsson]

Quoting Tim Rowe :

Thanks. With that I've got something that is very nearly right.

Having given the music element pretty obvious names, I have in a
simultaneous section of the score:

   \new Voice = "mel" { \autoBeamOff \chorus \new Voice = "vs" {\verse} }

Here, I would rather say
\new Staff {
 \autoBeamOff \new Voice = "mel" { \chorus }  \new Voice = "vs" {\verse} }

to conceptually make it more clear that it's not a matter of nesting 
two Voices within each other, but rather that they are put in sequence.

If you wish, you can skip some braces and shorten it into:
\new Staff {
 \autoBeamOff \new Voice = "mel" \chorus  \new Voice = "vs" \verse
}


   \new Lyrics \lyricsto mel \chorusLyric
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseOne
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseTwo
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseThree
   \new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseFour

The only thing wrong is that the verse starts with an anacrusis -- a
pickup beat, for which I've used \partial. The notes look perfect, but
the bar numbering is wrong because it's treating the incomplete bar at
the end of the chorus and the completion in the verse as two separate
bars.


If you use \partial 8, it is equivalent to using
\set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment -1 8)

If you instead insert
\set Score.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 7 8)
(assuming that the piece is in 4/4), the incomplete bar shouldn't be 
counted as a separate bar but as part of the existing bar.



   /Mats




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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Jonathan Kulp :

> And maybe this is the snippet Kieren's thinking of?
>
> http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=333

Thanks. It looks as if "learn more scheme" is the answer ;-)

-- 
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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Jonathan Kulp]

Tim Rowe wrote:

2009/5/11 Kieren MacMillan :


If I recall correctly, there's a Scheme function in the LSR which allows you
to increment/decrement the bar number at any point -- search for "bar
number" or "increment".


Which is the LSR? I'd done that search in the learning manual,
notation reference, internals reference and snippets list!


Lilypond Snippet Repository. Here:

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/

And maybe this is the snippet Kieren's thinking of?

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=333

Jon

--
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Kieren MacMillan :

> If I recall correctly, there's a Scheme function in the LSR which allows you
> to increment/decrement the bar number at any point -- search for "bar
> number" or "increment".

Which is the LSR? I'd done that search in the learning manual,
notation reference, internals reference and snippets list!

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Tim,


I can kludge that by using:
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #9
but that involves me counting the bars, so I'd sooner do something  
like

  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- 'internalBarNumber 1)
except not that because it doesn't work. Drat. Am I going to have to
learn more scheme, or am I getting at the bar number in the wrong way?


If I recall correctly, there's a Scheme function in the LSR which  
allows you to increment/decrement the bar number at any point --  
search for "bar number" or "increment".


Hope this helps!
Kieren.


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Tim Rowe :

> but that involves me counting the bars, so I'd sooner do something like
>  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- 'internalBarNumber 1)
> except not that because it doesn't work.

And neither does
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- 'Score.currentBarNumber 1)
nor
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- Score.currentBarNumber 1)
(I could never work out when I was doing Lisp whether I needed those
ticks or not...)


-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Trevor Daniels :

> Tim, I think Mats meant the very last example in
> that section, which shows two ways of coding a
> solo verse followed by a 2-part harmonised refrain.
> You could use either technique to code verses
> and chorus.  The second method right at the end
> is far easier.

Thanks. With that I've got something that is very nearly right.

Having given the music element pretty obvious names, I have in a
simultaneous section of the score:

\new Voice = "mel" { \autoBeamOff \chorus \new Voice = "vs" {\verse} }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto mel \chorusLyric
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseOne
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseTwo
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseThree
\new Lyrics \lyricsto vs \verseFour

The only thing wrong is that the verse starts with an anacrusis -- a
pickup beat, for which I've used \partial. The notes look perfect, but
the bar numbering is wrong because it's treating the incomplete bar at
the end of the chorus and the completion in the verse as two separate
bars.

I can kludge that by using:
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #9
but that involves me counting the bars, so I'd sooner do something like
  \set Score.currentBarNumber = #(- 'internalBarNumber 1)
except not that because it doesn't work. Drat. Am I going to have to
learn more scheme, or am I getting at the bar number in the wrong way?
-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Graham Percival :
> (on the LR)
> "This book explains how to begin learning LilyPond, as well as
> explaining some key concepts in easy terms. You should read these
> chapters in a linear fashion.

Which I did.

> There is a paragraph See also at the end of each section, which
> contains cross-references to other sections: you should not follow
> these cross-references at first reading; when you have read all of
> the Learning Manual, you may want to read some sections again and
> follow cross-references for further reading."

Which I:
a) didn't,
b) did, and
c) did, respectively, as instructed.

> "This book explains all the LilyPond commands which produce
> notation. It assumes that readers are familiar with the concepts
> in the Learning Manual."

Which I was, as far as I was able.

> Honestly, what else can we do?  Add a maoing  tag to the
> webpage, saying "you should read the documentation" ?

Honestly, what else could I do? Go through the whole process again and
again, in the hope that on one pass it will suddenly be different?
There's a saying to the effect that if you've tried something and it
doesn't work then to keep trying it in the hope that it will work is a
sign of madness. You continue to assume that I hadn't read the
documentation. I have. I still have questions.

At university we had one lecturer who, each lecture, would simply read
out loud a chapter of the textbook he had written, and which was a set
text. If anybody asked him a question, he'd simply read the relevant
chapter again. Attendance was compulsory (the university tolerated it
because he was a genius performing groundbreaking research in his
field, by the way). You're not related are you?


-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[James E. Bailey]

Am 11.05.2009 um 18:38 schrieb Graham Percival:

Something like LM 1.2 About the documentation?

(on the LR)
"This book explains how to begin learning LilyPond, as well as
explaining some key concepts in easy terms. You should read these
chapters in a linear fashion.


(on the NR)
"This book explains all the LilyPond commands which produce
notation. It assumes that readers are familiar with the concepts
in the Learning Manual."


Honestly, what else can we do?  Add a maoing  tag to the
webpage, saying "you should read the documentation" ?




Unfortunately, there's really nothing we can do. We (as current  
internet and software users) have certain preconceptions about our  
understanding of how software and documentation work(1). Lilypond  
doesn't follow those ideas. I don't think any time or energy should  
be spent in making the software meet our expectations. We also have a  
certain amount of impatience when faced with the situation of having  
to learn something from scratch because all of our existing knowledge  
about software and documentation work is useless when it comes to  
lilypond. So, short of saying, when the download happens, "Forget  
everything you know about how to use software." and, "This program  
has no help, it only has a long documentation that you must read if  
you want to be able to use the software." I don't really think  
there's any way to avoid the "RTFL(earning)M" discussion.


We don't think of documentation as a means to learn something,  
documentation is now "help", in that, like the microsoft office  
assistant, you ask it a question, and it tells you the answer. This  
example, simplified though it may be, pretty well sums up how we use  
documentation these days.

James E. Bailey



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Graham Percival :


> The Learning Manual does ***NOT*** require any prior knowledge.
> If you find **any** lilypond material in the LM which does not
> follow from previous material, this is a bug.
> (we do not explain musical terminology, although we try to add
> links to the music glossary for non-English or amateur musicians)
>
> Go back to LM 2 Tutorial.  Oh, make sure you're looking at the
> 2.12 or 2.13 documentation.  Start reading.  As soon as you find
> a part that assumes prior knowledge, TELL US and we will fix it.
>
>
> Now, the NR assumes that you've already read -- and UNDERSTOOD --
> the LM.  If we didn't do that, the NR could easily be five times
> as long as it is already.

I have read through the LM a few times now. I've not memorised it,
though. Ditto the notation reference. And the problem for a newbie --
well, this newbie, anyway -- is that I don't know whether I understand
it until I try to use it. Then, when I hit a wall -- presumably
because there's something I don't understand, because I'm not doing
anything unusual -- I'm not sure where to go. It's one thing
understanding the documentaion, it's entirely another applying it.

So when I want to do something pretty common like set a chorus and
multiple verses, and can't think of anything I've read that directly
relates (I'm not proficient enough to connect the task to stuff that
doesn't directly relate yet) then my thinking is "There must be an
idiom for a common task like this". When I don't find the idiom in the
snippets, surely it makes sense to ask, rather than plough on and come
up with some possibly arcane and ugly solution to a problem that's
already been solved?

Then I get an answer that the problem can be solved using Voice
contexts. That's helpful, a good steer, and would probably be enough
for an intermediate user. But in my case it reveals that I don't know
contexts well enough to apply that information directly. Clearly what
I thought I understood hadn't sunk in. So I need to go back to the
manuals and check what I'd -- read -- er -- somewhere ... -- er --
where was it? And /that's/ where I'm running into problems. "RTFLM
section 3.3.1" would have been a good answer, where a bare "RTFM" was
no sort of an answer at all. Although 3.3.1 pretty much begins with
"we have already met the Voice context", with no hyperlink to where
that was -- and that's the particular context I need to work with.

You see, that's my problem. When I discover a gap in my knowledge or
understanding, I find that I have to read /all/ of the documentation
again, not just the bits that would fill the gap. Or, of course,
ask...

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 05:32:29PM +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
> 2009/5/11 James E. Bailey :
> 
> > The lilypond documentation really isn't the kind of
> > documentation that you can go to when you want to know how to
> > do something. It's designed to teach you how to use the
> > software.
> >
> > Incidentally, it wasn't until I read the learning manual
> > (after several years of attempting, unsuccessfully, to use
> > lilypond) that I learned that.  James E. Bailey
> 
> Sounds like something that should be in the documentation, not
> just the report.

Something like LM 1.2 About the documentation?

(on the LR)
"This book explains how to begin learning LilyPond, as well as
explaining some key concepts in easy terms. You should read these
chapters in a linear fashion.

There is a paragraph See also at the end of each section, which
contains cross-references to other sections: you should not follow
these cross-references at first reading; when you have read all of
the Learning Manual, you may want to read some sections again and
follow cross-references for further reading."

...

(on the NR)
"This book explains all the LilyPond commands which produce
notation. It assumes that readers are familiar with the concepts
in the Learning Manual."


Honestly, what else can we do?  Add a maoing  tag to the
webpage, saying "you should read the documentation" ?

- Graham




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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 James E. Bailey :

> The lilypond documentation really isn't the kind of
> documentation that you can go to when you want to know how to do
> something. It's designed to teach you how to use the software.
>
> That's a beautiful quote.  Valentin, could you include it in the
> next Report?  :)
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
> Incidentally, it wasn't until I read the learning manual (after several
> years of attempting, unsuccessfully, to use lilypond) that I learned that.
> James E. Bailey

Sounds like something that should be in the documentation, not just the report.

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

> Actually, the manuals are pretty good.

After a fashion, yes. What's there is clear and well written. But the
indexing and cross referencing is weak (too often it leads to where a
concept is just mentioned rather than explained) and there seem to be
gaps (although that might be because I can't find the material because
of the cross-referencing and indexing issues), and when a section
depends on something I can't find an explanation of (such as contexts)
then it's not so clear. For free software that is pretty good, but it
does mean that "RTFM" is unlikely to get to the root of an issue.

> The problem is that lilypond is NOT a user-friendly program. It's a highly
> sophisticated typesetting program and, as you say, assumes a LOT of
> background knowledge in order to be able to use it well.
>
> It's easy to use in a basic sense. As soon as you try and do anything
> complicated (as I'm trying to do) you hit a *steep* learning curve.

I'm a fairly experienced laTeX user, and Lilypond seems to have some
similarity with laTeX. That has the same issue, but being so widely
used there's a lot more information out there.


> The difficulty is that steep learning curve. Any decent lilypond piece of
> music is a *program*, written in a *schizophrenic* *mix* of lilypond and
> Scheme (which is a dialect of Guile, which is a dialect of Lisp, which is
> something many people, including programmers nowadays, have never met).

Well, I have a postgrad degree in computer science, I can use laTeX, I
know some Lisp and have a very slight knowledge of Scheme, so I ought
to be reasonably placed, but like you "I really need someone to hold
my hand while I get started, and that doesn't happen on this list".

Perhaps there should be a lilypond_newbie mailing list too ;-)

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[James E. Bailey]

Am 11.05.2009 um 17:18 schrieb Graham Percival:


On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 05:11:53PM +0200, James E. Bailey wrote:


The lilypond documentation really isn't the kind of
documentation that you can go to when you want to know how to do
something. It's designed to teach you how to use the software.


That's a beautiful quote.  Valentin, could you include it in the
next Report?  :)

Cheers,
- Graham



Incidentally, it wasn't until I read the learning manual (after  
several years of attempting, unsuccessfully, to use lilypond) that I  
learned that.

James E. Bailey



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 04:03:51PM +0100, Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
> Graham's quite cuddly when you get to know him - like a hedgehog
> you just have to be very careful how you cuddle him :-)

Aww, you're making me blush.  :)

> The difficulty is that steep learning curve. Any decent lilypond piece  
> of music is a *program*, written in a *schizophrenic* *mix* of lilypond  
> and Scheme (which is a dialect of Guile, which is a dialect of Lisp,  
> which is something many people, including programmers nowadays, have  
> never met).

Yes and no -- I agree that many typesettings, especially the
high-quality ones --  use a nightmarish combination of lilypond
and scheme.  But this doesn't *need* to be the case.  One of my
big hopes with the Frogs is that we can add commonly-used scheme
things to lilypond so that other people don't need to do any
scheme.

For example, consider the "lilypond elegance" stuff I was doing
last Fall -- the compound time signatures, setting margins to be
equal on USLetter and A4, etc.  My goal is to work those things
into the main distro (in the case of the compound time signatures,
clearly with more style additions), so that other people don't
need to use scheme.


Basically, my goal is that a high-quality engraving should not
contain *any* scheme; any special tweaks should be integrated into
the main lilypond distro.  Once we have a critical mass of
advanced users (which we seem to) and a good organizer (my
speciality ;), this can be done.

Coming soon (say, mid-June?) to a mailist near you.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 05:11:53PM +0200, James E. Bailey wrote:
> 
> The lilypond documentation really isn't the kind of
> documentation that you can go to when you want to know how to do
> something. It's designed to teach you how to use the software.

That's a beautiful quote.  Valentin, could you include it in the
next Report?  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:59:12AM +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
> In the case of every question I have asked, I have not only scoured
> the manuals -- not just the learning manual -- but also searched the
> snippets repository and the web in general for anything that might
> give me a clue.

Did you, or did you not, write:

> That looks like what I need, but I don't quite understand it --
> probably because I don't properly understand contexts -- the in
> documentation, all the index entries for contexts take me to
> sections that assume I already know what they are and just want
> to adjust them."

?

Now, if you had written "I don't understand the second paragraph
of LM 3.3.1 Contexts explained", then I'd be happy.  We could
discuss why that documentation didn't work for you, how we could
rewrite the docs to explain it better, etc.

But instead, you had this vague "I don't understand stuff", which
tells me that you haven't sat down to read the Learning Manual.

> Each question has only been asked after *hours* of searching. In
> the case of every question I have asked, somebody has just told
> me to "read the manuals" as if I were some sort of idiot. I have
> to say that I find the manuals very poor -- they assume a lot of
> prior knowledge,

The Learning Manual does ***NOT*** require any prior knowledge.
If you find **any** lilypond material in the LM which does not
follow from previous material, this is a bug.
(we do not explain musical terminology, although we try to add
links to the music glossary for non-English or amateur musicians)

Go back to LM 2 Tutorial.  Oh, make sure you're looking at the
2.12 or 2.13 documentation.  Start reading.  As soon as you find
a part that assumes prior knowledge, TELL US and we will fix it.


Now, the NR assumes that you've already read -- and UNDERSTOOD --
the LM.  If we didn't do that, the NR could easily be five times
as long as it is already.


> I'm very disappointed in the attitude of some members of this group,
> who seem to want Lilypond to be a private club and don't want the
> inconvenience of new members.

Some members of this group have spent over 3000 hours -- yes,
three thousand hours, that's not a typo -- working on the
documentation, precisely for the benefit of new members.  Yes,
that clearly demonstrates that we hate newbies.

- Graham



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[James E. Bailey]

Am 11.05.2009 um 12:59 schrieb Tim Rowe:


2009/5/11 Graham Percival :


RTF Learning Manual.  It's written specifically for this purpose.
- Graham


Really I find this attitude very aggressive, hostile and unwelcoming,
and quite unlike all of the other email groups for software that I
use.

In the case of every question I have asked, I have not only scoured
the manuals -- not just the learning manual -- but also searched the
snippets repository and the web in general for anything that might
give me a clue.


Unfortunately, the lilypond documentation wasn't written with this  
kind of learning in mind. Once you get used to concept it's okay, but  
the documentation for lilypond isn't the kind of documentation that  
you go to when you have a question about how to do something.


The learning manual is designed to be read before you actually start  
notating something, or at least, as a corollary as you notate the  
examples in the learning manual so that you understand what they are  
and how they work.


The notation reference is designed to be the place to answer specific  
questions about specific uses of functions and contexts and  
properties that you already understand. The lilypond documentation  
really isn't the kind of documentation that you can go to when you  
want to know how to do something. It's designed to teach you how to  
use the software.


James E. Bailey



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Anthony W. Youngman]

In message 
, Tim Rowe 
 writes

2009/5/11 Graham Percival :


RTF Learning Manual.  It's written specifically for this purpose.
- Graham


Really I find this attitude very aggressive, hostile and unwelcoming,
and quite unlike all of the other email groups for software that I
use.


Graham's quite cuddly when you get to know him - like a hedgehog you 
just have to be very careful how you cuddle him :-)


In the case of every question I have asked, I have not only scoured
the manuals -- not just the learning manual -- but also searched the
snippets repository and the web in general for anything that might
give me a clue. Each question has only been asked after *hours* of
searching. In the case of every question I have asked, somebody has
just told me to "read the manuals" as if I were some sort of idiot. I
have to say that I find the manuals very poor -- they assume a lot of
prior knowledge, and they are poorly indexed, but this is usual for
free software -- documentation almost always lags behind, but usually
it's compensated by a friendly user community.


Actually, the manuals are pretty good. And we have Graham to thank for 
that.


The problem is that lilypond is NOT a user-friendly program. It's a 
highly sophisticated typesetting program and, as you say, assumes a LOT 
of background knowledge in order to be able to use it well.


It's easy to use in a basic sense. As soon as you try and do anything 
complicated (as I'm trying to do) you hit a *steep* learning curve.


But that's the nature of the beast. Any tool that sets out to do a 
specialist job well *will*, by the very *nature* of the thing, be a tool 
that requires a specialist user.


I'm very disappointed in the attitude of some members of this group,
who seem to want Lilypond to be a private club and don't want the
inconvenience of new members. Your hostility and unhelpfulness makes
me strongly tempted to go back to Finale, but fortunately /some/
members of the mailing list have a much more welcoming and helpful
attitude.

If this is not an appropriate place to ask elementary questions that I
can't find addressed in the manuals or on the web (even if the answers
are buried in there somewhere) then please tell me where I /can/ ask
those questions. Otherwise your attitude is simply going to drive
people away. Maybe that's what you want.


This is the place to ask :-( Just give Graham as good as you get :-)

The difficulty is that steep learning curve. Any decent lilypond piece 
of music is a *program*, written in a *schizophrenic* *mix* of lilypond 
and Scheme (which is a dialect of Guile, which is a dialect of Lisp, 
which is something many people, including programmers nowadays, have 
never met).


Some people seem to find that transition from simple to decent easy - 
I've seen it happen to people on the list. Others find it hard. I'm 
finding it hard. I really need someone to hold my hand while I get 
started, and that doesn't happen on this list. People are helpful though 
- on several occasions people have offered to write stuff I want 
(sometimes for a fee :-). But I don't want it written for me, I want to 
write it myself in order to learn, and that's where this list does fall 
apart a bit :-(


Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Graham Percival :

> RTF Learning Manual.  It's written specifically for this purpose.
> - Graham

Really I find this attitude very aggressive, hostile and unwelcoming,
and quite unlike all of the other email groups for software that I
use.

In the case of every question I have asked, I have not only scoured
the manuals -- not just the learning manual -- but also searched the
snippets repository and the web in general for anything that might
give me a clue. Each question has only been asked after *hours* of
searching. In the case of every question I have asked, somebody has
just told me to "read the manuals" as if I were some sort of idiot. I
have to say that I find the manuals very poor -- they assume a lot of
prior knowledge, and they are poorly indexed, but this is usual for
free software -- documentation almost always lags behind, but usually
it's compensated by a friendly user community.

I'm very disappointed in the attitude of some members of this group,
who seem to want Lilypond to be a private club and don't want the
inconvenience of new members. Your hostility and unhelpfulness makes
me strongly tempted to go back to Finale, but fortunately /some/
members of the mailing list have a much more welcoming and helpful
attitude.

If this is not an appropriate place to ask elementary questions that I
can't find addressed in the manuals or on the web (even if the answers
are buried in there somewhere) then please tell me where I /can/ ask
those questions. Otherwise your attitude is simply going to drive
people away. Maybe that's what you want.

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 09:13:41AM +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
> That looks like what I need, but I don't quite understand it --
> probably because I don't properly understand contexts -- the in
> documentation, all the index entries for contexts take me to sections
> that assume I already know what they are and just want to adjust them.

RTF Learning Manual.  It's written specifically for this purpose.
- Graham



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/11 Trevor Daniels :

> Tim, I think Mats meant the very last example in
> that section, which shows two ways of coding a
> solo verse followed by a 2-part harmonised refrain.
> You could use either technique to code verses
> and chorus.  The second method right at the end
> is far easier.

Ah, ok. The result the example is aiming for is quite different, which
is why I'd missed it, but the positioning of simultaneous and
sequential sections is comparable to what I want to do so the
principles should apply. Thanks.

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/10 James E. Bailey :

> There are different ways of doing this. I prefer to have separate voice
> contexts for the verse and lyrics, i.e., music = { \context Voice = Verse
> \relative {} \context Voice = Chorus \relative {} } and then corresponding
> lyrics contexts: verse = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Verse \lyricmode {}
> chorus = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Chorus \lyricmode {}

That looks like what I need, but I don't quite understand it --
probably because I don't properly understand contexts -- the in
documentation, all the index entries for contexts take me to sections
that assume I already know what they are and just want to adjust them.

So how do I put those bits together? In my first attempt I've put my
lyrics into variables:
chorus = {...
verseOne = {...
verseTwo = {...
verseThree = {...

It looks as if they shouldn't just contain the text as at present. You have
  verse = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Verse \lyricmode {}
Should I actually have
  verseOne = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Verse \lyricmode {}
  verseTwo = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Verse \lyricmode {}
and so on, or do all the verses go in the
  verse = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Verse \lyricmode {}
(If the latter, how do I divide them up?)

I have a melody line and upper and lower piano lines:

melody = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \key f \major
  \time 4/4
  ...

upper = \relative c' {
  \clef treble
  \key f \major
  \time 4/4
 ...

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \key f \major
  \time 4/4
  ...

Presumably the melody is the only one I worry about, because that's
the one the lyrics fit. So I just add the context statememts within
the melody as you've indicated. Ok there, I think.

And the overall score is taken from a template in the learners' manual:

\score {
  <<
\set Score.tempoHideNote = ##t
\tempo 4 = 144
\new Voice = "mel" { \autoBeamOff \melody }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto mel \lyricmode \chorus % but I can't work
out how to add the verses
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff = "upper" \upper
  \new Staff = "lower" \lower
>>
  >>
  \layout {
\context { \RemoveEmptyStaffContext }
  }
  \midi { }
}

I'm not sure how I add all of the elements together there.

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Trevor Daniels]

From: "Tim Rowe" wrote Monday, May 11, 2009 12:29 AM


2009/5/10 Mats Bengtsson :
This is explained in Sect. "3.2.3 Voices and vocals" in the 
Learning Manual

for LilyPond.


I can't see anything relating to it there -- it was the first 
place I
looked! Perhaps you don't understand what I want, or perhaps I 
can't
see what't in front of my face (wouldn't be the first time). Can 
you

point me to the bit of 3.2.3 that you think relates?


Tim, I think Mats meant the very last example in
that section, which shows two ways of coding a
solo verse followed by a 2-part harmonised refrain.
You could use either technique to code verses
and chorus.  The second method right at the end
is far easier.

Trevor



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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Tim Rowe]

2009/5/10 Mats Bengtsson :
> This is explained in Sect. "3.2.3 Voices and vocals" in the Learning Manual
> for LilyPond.

I can't see anything relating to it there -- it was the first place I
looked! Perhaps you don't understand what I want, or perhaps I can't
see what't in front of my face (wouldn't be the first time). Can you
point me to the bit of 3.2.3 that you think relates?

-- 
Tim Rowe


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Mats Bengtsson]

James E. Bailey wrote:


Some prefer to use \skip1*32 (or appropriate).
I can't imagine that anybody prefers this option (at least not when 
using \addlyrics or \lyricsto), since it doesn't work. This will not 
skip 32 bars and not even 32 notes, but just a single note.


  /Mats


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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[Mats Bengtsson]

This is explained in Sect. "3.2.3 Voices and vocals" in the Learning 
Manual for LilyPond.


  /Mats

Tim Rowe wrote:

Sorry for all the newbie questions -- I'm getting what I can from the
documentation and examples, but as you can tell a few things are
tripping me up.

This one is a song that has verses and a chorus.  I can't work out how
to set them all against the music, unless I pad all verses except the
first with a lot of \skip instructions where the chorus would be. I
though it might be in the manual under "Lyrics and repeats", but that
section doesn't seem to be written yet. This must be a common enough
job -- how do I do it?

Thanks in advance..

  




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Re: Newbie Question -- verse and chorus

[James E. Bailey]

Am 10.05.2009 um 22:54 schrieb Tim Rowe:


Sorry for all the newbie questions -- I'm getting what I can from the
documentation and examples, but as you can tell a few things are
tripping me up.

This one is a song that has verses and a chorus.  I can't work out how
to set them all against the music, unless I pad all verses except the
first with a lot of \skip instructions where the chorus would be. I
though it might be in the manual under "Lyrics and repeats", but that
section doesn't seem to be written yet. This must be a common enough
job -- how do I do it?

Thanks in advance..

--  
Tim Rowe




There are different ways of doing this. I prefer to have separate  
voice contexts for the verse and lyrics, i.e., music = { \context  
Voice = Verse \relative {} \context Voice = Chorus \relative {} } and  
then corresponding lyrics contexts: verse = \context Lyrics \lyricsto  
Verse \lyricmode {} chorus = \context Lyrics \lyricsto Chorus  
\lyricmode {}
Some prefer to use \skip1*32 (or appropriate). And some prefer a  
similar method to skip, but a little easier on input, \repeat unfold  
138 {_}


James E. Bailey



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Re: Newbie question: Brief alternative lyrics-and-notes during repeat

[Jonathan Kulp]

aliteralmind wrote:

This is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you Jon.

Your example code taught me big time. Thanks for the help. I haven't tried
the following yet, but I think I also understand now, how to make this work
both with or without a second verse of lyrics. A combination of two versus,
and two VOICES, where the second verse uses the second voice.

:'  )



Glad to help.  If you haven't already made it all the way through the 
tutorial in the Learning Manual, then you should do that, too.  Since 
you're a programmer you'll pick this stuff up a lot quicker than I did. 
  Best,


Jon

--
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http://www.jonathankulp.com


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Re: Newbie question: Brief alternative lyrics-and-notes during repeat

[aliteralmind]

This is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you Jon.

Your example code taught me big time. Thanks for the help. I haven't tried
the following yet, but I think I also understand now, how to make this work
both with or without a second verse of lyrics. A combination of two versus,
and two VOICES, where the second verse uses the second voice.

:'  )

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Newbie-question%3A-Brief-alternative-lyrics-and-notes-during-repeat-tp22002470p22015840.html
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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Re: Newbie question: brief alternative notes-and-lyrics in repeat

[Jonathan Kulp]

Jeff,

I responded to this last night, although I suppose it's possible my 
response didn't answer all of your questions.  Check the archives if 
you're not subscribed to the list. :)


Jon

Jeff Epstein wrote:

How do you create lyrics for brief alternative notes, existing in repeated 
sections (when there are not enough notes to justify duplicating the entire 
section)? Here is a demonstration picture of what I am trying to do:

http://jeffyepstein.com/tmp/alternative_lyrics.gif

The red is what I can't figure, either with or without a second-verse of 
lyrics. I cannot seem to add anything else without causing a problem. Below is 
the lilypond code for the above image.Thank you for any advice.

(I am new to LilyPond, but I'm a programmer and have an excellent first 
impression--and I was going to spend 90 bucks, when this is free??!!)

---
\version "2.12.2"


\relative c'' {
   \time 4/4
\repeat volta 2 {  c4 b a g  }
\repeat volta 2 {  f4 e d c  }
\repeat volta 2 {  c'4 b a <<
\override Stem #'direction = #UP
   {  g4  }
\\
\teeny
   \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #1.7
\override Stem #'direction = #DOWN
\override Stem #'length = #4
   {  g16 a g8  }
>>}
\repeat volta 2 {  c,4 e <<
\override Stem #'direction = #UP
   {  g4 c4  }
\\
\teeny
   \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #1.7
\override Stem #'direction = #DOWN
\override Stem #'length = #4
   {  g8 g8 c4  }
>>}
}
\addlyrics { do ti la so fa mi ray do do ti la }
---



--
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com


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Re: Newbie question: Brief alternative lyrics-and-notes during repeat

[Jonathan Kulp]

Welcome to Lilypond, Jeff. :)

What you're trying to do I would approach with more than one set of 
lyrics, coded as verseOne, verseTwo, etc., and with the voices separated 
into variables that can be assembled in a separate \score block.  I've 
taken your code and made an example of how I would approach it, and it 
looks very similar to the top example on your website.  The only thing 
that doesn't look quite right is the lyric extender line, so you might 
check into this in the Notation Reference and/or Learning Manual.


code attached.

HTH,

Jon


aliteralmind wrote:

How do you create lyrics for some brief alternative notes existing in
repeated sections (when there are not enough notes to justify duplicating
the section)? Here is a demonstration picture of what I am trying to do:

http://jeffyepstein.com/tmp/alternative_lyrics.gif

The red is what I can't figure, either with or without a second-verse of
lyrics. I cannot seem to add anything else without causing a problem. The
below lilypond code is a demonstration of my problem.

Thank you for any advice. I am new to LilyPond, but I'm a programmer and
have an excellent first impression of it--and I was going to spend 90 bucks,
when this is free??!!




---
\version "2.12.2"


\relative c'' {
   \time 4/4
\repeat volta 2 {  c4 b a g  }
\repeat volta 2 {  f4 e d c  }
\repeat volta 2 {  c'4 b a <<
\override Stem #'direction = #UP
   {  g4  }
\\
\teeny
   \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #1.7
\override Stem #'direction = #DOWN
\override Stem #'length = #4
   {  g16 a g8  }
>>}
\repeat volta 2 {  c,4 e <<
\override Stem #'direction = #UP
   {  g4 c4  }
\\
\teeny
   \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #1.7
\override Stem #'direction = #DOWN
\override Stem #'length = #4
   {  g8 g8 c4  }
>>}
}
\addlyrics { do ti la so fa mi ray do do ti la }
---




--
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
\version "2.12.2"

upper = \relative c'' {
  \time 4/4
  \oneVoice
  \repeat volta 2 {  c4 b a g  }
  \repeat volta 2 {  f4 e d c  }
  \repeat volta 2 {  c'4 b a \voiceOne g4  }
  \repeat volta 2 {  c,4 e g4 c4 }
}

lower = \relative c'' {
  s1 
  s1 
  s2 s4 \teeny
  \override NoteColumn #'force-hshift = #1.7
  \voiceTwo \override Stem #'length = #4 { g16 a g8 }
  s2 g8 g c4 
}

verseOne = \lyricmode { 
  do ti la so fa mi ray do do ti la so __ do mi so __ do
}

verseTwo = \lyricmode {
  so la so so so do 
}

\score {
  \context Staff = "voice" <<
\set Staff.instrumentName = "Voice"
\context Voice = "upper" { \upper }
\context Voice = "lower" { \lower }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "upper" { \verseOne }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "lower" { \verseTwo }
  >>  
  \layout { }
  \midi { }
}
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Re: newbie question about long scores / compilation times / memory allocation

[Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)]

joel mellin wrote:

Hi Bert,
 
Yes, it's a dual core machine.  With 4 GB of RAM.  I guess it just 
seems strange that it would limit itself at 50% when other processess 
use as much as they need when they need it. 
No, they do only if they are using parallel computing. If the process 
only uses one core, then 50% is shown.


If it needs more memory, and is generating memory allocations errors 
as a result, doesn't it seems like it should be able to use it if it's 
there and available? I guess I'm just a little stumped.

Scheme gurus could help here.



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Re: newbie question about long scores / compilation times / memory allocation

[joel mellin]

Hi Bert,

Yes, it's a dual core machine.  With 4 GB of RAM.  I guess it just seems
strange that it would limit itself at 50% when other processess use as much
as they need when they need it.  If it needs more memory, and is generating
memory allocations errors as a result, doesn't it seems like it should be
able to use it if it's there and available? I guess I'm just a little
stumped.

Best,
Joel

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) <
lilypondt...@organum.hu> wrote:

> Please keep the discussion on the list using "Reply All" to let others fix
> my wrong thoughts. :-)
>
> It has nothing to do with the CPU. I suppose you have a dual core or
> hyperthreading processor.
>
> Look for the memory consumption of lilypond.exe in task manager.
> Use a value like 60.
> It also may happen you not correctly set the environment variable.
>
>
>
> joel mellin wrote:
>
> Hi Bert,
>
> Thanks for the info.  I guess this leads me to - what if it does appear to
> be ignored?  I've set that environment variable, rebooted a number of times
> since, and whever I create the PDF and watch the task manager, CPU sticks at
> 50.  I only set it to 90 just to see if it would actually go up to 90.  I'm
> using the context menu  - right click - generate score.  This appears (as
> judged by the registry) to run lilypond-windows with the -dgui.   Perhaps
> the Task Manager is not the best way to judge whether or not lilypond is
> using more CPU / Memory?  Either way, I still receive a memory allocation
> error.
> Is there a better place to put the 'export LILYPOND_GC_YIELD=VAL'  instead
> of an environment variable?
>
> Thanks - I appreciate the help!
>
> Best,
> Joel
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) <
> lilypondt...@organum.hu> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure that LILYPOND_GC_YIELD is not ignored, I tried it. See
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg38982.html
>> However, I don't know if 90 is really high or not.
>>
>>  I used to recommend a number below 70.
>>
>> Bert
>>
>> joel mellin wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Lilyponders.
>>
>> newbie question  - I'm entering the world of lilypond via JMSL (
>> www.algomusic.com) and glad to be here.
>>
>> I've got a rather lengthy score of ~2400 measures with many, many notes.
>> When I attempt to create the PDF file, I get as far as the preprocessing of
>> graphical objects, and then I receiving a memory allocation error.  I've
>> scoured the web / lilypond.org site / etc. for information regarding
>> memory allocation and am a bit stumped.
>>
>> I'm on a windows machine, and the CPU holds at 50% usage, and memory never
>> goes above the ~1.75 GB mark.  I've tried adding the LILYPOND_GC_YIELD
>> environment variable and setting it high (90), but it appears that this is
>> ignored.  Is this true on windows machines?  I've looked for ways to set
>> this from the command line arguments [lilypond-windows.exe - ??] but it
>> doesn't appear that this is the way to do this either. Smaller runs of the
>> same process that generates the longer score seem to work alright.  I get
>> the impression it's not a syntax issue as much as it is a memory allocation
>> issue, and there's more CPU and memory to be used, for sure.
>>
>> Ideas?  Has anyone dealt with long compilation times / high memory usage /
>> memory errors on windows machines?
>>
>> Thank you kindly,
>> Joel
>>
>> --
>> Composition | Sound Design | Web Architecture
>> http://www.joelmellin.com
>>
>> Waxfruit™ Arts Media, Inc.
>> http://www.waxfruit.org
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing 
>> listlilypond-u...@gnu.orghttp://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Composition | Sound Design | Web Architecture
> http://www.joelmellin.com
>
> Waxfruit™ Arts Media, Inc.
> http://www.waxfruit.org
>
>
>


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Re: newbie question about long scores / compilation times / memory allocation

[Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)]

Please keep the discussion on the list using "Reply All" to let others 
fix my wrong thoughts. :-)


It has nothing to do with the CPU. I suppose you have a dual core or 
hyperthreading processor.


Look for the memory consumption of lilypond.exe in task manager.
Use a value like 60.
It also may happen you not correctly set the environment variable.



joel mellin wrote:

Hi Bert,
 
Thanks for the info.  I guess this leads me to - what if it does 
appear to be ignored?  I've set that environment variable, rebooted a 
number of times since, and whever I create the PDF and watch the task 
manager, CPU sticks at 50.  I only set it to 90 just to see if it 
would actually go up to 90.  I'm using the context menu  - right click 
- generate score.  This appears (as judged by the registry) to run 
lilypond-windows with the -dgui.   Perhaps the Task Manager is not the 
best way to judge whether or not lilypond is using more CPU / Memory?  
Either way, I still receive a memory allocation error.
Is there a better place to put the 'export 
LILYPOND_GC_YIELD=VAL'  instead of an environment variable?
 
Thanks - I appreciate the help!
 
Best,

Joel
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) 
mailto:lilypondt...@organum.hu>> wrote:


I'm sure that LILYPOND_GC_YIELD is not ignored, I tried it. See
http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg38982.html
However, I don't know if 90 is really high or not.

 I used to recommend a number below 70.

Bert

joel mellin wrote:

Hi Lilyponders.
 
newbie question  - I'm entering the world of lilypond via JMSL

(www.algomusic.com ) and glad to be here.
 
I've got a rather lengthy score of ~2400 measures with many, many

notes.  When I attempt to create the PDF file, I get as far as
the preprocessing of graphical objects, and then I receiving a
memory allocation error.  I've scoured the web / lilypond.org
 site / etc. for information regarding
memory allocation and am a bit stumped.
 
I'm on a windows machine, and the CPU holds at 50% usage, and

memory never goes above the ~1.75 GB mark.  I've tried adding the
LILYPOND_GC_YIELD environment variable and setting it high (90),
but it appears that this is ignored.  Is this true on windows
machines?  I've looked for ways to set this from the command line
arguments [lilypond-windows.exe - ??] but it doesn't appear that
this is the way to do this either. Smaller runs of the same
process that generates the longer score seem to work alright.  I
get the impression it's not a syntax issue as much as it is a
memory allocation issue, and there's more CPU and memory to be
used, for sure.
 
Ideas?  Has anyone dealt with long compilation times / high

memory usage / memory errors on windows machines?
 
Thank you kindly,

Joel

-- 
Composition | Sound Design | Web Architecture

http://www.joelmellin.com 

Waxfruit™ Arts Media, Inc.
http://www.waxfruit.org 


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http://www.joelmellin.com

Waxfruit™ Arts Media, Inc.
http://www.waxfruit.org


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Re: newbie question about long scores / compilation times / memory allocation

[Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)]

I'm sure that LILYPOND_GC_YIELD is not ignored, I tried it. See 
http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg38982.html

However, I don't know if 90 is really high or not.

I used to recommend a number below 70.

Bert

joel mellin wrote:

Hi Lilyponders.
 
newbie question  - I'm entering the world of lilypond via JMSL 
(www.algomusic.com ) and glad to be here.
 
I've got a rather lengthy score of ~2400 measures with many, many 
notes.  When I attempt to create the PDF file, I get as far as the 
preprocessing of graphical objects, and then I receiving a memory 
allocation error.  I've scoured the web / lilypond.org 
 site / etc. for information regarding memory 
allocation and am a bit stumped.
 
I'm on a windows machine, and the CPU holds at 50% usage, and memory 
never goes above the ~1.75 GB mark.  I've tried adding the 
LILYPOND_GC_YIELD environment variable and setting it high (90), but 
it appears that this is ignored.  Is this true on windows machines?  
I've looked for ways to set this from the command line arguments 
[lilypond-windows.exe - ??] but it doesn't appear that this is the way 
to do this either. Smaller runs of the same process that generates the 
longer score seem to work alright.  I get the impression it's not a 
syntax issue as much as it is a memory allocation issue, and there's 
more CPU and memory to be used, for sure.
 
Ideas?  Has anyone dealt with long compilation times / high memory 
usage / memory errors on windows machines?
 
Thank you kindly,

Joel

--
Composition | Sound Design | Web Architecture
http://www.joelmellin.com

Waxfruit™ Arts Media, Inc.
http://www.waxfruit.org


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Re: Newbie question: tie between a and b

[Valentin Villenave]

2009/1/5 Werner LEMBERG :

> Actually, there is: { c-sharp ~ d-flat }.
>
> This is not (yet?) supported in lilypond.

Yep, and it should be:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=461

(I know you know about the tracker page, it's just a reminder for
myself when I browse the archive.)

Cheers,
Valentin


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Re: Newbie question: tie between a and b

[Werner LEMBERG]

> There's no such thing as a tie between two different notes.

Actually, there is: { c-sharp ~ d-flat }.

This is not (yet?) supported in lilypond.


Werner


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Re: Newbie question: tie between a and b

[James E. Bailey]

Am 05.01.2009 um 11:24 schrieb Gyula P. Szokoly:


Hi,

  GNU LilyPond 2.10.33, input is at the end. The tie between the  
two 'a's

works, but not between a and b. The problem seems to be related to the
orientation of the stem (i.e. tie between opposite stems) but forcing
the stem (\stemUp) does not seem to help. I am probably missing  
something

trivial...

  Any ideas? Same happens with Linux and Win (cygwin, w2000pro)  
versions.


This is more a music theory question. There's no such thing as a tie  
between two different notes. See the Music Glossary entry on tie.



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Re: Newbie question: tie between a and b

[Mats Bengtsson]

Please check in a dictionary (and in the LilyPond documentation) about 
the difference between
a tie and a slur. I'm afraid that the Music Glossary included in the 
LilyPond documentation
does not yet include Hungarian, perhaps you would be interested in 
helping out with that?


  /Mats

Gyula P. Szokoly wrote:

Hi,

  GNU LilyPond 2.10.33, input is at the end. The tie between the two 'a's
works, but not between a and b. The problem seems to be related to the
orientation of the stem (i.e. tie between opposite stems) but forcing
the stem (\stemUp) does not seem to help. I am probably missing something
trivial...

  Any ideas? Same happens with Linux and Win (cygwin, w2000pro) versions.

Thanks,
  Gyula

\book {
  \paper {
  }

  \score {
\relative c'' {
\time 4/4
a4 ~ a a ~ b }
  }
}



\version "2.10.0"  % necessary for upgrading to future LilyPond versions.



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=
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Signal Processing
School of Electrical Engineering
Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
   Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se
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Re: Newbie question: tie between a and b

[Cameron Horsburgh]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:24:44AM +0100, Gyula P. Szokoly wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   GNU LilyPond 2.10.33, input is at the end. The tie between the two 'a's
> works, but not between a and b. The problem seems to be related to the
> orientation of the stem (i.e. tie between opposite stems) but forcing
> the stem (\stemUp) does not seem to help. I am probably missing something
> trivial...

You certainly are! Ties can only join notes of the same pitch, so a
will only tie to an a on the same line/space. I think you want a slur: 

 a4 ~ a a(  b)

See
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Curves#Curves
for more details. 

> 
>   Any ideas? Same happens with Linux and Win (cygwin, w2000pro) versions.
> 
> Thanks,
>   Gyula
> 
> \book {
>   \paper {
>   }
> 
>   \score {
> \relative c'' {
> \time 4/4
> a4 ~ a a ~ b }
>   }
> }
> 
> 
> 
> \version "2.10.0"  % necessary for upgrading to future LilyPond versions.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 

-- 

Cameron Horsburgh

Blog: http://spiritcry.wordpress.com/


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Re: Newbie question about variable durations

[Rune Zedeler]

(going back on list)

Ben Fagin skrev:

I've revised my implementation to set up
variables using the make-pitch function instead of variables and it
works now. Thank you!


Now that I think about it, you do not have to use make-pitch. You can 
extract the pitch information from a note, like this:


%%% BEGIN %%%
\version "2.10.0"

#(define (getpitch mus)
  (ly:music-property
   (car (ly:music-property
 (car (ly:music-property mus 'elements))
 'elements))
   'pitch))

myPitchnames = #`(
(myowndeepceses . ,(getpitch #{ ceses, #} ))
(myownf . ,(getpitch #{ f' #}))
)

pitchnames = #(append pitchnames myPitchnames)
#(ly:parser-set-note-names parser pitchnames)

{
  c' d' e' f' myowndeepceses2 g'4 a' myownf1
}
%%% END %%%

-Rune



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Re: Newbie question about variable durations

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op zaterdag 3 november 2007, schreef Ben:
> I thought I had this figured out, but now I'm stuck. My program generates
> midi notes and converts them to lily variables (ie noteone = {ees'} ). What
> I need to do next is add my durations onto them. It seems so simple but I
> get error after error.

Yes, you can't simply write
\noteone4
to get ees'4 when \noteone is set to {ees'}

this has bitten me as well, and it is caused by the fact that \noteone is not 
just some string, but a fully-fledged music expression.

I have no simple solution. I think it would involve writing a small scheme 
function to take a music expr and replaces it's duration.

You could maybe look at 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.11/Documentation/user/lilypond/Music-functions


Met vriendelijke groet,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl/
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
-- Mahatma Gandi


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Re: Newbie question about variable durations

[Rune Zedeler]

Ben skrev:

I thought I had this figured out, but now I'm stuck. My program generates midi
notes and converts them to lily variables (ie noteone = {ees'} ). What I need to
do next is add my durations onto them. It seems so simple but I get error after
error.


I don't understand what you are using it for.
Why will you put a single notename into a variable?
Could you elaborate a bit more on your project?

-Rune


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Re: Newbie Question about cadenzas

[Mats Bengtsson]

Did you search for "hidden note" in the index to the manual?
You may also want to use the feature described in the section on
"Scaling Durations".

/Mats

Silouan wrote:

Everything is just about perfect!  Thank you again for your help.  I have
(hopefully) one last question.  I need to put in a number between the verses
in the lyrics, but there won't be a note above the number.  I tried to
enclose the number in a string with the last syllable of the verse, but the
note above was centered above the entire string, instead of over the last
syllable.  Is this possible to do? I've been trying to find a "hidden note"
or some such to take up the space...

Thanks,
Silouan



Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
  

I have not had the need to use whichBar yet, so I had to look it up too ;)



Silouan wrote:


Thank you thank you thank you thank you!

I had assumed (I know--bad idea) that the whichBar was associated with
the removal of the time signature.  Shows what I know!  It looks great! 


Thanks again!

Silouan


Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
  

Your example prints the bar lines if you simply comment out the line
that says:

whichBar = #""

at the layout staff scope level.

Setting whichBar at staff level seems to override your already correct
\bar "|" statements.




Silouan wrote:


I've just started learning Lilypond and am very excited about the
possibilities!  What I am trying to do is to typeset music that we use
in our church services (Greek Orthodox).  The entire service is a
cadenza!  Everything (so far) is working well, except that I can't seem
to find how to insert a bar line at particular points in the service. 
I've searched to no avail.  Can anyone tell me, please, how to insert

bars at manual places in a cadenza? Here's what I have so far.  I'm
willing to make any changes suggested; I've pieced this together from
the documentation and some things I've found on the net.  Many thanks
in advance!

Silouan



\version "2.6.3"

melody = \relative c' { \clef alto
\cadenzaOn c4 c d2 ( e2 ) c4 c c c d e f2 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
\cadenzaOn e4 e e e e e d2 c1 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
}

text = \lyricmode {
In Thy king __ dom re -- mem -- ber us, O Lord,
when Thou com -- est in Thy king -- dom.
}

\header {
title ="The Beatitudes"
subtitle = "1st Tone"
tagline = ""
}

\score {
<<
\context Voice = one {
\melody
}
\lyricsto "one" \new Lyrics \text
>>

\layout {
\context {
\Staff
whichBar = #""
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
}
}
}


  

  



  


--
=
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Signal Processing
Signals, Sensors and Systems
Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
   Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Newbie Question about cadenzas

[Silouan]

Everything is just about perfect!  Thank you again for your help.  I have
(hopefully) one last question.  I need to put in a number between the verses
in the lyrics, but there won't be a note above the number.  I tried to
enclose the number in a string with the last syllable of the verse, but the
note above was centered above the entire string, instead of over the last
syllable.  Is this possible to do? I've been trying to find a "hidden note"
or some such to take up the space...

Thanks,
Silouan



Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
> 
> I have not had the need to use whichBar yet, so I had to look it up too ;)
> 
> 
> 
> Silouan wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you thank you thank you thank you!
>> 
>> I had assumed (I know--bad idea) that the whichBar was associated with
>> the removal of the time signature.  Shows what I know!  It looks great! 
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> 
>> Silouan
>> 
>> 
>> Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your example prints the bar lines if you simply comment out the line
>>> that says:
>>> 
>>> whichBar = #""
>>> 
>>> at the layout staff scope level.
>>> 
>>> Setting whichBar at staff level seems to override your already correct
>>> \bar "|" statements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Silouan wrote:
 
 I've just started learning Lilypond and am very excited about the
 possibilities!  What I am trying to do is to typeset music that we use
 in our church services (Greek Orthodox).  The entire service is a
 cadenza!  Everything (so far) is working well, except that I can't seem
 to find how to insert a bar line at particular points in the service. 
 I've searched to no avail.  Can anyone tell me, please, how to insert
 bars at manual places in a cadenza? Here's what I have so far.  I'm
 willing to make any changes suggested; I've pieced this together from
 the documentation and some things I've found on the net.  Many thanks
 in advance!
 
 Silouan
 
 
 
 \version "2.6.3"
 
 melody = \relative c' { \clef alto
\cadenzaOn c4 c d2 ( e2 ) c4 c c c d e f2 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
\cadenzaOn e4 e e e e e d2 c1 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
 }
 
 text = \lyricmode {
In Thy king __ dom re -- mem -- ber us, O Lord,
when Thou com -- est in Thy king -- dom.
 }
 
 \header {
title ="The Beatitudes"
subtitle = "1st Tone"
tagline = ""
 }
 
 \score {
<<
\context Voice = one {
\melody
}
\lyricsto "one" \new Lyrics \text
>>
 
\layout {
\context {
\Staff
whichBar = #""
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
}
}
 }
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Newbie-Question-about-cadenzas-tf2420982.html#a6789887
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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Re: Newbie Question about cadenzas

[Silouan]

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!

I had assumed (I know--bad idea) that the whichBar was associated with the
removal of the time signature.  Shows what I know!  It looks great! 

Thanks again!

Silouan


Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
> 
> Your example prints the bar lines if you simply comment out the line that
> says:
> 
> whichBar = #""
> 
> at the layout staff scope level.
> 
> Setting whichBar at staff level seems to override your already correct
> \bar "|" statements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silouan wrote:
>> 
>> I've just started learning Lilypond and am very excited about the
>> possibilities!  What I am trying to do is to typeset music that we use in
>> our church services (Greek Orthodox).  The entire service is a cadenza! 
>> Everything (so far) is working well, except that I can't seem to find how
>> to insert a bar line at particular points in the service.  I've searched
>> to no avail.  Can anyone tell me, please, how to insert bars at manual
>> places in a cadenza? Here's what I have so far.  I'm willing to make any
>> changes suggested; I've pieced this together from the documentation and
>> some things I've found on the net.  Many thanks in advance!
>> 
>> Silouan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> \version "2.6.3"
>> 
>> melody = \relative c' { \clef alto
>>  \cadenzaOn c4 c d2 ( e2 ) c4 c c c d e f2 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
>>  \cadenzaOn e4 e e e e e d2 c1 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
>> }
>> 
>> text = \lyricmode {
>>  In Thy king __ dom re -- mem -- ber us, O Lord,
>>  when Thou com -- est in Thy king -- dom.
>> }
>> 
>> \header {
>>  title ="The Beatitudes"
>>  subtitle = "1st Tone"
>>  tagline = ""
>> }
>> 
>> \score {
>>  <<
>>  \context Voice = one {
>>  \melody
>>  }
>>  \lyricsto "one" \new Lyrics \text
>>  >>
>> 
>>  \layout {
>>  \context {
>>  \Staff
>>  whichBar = #""
>>  \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
>>  }
>>  }
>> }
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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Re: Newbie Question about cadenzas

[Rick Hansen (aka RickH)]

I have not had the need to use whichBar yet, so I had to look it up too ;)



Silouan wrote:
> 
> Thank you thank you thank you thank you!
> 
> I had assumed (I know--bad idea) that the whichBar was associated with the
> removal of the time signature.  Shows what I know!  It looks great! 
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Silouan
> 
> 
> Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
>> 
>> Your example prints the bar lines if you simply comment out the line that
>> says:
>> 
>> whichBar = #""
>> 
>> at the layout staff scope level.
>> 
>> Setting whichBar at staff level seems to override your already correct
>> \bar "|" statements.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Silouan wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've just started learning Lilypond and am very excited about the
>>> possibilities!  What I am trying to do is to typeset music that we use
>>> in our church services (Greek Orthodox).  The entire service is a
>>> cadenza!  Everything (so far) is working well, except that I can't seem
>>> to find how to insert a bar line at particular points in the service. 
>>> I've searched to no avail.  Can anyone tell me, please, how to insert
>>> bars at manual places in a cadenza? Here's what I have so far.  I'm
>>> willing to make any changes suggested; I've pieced this together from
>>> the documentation and some things I've found on the net.  Many thanks in
>>> advance!
>>> 
>>> Silouan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> \version "2.6.3"
>>> 
>>> melody = \relative c' { \clef alto
>>> \cadenzaOn c4 c d2 ( e2 ) c4 c c c d e f2 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
>>> \cadenzaOn e4 e e e e e d2 c1 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
>>> }
>>> 
>>> text = \lyricmode {
>>> In Thy king __ dom re -- mem -- ber us, O Lord,
>>> when Thou com -- est in Thy king -- dom.
>>> }
>>> 
>>> \header {
>>> title ="The Beatitudes"
>>> subtitle = "1st Tone"
>>> tagline = ""
>>> }
>>> 
>>> \score {
>>> <<
>>> \context Voice = one {
>>> \melody
>>> }
>>> \lyricsto "one" \new Lyrics \text
>>> >>
>>> 
>>> \layout {
>>> \context {
>>> \Staff
>>> whichBar = #""
>>> \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
>>> }
>>> }
>>> }
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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Re: Newbie Question about cadenzas

[Rick Hansen (aka RickH)]

Your example prints the bar lines if you simply comment out the line that
says:

whichBar = #""

at the layout staff scope level.

Setting whichBar at staff level seems to override your already correct \bar
"|" statements.




Silouan wrote:
> 
> I've just started learning Lilypond and am very excited about the
> possibilities!  What I am trying to do is to typeset music that we use in
> our church services (Greek Orthodox).  The entire service is a cadenza! 
> Everything (so far) is working well, except that I can't seem to find how
> to insert a bar line at particular points in the service.  I've searched
> to no avail.  Can anyone tell me, please, how to insert bars at manual
> places in a cadenza? Here's what I have so far.  I'm willing to make any
> changes suggested; I've pieced this together from the documentation and
> some things I've found on the net.  Many thanks in advance!
> 
> Silouan
> 
> 
> 
> \version "2.6.3"
> 
> melody = \relative c' { \clef alto
>   \cadenzaOn c4 c d2 ( e2 ) c4 c c c d e f2 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
>   \cadenzaOn e4 e e e e e d2 c1 \cadenzaOff \bar "|"
> }
> 
> text = \lyricmode {
>   In Thy king __ dom re -- mem -- ber us, O Lord,
>   when Thou com -- est in Thy king -- dom.
> }
> 
> \header {
>   title ="The Beatitudes"
>   subtitle = "1st Tone"
>   tagline = ""
> }
> 
> \score {
>   <<
>   \context Voice = one {
>   \melody
>   }
>   \lyricsto "one" \new Lyrics \text
>   >>
> 
>   \layout {
>   \context {
>   \Staff
>   whichBar = #""
>   \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
>   }
>   }
> }
> 
> 

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Re: Newbie question on abc2ly

[Mats Bengtsson]

Please always tell what LilyPond version you are using when you send
a question to the mailing list.
There has been some recent discussions about bugs and limitations
in abc2ly on the mailing list, check the mailing list archives
for lilypond-devel and bug-lilypond.
   /Mats
Chuck Boody wrote:
Well, I said I wasn't any great shakes at lilypond :->
I can invoke abc2ly and the result is a file I can see has been changed 
to what I believe is lilypond  syntax.  Clearly however this file needs 
proper header information and other things to allow lilypond to process 
it.  If I try to process the file I get "warning:Needs music in a score."

Could someone point me to the right spot in the documentation to 
discover what I need to do or perhaps provide a shell that I could use 
as a starting point?

Many Thanks,
Chuck Boody

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--
=
Mats Bengtsson
Signal Processing
Signals, Sensors and Systems
Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=
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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Andrea Rossato]

Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
In your input file, the module in which you work is
(*anonymous-ly-0*), 
...
%% 3) switch back to (*anonymous-ly-0*)
#(define-module (*anonymous-ly-0*))
These were the missing points.
Thanks a lot for you kindness.
Happy new year.
Andrea

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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Nicolas Sceaux]

Andrea Rossato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
>> You can do
>> #(define-module (lily))
>> #(export accidental->markup)
>> #(define-module (*anonymous-ly-0*))
>> at the beginning of your file, or alternatively, copy and paste the
>> `accidental->markup' definition from scm/accidental->markup to your
>> input file.
>
> yes, both methods work perfectly.
> Thank you very much.
>
> I'll now try to understand the hows and whys...;-)

The code in scm/chords.scm defines functions in the module named
(lily). Some symbols are exported (the one introduced by
`define-public'), thus they are part of the module interface, whereas
some other are internal (the one introduced by `define').

`accidental->markup' is simply `define'd, not `define-public'ed, so
this function is only accessible inside the (lily) module.

In your input file, the module in which you work is
(*anonymous-ly-0*), which "uses" the module (lily), that is to say it
can use symbols that are exported by the (lily) module, which is not
the case of `accidental->markup'. That's why we first exported it in
the (lily) module:

%% 1) switch to the (lily) module
#(define-module (lily))

%% 2) export accidental->markup so that it can be used outside (lily)
%% this is as if it had been defined using `define-public' iso
%% `define'.
#(export accidental->markup)

%% 3) switch back to (*anonymous-ly-0*)
#(define-module (*anonymous-ly-0*))

The second solution consisted in defining inside the module
(*anonymous-ly-0*) a function called accidental->markup, that can be
called inside (*anonymous-ly-0*).

nicolas



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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Andrea Rossato]

Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
You can do
#(define-module (lily))
#(export accidental->markup)
#(define-module (*anonymous-ly-0*))
at the beginning of your file, or alternatively, copy and paste the
`accidental->markup' definition from scm/accidental->markup to your
input file.
yes, both methods work perfectly.
Thank you very much.
I'll now try to understand the hows and whys...;-)
andrea

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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Nicolas Sceaux]

Andrea Rossato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I get:
>
> prova.ly:8:8: In expression (accidental->markup (ly:pitch-alteration
> pitch)):
> prova.ly:8:8: Unbound variable: accidental->markup
>
> The very same function in chord-name.scm works perfectly.
> I'm I missing something?

Ok sorry.
That's because `accidental->markup' is not exported from the module
where it is defined, ie (lily).

You can do

#(define-module (lily))
#(export accidental->markup)
#(define-module (*anonymous-ly-0*))

at the beginning of your file, or alternatively, copy and paste the
`accidental->markup' definition from scm/accidental->markup to your
input file.

nicolas



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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Andrea Rossato]

Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
Putting the sharp sign should really do it:
#(define-public (note-name->italian-markup pitch)
Thanks Nicolas for your kind attention.
But this does not actually work.
Ideed, when compiling this file:
%%%
\version "2.4.2"
#(define-public (note-name->itamarkup pitch)
   "Return Italian pitch markup for PITCH."
   (make-line-markup
 (list
   (make-simple-markup
 (vector-ref #("Do" "Re" "Mi" "Fa" "Sol" "La" "Si")
 (ly:pitch-notename pitch)))
   (accidental->markup (ly:pitch-alteration pitch)
notes =  \relative c' {
  \key c \major
  a4
  b
  c2
  \bar "|."
}
mychords = {
  \chordmode {
c1
  }
}
\score {
<<
\context ChordNames {
  \set chordRootNamer = #note-name->itamarkup
  \mychords
}
\context Voice \notes
>>
\midi  { \tempo 4=182 }
\layout { }
}
%%
I get:
Interpreting music... Backtrace:
In unknown file:
   ?:  0* [lilypond-main ("prova.ly")]
In /usr/share/lilypond/2.4.2/scm/lily.scm:
 337:  1* (let* ((failed #) (handler #)) (for-each (lambda # #) files) ...)
 339:  2* [for-each # ("prova.ly")]
In /usr/share/guile/1.6/srfi/srfi-1.scm:
 652:  3  (if (null? rest) (letrec ((lp #)) (lp list1)) ...)
...
 656:  4  (begin (f (car l)) (lp (cdr l)))
 657:  5* [# "prova.ly"]
In /usr/share/lilypond/2.4.2/scm/lily.scm:
 341:  6  [catch ly-file-failed # #]
In unknown file:
   ?:  7* [#]
In /usr/share/lilypond/2.4.2/scm/lily.scm:
 341:  8* [ly:parse-file "prova.ly"]
In /usr/share/lilypond/2.4.2/ly/init.ly:
   7:  9* (if (pair? toplevel-scores) (ly:parser-print-book parser #))
   8: 10  [ly:parser-print-book # #]
In unknown file:
   ?: 11* [ignatzek-chord-names (# # #) () ...]
   ?: 12* (letrec (# # # # ...) (let* # #))
In /usr/share/lilypond/2.4.2/scm/chord-ignatzek-names.scm:
 236: 13  (let* (# # # # ...) (if exception # #))
...
 188: 14  (let* (# # # # ...) (set! base-stuff #) (make-line-markup 
base-stuff))
 191: 15* [note-name->itamarkup #]
In prova.ly:
   3: 16  [make-line-markup ...
   4: 17* [list (# "Do") ...
   8: 18* (accidental->markup (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))

prova.ly:8:8: In expression (accidental->markup (ly:pitch-alteration 
pitch)):
prova.ly:8:8: Unbound variable: accidental->markup

The very same function in chord-name.scm works perfectly.
I'm I missing something?
Thanks.
I wish you all a very happy new year.
Andrea

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Re: newbie question on scheme functions

[Nicolas Sceaux]

Andrea Rossato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I'm trying to find a cleaner solution: is it possible to define that
> function inside a .ly file?
>
> I tried, by adding a # before the definition,  but I get an error message.

Putting the sharp sign should really do it:

#(define-public (note-name->italian-markup pitch)
   "Return Italian pitch markup for PITCH."
   (make-line-markup
 (list
   (make-simple-markup
 (vector-ref #("Do" "Re" "Mi" "Fa" "Sol" "La" "Si")
 (ly:pitch-notename pitch)))
   (accidental->markup (ly:pitch-alteration pitch)

nicolas



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Re: newbie question

[Mark Van den Borre]

Op zo 11-04-2004, om 06:17 schreef Brian Prunka:
> When trying to use Lilypond the first time, i went through your test 
> page and get the following error when I try to run the test file:
> 
> [Brian-Prunkas-Computer:~] brianprunka% lilypond test
> GNU LilyPond 1.6.9ERROR:
   ^
This is an OLD version. Invoking LilyPond went differently with 1.6.x if
I'm not mistaken.

If I were you, I would upgrade as soon as possible. Easier syntax, extra
possibilities, higher quality output.

Mark
-- 
Mark Van den Borre
Noormannenstraat 113
3000 Leuven, BelgiÃ
+32 486 961726



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Re: newbie question

[Mats Bengtsson]

You should only apply the \autochange command to the voice that
you want to move between the staves, not to both the upper voices.
I've attached a version where the automatic stave change works.
Also, I declared an identifier for each of the voices to make
it easier to get an overview of the structure. I think this is
a very good habit, in general.
However, I have no good answer to the other problem that you
mention. What happens is that the << ... // ...>> will automatically
set the stem direction of the second voice to point downwards
(corresponding to the macro \voiceTwo).
However, when the voice moves the the lower stave, the stems should
suddenly point upwards instead. I don't know of any good solution
to this problem that should be very common when you use \autochange.
In the end, it may be that you want to do manual stave changes anyway,
in order to get them exactly where Bach put them and in order to be
able to insert a \voiceOne when shifting down to the lower stave.
You probably want a \voiceTwo command in the lowest voice as well,
at least at the bars when the second voice is in the lower stave.
/Mats

Silvio Segantini wrote:
Hi everyone!

I'm new to the list and to lilypond. Thanks to the encouraging of Nicolas
Sceaux, i made my first steps in to this program.
I was really scared by lilypond syntax, but now, after just a week-end of
practice, i realize that it IS much more easy then i thought! great!
well, now the question. It should be a really basic things, i guess, still
i'm not able to fix it. As exercise, I have begun coping  the first of
bach's Dreistimmige inventionen, but i'am not able to employ correctly the
Automatic staff changes. The third voice should be notated alternatively in
the upper or in the lower staff, depending by its texture, but in my example
doesn't move from the upper staff. What is wrong with my use of \autochange
staff?
I have successfully tried manually, with \translator Staff, but in that case
the steams were not automatically placed in the right direction.
thank very much for your help!
Silvio
% secondo.ly

\include "italiano.ly"
\header {
title = "Sinfonia 1"
composer = "Johann Sebastian Bach BWV 787"
tagline = "my first score"
}


voiceI = \notes \relative do'' {
 r16 sol la si do re mi fa sol fa sol la fa la sol fa mi2~ mi4 fad 
sol8 fa mi4 re8 mi16 fa re4~ re8 sol16 fa mi4~ mi8 mi re4~ re4. do8~ do si16 la si do 
re si sol4~ sol16 do re mi la, si la si si8. la32 si do8 sol do4~ do8 si16 la re4~ 
re16 si do re mi4~ mi8 la~ la sol~ sol fad16 mi fad sol la fad re4~ re16 sol la si mi, 
fad mi fad fad8. mi32 fad sol16 la sol fa mi re do si la si la sol la fad sol la si4~ 
si16 sol la sib la mi fa sol la si dod re mi re mi fa mi sib' la sol fa sol fa mi re 
dod re mi fa4 fad sol fa~ fa8 mi16 re mi4~ mi8 re~ re do~do si16 la si8 re sol4~ sol16 
la fa sol la4 si do sib la r16 mi re do si re mi fa sol2~ sol16 do, fa mi fa4 mi re2~ 
re16 fa mi re do2 si4 do1 \fermata \bar "|."
}

voiceII = \notes \relative do'' { r1 r16 do, re mi fa sol la si do si do re do mi re 
do si8 re~ re do~ do4 si~ si r16 re do si la4.la8 sol fa mi4 re2~ re16 fa mi re  do si 
la sol fa sol fa mi fa re mi fa mi4 r8 mi' fad4 r16 do'16 si la sol4~ sol16 sol do si 
do4 si la2~ la16 do si la sol fad mi re do re do si do la si do si4~ si16 si la sol 
fad8 r8 r4 r16 re' mi fa mi4~ mi16 r16 r8 r4 r8 la, si dod re16 re mi fa sol la si dod 
re dod re mi do mib re do sib la sib do la do sib la sol4. sol8 fa4 mi8 r8 r2 r16 fa 
sol la si do re mi fa mi fa sol fa la sol fa mi8 la8~ la sol~ sol16 do, re mi fa4~ fa 
r16 fa mi re do re do sib la4~ la8 re8~ re do~ do si16 la si do re si sol4 r16 sib la 
sol fa sol fa mi fa re mi fa mi1 }

voiceIII = \notes {do4 r8 do' si sol la si do'4 r8 si la sol la re sol,16 sol la si 
do' re' mi' fa' sol' fa' sol' la' fa' la' sol' fa' mi' fa' mi' re' do' si la sol fa 
sol fa mi fa re mi fa mi sol, la, si, do re mi fa sol fa sol la fa la sol fa  mi2~ mi4 
re do16 re do si, la, sol, fad, mi, re, mi re do si, la, sol, fa, mi, fa mi re do si, 
la, sol, fad, re, mi, fad, sol, la, si, do re do re mi do mi re do si,4 si~ si la mi8 
re do4 re16 sol fad mi re do si, la, sol, la, sol, fa, sol, mi, fa, sol, dod,8 re dod 
si, la, sol fa mi re r r4 r16 sol'16 fa' mi' re' do' sib la sol do re mi fa sol la sib 
do' sib do' re' sib re' do' sib la sol la si \clef violin do' re' mi' fa' sol' fa' 
sol' la' fa' la' sol' fa' mi'4 r4 r16 do''16 si' la' sol' fa' mi' re' \clef bass do'  
re' do' sib do' la sib do' fa sol fa mi re do si, la, sol, la sol fa mi re do sib, la, 
sib la sol fa mi re do si, sol, la, si, do re mi fa sol fa sol la fa la sol fa mi8 
fa16 sol la8 do re mi16 fa sol8 sol, do1 \fermata \bar "|."
}

\score { 
\notes
\new PianoStaff
\simultaneous {
\context Staff = "up" { 
\clef violin
 << \voiceI \\ \autochange Staff \context Voice \voiceII >> }


  

Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:02 am, Thomas Scharkowski wrote:
> Datum:Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:23:03 +0100
> Von:  Mats Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An:   Thomas Scharkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Kopie an: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff:  Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars
>
> > Take a look at
> > http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2003-10/msg00234.htm
> >l to learn how to handle the accidental placement.
>
> Thank you.
>
> > I haven't checked any references on music typesetting, but I'm
> > certain that the notation used in LilyPond for :||: repeats
> > corresponds to standard conventions. What layout did you have in
> > mind and do you have any reference where it is used?
> >
> > /Mats
>
> For repeats in the middle of a line I have the following layout in
> mind:
>
> Five elements:
>
> ":" "thin line" "heavy line" "thin line" ":"
>
> Reference: "standard notation practice", Music Publishers'
> Association of the United States, Inc. (c) 1966, 1993
> (See attachment: repeat.pdf)
>
> I have found the lilypond-practice (four elements: ":" "heavy line"
> "heavy line" ":") in Bärenreiter 320 (Bach Suite for solo Cello ed.
> Wenzinger (c)1950 now. This is why Lilypond uses it!
> I also found this in other Bärenreiter editions (e.g.J.S. Bach: Neue
> Ausgabe sämtlicher Werke), but everywhere else I looked I found the
> former.

In my copy of the Carcassi Book, engraved 1853 and typeset probably 
1924,
the old fashioned double thick is used.  I actually prefer it, but of
course the modern usage should also be available.  daveA

-- 
When you've dug yourself into a hole, the first thing you should
do is not to call for more shovels, but to *stop digging*.
Western "leaders" have had 12 years to figure Iraq out.  I did.
Why couldn't they?  Never ever lift a finger to defend despots.
D. Raleigh Arnold dra@ http://www.openguitar.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

[Thomas Scharkowski]

Datum:  Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:23:03 +0100
Von:Mats Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: Thomas Scharkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Kopie an:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff:        Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

> Take a look at
> http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2003-10/msg00234.html
> to learn how to handle the accidental placement.

Thank you.

> I haven't checked any references on music typesetting, but I'm
> certain that the notation used in LilyPond for :||: repeats
> corresponds to standard conventions. What layout did you have in
> mind and do you have any reference where it is used?
>
> /Mats

For repeats in the middle of a line I have the following layout in
mind:

Five elements:

":" "thin line" "heavy line" "thin line" ":"

Reference: "standard notation practice", Music Publishers'
Association of the United States, Inc. (c) 1966, 1993
(See attachment: repeat.pdf)

I have found the lilypond-practice (four elements: ":" "heavy line"
"heavy line" ":") in Bärenreiter 320 (Bach Suite for solo Cello ed.
Wenzinger (c)1950 now. This is why Lilypond uses it!
I also found this in other Bärenreiter editions (e.g.J.S. Bach: Neue
Ausgabe sämtlicher Werke), but everywhere else I looked I found the
former.

Thomas
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Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

[Mats Bengtsson]

Take a look at 
http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2003-10/msg00234.html
to learn how to handle the accidental placement.

I haven't checked any references on music typesetting, but I'm
certain that the notation used in LilyPond for :||: repeats
corresponds to standard conventions. What layout did you have in
mind and do you have any reference where it is used?
   /Mats

Thomas Scharkowski wrote:
Hi all,

I have made my first try with lilypond. Here is my question (I found 
no
solution in either manual or archive):

The repeat bars in both versions of the little Bach Bourrée are 
different but both wrong:

When I use the "\break" command (bourreetest1.ly), I get correct bars 
with
heavy and thin lines, but the accidential in the beginning of line 3 
is on
the wrong side.

Without "\break" (bourreetest2.ly), the thin lines are missing. The 
bar at the end of the piece is correct.

Thank you for your help.

Thomas



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\header {
% title = "Bourrée"
%subtitle = "aus der Suite e-Moll, BWV 996"
composer = "Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)"
opus="aus der Suite e-Moll, BWV 996"
piece="Bourrée"
tagline= "my very first lilypond score"
}
\include "paper20.ly"
\score {
\notes {
\time 2/2
\clef "G_8"
\key e \minor
<< { \partial 4*1 e'8 fis' | g'4 fis'8 e' dis'4 e'8 fis' b4 cis'8 dis' e'4 d'8 c' b4 a8 g fis4 g8 a8 
b a g fis e4 e'8 fis' g'4 fis'8 e' dis'4 e'8 fis' b4 cis'8 dis' e'4 d'8 c' b4 a8 g fis4.\prall g8 
\partial 4*3 2. \bar ":|:" 

\partial 4*1 b8 g | d'4 a8 c' b4 g'8 d' e'4 b8 d' c'4 b8 a gis4 a8 b c'4 b8 a a2. d'8 a 
b4 g'8 d' e'4 b8 d' c'4 a'8 e' fis'4 cis'8 e' d'4 cis'8 b ais4.\prall b8 b2. b'8 fis' 
gis'4 fis'8 e' a'4 e'8 g' fis'4 e'8 d' g'4 d'8 f' e'4 a'8 e' fis'4 cis'8 e' dis'4 b2 e'8 b 
c'4 d'8 a b4 c'8 g a4 b8 fis g4 fis8 e dis4 e8 fis g4 fis8[ e] \partial 4*3 e2. \bar ":|"
}

\\ { g,8 fis, e,4 a, b, a, g, fis, e, fis, g, a, b, a, 
g, b, e,8 fis, g, fis, e,4 a, b, a, g , fis, e, fis, g, c d d, g,2.
g,4 fis, d g, b, c gis, a, d e a, e e, a,8 b, a, g, fis,4 d
g, b, c gis, a, cis d ais, b, e fis fis, b,8 ais, b, cis dis4 b,
e d cis a, d c b, g, c b, a, fis, b,4. c8 b, a, gis,4  
a,8 e fis4 g,8 dis e4 fis,8 cis dis4 e, a, b, a, b,2 e,2. 
} >>

  }

\paper {
linewidth=17.5 \cm
%orientation = "landscape"
}
\midi {\tempo 2=104}
} 



\header {
% title = "Bourrée"
%subtitle = "aus der Suite e-Moll, BWV 996"
composer = "Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)"
opus="aus der Suite e-Moll, BWV 996"
piece="Bourrée"
tagline= "my very first lilypond score"
}
\include "paper20.ly"
\score {
\notes {
\time 2/2
\clef "G_8"
\key e \minor
<< { \partial 4*1 e'8 fis' | g'4 fis'8 e' dis'4 e'8 fis' b4 cis'8 dis' e'4 d'8 c' b4 a8 g fis4 g8 a8 
b a g fis e4 e'8 fis' g'4 fis'8 e' dis'4 e'8 fis' b4 cis'8 dis' e'4 d'8 c' b4 a8 g fis4.\prall g8 
\partial 4*3 2. \bar ":|:" \break

\partial 4*1 b8 g | d'4 a8 c' b4 g'8 d' e'4 b8 d' c'4 b8 a gis4 a8 b c'4 b8 a a2. d'8 a 
b4 g'8 d' e'4 b8 d' c'4 a'8 e' fis'4 cis'8 e' d'4 cis'8 b ais4.\prall b8 b2. b'8 fis' 
gis'4 fis'8 e' a'4 e'8 g' fis'4 e'8 d' g'4 d'8 f' e'4 a'8 e' fis'4 cis'8 e' dis'4 b2 e'8 b 
c'4 d'8 a b4 c'8 g a4 b8 fis g4 fis8 e dis4 e8 fis g4 fis8[ e] \partial 4*3 e2. \bar ":|"
}

\\ { g,8 fis, e,4 a, b, a, g, fis, e, fis, g, a, b, a, 
g, b, e,8 fis, g, fis, e,4 a, b, a, g , fis, e, fis, g, c d d, g,2.
g,4 fis, d g, b, c gis, a, d e a, e e, a,8 b, a, g, fis,4 d
g, b, c gis, a, cis d ais, b, e fis fis, b,8 ais, b, cis dis4 b,
e d cis a, d c b, g, c b, a, fis, b,4. c8 b, a, gis,4  
a,8 e fis4 g,8 dis e4 fis,8 cis dis4 e, a, b, a, b,2 e,2. 
} >>

  }

\paper {
linewidth=17.5 \cm
%orientation = "landscape"
}
\midi {\tempo 2=104}
} 



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Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

[Thomas Scharkowski]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> Why not use \repeat volta 2 {...} instead of \bar ? daveA
> 
Thank you for the hint, but this gave the same result.

The accidential in line 3 is on the wrong side of the repeat bar, 
should be next to the clef!

Thomas

P.S: I forgot: "Lilypond 2.0.1, Cygwin, Win98SE"


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Re: Newbie question: Repeat bars

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Sunday 02 November 2003 11:28 am, Thomas Scharkowski wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have made my first try with lilypond. Here is my question (I found
> no
> solution in either manual or archive):
>
> The repeat bars in both versions of the little Bach Bourrée are
> different but both wrong:
>
> When I use the "\break" command (bourreetest1.ly), I get correct bars
> with
> heavy and thin lines, but the accidential in the beginning of line 3
> is on
> the wrong side.
>
> Without "\break" (bourreetest2.ly), the thin lines are missing. The
> bar at the end of the piece is correct.
>
> Thank you for your help.

Why not use \repeat volta 2 {...} instead of \bar ? daveA

-- 
When you've dug yourself into a hole, the first thing you should
do is not to call for more shovels, but to *stop digging*.
Western "leaders" have had 12 years to figure Iraq out.  I did.
Why couldn't they?  Never ever lift a finger to defend despots.
D. Raleigh Arnold dra@ http://www.openguitar.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Newbie question

[Mats Bengtsson]

Did you look at the section on "An orchestral part" in the Tutorial?
There's no right or wrong here, in addition to the tutorial, you could
also get some hints by looking at files at
http://www.mutopiaproject.org/
   /Mats

Bernard Meylan wrote:
After a time of practice, I wish now to enter a bigger orchestral piece. 
I don't no exactly the right following order; firts the parts and after 
the score? Or otherwise? And what is the best way to make a .ly file so 
"clean" and precisely possible?

I have no see any explanation of this subject on the web. Can somebody 
help my or give a right direction?

Many thanks.

Bernard



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Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
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Re: Newbie question

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Saturday 20 September 2003 08:38 am, Bernard Meylan wrote:
> After a time of practice, I wish now to enter a bigger orchestral
> piece. I don't no exactly the right following order; firts the parts
> and after the score? Or otherwise? And what is the best way to make a
> .ly file so "clean" and precisely possible?

Sly is for big projects.  Make your .ly files and then
enter all the notes at once for each section: brass,
strings, etc., in a .sly file in this format:

part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.
part1 | part2 | part3 | etc.

$ sly filename brass

creates brass-pt1.ly, brass-pt2.ly, etc.
from filename.sly  Use \include to
put them in your scores.  It is probably
most convenient to put a measure of each
part on each line.

When done, you might write some or all of
the parts into the score with lyinclude
so that you have everything in one huge file.
I don't know whether there is any advantage
to the fact that the parts are already
extracted.

One of the parts could be a dummy with
measure numbers in it.  If you don't
\include it, lilypond will never see it.
daveA 

-- 
Why should any country entrust its young people to the leadership of 
the same
geniuses who *invaded the wrong country*?  Answer: Money.  The U.S. is 
broke,
and stiffed Gulf War "partners".  *U.S.* troops and vets *don't* trust 
Bush.
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Re: Newbie question

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:57:16 -0300
Ricardo Kirkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Please provide an example and tell us what version you're using.  Are you
> > setting the midiInstrument property instead of instrument?
> 
> here is a part of my source file

Sorry, could you provide a complete example (so that I can easily compile
it on my own)?  I suspect that you're doing something wierd in the layout
of your lilypond file, and to check that I'll need to see the whole thing.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Newbie question

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:49:11 +1200
Warren Stickney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I use two global sections, one for paper and one for midi (to give me tempo
> changes without getting warning messages about junking tempo request) as in
> a typical example below:

BTW, now that metronome markings have been added to 1.8.x, you don't need to
seperate global tempo changes from the rest of global stuff.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Newbie question

[Warren Stickney]

Ricardo,

I used to get these warnings too, but I think I'm correct in saying that
they ceased when I started using separate score blocks for paper and midi
output.  (Lily 1.8.1 under cygwin).

I use two global sections, one for paper and one for midi (to give me tempo
changes without getting warning messages about junking tempo request) as in
a typical example below:

globalpaper = \notes {
\key f \major
\time 3/4
\skip 2.*8
\time 1/2
\skip 2*1
\time 2/2
\skip 1*12
\bar "|."
}

globalmidi = \notes {
\repeat volta 2 {
\tempo 2.=72
\skip 2.*8 }
\tempo 2=72
\skip 2*1
\repeat volta 2 {
\skip 1*10 }
\alternative {{ s1 }{ s1 }}
}

Then

voiceSopA = some notes
wordsSopA = some lyrics

etc for other voices, then I incorporate global paper within the voice
definitions

SopranoA = \notes <
 \addlyrics
 \context Staff=SopA {
 \property Staff.instrument = "S 1  "
   \property Staff.midiInstrument = "acoustic grand"
 \VoiceDefault
 \context Voice=SopA <
   \globalpaper
   \voiceSopA
 >}
 \context Lyrics=SopA <
 \context LyricsVoice=SopAVA <
 \property LyricsVoice . stanza = "1."
 \wordsSopAVA>
 \context LyricsVoice=SopAVB <
 \property LyricsVoice . stanza = "2."
 \wordsSopAVB>
 > >

etc for the other voices, and finally score block for paper output only

\score {  \notes \transpose c c
  \context ChoirStaff = All <
  \context InnerChoirStaff = Sops <
\SopranoA
\SopranoB
  >
\Tenor
>

 \paper {
  textheight = 25.0\cm
  interscoreline = 10.0\mm
  interscorelinefill = 1
\translator {
   \ScoreContext
   breakAlignOrder = #'(
instrument-name
left-edge
ambitus
span-bar
breathing-sign
clef
key-signature
staff-bar
time-signature
custos
  )
}
\translator {
   \VoiceContext
   \consists Ambitus_engraver
  }
  \translator{
  \ScoreContext StanzaNumber \override #'break-align-symbol
= #'begin-of-note }
 }
}

and a score block for midi only

\score { \notes \transpose c c
 \apply #unfold-repeats <
\globalmidi
\SopranoA
\SopranoB
\Tenor
>
 \midi { \tempo 2=108 }
}



Warren Stickney
Wellington,
New Zealand

Replying to your:

----------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:57:16 -0300
From: "Ricardo Kirkner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Newbie question
To: "Graham Percival" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> > | some notes | == 1 bracket
>
> Ah, I see.  In North America, a "bracket" is normally called a "bar".
>

first of all, thank you for correcting my terminology. at least now I can
refer to this term correctly :-)

> Please provide an example and tell us what version you're using.  Are you
> setting the midiInstrument property instead of instrument?
>

here is a part of my source file


theMusic = \context Score
 <
  \context ChoirStaff = Choir <
   \context Staff = SopranoStaffOne <
   \property Staff.instrument = #"Soprano"
   \addlyrics
 \context Voice = SopranoOneVoice { \SopranoOneNotes }
 \context Lyrics = SopranoOneLyrics { \SopranoOneLyrics }
   >
... here go other voices ...
>
>

the output I get is:

Interpreting music...
MIDI output to 'test.ly'
Track ... warning: no such instrument: 'soprano'

I know it is just a warning, but I would like not to have it. :-)

i am using lilypond version 1.8.1 (under cygwin)

i appreciate your help

ricardo

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Re: Newbie question

[Ricardo Kirkner]

> > | some notes | == 1 bracket
>
> Ah, I see.  In North America, a "bracket" is normally called a "bar".
>

first of all, thank you for correcting my terminology. at least now I can
refer to this term correctly :-)

> Please provide an example and tell us what version you're using.  Are you
> setting the midiInstrument property instead of instrument?
>

here is a part of my source file


theMusic = \context Score
 <
  \context ChoirStaff = Choir <
   \context Staff = SopranoStaffOne <
   \property Staff.instrument = #"Soprano"
   \addlyrics
 \context Voice = SopranoOneVoice { \SopranoOneNotes }
 \context Lyrics = SopranoOneLyrics { \SopranoOneLyrics }
   >
... here go other voices ...
>
>

the output I get is:

Interpreting music...
MIDI output to 'test.ly'
Track ... warning: no such instrument: 'soprano'

I know it is just a warning, but I would like not to have it. :-)

i am using lilypond version 1.8.1 (under cygwin)

i appreciate your help

ricardo




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Re: Newbie question

[Hans Forbrich]

Your Question 1:

Historically it has been considerd a bad idea to keep the bar spacing
the same between 'lines', presumably because it is wasy to lose track of
which 'line' you are reading.  Most music publishers/typesetters I have
seen will actually go out their way to ensure the lengths are not the
same.  However, you can make certain adjustments using the "\break"
command to tell Lilypond how many bars (brackets) you have on a line.
Also you may notice the space allocated is influenced by the number of
'note positions'.  So you could come close by having a set of
'invisible' 16th or 32nd notes in each bar and terminating each 'line'
with a \break.

Your Question 3:
Suggestions:

1) Ask away.  This is the only way the documentation writers will know
what is frequently asked so they can adjust the documents based on
popularity of questions.  (I think you'll find that this is one of the
friendlier mail lists around.)

2) Look at the 'examples', the 'regression tests' and 'tips and tricks'
referenced by the appropriate documentation page from
http://www.lilypond.org.  Most popular, and many obscure, constructs
seem to be there so you can look up the style visually and then click on
the file name to see how it's done.  You could use the following
patterns for the links:

 http://lilypond.org/doc/vXXX/input/template/out-www/collated-files.html

 http://lilypond.org/doc/vXXX/examples.html
 http://lilypond.org/doc/vXXX/input/regression/out-www/collated-files.html

 http://lilypond.org/doc/vXXX/input/test/out-www/collated-files.html

(replacing vXXX with v1.6, v1.8, v1.9 as appropriate)

3) Experiment.  I have yet to see anything in the input that will break
Lilypond.  (Things may not run or work the way I expect, but it won't
actually damage the computer or the program!)

4) Search the Lilypond archives - a convenient search field is on the
http://www.lilypond.org page.
 Hope this helps
/Hans



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Re: Newbie question

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:14:45 -0300
Ricardo Kirkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 1- How do you tell lilypond to typeset all brackets of equal lenghts
> > > (or at least not each bracket out of two on a different lenght).
> >
> > I don't know what you mean by this.  Could you give an example?
> 
> I that lily prints something like this (in ascii)
> 
> | some notes | == 1 bracket

Ah, I see.  In North America, a "bracket" is normally called a "bar".
 
> ||||||||

You can force that behaviour by including invisible sixteenth notes
in every bar.  (or, if you use notes faster than a 16th, use invisible
32nds)

However, unless your needs are quite special (such as producing a worksheet
for students to fill in), I don't recommend doing this.  LilyPond does a
great job of spacing music beautifully.

> > > 2- How do you put some words before the Staff and get no errors in the
> > > process (i have tried to use the instrument property, but then lily
> > > claims the word is not an instrument - in this case Soprano, for
> > > example)
> >
> > Do you mean "how do you name an instrument"?  I'm sure that's covered
> > in the manual or examples, but here it is:
> >
> > \property Staff.instrument = #"foo"
> >
> 
> I have tried exactly that, but when I compile I get warnings about foo not
> being an instrument. I know it's just a warning, but I was wondering if it
> there is another way of doing this that doesn't produce warnings.

Please provide an example and tell us what version you're using.  Are you
setting the midiInstrument property instead of instrument?

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Newbie question

[Ricardo Kirkner]

Thank you for your quick answer


> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:41:53 -0300
> Ricardo Kirkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 1- How do you tell lilypond to typeset all brackets of equal lenghts
> > (or at least not each bracket out of two on a different lenght).
>
> I don't know what you mean by this.  Could you give an example?

I that lily prints something like this (in ascii)

| some notes | == 1 bracket

| | |   |||   |   |

but I would like to get something more like this

||||||||

or at least something like this

|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

I hope this clarifies (at least a little) what I meant


>
> > 2- How do you put some words before the Staff and get no errors in the
> > process (i have tried to use the instrument property, but then lily
> > claims the word is not an instrument - in this case Soprano, for
> > example)
>
> Do you mean "how do you name an instrument"?  I'm sure that's covered
> in the manual or examples, but here it is:
>
> \property Staff.instrument = #"foo"
>

I have tried exactly that, but when I compile I get warnings about foo not
being an instrument. I know it's just a warning, but I was wondering if it
there is another way of doing this that doesn't produce warnings.

thanks anyway

ricardo





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Re: Newbie question

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:41:53 -0300
Ricardo Kirkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1- How do you tell lilypond to typeset all brackets of equal lenghts
> (or at least not each bracket out of two on a different lenght).

I don't know what you mean by this.  Could you give an example?

> 2- How do you put some words before the Staff and get no errors in the
> process (i have tried to use the instrument property, but then lily
> claims the word is not an instrument - in this case Soprano, for
> example)

Do you mean "how do you name an instrument"?  I'm sure that's covered
in the manual or examples, but here it is:

\property Staff.instrument = #"foo"

3- more generally: where can I find a useful documentation on
> how to achieve some specific stuff - i mean not that the lilypond docs

Search the Lilypond website, search the archives of this mailist, and
then ask here.  That's the order that I use.  :)

Oh, and don't forget to look at the "tricks and tips" and "regression
tests".

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: newbie question about "unaccent" symbol

[Jacob Smullyan]

On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 09:34:34PM +0200, Jeremy wrote:
> 
> JS> I'd like to mark a note as unaccented using the symbol whose use I
> JS> associate with Schoenberg, the bottom half of a flattened circle
> JS> (there must be a name for this symbol, but I don't know what it is).
> JS> How can this be done?
> 
> Have you looked at the reference manual section on articulations?
> http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Articulations.html#Articulations

I was looking for just such a page but for some reason didn't find
it.  "lheel" was what I needed.  Thanks!

Jacob S.



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Re: newbie question about "unaccent" symbol

[Jeremy]

JS> I'd like to mark a note as unaccented using the symbol whose use I
JS> associate with Schoenberg, the bottom half of a flattened circle
JS> (there must be a name for this symbol, but I don't know what it is).
JS> How can this be done?

Have you looked at the reference manual section on articulations?
http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Articulations.html#Articulations

If you cannot find the symbol you are looking for there, than you
might have to add it yourself to the Feta font, or try to "hack" it,
using techniques described here:
http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Articulations.html#Articulations

--
Best Regards,
Jeremy




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