Re: Score examples

[Hilary Snaden]

On 2013-09-02 13:50, Urs Liska wrote:
> I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
> I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of
> LilyPond scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of
> examples of out-of-the-box engraving.
> The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores
> quite good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to
> finish an edition for example, without having to bother about engraving
> details too early.
> 
> Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles.

Here's a short choral work in my current style:

https://anonfiles.com/file/9c9eaa040864f5c82c5b774ea094eb84

-- 
Hilary

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Re: Score examples

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/9/5 Simon Bailey :
> thanks. :) i'm really happy with the output. i've been developing the house
> style through the typesetting of 8-10 pieces so far, and it's starting to
> look exactly how i'd like it.

Indeed, i like this layout too!

> mac preview doesn't seem to have the issues mentioned in janek's bug report.
> either that or i'm half blind… ;) i opened it up in illustrator, at high
> levels of magnification, the stems are slightly different, but that seems to
> change if i scroll around? i haven't noticed anything on printouts yet, but
> i'll keep an eye on that.

?
The point of that bug is that is manifests itself the *most* at
medium-low zoom levels, like 100-150%.
You see, the problem is that in Acrobat Reader (and some other
viewers) some stems are 1 pixel thicker than other stems.  Exactly 1
pixel, regardless of zoom level.  If you zoom to 800%, this means that
some stems will be (for example) 9 pixels thick and some 10 pixels
thick - that's a small difference.  On 100% zoom, however, some stems
will be 1 pixel thick and other 2 pixels thick - that's two times
thicker!

This is also why this issue is almost invisible in printouts - they
have high resolution, so the 1px difference is very small.

Fortunately, there is a chance that this issue will be fixed - David
Kastrup investigated it for some time.  It's a complicated area and
there are side-effets, for example pdf filesize is increased (that's
why the fix wasn't added to official Lilypond distribution yet - it's
still experimental).  However, i've been using it for a few months now
and i really like the results.

best,
Janek

PS if you have access to a Linux box (could be Ubuntu in a virtual
machine) and you'd like to try this experimental fix, i could show you
how.

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Re: Score examples

[Tim Roberts]

Janek Warchoł wrote:
> 2013/9/4 Tim Roberts :
>> Simon Bailey  wrote:
>>> publication quality (i think): http://nota.bailey.at/achtsamkeit.pdf
>> In Acrobat, this is lovely.
> Except that it probably suffers from
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2658, doesn't it?

Yes, under magnification, it does.

-- 
Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


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Re: Score examples

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/9/4 Tim Roberts :
> Simon Bailey  wrote:
>> publication quality (i think): http://nota.bailey.at/achtsamkeit.pdf
>
> In Acrobat, this is lovely.

Except that it probably suffers from
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2658, doesn't it?
(i don't have Acrobat on my Ubuntu, but it always behaved like that...)

Janek

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Re: Score examples

[Tim Roberts]

Simon Bailey  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Urs Liska  > wrote:
>
> If it's 'publication quality' it should of course be as beautiful
> as possible.
> If it's out-of-the-box it should of course _be_ untweaked. It may
> well have deficiencies but should show the superior legibility of
> all LilyPond scores.
> I would also call it out-of-the-box if there is a general 'house'
> style sheet applied. Maybe I'll have a third group with such examples.
>
>
> publication quality (i think): http://nota.bailey.at/achtsamkeit.pdf

In Acrobat, this is lovely.  The Firefox built-in PDF reader cuts off
the left half of the segno and coda symbols.  I submitted this as a bug
report to the Mozilla folks.

Frankly, I'm amazed that the built-in reader does as good a job as it
does, considering it is written entirely in Javascript.

-- 
Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

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Re: Score examples

[Simon Bailey]

hi urs,


On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:

> I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
> I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of LilyPond
> scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of examples of
> out-of-the-box engraving.
> The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores
> quite good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to finish
> an edition for example, without having to bother about engraving details
> too early.
>
> Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles. Therefore
> I would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you would share
> for that purpose.
> If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for a
> kind of gallery ,-)
>
> If it's 'publication quality' it should of course be as beautiful as
> possible.
> If it's out-of-the-box it should of course _be_ untweaked. It may well
> have deficiencies but should show the superior legibility of all LilyPond
> scores.
> I would also call it out-of-the-box if there is a general 'house' style
> sheet applied. Maybe I'll have a third group with such examples.
>
>
publication quality (i think): http://nota.bailey.at/achtsamkeit.pdf

following tweaks:
- pedal symbols have been shifted slightly to give a more pleasing layout
 (self-alignment #LEFT and X-offset #-1.2) [*]
- ottava symbols redefined to be bold italic [*]
- some padding on the RehearsalMarks for segno, coda, d.s. and Coda
title. [*]
- baseline-skip in the tempo mark
- pango-font-tree uses Cronos and Kepler through typekit font sync [*]
- titling-layout has been changed a LOT to conform to my house style [*]
- \override StaffGrouper.staff-staff-spacing.basic-distance = #10

[*] -- these are all defined in a house include file with a lot of other
definitions.

regards,
sb
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Re: Score examples

[Rutger Hofman]

On 09/02/2013 02:50 PM, Urs Liska wrote:

Hi,

I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of
LilyPond scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of
examples of out-of-the-box engraving.
The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores
quite good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to
finish an edition for example, without having to bother about engraving
details too early.

Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles.
Therefore I would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you
would share for that purpose.
If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for
a kind of gallery ,-)

If it's 'publication quality' it should of course be as beautiful as
possible.
If it's out-of-the-box it should of course _be_ untweaked. It may well
have deficiencies but should show the superior legibility of all
LilyPond scores.
I would also call it out-of-the-box if there is a general 'house' style
sheet applied. Maybe I'll have a third group with such examples.


All my contributions to IMSLP are lilypond typesets as wll. See 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Hofman,_Rutger/Editor and 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Hofman,_Rutger/Arranger


All of these would be in the category out-of-the-box, with sometimes a 
very little bit of tweaking.


I think the Caplet orchestration of Debussy's 'Clair de lune' 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Suite_bergamasque_(Debussy,_Claude)#For_Orchestra_.28Caplet.29 
has most showcasing potential: harp (PianoStaff) w/ cross-staff 
arpeggios; simultaneous different time signatures; extra staff for solo 
violin; parts and score from one source; and some more, I guess. I would 
organise some things differently now, but that wouldn't change the 
typesets. (BTW, this is a ravishing piece+orchestration that deserves to 
be played much more often.)


Rutger



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Re: Score examples

[Peter Bjuhr]

Thanks, exciting!

I haven't, but maybe now is a good time to set this up!

A question, also related to David's answer about the distinction between 
engineer-friendly and user-friendly: Do you need to change the source 
code of LilyPond to make the more advanced forms of "house styles", or 
I'm misunderstanding this!?


Best
Peter

On 09/03/2013 03:54 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:

Hi,

2013/9/3 Peter Bjuhr :

Hi Janek,

I think it would be interesting to know more about of your changes to the
Feta font. Your example looks very nice, and the font can be a little heavy
I think.

I've pushed the code to dev/janek/feta-modification branch
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/dev/janek/feta-modification

Are you able to compile LilyPond from source code?
best,
Janek



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Re: Score examples

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi all,

> Btw, about 2-3 years ago I had a discussion with a Finale user who was 
> telling me that LilyPond was bad looking.

   =)

> So I've created a home-made-Finale-settings (including the Finale G clef 
> glyph) so that my Lily score looked like a Finale one.

I totally agree with the implication here: Lilypond *should* have "Finale" and 
"Sibelius" house styles, so that those users can (a) see the flexibility of 
Lilypond, and (b) perhaps be more easily swayed into taking her out for a spin.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: Score examples

[David Kastrup]

Pierre Perol-Schneider  writes:

> These are globals.
> They include :
> - re-defind header
> - line thickness (thinner)
> - ledger line thickness (thinner)
> - slurs and ties thickness (thinner)
> - bar lines thickness (thinner)
> - stem length (longer)
> - beam thickness (thicker)
> - grace notes (smaller global sizes)
> - G clef glyph
> - Tab clef glyph
> - some left hand fingerings (for ex. fing. "0" which, according to me,
> doesn't mean anything).
> hope I did not forget something...
>
> Btw, about 2-3 years ago I had a discussion with a Finale user who was
> telling me that LilyPond was bad looking.
> So I've created a home-made-Finale-settings (including the Finale G clef
> glyph) so that my Lily score looked like a Finale one.
> In your article, maybe you'll have to remind this amazing customized
> faculty LilyPond has.

Uh, it hasn't.  You are confusing the empowering combination of free
software and a reasonable amount of documentation and code factorization
with "customized faculty".

It's like calling a car "customizable" because its interiors are
well-arranged, accessible through screws and other reversible
mechanisms, there are wiring diagrams on major components of the car's
electrics and so on and so on.

That's an engineer's song of love and respect for those who are willing
to hear it.  But it is a song about engineering, not about driving.  To
make it the latter, there have to be user-level controls.  And "user" is
not the same as "entry-level engineer".  Though we _are_ trying to make
the distinction more fuzzy.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: Score examples

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi,

2013/9/3 Peter Bjuhr :
> Hi Janek,
>
> I think it would be interesting to know more about of your changes to the
> Feta font. Your example looks very nice, and the font can be a little heavy
> I think.

I've pushed the code to dev/janek/feta-modification branch
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/dev/janek/feta-modification

Are you able to compile LilyPond from source code?
best,
Janek

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Re: Score examples

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.09.2013 15:31, schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

2013/9/3 Urs Liska mailto:u...@openlilylib.org>>


Are these global styles or individual tweaks?


These are globals.
They include :
- re-defind header
- line thickness (thinner)
- ledger line thickness (thinner)
- slurs and ties thickness (thinner)
- bar lines thickness (thinner)
- stem length (longer)
- beam thickness (thicker)
- grace notes (smaller global sizes)
- G clef glyph
- Tab clef glyph
- some left hand fingerings (for ex. fing. "0" which, according to me, 
doesn't mean anything).

hope I did not forget something...


That's _perfect_ for my cause and actually amazing :-)


Btw, about 2-3 years ago I had a discussion with a Finale user who was 
telling me that LilyPond was bad looking.
So I've created a home-made-Finale-settings (including the Finale G 
clef glyph) so that my Lily score looked like a Finale one.


LOL

Best and thanks
Urs
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Re: Score examples

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

2013/9/3 Urs Liska 

>
> Are these global styles or individual tweaks?
>
>
These are globals.
They include :
- re-defind header
- line thickness (thinner)
- ledger line thickness (thinner)
- slurs and ties thickness (thinner)
- bar lines thickness (thinner)
- stem length (longer)
- beam thickness (thicker)
- grace notes (smaller global sizes)
- G clef glyph
- Tab clef glyph
- some left hand fingerings (for ex. fing. "0" which, according to me,
doesn't mean anything).
hope I did not forget something...

Btw, about 2-3 years ago I had a discussion with a Finale user who was
telling me that LilyPond was bad looking.
So I've created a home-made-Finale-settings (including the Finale G clef
glyph) so that my Lily score looked like a Finale one.
In your article, maybe you'll have to remind this amazing customized
faculty LilyPond has.

Cheers,
Pierre
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Re: Score examples

[Peter Bjuhr]

Hi Janek,

I think it would be interesting to know more about of your changes to 
the Feta font. Your example looks very nice, and the font can be a 
little heavy I think.


Best
Peter Bjuhr


On 09/02/2013 03:59 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:

Hi,

2013/9/2 Urs Liska :

Hi,

I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of LilyPond
scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of examples of
out-of-the-box engraving.
The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores quite
good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to finish an
edition for example, without having to bother about engraving details too
early.

github.com/janek-warchol/warsztat-nutowy/tree/master/epifania/Eja%20Mater
I believe it's close to publication quality, a good example of
lilypond at work.  As a bonus, if you clone the repository and do 'git
log epifania/Eja\ Mater/' you'll see all beautifications and
corrections in separate commits.  It should be easy to see how the
score looked at various levels of beautification.

Ah, and there's also
github.com/janek-warchol/warsztat-nutowy/blob/master/epifania/Eja%20Mater%20klarnet.ly
.


Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles. Therefore I
would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you would share for
that purpose.
If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for a
kind of gallery ,-)

Recently I was asked to create some simple SATB scores and the
composer said that the LilyPond font looked too heavy, so i made some
modifications to the Feta font. You can see the result here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpsi9pzu1klpcq1/Eja-Mater.pdf (warning: the
link won't be up permanently).
I can share the changes to the Feta font if someone is interested.

best,
Janek

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Re: Score examples

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.09.2013 11:43, schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

Hi Urs,

Here's some of my scores that I share on IMSLP :
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Perol-Schneider,_Pierre/Editor

Please note that I use lots of house made settings ; scores do not 
realy "look" like LilyPond scores.


Maybe you'll find something intersting here :

- 
http://imslp.org/wiki/3_Piezas_f%C3%A1ciles,_Op.19_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador) 
 
(score and tab)
- http://imslp.org/wiki/Estilo_Popular_Argentino_(Llobet,_Miguel) 

- http://imslp.org/wiki/El_colibr%C3%AD_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador) 



or even here (Libro 1 first lesson should be interesting) :
- 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Las_lecciones_de_guitarra_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador) 




Very nice indeed.

Could you please specify somewhat more on 'house made settings':
Are these global styles or individual tweaks?
Or do you use your global styles and _additionally_ tweak in detail?

I don't think this makes a difference for _that_ I can use it. But I 
want to label the examples as honestly as possible.


Best
Urs

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Re: Score examples

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Urs,

Here's some of my scores that I share on IMSLP :
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Perol-Schneider,_Pierre/Editor

Please note that I use lots of house made settings ; scores do not realy
"look" like LilyPond scores.

Maybe you'll find something intersting here :

-
http://imslp.org/wiki/3_Piezas_f%C3%A1ciles,_Op.19_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador)(score
and tab)
- http://imslp.org/wiki/Estilo_Popular_Argentino_(Llobet,_Miguel)
- http://imslp.org/wiki/El_colibr%C3%AD_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador)

or even here (Libro 1 first lesson should be interesting) :
- http://imslp.org/wiki/Las_lecciones_de_guitarra_(Sagreras,_Julio_Salvador)
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Re: Score examples

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.09.2013 10:23, schrieb Richard Shann:

On Tue, 2013-09-03 at 09:09 +0100, Richard Shann wrote:

Urs,


[...]

As to listing them all, I notice that many have tags which can be
clicked on (e.g. as Richard Shann/Editor or Richard Shann/Arranger) to
find more.

hmm, that was dumb of me, of course I can give the links:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Shann,_Richard/Editor

this lists 9 pieces typeset in LilyPond and

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Shann,_Richard/Arranger

lists four more - one comes into both categories I see (because the
pages contain more than one score typeset with LilyPond which have been
classified differently, I think).

Richard


Thank you, I think I have found a few examples there.

Urs

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Re: Score examples

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.09.2013 07:47, schrieb Mike Blackstock:
This trio for flute, violin and guitar is 'out-of-the-box': 
http://www.blackstockweb.ca/node/4
I dunno how to do a cres/dim on a single note very well (bar 6, flute 
- bad, but better elsewhere).


I play guitar, and don't have much of an eye for non-guitar stuff 
(long phrases and slurs placements)

-Mike


Thank you, nice example. I think there is something to be used from that.

Urs

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Re: Score examples

[Richard Shann]

On Tue, 2013-09-03 at 09:09 +0100, Richard Shann wrote:
> Urs,
> 
[...]
> 
> As to listing them all, I notice that many have tags which can be
> clicked on (e.g. as Richard Shann/Editor or Richard Shann/Arranger) to
> find more.
hmm, that was dumb of me, of course I can give the links:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Shann,_Richard/Editor

this lists 9 pieces typeset in LilyPond and

http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Shann,_Richard/Arranger

lists four more - one comes into both categories I see (because the
pages contain more than one score typeset with LilyPond which have been
classified differently, I think).

Richard



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Re: Score examples

[Richard Shann]

Urs,

All of my contributions to IMSLP are LilyPond typesets, but it would
require some work to list them and classify them. I suspect none of them
have one-off tweaks but all of them probably are in a "house style"
since they are created by Denemo.
I am not even quite sure how to reference them - for example the most
elaborate one is on the page

http://imslp.org/wiki/Pavana_%26_Galliarda_Dolorosa_%28Philips,_Peter%29

but the link that downloads the actual pdf seems to be:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/148215

This example is the least typical of my output, involves the most
adjustments which might be labelled "tweaks" (e.g. moving polyphonic
rests, crossing staffs ...), although none of these were made by
literally typing in a LilyPond tweak but instead by invoking a Denemo
command which had, of course, been created to insert the tweak in some
generalized form.

As to listing them all, I notice that many have tags which can be
clicked on (e.g. as Richard Shann/Editor or Richard Shann/Arranger) to
find more.

Finally, I know of one other contributor to IMSLP that uses LilyPond,
namely Mario Bolognani. I am not sure that he explicitly mentions this,
but I am sure he will be more than happy to help by confirming that, and
he may well have a list of his LilyPond typeset scores (which cover
orchestral stuff).

HTH

Richard


On Mon, 2013-09-02 at 14:50 +0200, Urs Liska wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
> I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of 
> LilyPond scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of 
> examples of out-of-the-box engraving.
> The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores 
> quite good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to 
> finish an edition for example, without having to bother about engraving 
> details too early.
> 
> Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles. 
> Therefore I would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you 
> would share for that purpose.
> If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for 
> a kind of gallery ,-)
> 
> If it's 'publication quality' it should of course be as beautiful as 
> possible.
> If it's out-of-the-box it should of course _be_ untweaked. It may well 
> have deficiencies but should show the superior legibility of all 
> LilyPond scores.
> I would also call it out-of-the-box if there is a general 'house' style 
> sheet applied. Maybe I'll have a third group with such examples.
> 
> TIA
> Urs
> 
> ___
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user



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Re: Score examples

[Mike Blackstock]

This trio for flute, violin and guitar is 'out-of-the-box':
http://www.blackstockweb.ca/node/4
I dunno how to do a cres/dim on a single note very well (bar 6, flute -
bad, but better elsewhere).

I play guitar, and don't have much of an eye for non-guitar stuff (long
phrases and slurs placements)
-Mike


On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
> I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of LilyPond
> scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of examples of
> out-of-the-box engraving.
> The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores
> quite good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to finish
> an edition for example, without having to bother about engraving details
> too early.
>
> Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles. Therefore
> I would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you would share
> for that purpose.
> If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for a
> kind of gallery ,-)
>
> If it's 'publication quality' it should of course be as beautiful as
> possible.
> If it's out-of-the-box it should of course _be_ untweaked. It may well
> have deficiencies but should show the superior legibility of all LilyPond
> scores.
> I would also call it out-of-the-box if there is a general 'house' style
> sheet applied. Maybe I'll have a third group with such examples.
>
> TIA
> Urs
>
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Re: Score examples

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi,

2013/9/2 Urs Liska :
> Hi,
>
> I'm compiling a selection of examples to show LilyPond's output quality.
> I'm aiming at a collection of ca. 5 examples (1-page excerpts) of LilyPond
> scores tweaked to publication quality and a similar number of examples of
> out-of-the-box engraving.
> The latter is intended to show that one can _work_ with default scores quite
> good, that is one can play from them and one can use them to finish an
> edition for example, without having to bother about engraving details too
> early.

github.com/janek-warchol/warsztat-nutowy/tree/master/epifania/Eja%20Mater
I believe it's close to publication quality, a good example of
lilypond at work.  As a bonus, if you clone the repository and do 'git
log epifania/Eja\ Mater/' you'll see all beautifications and
corrections in separate commits.  It should be easy to see how the
score looked at various levels of beautification.

Ah, and there's also
github.com/janek-warchol/warsztat-nutowy/blob/master/epifania/Eja%20Mater%20klarnet.ly
.

> Another goal of this collection is to show a variety of styles. Therefore I
> would be happy if you would send me (privately) examples you would share for
> that purpose.
> If I should get way too many submissions I might think of using them for a
> kind of gallery ,-)

Recently I was asked to create some simple SATB scores and the
composer said that the LilyPond font looked too heavy, so i made some
modifications to the Feta font. You can see the result here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpsi9pzu1klpcq1/Eja-Mater.pdf (warning: the
link won't be up permanently).
I can share the changes to the Feta font if someone is interested.

best,
Janek

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